This is what holds me back from doing VMA

Cathexis

I get that people want the content to be challenging.
I agree with that. It should be challenging.

The issue with it I have is that I am currently built for pvp, and that it requires a complete regear and respec to complete VMA.

Nevermind the fact that this is a huge expense and requires a huge time investment for gold and matts, to keep up with the respec time and cost and the time investment of running VMA is extremely tedious.

I just can't see the incentive.

Artjuh90

Cathexis wrote: »

I get that people want the content to be challenging.
I agree with that. It should be challenging.

The issue with it I have is that I am currently built for pvp, and that it requires a complete regear and respec to complete VMA.

Nevermind the fact that this is a huge expense and requires a huge time investment for gold and matts, to keep up with the respec time and cost and the time investment of running VMA is extremely tedious.

I just can't see the incentive.

and the PvE community don't need to do this to grind for the alliance ranks?

dday3six

Most players have to use a completely different set up for Maelstrom, including gears, morphs, cp, and skills. You center your build around the content you're running. That means making changes often when seeking to be most effective.

PVE and PVP for better or worse are intertwined in ESO. The game is about both, and choosing to focus on only one aspect is also choosing to accept the consquences of your choice.

revonine

What holds me back is the lack of checkpoints.

SanTii.92

I'd like to know what are you using that makes you feel you need to respec all your gear.

pronkg

Cathexis wrote: »

I get that people want the content to be challenging.
I agree with that. It should be challenging.

The issue with it I have is that I am currently built for pvp, and that it requires a complete regear and respec to complete VMA.

Nevermind the fact that this is a huge expense and requires a huge time investment for gold and matts, to keep up with the respec time and cost and the time investment of running VMA is extremely tedious.

I just can't see the incentive.

I figure you are built for pvp cause you love pvp more than Pve?

you do realize some people have it other way around right? And pvp gives you nothing of value... Yet (monster gear incoming)

Anyway I agree on the repair costs in there that is if you can't run it proper, but gear is really your own problem. Do you expect people with Pve gear and specs to get an easy time in cyrodil?

It all depends on what maelstrom weapons are worth to you. It costed me probably some 20 or 30k gold to practice, but now I only make profit due to nearly no repair costs and high XP, not to mention all the maelstrom weapons. And the legendaries weekly.

Still they only give a minor boost to your power you certainly don't need them for anything. Just pray for no repair costs in there or put some gold in it

Troneon

The biggest issue is that it's not challenging...

It's designed around cheap, buggy and laggy one shot mechanics and lazy designing, not an actual challenge to over come. It's the lazy version of hard content, throw in one shots and RNG/luck.

One shot mechanics to artificially create a sense of difficulty rather than actually give the players something challenging.

The latest dungeons and VetMSA I am sure were specifically designed around pushing players to purchase repair kits for "convenience" lol.

code65536

PvE players use different gear and setups for Maelstrom. And it's not just PvE tanks and healers speccing for more damage, but PvE DPS speccing for more sustain and survivability. Everyone has to adapt. Granted, some more than others, but it's not uncommon for characters to carry around multiple gear sets for different situations.

CaptainObvious

Doctor, it hurts when I do this.

Then don't do that.

Tryxus

To me, the reasons I don't attempt vMSA are:

- no save points
- terrible RNG

ZOS needs to stop making everything RNG-based and then applying bandaids when ppl complain, and flesh out their content with more "basic" features

Seewul

Like AJ said it a chore to play, too often im afraid such a shame when they just could have trusted themself
that their game is fun to play, soo much unnesessary grind..

pronkg

Tryxus wrote: »

To me, the reasons I don't attempt vMSA are:

- no save points
- terrible RNG

ZOS needs to stop making everything RNG-based and then applying bandaids when ppl complain, and flesh out their content with more "basic" features

The RNG is really a small part and easily avoidable.

Most guys I know including me who run it regularly don't die more than 10 times and mostly it's cause we made a mistake not cause of "terrible" Rng

Usara

I never went in vMSA.

I am happy for the challenge. I hate that the endgame content of a MMO is a solo dungeon.

If I want challenging solo content, I have plenty of solo games. Let my MMO be a multiplayer game ^_^

Kildayen

I can't tell you how much gold I spend every day from respecs. I'm a magicka sorc and my normal thing is dps. If I want to switch to heals I have to spend 3k gold to move my champion points and then whatever gold it costs to reset my morphs. Time to dps again? There goes another 3k gold plus morphs. Oh, time for sorc tanking? There goes another 3k gold and morphs. Back to dps... 3k gold and morphs. Oh, I want to play stamina sorc now. Guess what? 15k + gold and champion points.

One of my favorite things from games I played in the past was the ability to change roles with the click of a button. I really wish ZOS would put something like that in the game. Rift was a good example of what I'm talking about.

aLi3nZ

Can any sourcer recommend me what gear to try out for vMA? Currently just running a pvp/dps build. This thread gave me an idea that I should try a different set.

pronkg

aLi3nZ wrote: »

Can any sourcer recommend me what gear to try out for vMA? Currently just running a pvp/dps build. This thread gave me an idea that I should try a different set.

5x julianos
3x willpower arcane
2x torugs pact
1x kena


Focus your champion points on elemental damage.

Something like that should do just fine

zyk

What bothers me about vMA is the number of times I'll need to grind it to get the weapons I desire. Grinding a single player instance while playing an MMO seems kind of insane to me. No thanks.

WTB: vMA gold Alliance War rewards.

pronkg

zyk wrote: »

What bothers me about vMA is the number of times I'll need to grind it to get the weapons I desire. Grinding a single player instance while playing an MMO seems kind of insane to me. No thanks.

WTB: vMA gold Alliance War rewards.

wouldnt you rather get a unique pvp item for your pvp skills instead of a Pve item?

The sense of achieving something kinda gets lost if people can get the items everywhere they want. That's why I'm also for BoP especially on these unique items.

as for the grind, I agree. At the least they should eliminate the set items from the last chest

Sausage

Thats my thing too. I banged my head against it like 2 hour, I didnt even complete the first Arena and then realized that my gear/build isnt nothing what Zen wants it to be, or could be because Im Vamp. I dont personally think optimal builds/gears are good direction for this game to go, when optimality takes over, fun is toasted. I'd probably need somekind of Heavy Armor Vigor char to make it work, what I might do one day, but currently if I want to play optimal game, I play Civ, its thousand time better game that this ever will be.

Cathexis

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

I get that people want the content to be challenging.
I agree with that. It should be challenging.

The issue with it I have is that I am currently built for pvp, and that it requires a complete regear and respec to complete VMA.

Nevermind the fact that this is a huge expense and requires a huge time investment for gold and matts, to keep up with the respec time and cost and the time investment of running VMA is extremely tedious.

I just can't see the incentive.

and the PvE community don't need to do this to grind for the alliance ranks?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Cathexis

dday3six wrote: »

Most players have to use a completely different set up for Maelstrom, including gears, morphs, cp, and skills. You center your build around the content you're running. That means making changes often when seeking to be most effective.

PVE and PVP for better or worse are intertwined in ESO. The game is about both, and choosing to focus on only one aspect is also choosing to accept the consquences of your choice.

That's a really limited perspective and it is the source of what creates walls between content.

Steel_Brightblade

Could be worse, I hate pvp yet for my stamina sorc, to have a hope he needs vigour, that's would be a massive brain dead time sink to me. In stead I've just decided not to bother with that character.

Alucardo

Artjuh90 wrote: »

and the PvE community don't need to do this to grind for the alliance ranks?

Not really. They just run around in zergs spamming wall of elements and thinking dragon blood is still a viable heal. Not to mention they don't have to spend gold repairing their armour in PVP

zyk

pronkg wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

What bothers me about vMA is the number of times I'll need to grind it to get the weapons I desire. Grinding a single player instance while playing an MMO seems kind of insane to me. No thanks.

WTB: vMA gold Alliance War rewards.

wouldnt you rather get a unique pvp item for your pvp skills instead of a Pve item?

The sense of achieving something kinda gets lost if people can get the items everywhere they want. That's why I'm also for BoP especially on these unique items.

as for the grind, I agree. At the least they should eliminate the set items from the last chest

I would be pleased if there were both PVE and PVP options for all item sets. Or an option to trade them. ESO PVP and PVE are extremely different to me. IMO, many players who enjoy PVP do not enjoy PVE and vice versa. That should not be a competitive disadvantage. At least not to the degree it currently is.

The end of campaign Alliance War gold reward loot table included Master weapons and trial sets up to ESO 2.1. If they were fair EOC rewards then, I do not see why Maelstrom weapons are not now. Master weapons were the only EOC rewards I really looked forward to.

pronkg

zyk wrote: »

pronkg wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

What bothers me about vMA is the number of times I'll need to grind it to get the weapons I desire. Grinding a single player instance while playing an MMO seems kind of insane to me. No thanks.

WTB: vMA gold Alliance War rewards.

wouldnt you rather get a unique pvp item for your pvp skills instead of a Pve item?

The sense of achieving something kinda gets lost if people can get the items everywhere they want. That's why I'm also for BoP especially on these unique items.

as for the grind, I agree. At the least they should eliminate the set items from the last chest

I would be pleased if there were both PVE and PVP options for all item sets. Or an option to trade them. ESO PVP and PVE are extremely different to me. IMO, many players who enjoy PVP do not enjoy PVE and vice versa. That should not be a competitive disadvantage. At least not to the degree it currently is.

The end of campaign Alliance War gold reward loot table included Master weapons and trial sets up to ESO 2.1. If they were fair EOC rewards then, I do not see why Maelstrom weapons are not now. Master weapons were the only EOC rewards I really looked forward to.

I have to disagree, I do understand the rewards for EOC are bad, but I'd like the fact that people who pvp would get a reward for pvp and people who Pve would get a reward for Pve. I like to see people who have achieved something and be proud of it even if these are things I can't achieve.

I want to be able to say Omg he has the Ebonheart pact pvp sword reward! :O. I don't want to say OmG he has a maelstrom weapon, did some friend gave it to you? Did you buy it? Or did you get it for totally non VMA related pvp? Or did you actually complete the arena?

I didn't have the time to do VDSa for master weapons so I accepted that and moved on. I'd rather see you having a special pvp reward weapon instead of a Pve weapon you didn't earn by completing the Pve content for that.

Not trying to be disrespectful, but what you're asking is basically to just put everything in the crownstore and let it be over with. That would be the easiest option.

I would only agree to your point only
if the VMA weapons were OP, but they really aren't. And even if they were I'd rather see a pvp counterpart.

Heindrich

I don't see what ur complaint is. You want vMA to be so easy that you don't even need to respec from a PvP build? Seriously?

If you don't invest, don't expect to profit. It's simple.

As for incentive... Maelstorm weapons

pronkg

Remove yourself from the mundus!

Shogunami

Heindrich wrote: »

I don't see what ur complaint is. You want vMA to be so easy that you don't even need to respec from a PvP build? Seriously?

If you don't invest, don't expect to profit. It's simple.

As for incentive... Maelstorm weapons

There should still be a dual-spec system.

This isn't just applicable to Maelstrom Arena, this goes for certain veteran dungeons as well. In some dungeons for example you have to be able to do range damage even if you're melee, and you have to waste skill points to use a weapon you won't use again for ?? days.

I tried to point out to group members of several groups that this is a design flaw, but I was consistently bashed for this so I guess you HAVE TO BE ABLE TO do range damage even if you're a melee DD. How do you do this if you have no skill points? Do you travel back to a city, respecc and then port in again or do you simply avoid doing gold pledge whenever that dungeon is up because it's a guratanteed loss of 3000 gold every time?

Ridiculous.

Also, Maelstrom weapons suck. At least for my NB, I have no reason whatsoever to run vMA

zyk

pronkg wrote: »

Not trying to be disrespectful, but what you're asking is basically to just put everything in the crownstore and let it be over with. That would be the easiest option.

That is not what I am suggesting at all. Don't put stupid words in my mouth. Of course that's disrespectful.

My points were clear and still stand. Neither dedicated PVE or PVP players should be at a significant competitive disadvantage. When you add up all of the differences, they are significant. It is reasonable to enjoy one and dislike the other as PVP and PVE gameplay are very different.

Grinding instances actually makes me want to vomit. It's like watching the same tv show over and over again. If you enjoy it, super. But don't make fans of the open world gameplay of Cyrodiil do it to remain competitive in PVP. I felt the same for dedicated PVE players who had to endure PVP to remain competitive during 2.1.

Again, Maelstrom weapons are the second iteration of the Master weapons and MA is the second iteration of the PVE arena concept. If Master weapons were fit PVP rewards previously, so too should Maelstrom weapons now.

Shogunami

dday3six wrote: »

Most players have to use a completely different set up for Maelstrom, including gears, morphs, cp, and skills. You center your build around the content you're running. That means making changes often when seeking to be most effective.

PVE and PVP for better or worse are intertwined in ESO. The game is about both, and choosing to focus on only one aspect is also choosing to accept the consquences of your choice.

Yes, this is true, most players do. And it's terrible. It's a stab in the face/back/*** of every ESO player who believed the talk about "play the way you want".
I'm not saying I should be able to run in and tank as a light armor dual-wielding sorcerer, of course not (unless I could find a way to, that'd be awesome), but one should not have to follow builds either.
If I have to run FOTM builds and have identical gear and skills/rotation as everyone else just to be able to do certain content I'll just go play WoW - because WoW does it way, way better than ESO does - because there's only one set you can wear at a time that is good for your class and the game focuses on other things.


Sure, PvE focus and PvP focus are different and I can accept that you have to adapt to either or both when playing either or. But not to the extent that you have identical gear, champion points, skills and rotation. It's stupid and it should be a thing of the past and I do hope ZOS finds a way around this. Because it's stupid.

Yes, it is stupid.
Stupid.

I'll say it as many times as I have to.
Stupid, and proof of poor design choices - going half-heartedly in one direction only to change and go half-heartedly in another.

Heindrich

Here's an idea...

Use one character for vMA and other PvE stuff, use another for PvP.

Or just make a flexible build good for both with only gear change. I don't bother changing CP between PvE and PvP, but ofc I have pure dps gear for PvE and sustained dps gear for PvP.