Costumes: Some words of advice ZOS

MornaBaine

Recently, you gave us these:





You certainly SHOULD have included THIS but did not:



All of the above are supposedly Reguard CULTURAL clothing. They are not billed as "dancing girl" clothing, which they clearly are. Rather, you'd have us believe this is the sort of thing Reguard women just wear all the time. Um...okayyyy.... suuuure.

Now, that might be okay BUT here's the concept art you put out for the upcoming MALE Redguard cultural clothing:


Now I actually think these are wonderful costumes. But here is my concern. If you are already starting the trend of giving skimpy costumes to female characters but NOT to male characters you are clearly sending a very sexist message. PLEASE DON'T. Am I saying don't give females skimpy costumes? NOPE. I love them. But I want SIMILAR costumes for male characters as well! And I want them in EXACTLY THE SAME NUMBERS FOR BOTH SEXES. And those awesome male concept art costumes? I want FEMALE versions. Yes, I know female characters can wear them, just as males can wear the dancing girl costumes. Not good enough. I want to see elegant Redguard cultural costumes that are as modest and covering as the male costumes you are planning but specifically made for women.

In future, please make sure you offer all styles of clothing, whether skimpy or modest, in equal proportion for both men and women. There are plenty of games out there where we can see women objectified and turned into cartoon sex objects. What you've done so far has managed to be tasteful. But you've dropped the ball by not offering something comparable designed for male characters. Don't be those guys ZOS. We expect better of you.

MornaBaine

And yes, I bought it!

Jumper45

Zena Warrior Princess yo.

MornaBaine

Jumper45 wrote: »

Zena Warrior Princess yo.

Would totally be down with some Xena goodness! LOL






You know...as long as we can ALSO have....

freespirit

MornaBaine wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

Zena Warrior Princess yo.

Sorry edited the quote to leave only the best bits........

*tries to stop drooling!

Abeille

I couldn't agree more.

And I'm sure there are a lot of guys here that would love to run around with a costume that let them show the tattoos on their chest.

AlienSlof

Yes, yes, absolutely YES! Skimpy for both, covered for both, please! Don't go down the Tera route.

I know men like sexy female attire to look at. We girls like sexy male attire to look at too.

MornaBaine

And I've not yet seen any concept art even for IMPERIAL costumes which is surprising since you've already released Imperial City DLC. Might I suggest...

Twilix01

Oh here we go again, calling ZOS sexist, people did the same thing when they changed the original redguard light armor and orc heavy armor to be more practical and not revealing.

MornaBaine

Twilix01 wrote: »

Oh here we go again, calling ZOS sexist, people did the same thing when they changed the original redguard light armor and orc heavy armor to be more practical and not revealing.

That was likewise a really bad call.

joker0137

Do they have to be sexy all the time?

MornaBaine

joker0137 wrote: »

Do they have to be sexy all the time?

Nope. My whole point is that we need BOTH modest and sexy options for BOTH men and women.

Pendrillion

Well for the Xena Option



Close if you ask me...

MornaBaine

Pendrillion wrote: »

Well for the Xena Option



Close if you ask me...

True for the top, not for the bottom. There are no Xena-esque "skirts" in game. Though I swear, if they add high heeled boots I will throat punch somebody. LOL

joker0137

MornaBaine wrote: »

joker0137 wrote: »

Do they have to be sexy all the time?

Nope. My whole point is that we need BOTH modest and sexy options for BOTH men and women.

Yeah, we need bad-ass costumes for ripping bad guys apart and looting dungeons and something smart and formal for the nice walks around the cities.
Also something formal might prevent the guards from eyeballing me me while a loot the city blind x

Islyn

MornaBaine wrote: »

And I've not yet seen any concept art even for IMPERIAL costumes which is surprising since you've already released Imperial City DLC. Might I suggest...

I would buy most of these.

joker0137

Don't know about that last guys outfit at the bottom there @Islyn
I wouldn't want to pay to much for that because the guy is half naked and its not a full outfit!

Jura23

Looking at some pics in this thread, I'm coming to conclusion that we don't really need more different male costumes. What we need is an option to toggle shirt off so everybody can be happy.

MornaBaine

Jura23 wrote: »

Looking at some pics in this thread, I'm coming to conclusion that we don't really need more different male costumes. What we need is an option to toggle shirt off so everybody can be happy.

LOL Well you CAN just take the Chest off and for just RP I suppose that would work. But cistumes designed with bare chests for men WOULD be nice!

TheShadowScout

MornaBaine wrote: »

You certainly SHOULD have included THIS but did not:

Likely kept it back for a february release. Three female options three male options... would have preferred a male and a female per m0onth, or better yet, all three in a discount pack, but eh.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Now I actually think these are wonderful costumes. But here is my concern. If you are already starting the trend of giving skimpy costumes to female characters but NOT to male characters you are clearly sending a very sexist message. PLEASE DON'T. Am I saying don't give females skimpy costumes? NOPE. I love them. But I want SIMILAR costumes for male characters as well! And I want them in EXACTLY THE SAME NUMBERS FOR BOTH SEXES. And those awesome male concept art costumes? I want FEMALE versions. Yes, I know female characters can wear them, just as males can wear the dancing girl costumes. Not good enough. I want to see elegant Redguard cultural costumes that are as modest and covering as the male costumes you are planning but specifically made for women.

In future, please make sure you offer all styles of clothing, whether skimpy or modest, in equal proportion for both men and women. There are plenty of games out there where we can see women objectified and turned into cartoon sex objects. What you've done so far has managed to be tasteful. But you've dropped the ball by not offering something comparable designed for male characters. Don't be those guys ZOS. We expect better of you.

I have to agree with all of that!

While I dislike people being allowed to dash into battle in dancing girl costumes (wish there were non-combat costumes that unequipped when you go to do battle and wish all those were these), I do enjoy having a wide range of costume options for roleplay support. And that means for both genders, in several different versions. Now, I do enjoy having non-gender-locked costumes... but there really is a certain lack of choice here. The sand-kissed outfit is neat on girls, the dancers silks are interesting as well... but... they could just as easily be male versions of those styles, with a vest instead of top, or a bare chest... same for the more modest male costumes, there easily could be well done female costumes of matching style... I would want that! I would love it is all these gave two versions, female and male, and let people wear as they choose. (since for some roleplaying backgrounds, it opens up a whole new set of options. One of my female characters enjoys wearing male costumes, in a "breeches role" kind of thing, and looks pretty snazzy in them!)

MornaBaine wrote: »

Would totally be down with some Xena goodness! LOL

So would I! The classic Xena I would even be able to see as armor without wincing... the samurai-stri... uhm... women of loose morals and looser clothing... not so much. (again I wish for non-combat costumes, if it was for out of combat only, I would not aorry about any costume look... though I suppose I could always salve my strained immersion with an "illusion disguise" explenation...)

But what I would REALLY like to see in terms of "Xena" is "short skirt / kilt" options for leg armor. In nord style it would be great for "scotsmen" visuals, in imperial style for "greco-roman" visuals.

MornaBaine wrote: »

You know...as long as we can ALSO have....

Agreement, with the same "non-combat costume" quib.
Yes, I'd love to have "steppe barbarian" and "celtic/viking berserker" visuals, though those historically proved to be... less then conductive to survival in combat when not protected by the power of script, thus I'd prefer them outside of combat.

MornaBaine wrote: »

And I've not yet seen any concept art even for IMPERIAL costumes which is surprising since you've already released Imperial City DLC. Might I suggest...

Wonderful comstume ideas - both the dresses, and the toga, and even the gladiator style. I'd throw in some slave tunics and a bit more varietee...
For the DB DLC perhaps since that is supposedly set somewhere between colovian highlands and gold coast? Or any time, really.

Jura23 wrote: »

Looking at some pics in this thread, I'm coming to conclusion that we don't really need more different male costumes. What we need is an option to toggle shirt off so everybody can be happy.

That... would actually make some sense... if it wasn't also usable with armor. If someone has the protection, I want to see their breasplate and not their abs. But if they were for example to release some costumes in a two version back, one with bra and one with bare chest visuals... hmmm...

All in all, I am starting to think that for -some- costumes, different visuals depending on gender might not be such a bad thing... (as long as noone messes with my Leska dressing in the groom suit when she wants to pass for a gentleman! )

Lil_Willie

From ZOS:

#NOETA.

Father_X_Zombie

MornaBaine wrote: »

And I've not yet seen any concept art even for IMPERIAL costumes which is surprising since you've already released Imperial City DLC. Might I suggest...

Im all for more Imperial stuff! The officer pack is ok. Im not so sure about the Imperial battlemage pack

nimander99

Actually OP you should already be fully aware that female AND male costumes work well on female toons but the same cannot be said about female costumes on male toons... it looks downright redonkulous.

Save the PC threads for MSN forums please.

nimander99

What we actually need (and what I was hoping this thread was about) is a costume sorting mechanic in our collection database. I have collected almost every costume, skin, and poly available thus far and my collections are getting downright cluttered.

Gidorick

I would love some shirtless costumes for male characters... but how could they do that since costumes could be worn by men or women. I mean... I personally wouldn't mind it... but you must think of the children.

MornaBaine

Gidorick wrote: »

I would love some shirtless costumes for male characters... but how could they do that since costumes could be worn by men or women. I mean... I personally wouldn't mind it... but you must think of the children.

The ones that don't exist in Tamriel and only Hermanus Mora knows why? Or the actual ones who aren't supposed to be playing this game anyway?

Sadly, I'm pretty sure what would happen on a "shirtless" costume on females would be that the poor girl would be left standing there in her ridiculous cheap Target bra. Whoever designed the "underwear" for this game needs to be throat punched. Repeatedly.

TheShadowScout

Gidorick wrote: »

I would love some shirtless costumes for male characters... but how could they do that since costumes could be worn by men or women. I mean... I personally wouldn't mind it... but you must think of the children.

Forget about the "children", the game is rated "M" now, anyone underage who wanders into ESO is not ZOS fault but has only their parents to blame for not paying attention. I am a little tired of some people being actually serious about such "you cannot have a steak because a baby can't chew it" arguments. (not tired of people who make fun of them though... )

MornaBaine wrote: »

Sadly, I'm pretty sure what would happen on a "shirtless" costume on females would be that the poor girl would be left standing there in her ridiculous cheap Target bra. Whoever designed the "underwear" for this game needs to be throat punched. Repeatedly.

Yes! Yes, they do! Over and over again!

There are so many better options, but what did we get? Underwear that looks like it was bought in the late 20th century... where are my medieval-style linen loincloths, tarzan-style leopard-skin thongs, fundoshi-style breechcloths, et cetera!

Of course... traditionally a lot of medieval cultures has no bras for women... though chest bindings were common in ancient rome as I recall (I seem to remember roman culture viewed oversized breasts as "uncivilized", "barbaric" and "comical". They were the same about large male parts...).

But I would soo love to see a update on the ESO underwear situation... and then, maybe also more in-game reasons to take off our armor. I always wanted armor give people a swimming debuff, from "slower" in robes to "sink like a stone" in full plate... and then some quests where you -have- to swim a good deal... and agonize about choices... armored and slow as a turtle or fast swimming and painful in the underwear... I'd love that!

Jura23

nimander99 wrote: »

Actually OP you should already be fully aware that female AND male costumes work well on female toons but the same cannot be said about female costumes on male toons... it looks downright redonkulous.

Save the PC threads for MSN forums please.

I met some guy who made Noble Dress work perfectly on male character. He looked like one of those elves from Lord of the rings. Even his name was based on it.

Gidorick

lol @TheShadowScout , I was being sarcastic about the children... but I think you knew that. I wouldn't be opposed to nudity in ESO... but I get why we shouldn't have it.

As for the target underwear @MornaBaine . ZOS is leaving a terrible amount of money on the table by not selling different styles of underclothes.

nimander99

Gidorick wrote: »

I would love some shirtless costumes for male characters... but how could they do that since costumes could be worn by men or women. I mean... I personally wouldn't mind it... but you must think of the children.

I know others have already said this but I'll add my voice (via text) that this game is rated M as I know you know, might as well make use of it... naked Nords ftw!

Edit: I know you were being tongue in cheek about the children thing

TheShadowScout

Jura23 wrote: »

I met some guy who made Noble Dress work perfectly on male character. He looked like one of those elves from Lord of the rings. Even his name was based on it.

I have a character who might be able to pull it off as well. In any case, I wholly approve of characters who seriously manage to make a outfit look good across gender barriers!

Gidorick wrote: »

I was being sarcastic about the children... but I think you knew that. I wouldn't be opposed to nudity in ESO... but I get why we shouldn't have it.

Sure I knew I was just preempting those who -actually- mean it when they go that way for their "ZOMG, there are bared female chest areas on display, quick, call the censors!" comments...
(and I was tempted to reply in my own brand of sarcasm, but upon reading through what I had typed, I decided to self-censor. Some jokes are outside what most people consider "good taste". Sadly, those are the ones I tend to enjoy most...)

Gidorick wrote: »

As for the target underwear @MornaBaine . ZOS is leaving a terrible amount of money on the table by not selling different styles of underclothes.

Indeed! If they gave me an option to buy different underwear visuals in the crown store... I'd have to have a different one for each of my characters! A primitive animal-skin loincloth for my bosmer, some dainty silk and lace unmentionables for my altmer, a crude bearskin thong for my nord, something in black for my goth dunmer boy... so many possibilties! Even if noone ever saw them I'd have to have them matching the characters style!