Nightblade's skill Marked Target.

GreenSoup2HoT

Mark Target is a great skill. However there is one thing that really bother's me with this skill that ruin's the whole "stealth" mentality. The person who you mark, know's you marked them before you strike (in pvp, im sure npc's don't care )

I just want to hear your opinion's on this ability.

Personally i think "Piercing Mark" ( a morph of marked target ) should be nerfed so that you can only see invisible target's for a shorter period of time. Much like how detect potion's were nerfed from a full 45 second's of detection to 12 second's or so.

I also believe the morph of marked target "Reaper's Mark" has to short of a duration for the damage buff to warrent usage over "Piercing Mark". In PvE yes this morph is great but it would be great also if both morph's were more viable in pvp.


There are a couple thing's about this ability that don't sit well with me and i'd like to hear your opinion's.

Voxicity

and as always.. I like Muffin's

Blueberry please

AFrostWolf

I hate Piercing Mark with a passion.

NB's already have incredible Burst/Openers. Having it be undetectable will make those Openers OP. The Detection pot nerf was also a horrible idea and IMHO detect pots should be buffed.

Egonieser

and as always.. I like Muffin's

I like turtles.

LoreRiley

and as always.. I like Muffin's

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Mark Target is a great skill. However there is one thing that really bother's me with this skill that ruin's the whole "stealth" mentality. The person who you mark, know's you marked them before you strike (in pvp, im sure npc's don't care )

I just want to hear your opinion's on this ability.

Personally i think "Piercing Mark" ( a morph of marked target ) should be nerfed so that you can only see invisible target's for a shorter period of time. Much like how detect potion's were nerfed from a full 45 second's of detection to 12 second's or so.

I also believe the morph of marked target "Reaper's Mark" has to short of a duration for the damage buff to warrent usage over "Piercing Mark". In PvE yes this morph is great but it would be great also if both morph's were more viable in pvp.


There are a couple thing's about this ability that don't sit well with me and i'd like to hear your opinion's.

What's the point of making a poll if you are just gonna add a dumb option which everyone will pick rendering the poll useless.

GreenSoup2HoT

AFrostWolf wrote: »

NB's already have incredible Burst/Openers. Having it be undetectable will make those Openers OP. The Detection pot nerf was also a horrible idea and IMHO detect pots should be buffed.

The only problem with this, nightblade's already have great burst without this ability. However when you try to utilize this class ability for what it is, it fall's short because your enemy can immediately defend himself and applie buff's/heal's etc.

I'm just trying to spark discussion about it. It's still pretty easy to work around this.

GreenSoup2HoT

@LoreRiley

Zos know's which comment's are worth reading this way. It's to make sure the people who pick the "dumb option" do not pollute the poll by picking something else if there was not an option like this. You always need a "troll" option, this ensure's the poll is not infected with random result's.

And common, everyone like's Muffin's.

LoreRiley

and as always.. I like Muffin's

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@LoreRiley

Zos know's which comment's are worth reading this way. It's to make sure the people who pick the "dumb option" do not pollute the poll by picking something else if there was not an option like this.

"Results" is a better option as it will have a meaning. Using options like you have will make people who know what to pick or that would actually have a say in it go after the silly one like myself.

RoyJade

Reaper's Mark should have an increased duration for the major berserk buff.

I agree with AFrostWolf, a NB already have a huge burst, no need to buff this burst.
Mark target is fine in my opinion, a great debuff but you need to think twice before using it. Useful against an already engaged enemy, but also to bring fear on a player's heart without attacking it (useful for slowing it down).

Piercing mark don't need a debuff, it need a buff : the invisibility debuff shouldn't be purged. This skill have only one purpose, but it nearly completely ruined by purge. And of course, magicka NB (the one who benefit the most from cloak) can use purge very easily.
Reaper's mark, on the other hand, give to the NB a huge heal and a good buff, but this buff is too short IMO. It should be better with a 10 second buff, or a tri-stat regen buff, or something like this.

AFrostWolf

I hate Piercing Mark with a passion.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

AFrostWolf wrote: »

NB's already have incredible Burst/Openers. Having it be undetectable will make those Openers OP. The Detection pot nerf was also a horrible idea and IMHO detect pots should be buffed.

The only problem with this, nightblade's already have great burst without this ability. However when you try to utilize this class ability for what it is, it fall's short because your enemy can immediately defend himself and applie buff's/heal's etc.

I'm just trying to spark discussion about it. It's still pretty easy to work around this.

Well that's just it. If you take the notification that I've been marked away, I can't sit there and buff myself to deal with the incoming attacks. The skill already penetrates 75% (I think, It's been a bit since I've played my NB) Making the openers hit harder than if the skill wasn't used at all.

Molag_Crow

I hate Piercing Mark with a passion.

I definitely wouldn't mind if Mark got nerfed in someway because it absolutely destroys the stealth mentality, as a non-Nightblade, in PvP.

Even purifying ritual will cleanse it for a few seconds before it re-applies again, but that's not bad, it's just the duration of the mark lasts way too long in my opinion.

GreenSoup2HoT

LoreRiley wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@LoreRiley

Zos know's which comment's are worth reading this way. It's to make sure the people who pick the "dumb option" do not pollute the poll by picking something else if there was not an option like this.

"Results" is a better option as it will have a meaning. Using options like you have will make people who know what to pick or that would actually have a say in it go after the silly one like myself.

It's not the end of the world when someone say's they like muffin's. One thing that's important to note, the more people pick the silly option, the more this thread with get attention in the end. This increases how many voter's there will be. I don't think the result's will be impacted by having this option.

RoyJade

Reaper's Mark should have an increased duration for the major berserk buff.

AFrostWolf wrote: »

The skill already penetrates 75%

Now it's just major breach (and the magicka equivalent), the same debuff surprise attack give. it won't help them to burst a lot, but even a little more burst opening is too much.

GreenSoup2HoT

RoyJade wrote: »

AFrostWolf wrote: »

The skill already penetrates 75%

Now it's just major breach (and the magicka equivalent), the same debuff surprise attack give. it won't help them to burst a lot, but even a little more burst opening is too much.

Especially when player's already use Surprise Attack. The physical de-buff does not stack.

This would just be a nice way to hit magicka user's. However if you mark a sorc they start shield stacking immediately and you might as well go for someone else. That's one benefit of letting mark only be seen once in combat.

This change i think could only occur once flawless dawnbreaker / relentless focus / rally ...only effect base weapon damage. Atm, when people stack these skills... weapon damage get's out of control. Something i don't think the dev's care about.

Solariken

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

AFrostWolf wrote: »

NB's already have incredible Burst/Openers. Having it be undetectable will make those Openers OP. The Detection pot nerf was also a horrible idea and IMHO detect pots should be buffed.

The only problem with this, nightblade's already have great burst without this ability. However when you try to utilize this class ability for what it is, it fall's short because your enemy can immediately defend himself and applie buff's/heal's etc.

I'm just trying to spark discussion about it. It's still pretty easy to work around this.

The anti-stealth mechanic is the only thing I ever slot it for, and still very rarely. Let's be real here, you don't need it for anything else. Nightblades are so OP right now - if you succeed with your opening rotation your chance of losing the fight is incredibly small.

GreenSoup2HoT

@Solariken

I agree. Nightblade's do have very strong opener's.

However i do think Nightblade Weapon damage buff's/passive's are a little out of control. If you stack damage well enough, you can get over 400 weapon damage from slotting flawless dawnbreaker. A little over kill.

I think the change i propose for mark target could only be implemented if weapon damage was handled first. Balance is kinda out the window right now anyway.

Molag_Crow

I hate Piercing Mark with a passion.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Solariken

I agree. Nightblade's do have very strong opener's.

However i do think Nightblade Weapon damage buff's/passive's are a little out of control. If you stack damage well enough, you can get over 400 weapon damage from slotting flawless dawnbreaker. A little over kill.

I think the change i propose for mark target could only be implemented if weapon damage was handled first. Balance is kinda out the window right now anyway.

True. I'm glad someone's admitting it on these forums.

I know a Nightblade is supposed to be an assassin/rogue, but I personally think their sustained damage in PvP is just over the top, too. They should rely on sneak attacks/cloak (hopefully cloak gets a slight nerf too) to pull off their crazy damage, because right now, it's just Spambush and Surprise Attack for easy kills.

GreenSoup2HoT

@CrowsDescend

I hear you. However i don't think nerfing a class ability that make's a class unique should be nerf'ed when the number's are the problem.

This is why i've suggested this mark target change. If i could mark someone without them knowing... i could take every advantage possible before i strike. Nightblade's should be the ganker's, it's something people will always complain about but it's the truth.

One of the reason's i use different set's on my own nightblade is because i hate these weapon damage build's. I still do very well with my nightblade even though i run 5 old v14 shadow-walker and 5 piece sentry ( the sentry set only work's well with radiant mage light). I build for that one moment where i catch you alone and take you out. I even spec into befoul for healing reduction.

Beside's that, your right... no one talk's about how weapon damage is being stacked and being abused. It's omg fear, omg cloak, omg sorc shields.

When it reality it's the way weapon damage buff's/passive's scale and how shield's scale off max magicka + damage.
-Why should a Sorc be able to be a glass cannon but still be tanky as all hell?
-Why can a nightblade have so much freaking damage with all this utility (fear/cloak).

If these thing's were addressed, class ability's would stop getting the nerf hammer when it's been damage all along.

If only Zos could of addressed damage instead of changing battle spirit befor IC. Blanket Nerf's do nothing and solve nothing. We need a balance team for pvp...

Alucardo

Mark Target is fine the way it is. I have had no problem's with it.

I hate Nightblades, so if Piercing Mark could have an extended duration and this skill be available in the Fighter's Guild tree I'd be really happy.

revonine

I only ever really need to use Mark against tankier opponents, even then I get around the whole "they know I'm coming" thing by just applying mark if they survive my burst if I feel it's necessary or if it's another NB.

It's hilarious when I encounter NB's trolling with Mark by just constantly applying it to people while sitting there in stealth. I mean, you gonna attack or not? You trying to psyche me out or something?

GreenSoup2HoT

revonine wrote: »

It's hilarious when I encounter NB's trolling with Mark by just constantly applying it to people while sitting there in stealth. I mean, you gonna attack or not? You trying to psyche me out or something?

I totally forgot about this. This is one reason why i would also want this change to mark target. *** like this is annoying as hell. If no one could see the mark until the one who mark engaged, no one would ever stop and waste time looking for that nightblade.

CP5

Mark Target is fine the way it is. I have had no problem's with it.

I say its fine as is. I often troll nb's with mark first to remove their use of cloak, but also to put people on edge. They will only keep their guard up for so long. Also, if you want the major armor and spell resist debuffs then you have to think about when using it, unless you think its perfectly fine to have such a strong debuff but no feedback for when its applied.

GreenSoup2HoT

@CP5

Instead of no feedback maybe only let the player marked be aware of it. Instead of being a beacon showcasing they have been marked by a enemy nightblade to everyone around.

This de-buff wouldn't be that big of an issue if damage wasn't at an all time high. I've said this in a previous comment, weapon damage is to easy to stack. If all weapon damage buff's/passive's scaled off base weapon damage this wouldn't be that big of deal. In the current state of the game, it would be to much that's true.

RAGUNAnoOne

AFrostWolf wrote: »

NB's already have incredible Burst/Openers. Having it be undetectable will make those Openers OP. The Detection pot nerf was also a horrible idea and IMHO detect pots should be buffed.

This also there should be one anti stealth move like this for non NBs flare is a joke compared to caltrops...

revonine

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@CP5

Instead of no feedback maybe only let the player marked be aware of it. Instead of being a beacon showcasing they have been marked by a enemy nightblade to everyone around.

well that would ease the whole "the best counter to cloak is another NB" thing. Currently there may as well be a neon sign over me if I get marked and it's impossible to cloak away especially if outnumbered as the NB who marked you will keep dropping your cloak. What you purposed would at least give you a shot at slipping away if your fast enough.

GreenSoup2HoT

@revonine

That would only help a little bit though. The chance's of you not already drawing attention once your cloak is dropped is pretty thin.

Only the marked player knowing he's been marked is nice because then it's only that player who has the knowledge of a potential gank. Kinda suck's when you mark someone near 5 people and everyone else just start's looking for you.

This is why i think Mark shouldn't even be noticed until you start combat. Yes it would be strong but it would be more practical and useful. A nightblade should be very very strong coming out of stealth and fall off if unsuccessful.

Damage need's to be balanced first before this change could happen of course. I can't stress this enough.

DannyLV702

and as always.. I like Muffin's

I like being able to see that I'm marked. It lets me know there's a NB asking for a spanking nearby. It would be cool, however, if only the marked person could see himself marked. Whenever someone is marked, everyone in the area drops what they're doing and begging hunting for the NB, which it doesn't bother me because I'm a sorc, but it'd be fair I guess.

olsborg

Should only work for the caster, everyone else who hasnt marked the target shouldnt see him..imo.

CP5

Mark Target is fine the way it is. I have had no problem's with it.

For the record mark used to only show for the caster and the one it hit. I like the change 1.) so my allies know why i'm dancing around blocking and 2.) because unlike a potion it is a directed skill. Honestly with how overpopulated the NB class is, and how powerful the debuff is both in the current meta and beyond given the strength of both major debuffs being on it, I don't like the idea of removing the visual any more than it is now. And to the praise "it would help nb's being the counter for nb's" well now nb's are even less of a counter since other classes can't be helped out so more people would need to have the skill to counter.

Sugram22

when it comes to damage the - to resistance is not helping, i look enemy HP bar & damage to enemy seems same with & with out the debuff, its only useful in PVP when u want to prevent other NB to go to stealth, well they can go to stealth, but u know what i mean, that u still see them

Nikkor

AFrostWolf wrote: »

NB's already have incredible Burst/Openers. Having it be undetectable will make those Openers OP. The Detection pot nerf was also a horrible idea and IMHO detect pots should be buffed.

I think that detect pots lasted too long before but not long enough now.

somewhere in-between seems ideal but even closer to the short end.

not 47 not 15 maybe 20-22