Are there any viable Stam DK Skoria builds currently out there?

Stelo

I've been experimenting with using a bunch of DoTs along with the Skoria set in PvP, but I can't seem to make it work. Anyone have suggestions or is a Magicka DK better off using Skoria instead?

lynog85

nope, just dont bother bro

OmniDevil

Skoria was broken with the release of Imperial City. It actually provides an overall DPS loss and doesn't have the same effect it used to in PvP. Several players have tested it extensively and found that it's overall proc chance is so incredibly low, you may as well not have the 2pc bonus.

Xsorus

It use to be viable with Twin Sisters before the Block Nerf and the nerfing of the actual Set itself

Stelo

OmniDevil wrote: »

Skoria was broken with the release of Imperial City. It actually provides an overall DPS loss and doesn't have the same effect it used to in PvP. Several players have tested it extensively and found that it's overall proc chance is so incredibly low, you may as well not have the 2pc bonus.

Ahhh, I figured as much Thing is, I don't wanna go Engine Guardian since it's what everyone uses and I'd like to challenge myself. Guess I'll be sticking to 1 Bloodspawn, 1 Kena for now. Thanks!

M_TeK_9

I disagree. The set is amazing for a stam dk dark elf tank. It provides DPS by the tank that you normally would never get.

Things that proc skoria as a dk tank;

Inner fire
Volatile armor
Caltrops
Extended chain
Unstable flame
Choking talons
Shooting star
Ash cloud and morphs
Throw flame damage on your one handed axes and you have two more dots to proc.

Every move here is a useful tank ability and you don't have to put in extra effort to make it work.

When I tank it's very rare that my skoria isn't dropping bombs.

PainfulFAFA

lynog85 wrote: »

nope, just dont bother bro

This.
Don't bother bro.
Skoria is obsolete now.

Thanks to Wrobel and his itemization genius, the days of creative and viable builds are loooong gone.
Everybody using the same equips to to achieve the same stats to be competitive in PvP only to be cheesed by nightblades.

rip eso

OmniDevil

z_aromb16_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. The set is amazing for a stam dk dark elf tank. It provides DPS by the tank that you normally would never get.

Things that proc skoria as a dk tank;

Inner fire
Volatile armor
Caltrops
Extended chain
Unstable flame
Choking talons
Shooting star
Ash cloud and morphs
Throw flame damage on your one handed axes and you have two more dots to proc.

Every move here is a useful tank ability and you don't have to put in extra effort to make it work.

When I tank it's very rare that my skoria isn't dropping bombs.

Disagree all you want, but you're talking about DPS on a roll that's meant to take damage and not necessarily deal it.

DPS for a tank should be an afterthought and anything that deals damage is going to be an increase for a tank, at any rate. Should a tank do ZERO damage? No, but a tank roll is not what the OP was asking about, which was regarding Skoria in a DPS situation, which others have proven that it doesn't add enough to your overall DPS to consider using it over another 2pc set.

Additionally, you've got to be the only player claiming the exact opposite on the really broken proc rate of meteors.

M_TeK_9

OmniDevil wrote: »

z_aromb16_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. The set is amazing for a stam dk dark elf tank. It provides DPS by the tank that you normally would never get.

Things that proc skoria as a dk tank;

Inner fire
Volatile armor
Caltrops
Extended chain
Unstable flame
Choking talons
Shooting star
Ash cloud and morphs
Throw flame damage on your one handed axes and you have two more dots to proc.

Every move here is a useful tank ability and you don't have to put in extra effort to make it work.

When I tank it's very rare that my skoria isn't dropping bombs.

Disagree all you want, but you're talking about DPS on a roll that's meant to take damage and not necessarily deal it.

DPS for a tank should be an afterthought and anything that deals damage is going to be an increase for a tank, at any rate. Should a tank do ZERO damage? No, but a tank roll is not what the OP was asking about, which was regarding Skoria in a DPS situation, which others have proven that it doesn't add enough to your overall DPS to consider using it over another 2pc set.

Additionally, you've got to be the only player claiming the exact opposite on the really broken proc rate of meteors.

Nothing in the op says anything about the build having to be DPS. He just asked for a dk stam build.

And really? I actually can't get over how often VS procs in PvP and PvE. I can toss caltrops up on a keep wall and run away and in the 30 seconds I bet it goes off close to 10 times. Add in every other dot I've mentioned and it rains fire on mofos non stop and I don't even have to pay attention to what it's hitting.

I really recommend trying it again to give it another chance. Its quite the light show

Stelo

z_aromb16_ESO wrote: »

OmniDevil wrote: »

z_aromb16_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. The set is amazing for a stam dk dark elf tank. It provides DPS by the tank that you normally would never get.

Things that proc skoria as a dk tank;

Inner fire
Volatile armor
Caltrops
Extended chain
Unstable flame
Choking talons
Shooting star
Ash cloud and morphs
Throw flame damage on your one handed axes and you have two more dots to proc.

Every move here is a useful tank ability and you don't have to put in extra effort to make it work.

When I tank it's very rare that my skoria isn't dropping bombs.

Disagree all you want, but you're talking about DPS on a roll that's meant to take damage and not necessarily deal it.

DPS for a tank should be an afterthought and anything that deals damage is going to be an increase for a tank, at any rate. Should a tank do ZERO damage? No, but a tank roll is not what the OP was asking about, which was regarding Skoria in a DPS situation, which others have proven that it doesn't add enough to your overall DPS to consider using it over another 2pc set.

Additionally, you've got to be the only player claiming the exact opposite on the really broken proc rate of meteors.

Nothing in the op says anything about the build having to be DPS. He just asked for a dk stam build.

And really? I actually can't get over how often VS procs in PvP and PvE. I can toss caltrops up on a keep wall and run away and in the 30 seconds I bet it goes off close to 10 times. Add in every other dot I've mentioned and it rains fire on mofos non stop and I don't even have to pay attention to what it's hitting.

I really recommend trying it again to give it another chance. Its quite the light show

I understand what you mean, but in a DPS role it just won't be enough imo. I play a Stam DK Tank and I've done pretty much everything here including Inferno, Caltrops, and the 2 DK DoTs all in one. The proc chance really is just way too low to help your DPS. I stopped using DoTs and I've been having a much more successful time which is sad to say, but I keep coming back to it since I know that set has potential. I just don't know how to optimize it.

elium85

@z_aromb16_ESO are you on console or PC?

Joy_Division

OP:

Set is busted. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/238307/valkyn-skoria-set-its-very-different-proc-rate-before-and-after-the-ic-release#latest

People who claim to have good results have not bothered testing the set.

M_TeK_9

elium85 wrote: »

@z_aromb16_ESO are you on console or PC?

console

M_TeK_9

Joy_Division wrote: »

OP:

Set is busted. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/238307/valkyn-skoria-set-its-very-different-proc-rate-before-and-after-the-ic-release#latest

People who claim to have good results have not bothered testing the set.

I'll use it today and upload a video for you. I'm telling you it procs all the time. You can be the judge

EDIT: Even the guy who authored the post in your link says and I quote, "It's just a theory". It's just a percentage. If you know anything about percentages you'd know there is a possibility that Valkyn Skoria may never proc for you at all.

elium85

@z_aromb16_ESO @Joy_Division So, I think this is a discrepancy between PC and Console. On Xbox One, I have a Magicka DK guildie that swears it procs 8-10 times in 60-80 boss fights. I wonder if this nerf was a Cyrodiil performance change that had unintended consequences that consoles do not have implemented.

Joy_Division

z_aromb16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

OP:

Set is busted. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/238307/valkyn-skoria-set-its-very-different-proc-rate-before-and-after-the-ic-release#latest

People who claim to have good results have not bothered testing the set.

I'll use it today and upload a video for you. I'm telling you it procs all the time. You can be the judge

EDIT: Even the guy who authored the post in your link says and I quote, "It's just a theory". It's just a percentage. If you know anything about percentages you'd know there is a possibility that Valkyn Skoria may never proc for you at all.

LoL, I'm the guy who authored the post.

And I know enough about percentages to understand it should proc about once every 9 seconds with my build if it worked the way the claim they did.

M_TeK_9

That's not true at all. Even if the chance to trigger resets on every DoT tick it means there is a 96% chance to not trigger every time it ticks. Unless it's 100% there is a 96% chance that skoria will never in your life proc for you.

Anyway in the video i captured earlier today skoria went off 5 times in a 55 second fight against a single target.

That's once every 11 seconds and me and my group agreed it wasnt triggering as much as it usually does in our dungeon runs. i was using 3 DoT abilities that tick per second.

When I have time I'll record a fight with lot's of ads and use a dot that ticks every 0.5 seconds.

I'll upload them at same time unless you cant wait lol

Joy_Division

z_aromb16_ESO wrote: »

That's not true at all. Even if the chance to trigger resets on every DoT tick it means there is a 96% chance to not trigger every time it ticks. Unless it's 100% there is a 96% chance that skoria will never in your life proc for you.

Anyway in the video i captured earlier today skoria went off 5 times in a 55 second fight against a single target.

That's once every 11 seconds and me and my group agreed it wasnt triggering as much as it usually does in our dungeon runs. i was using 3 DoT abilities that tick per second.

When I have time I'll record a fight with lot's of ads and use a dot that ticks every 0.5 seconds.

I'll upload them at same time unless you cant wait lol

You are telling me I don't know statistics and yet you do not understand how to calculate multiple percentages?

It is possible as one poster suggested that ZoS did not break Skoria on the console. That is the only way to explain your as yet unverified claims.

On the PC however, the set is busted.

elium85

@Joy_Division Yeah, I wish I had the helmet and I could do some serious testing with it. Gotta do more runs of CoA. Guess that also means I need to level up my MageKnight....

@z_aromb16_ESO Joy's right about the percentage chance to proc. For instance, if the set was working as intended and a player has 5 DoTs ticking every second, that leads to a ~18.5% chance of proc every second (they are independent probabilistic events and we want 1-(probability of none of them happening)).

M_TeK_9

Joy_Division wrote: »

z_aromb16_ESO wrote: »

That's not true at all. Even if the chance to trigger resets on every DoT tick it means there is a 96% chance to not trigger every time it ticks. Unless it's 100% there is a 96% chance that skoria will never in your life proc for you.

Anyway in the video i captured earlier today skoria went off 5 times in a 55 second fight against a single target.

That's once every 11 seconds and me and my group agreed it wasnt triggering as much as it usually does in our dungeon runs. i was using 3 DoT abilities that tick per second.

When I have time I'll record a fight with lot's of ads and use a dot that ticks every 0.5 seconds.

I'll upload them at same time unless you cant wait lol

You are telling me I don't know statistics and yet you do not understand how to calculate multiple percentages?

It is possible as one poster suggested that ZoS did not break Skoria on the console. That is the only way to explain your as yet unverified claims.

On the PC however, the set is busted.

elium85 wrote: »

@Joy_Division Yeah, I wish I had the helmet and I could do some serious testing with it. Gotta do more runs of CoA. Guess that also means I need to level up my MageKnight....

@z_aromb16_ESO Joy's right about the percentage chance to proc. For instance, if the set was working as intended and a player has 5 DoTs ticking every second, that leads to a ~18.5% chance of proc every second (they are independent probabilistic events and we want 1-(probability of none of them happening)).

.....smh

The set has a 4% chance on a DoT tick to proc. That's 4% every...individual...second. Always. Never more. Never less. The past results don't affect the chance of the next result.

This guy explains it so everyone can understand.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/13/drop-chance-probability/

In addition to that you'd have to calculate joint probability.

For example, suppose a statistician wishes to know the probability that the number five will occur twice when two dice are rolled at the same time. Since each die has six possible outcomes, the probability of a five occurring on each die is 1/6 or 0.1666.

P(A)=0.1666
P(B)=0.1666

P(A,B)=0.1666 x 0.1666)=0.02777

This means the joint probability that a five will be rolled on both dice at the same time is 0.02777

elium85

@Joy_Division Oh! Now, I get why your numbers are odd, @z_aromb16_ESO. That's not the way Skoria used to work (Joy is claiming it does work that way now on PC in his previous post).

Skoria used to run a proc check every time one did any damage with a skill that's treated as a DoT. So, if a NB hits a target with Entropy, Crippling Grasp, and a Poison Enchant, that would be three ticks a second and three separate proc chances (all of which are independent events like you argued).

So, in my example, I said that a MageKnight may have 5 DoTs on a target. Thus, that's 5 proc chance calculations every second (if we assume the set is working as it used to prior to Orsinium and each of the DoTs tick once per second). That leads to:

P(Skoria Procs in any given second) = 1 - P(Skoria does not proc in given second)
= 1 - P(Skoria does not proc on given check) ^ # DoTs applied to target or Proc Checks
= 1 - .96 ^ 5
= 1 - .815373
~18.5%

Hence, we get the 18.5% number I originally stated. Based upon what you and my guildies have observed, that seems to be the calculations for Skoria to proc on console ATM.

Brrrofski

Nah, go EG if you like all resources (although I dropped mine for ashen grip and use drinks ad I'm an Orc)

1 kena and 1 bloodspawn is just way better IMO.

Regardless of the proc chance, you'd be using DoTs which are meh in pvp. Purge, purifying Ritual and dark cloak are common skills (especially cloak with the amount of NBs around currently) that negate a lot of what you'd be using. Stack weapon damage and go instant, burst damage skills. You'll do more damage than DoTs and skoria.

Savos_Saren

z_aromb16_ESO wrote: »

I disagree. The set is amazing for a stam dk dark elf tank. It provides DPS by the tank that you normally would never get.

Things that proc skoria as a dk tank;

Inner fire
Volatile armor
Caltrops
Extended chain
Unstable flame
Choking talons
Shooting star
Ash cloud and morphs
Throw flame damage on your one handed axes and you have two more dots to proc.

Every move here is a useful tank ability and you don't have to put in extra effort to make it work.

When I tank it's very rare that my skoria isn't dropping bombs.

@z_aromb16_ESO

I have a NB tank that uses Valkyn and I love it... but I have one question:

"Throw flame damage on your one handed axes and you have two more dots to proc"- how do you get two out of that? I understand that the flame enchant might proc the burning effect... which in turn would proc Valkyn. What's the other chance?

Joy_Division

z_aromb16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

z_aromb16_ESO wrote: »

That's not true at all. Even if the chance to trigger resets on every DoT tick it means there is a 96% chance to not trigger every time it ticks. Unless it's 100% there is a 96% chance that skoria will never in your life proc for you.

Anyway in the video i captured earlier today skoria went off 5 times in a 55 second fight against a single target.

That's once every 11 seconds and me and my group agreed it wasnt triggering as much as it usually does in our dungeon runs. i was using 3 DoT abilities that tick per second.

When I have time I'll record a fight with lot's of ads and use a dot that ticks every 0.5 seconds.

I'll upload them at same time unless you cant wait lol

You are telling me I don't know statistics and yet you do not understand how to calculate multiple percentages?

It is possible as one poster suggested that ZoS did not break Skoria on the console. That is the only way to explain your as yet unverified claims.

On the PC however, the set is busted.

elium85 wrote: »

@Joy_Division Yeah, I wish I had the helmet and I could do some serious testing with it. Gotta do more runs of CoA. Guess that also means I need to level up my MageKnight....

@z_aromb16_ESO Joy's right about the percentage chance to proc. For instance, if the set was working as intended and a player has 5 DoTs ticking every second, that leads to a ~18.5% chance of proc every second (they are independent probabilistic events and we want 1-(probability of none of them happening)).

.....smh

The set has a 4% chance on a DoT tick to proc. That's 4% every...individual...second. Always. Never more. Never less. The past results don't affect the chance of the next result.

This guy explains it so everyone can understand.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/13/drop-chance-probability/

In addition to that you'd have to calculate joint probability.

For example, suppose a statistician wishes to know the probability that the number five will occur twice when two dice are rolled at the same time. Since each die has six possible outcomes, the probability of a five occurring on each die is 1/6 or 0.1666.

P(A)=0.1666
P(B)=0.1666

P(A,B)=0.1666 x 0.1666)=0.02777

This means the joint probability that a five will be rolled on both dice at the same time is 0.02777

First of all, you are wrong because DoTs do not all tick at the same rate. Wall of Elements ticks every half second. Eruption used to tick every half second. It now ticks every second. Stuff like Structured Entropy and Burning Breath tick every other second. So it's not "4% every...individual...second. Always. Never more. Never less." Not always. Sometimes more. Sometimes less. It depends what DoT(s) you have active.

Secondly, it's not at all clear the set is (now) taking multiple DoTs in effect. Before IC it did as the average proc rate of one every 10 seconds is too fast to explain with a half second Eruption on its own. Every PC player that used this set and cares enough about their DPS to post it publicly noticed immediately after the IC patch, that the proc rate was, from a mathematical perspective, significantly less even though we were using the same builds. We do not know why. We only know the set does not function in the same way as it did before the IC patch. The damage parses I posted reveal a consistent pattern of performance before and a very different and very inconsistent performance after.

So go ahead and shake your head lecturing me about mathematics. You don't even know the frequency of when DoTs tick and you want to offer advice to someone about gear dependent on DoTs. You posted zero evidence whatsoever to dispute anything I have written.

M_TeK_9

@Joy_Division Well that's not entirely true I've posted evidence that you could use some work on calculating probability. lol. I'll admit that said evidence also says the same for me though. But listen man I see your post and screen shots and it's obvious something isn't right with the numbers yada yada so I'm not going to argue with that. I'll be able to run a dungeon boss in an hour or so but in the mean time I'll upload the video I recorded yesterday for you to see. Unfortunately console has no dmg counter add-ons which royally sucks but I'm disagreeing with the claim that it "rarely procs" and not the loss/gain in damage for a DPS build claim. I'm also willing to entertain the idea that the PC version is broken and console is not. In my video the meteors are observable and the fight is timed so there should be no discrepancies. I'm using bottom grade DSL internet so be patient for the link.

Stelo

Brrrofski wrote: »

Nah, go EG if you like all resources (although I dropped mine for ashen grip and use drinks ad I'm an Orc)

1 kena and 1 bloodspawn is just way better IMO.

Regardless of the proc chance, you'd be using DoTs which are meh in pvp. Purge, purifying Ritual and dark cloak are common skills (especially cloak with the amount of NBs around currently) that negate a lot of what you'd be using. Stack weapon damage and go instant, burst damage skills. You'll do more damage than DoTs and skoria.

That's exactly why I quit using DoTs. They're just not helpful enough especially since cloak can negate my DoTs. There'd be no point in using them.

M_TeK_9

@Joy_Division

I havent had a chance to record an ad fight as of yet. I've been dragged in to content that requires more tank and less spank from the meatshield. I'll get a run in tonight sometime and save it but this is a clean clip for you to check
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUsnP0rzb7M

Joy_Division

@z_aromb16_ESO - posting an instructional video about something I learned how to do in grammar school isn't evidence of how the mechanics of ESO work

It's not like this is a conspiracy theory of mine. Every single DK that I raided with before the IC used this. All of them. We all immediately noticed the lower proc rate. None of them care any more because Kena is such a better set.

I don't know how people play on console for precisely why this thread exists: there are no damage numbers, no combat recaps, players have no idea what their skills are doing and you have to go on gut instinct. How are people supposed to have the knowledge to compete and do better? In any event, in the video you posted, it's a short fight with 5 procs in 60 some odd seconds and there is nothing that tells us if its anything more than a pretty light show. It doesn't make the PC version all of a sudden work. It is a baby-step that hints that ZoS is better at coding consoles than PC. DPS tests should be done on long fights to mitigate the unwanted effects of RNG. Upload half as many (longer) videos as I have damage parses with a proc range 1 in 10 seconds as that will tell me and ZoS to look at the PC and console coding for the two sets and see what's wrong on the PC side.

Morozov

z_aromb16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

OP:

Set is busted. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/238307/valkyn-skoria-set-its-very-different-proc-rate-before-and-after-the-ic-release#latest

People who claim to have good results have not bothered testing the set.

I'll use it today and upload a video for you. I'm telling you it procs all the time. You can be the judge

EDIT: Even the guy who authored the post in your link says and I quote, "It's just a theory". It's just a percentage. If you know anything about percentages you'd know there is a possibility that Valkyn Skoria may never proc for you at all.

procs all the time? but how often does it help you kill a target? How quick are your dots purged? if you are tossing caltrops on people you are just tagging folks for AP and not going in for a kill. Like many have said before and it has been proven, Its a DPS LOSS. For the sake of OP, its not a viable set if you are min/maxing or trying to get close.

Now if OP, wants to see a light show, more power to him/her.