vMA - It really needs at least ONE checkpoint

revonine

The difficulty is fine (for everyone that's not a Sorc at least), I'm really learning to up my game getting through this, but seriously it really needs at least one checkpoint that saves your progress. That resets every week. Content like this really encourages unhealthy binge play and it need not be this way.

Again I repeat the difficulty need not change.

phbell

Agreed - I would favor more than one checkpoint actually.

Faunter

I remember it being said that they were exploring ways to allow your progress to be saved in vMSA, but that they also had nothing concrete to share at the time.

revonine

Faunter wrote: »

I remember it being said that they were exploring ways to allow your progress to be saved in vMSA, but that they also had nothing concrete to share at the time.

Well it's good news that they have at least acknowledged something ^^

UrQuan

Honestly, the fact that you can't stop at some point and come back to complete it later is the main reason I haven't even attempted VMSA. I do plan to try it (I don't expect to succeed because I doubt I'm top tier enough as a player to do it, but that won't stop me from trying), but the whole thing about not being able to save your progress means that the only way I'm ever going to try it is if I know I have a large chunk of uninterrupted time that I can devote to it. It will happen at some point, but it hasn't happened yet for in the time since Orsinium has been out.

Faunter

revonine wrote: »

Faunter wrote: »

I remember it being said that they were exploring ways to allow your progress to be saved in vMSA, but that they also had nothing concrete to share at the time.

Well it's good news that they have at least acknowledged something ^^

I'm sure they're doing their best. I just wish I could remember if it was mentioned on an episode of ESO Live or somewhere here on the forums.

revonine

UrQuan wrote: »

Honestly, the fact that you can't stop at some point and come back to complete it later is the main reason I haven't even attempted VMSA. I do plan to try it (I don't expect to succeed because I doubt I'm top tier enough as a player to do it, but that won't stop me from trying), but the whole thing about not being able to save your progress means that the only way I'm ever going to try it is if I know I have a large chunk of uninterrupted time that I can devote to it. It will happen at some point, but it hasn't happened yet for in the time since Orsinium has been out.

I managed to get myself to Stage 5 last boss round in one sitting. Quite a few deaths though. But Stage 5 alone is gonna take alot of practice for me to get through. It'll probably take me more than an hour again to reach that point and it wears you down before you even reach the point your stuck on.

Lightninvash

yeah one checkpoint at the beginning before you start

revonine

Lightninvash wrote: »

yeah one checkpoint at the beginning before you start

get out :P

UrQuan

revonine wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Honestly, the fact that you can't stop at some point and come back to complete it later is the main reason I haven't even attempted VMSA. I do plan to try it (I don't expect to succeed because I doubt I'm top tier enough as a player to do it, but that won't stop me from trying), but the whole thing about not being able to save your progress means that the only way I'm ever going to try it is if I know I have a large chunk of uninterrupted time that I can devote to it. It will happen at some point, but it hasn't happened yet for in the time since Orsinium has been out.

I managed to get myself to Stage 5 last boss round in one sitting. Quite a few deaths though. But Stage 5 alone is gonna take alot of practice for me to get through. It'll probably take me more than an hour again to reach that point and it wears you down before you even reach the point your stuck on.

That's exactly my concern. Taking forever to get to a stage that I get stuck on (which one is stage 5 - is that the one with the webbed pillars? that one was the hardest one on normal MSA for me, so I'm sure it would give me fits on VMSA), and then not being able to come back to that stage later without first slogging through the preceding stages.

I'd also be fine with an option for a checkpoint that then made you not eligible for the leaderboards. Maybe the leaderboards should be reserved for those who can get through it all in one go, as those people are clearly more elite than those of us who would get worn down and require the checkpoint. That would be fine by me.

Arkadius

Faunter wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

Faunter wrote: »

I remember it being said that they were exploring ways to allow your progress to be saved in vMSA, but that they also had nothing concrete to share at the time.

Well it's good news that they have at least acknowledged something ^^

I'm sure they're doing their best. I just wish I could remember if it was mentioned on an episode of ESO Live or somewhere here on the forums.

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks, thought I would chime in here. I know that some people will be happy and some won't but we have no plans to adjust balance in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. Looking at the data, we are happy with the amount of progression that has been made as well as the nature of this aspirational content. I understand that this is not what some of you want to hear but, we are taking a look at some of the more frustrating parts of the Arena that do not affect balance.

Bugs of course are a top priority. We can take a look at these and address them to make sure they don't artificially inflate the challenge. You should see more on that in a future patch.

Things like Repair costs are something we are looking at to mitigate in particular. As for having to respec and Champion points being a big factor, that was the design behind this content. We want players to look at this and aspire to be able to beat it. It can be frustrating for sure, as is any content that is extremely difficult, but it is very rewarding when you make that turn and best the challenge.

One other thing that we are looking at, which is not planned nor on a schedule yet, is saving progress in Veteran Maelstrom. Its something we would really like to do but is not the easiest of things to accomplish so we are exploring how we could go about it design/back-end wise before we can determine the time it would need.

As I said before, I know this is not what some of you want to hear but I hope some of the things we are looking at can mitigate some of the frustrations you may have. Keep at it.

revonine

Xiana wrote: »

Faunter wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

Faunter wrote: »

I remember it being said that they were exploring ways to allow your progress to be saved in vMSA, but that they also had nothing concrete to share at the time.

Well it's good news that they have at least acknowledged something ^^

I'm sure they're doing their best. I just wish I could remember if it was mentioned on an episode of ESO Live or somewhere here on the forums.

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks, thought I would chime in here. I know that some people will be happy and some won't but we have no plans to adjust balance in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. Looking at the data, we are happy with the amount of progression that has been made as well as the nature of this aspirational content. I understand that this is not what some of you want to hear but, we are taking a look at some of the more frustrating parts of the Arena that do not affect balance.

Bugs of course are a top priority. We can take a look at these and address them to make sure they don't artificially inflate the challenge. You should see more on that in a future patch.

Things like Repair costs are something we are looking at to mitigate in particular. As for having to respec and Champion points being a big factor, that was the design behind this content. We want players to look at this and aspire to be able to beat it. It can be frustrating for sure, as is any content that is extremely difficult, but it is very rewarding when you make that turn and best the challenge.

One other thing that we are looking at, which is not planned nor on a schedule yet, is saving progress in Veteran Maelstrom. Its something we would really like to do but is not the easiest of things to accomplish so we are exploring how we could go about it design/back-end wise before we can determine the time it would need.

As I said before, I know this is not what some of you want to hear but I hope some of the things we are looking at can mitigate some of the frustrations you may have. Keep at it.

Thank you for that source @Xiana

UrQuan wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Honestly, the fact that you can't stop at some point and come back to complete it later is the main reason I haven't even attempted VMSA. I do plan to try it (I don't expect to succeed because I doubt I'm top tier enough as a player to do it, but that won't stop me from trying), but the whole thing about not being able to save your progress means that the only way I'm ever going to try it is if I know I have a large chunk of uninterrupted time that I can devote to it. It will happen at some point, but it hasn't happened yet for in the time since Orsinium has been out.

I managed to get myself to Stage 5 last boss round in one sitting. Quite a few deaths though. But Stage 5 alone is gonna take alot of practice for me to get through. It'll probably take me more than an hour again to reach that point and it wears you down before you even reach the point your stuck on.

That's exactly my concern. Taking forever to get to a stage that I get stuck on (which one is stage 5 - is that the one with the webbed pillars? that one was the hardest one on normal MSA for me, so I'm sure it would give me fits on VMSA), and then not being able to come back to that stage later without first slogging through the preceding stages.

I'd also be fine with an option for a checkpoint that then made you not eligible for the leaderboards. Maybe the leaderboards should be reserved for those who can get through it all in one go, as those people are clearly more elite than those of us who would get worn down and require the checkpoint. That would be fine by me.

Stage 5 is the frozen lake one, if I've got my numbers correct. Issues were kinda compounded by the fact for me at least that AOE markers weren't appearing on the ground. Idk if they are aware of that issue either, but it's happening to me in dungeons too (I'm on console) So yeah I was probably running War Hero mode not veteran xD

Autolycus

Honestly, I would really like to see a checkpoint mechanic implemented after every arena. But, I don't think that a run in which a checkpoint was utilized to pick up where one left off, say earlier that day or a prior day, should be counted on the leaderboards.

I've had a similar discussion with some of my friends/guildmates. One of my guildies was the first to complete vMA on DC, but we also have a lot of people who take a more casual approach to the game. Those people want to do vMA, but they don't have the time to binge play, nor do they care about getting an all-time high score.

It would be nice if vMA had an option to pick up at a particular arena, if anything for the sake of learning and getting through it. It can be a very enjoyable run, and it can be an incredibly frustrating one, but at least this way everyone would be able to experience the whole thing. It shouldn't have a negative impact on those players that are trying for top board spots.

Lightninvash

revonine wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

yeah one checkpoint at the beginning before you start

get out :P

well you didn't specify

revonine

Autolycus wrote: »

I've had a similar discussion with some of my friends/guildmates. One of my guildies was the first to complete vMA on DC, but we also have a lot of people who take a more casual approach to the game. Those people want to do vMA, but they don't have the time to binge play, nor do they care about getting an all-time high score.

Good point. There's may players out there that would love to challenge themselves with this type of content but do not have the time to sit down and play for hours at a time due to RL commitments, work etc. I am in this category. It's not for lack of skill, it's the time required.
Easily accessible content (not difficulty) can only be a plus for an MMO.

UrQuan

revonine wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

I've had a similar discussion with some of my friends/guildmates. One of my guildies was the first to complete vMA on DC, but we also have a lot of people who take a more casual approach to the game. Those people want to do vMA, but they don't have the time to binge play, nor do they care about getting an all-time high score.

Good point. There's may players out there that would love to challenge themselves with this type of content but do not have the time to sit down and play for hours at a time due to RL commitments, work etc. I am in this category. It's not for lack of skill, it's the time required.
Easily accessible content (not difficulty) can only be a plus for an MMO.

Realistically, for me it's probably both

But if I can overcome the time required bit then maybe I'll surprise myself and actually have the skill to do it If not, I won't call for a nerf or anything - it's OK to have difficult content in an MMO that only the top players can complete, even if that means I can't complete it myself.

revonine

UrQuan wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

I've had a similar discussion with some of my friends/guildmates. One of my guildies was the first to complete vMA on DC, but we also have a lot of people who take a more casual approach to the game. Those people want to do vMA, but they don't have the time to binge play, nor do they care about getting an all-time high score.

Good point. There's may players out there that would love to challenge themselves with this type of content but do not have the time to sit down and play for hours at a time due to RL commitments, work etc. I am in this category. It's not for lack of skill, it's the time required.
Easily accessible content (not difficulty) can only be a plus for an MMO.

Realistically, for me it's probably both

But if I can overcome the time required bit then maybe I'll surprise myself and actually have the skill to do it If not, I won't call for a nerf or anything - it's OK to have difficult content in an MMO that only the top players can complete, even if that means I can't complete it myself.

I used to think that back when I had the time to raid in FFXIV before I actually starting doing it. it's literally just learning the dance steps and replaying them over and over.

Magdalina

To be honest I agree. I've been thinking about this and it's just...I've gotten to 5th Arena on my first(well second but the one before that was in old gear and I crashed and gave up on arena 2) try and I'd love to complete it but...it's just too much time. And it MUST be at once, I can't even afk to eat for 15 mins because it'll reset. It being a solo instance makes it worse, in a group one running with friends I could always ask them to wait and I've had friends wait for me for as long as ~half an hour or more before(not something I'd normally ask but sh*t happens) but in solo one...yeah no.

It really isn't about skill so much(I mean it is not ONLY about skill) when you simply can't guarantee 4+ hours of game time with no interruptions to complete it for the first time. I'd love to figure the mechanics out for myself, I don't want to watch videos or ask people but...that's why I still haven't done it. I don't want to get to arena 9 and realize it's so late I REALLY need to go walk dog so buh bye my vMSA clear.

I've also been having some computer issues lately so that's another reason why I couldn't guarantee 4+ hours of no interruptions. And once again it's less of an issue when I can simply tell a friend via Skype - "I froze, sorry, go on clear trash without me and wait for me on boss please" and another when I'll lose all my progress if I can't log back in in <10 minutes(and yes I do need a new laptop but I can't afford one right now )

revonine

Magdalina wrote: »

I'd love to figure the mechanics out for myself, I don't want to watch videos or ask people but...that's why I still haven't done it.

When I watch those videos they make it look so easy and that in itself throws me off my game :P
Video guides have always been useless to me as I'm the person that learns by doing.

phbell

I f I leave non-vet MA the game remembers what level I left at. I cannot believe that asking the same from the VMA is that big of a request.

Autolycus

phbell wrote: »

I f I leave non-vet MA the game remembers what level I left at. I cannot believe that asking the same from the VMA is that big of a request.

I agree. I think it would work just fine to have 3 version of MA: normal, vet "progression" mode, and veteran (for leaderboards). It could be something as simple as a prompt: "Would you like to continue from your last checkpoint?"

revonine

Autolycus wrote: »

phbell wrote: »

I f I leave non-vet MA the game remembers what level I left at. I cannot believe that asking the same from the VMA is that big of a request.

I agree. I think it would work just fine to have 3 version of MA: normal, vet "progression" mode, and veteran (for leaderboards). It could be something as simple as a prompt: "Would you like to continue from your last checkpoint?"

The only thing that I can think of is that it screws with the leaderboards somehow with how the scores are calculated. But even then like COME ON even my calculator can save a few numbers. They're already recorded on leaderboards anyway so the game has that capability. AND the game already has this save feature for normal mode as @phbell has pointed out. The excuses they spew for features and fixes that the playerbase are dying for stinks of corporate BS. See "Lighting Patch" xD