Dear ZOS- Why can't we play "This game" it used to work

RinaldoGandolphi

Video dated March 17th, 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64bBvOKxnVE

Look at how many people there are in once place, look at all the siege sheilds, particle effects, bombs and siege going off...stable 60 FPS

Where is this game? Why can't we have this game? This game used to work, why can't you just roll it back to a version that did work? Im sure many would give up some fancy lights for a workable game....

Weberda

Wish I hadn't watched that.

Minno

I miss this

Sallington

Alcast

+

Minno

Sallington wrote: »

Alcast

https://youtu.be/-DV9TwsosyI?t=3m16s

Draxys

Seriously, I can't keep watching videos of pre 1.6

Weberda

Alcast wrote: »

https://youtu.be/-DV9TwsosyI?t=3m16s

Lol. Typical AD. "Well, there's 200 of us here now. Lets get those DC guys"..........damn shame we can hardly get away with 20 in one place now without lagging the whole campaign.

forzajuve212

That hurts

Sallington

Game works.

Lighting patch/bot patch. Game broken.

Remove deer. Stumped why game is still broken.

(days turn into week, weeks turn in months)

Still looking for what could possibly be a fix for game.

sadownik

This is the game i fell for and bought 1 week after PC launch, although the pve side seemed medicore at best from the beginning. And thats why i didnt log in in 2 months now even to feed poor mounts.

Minno

Sallington wrote: »

Game works.

Lighting patch/bot patch. Game broken.

end game quest broken

Remove deer. Stumped why game is still broken.

(days turn into week, weeks turn in months)

players leave in droves as cyro too laggy to play for a month and pve players leave due to not getting vet ranks

games goes F2P as subscriptions die out

Still looking for what could possibly be a fix for game.

Added in bold.

PainfulFAFA

Alcast wrote: »

https://youtu.be/-DV9TwsosyI?t=3m16s

sigh..
good ol' days of cyrodiil
Best thing was that a zerg like Joe's could be cut thru and wiped with an experienced guild.

Minno

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

https://youtu.be/-DV9TwsosyI?t=3m16s

sigh..
good ol' days of cyrodiil
Best thing was that a zerg like Joe's could be cut thru and wiped with an experienced guild.

Funny thing is, if you watch the intro trailer for this game, it is clear from a design standpoint that the game is suppose to have large scale battles with epic heroes running around killing people. Your comment represents the closest thing to the trailer intent.

Edit:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=soKDyDjc3KQ

Look at that Breton dude kick butt without a zerg!!!

Dreyloch

People keep beating this dead horse called 1.6

It's already been said numerous times that the entire population started to max out about that time. Everyone had morphs of their abilities. Everyone had gotten new sparkly effects on their skills. Please go watch the last videocast with Brian Wheeler. It explains a LOT of what's been happening.

Should it have been foreseen or fixed by now? YES! ... Can we all wish for those days when 200 ppl could be on screen? Sure.
Can we all turn down or off certain effects? Yes we can.Can we all stop blaming the lighting patch now? Yeah, I think we can. Calculating LoS, crunching the numbers to enhance or limit the AE of many abilities really is way more intensive on server load than the light crap. So please, that horse is nothing but atoms now.

Trust me, I hate the lag just as much as anyone. I want it fixed just as badly. But lets point in the right direction for the cause. Which isn't 1.6 directly.

mertusta

I missed old days..

Draxys

Dreyloch wrote: »

People keep beating this dead horse called 1.6

It's already been said numerous times that the entire population started to max out about that time. Everyone had morphs of their abilities. Everyone had gotten new sparkly effects on their skills. Please go watch the last videocast with Brian Wheeler. It explains a LOT of what's been happening.

Should it have been foreseen or fixed by now? YES! ... Can we all wish for those days when 200 ppl could be on screen? Sure.
Can we all turn down or off certain effects? Yes we can.Can we all stop blaming the lighting patch now? Yeah, I think we can. Calculating LoS, crunching the numbers to enhance or limit the AE of many abilities really is way more intensive on server load than the light crap. So please, that horse is nothing but atoms now.

So, what then? When the lighting patch hit, all of the sudden hundreds of thousands of players instantly got a bunch more passives and stuff that the servers had to calculate? Is that what caused the magical shift in performance?

Stikato

Dreyloch wrote: »

People keep beating this dead horse called 1.6

It's already been said numerous times that the entire population started to max out about that time. Everyone had morphs of their abilities. Everyone had gotten new sparkly effects on their skills. Please go watch the last videocast with Brian Wheeler. It explains a LOT of what's been happening.

Should it have been foreseen or fixed by now? YES! ... Can we all wish for those days when 200 ppl could be on screen? Sure.
Can we all turn down or off certain effects? Yes we can.Can we all stop blaming the lighting patch now? Yeah, I think we can. Calculating LoS, crunching the numbers to enhance or limit the AE of many abilities really is way more intensive on server load than the light crap. So please, that horse is nothing but atoms now.

It wasn't 1.6. I think it was 1.3.

Those of us who were there know that that patch killed performance. Anything else, like people leveling up skills coincidentally at the same time is wishful and borderline ignorant thinking. Here's how it happened. These are only the basic facts.

1) Pre-patch, performance was good. As evidenced by the videos
2) Immediately after the patch, the "FPS Bug" started. Which was, after any sort of decent engagement, FPS would collapse into the 2-6 range. After the engagement, FPS would not improve. The only was to fix it was to exit the game. This was a sudden, drastic change, that was *immediately* felt after the patch.
3) This went on for weeks. 2-3, if I recall correctly.
4) ZOS pushed a fix, that improved the situation. In particular, the FPS would now return to a higher level after a fight. However, it did not improve to the level that it had been at before the patch. It was clear to every single pvp player that played this game at that time that this patch had broken something significant within the game that was manifesting in lower FPS across the board.

Now, specific reasons why this is the case are above my level of knowledge. Including the interaction, if any, between video and net lag.

Minno

Dreyloch wrote: »

People keep beating this dead horse called 1.6

It's already been said numerous times that the entire population started to max out about that time. Everyone had morphs of their abilities. Everyone had gotten new sparkly effects on their skills. Please go watch the last videocast with Brian Wheeler. It explains a LOT of what's been happening.

Should it have been foreseen or fixed by now? YES! ... Can we all wish for those days when 200 ppl could be on screen? Sure.
Can we all turn down or off certain effects? Yes we can.Can we all stop blaming the lighting patch now? Yeah, I think we can. Calculating LoS, crunching the numbers to enhance or limit the AE of many abilities really is way more intensive on server load than the light crap. So please, that horse is nothing but atoms now.

One can almost include animation cancel too.
More skills cast meant more server calcs and more lag. Remove animation cancel?

Lighting patch was a milestone if anything. It indicated decline of the game. Where the lag persistent for months and pvp players left the game. Pve was also broken (end quest line) so players couldn't reach vr ranks. Loss of subscriptions meant f2p.

Yea Brian mentioned it wasn't the lighting patch. But it was the canary.

RinaldoGandolphi

Stikato wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

People keep beating this dead horse called 1.6

It's already been said numerous times that the entire population started to max out about that time. Everyone had morphs of their abilities. Everyone had gotten new sparkly effects on their skills. Please go watch the last videocast with Brian Wheeler. It explains a LOT of what's been happening.

Should it have been foreseen or fixed by now? YES! ... Can we all wish for those days when 200 ppl could be on screen? Sure.
Can we all turn down or off certain effects? Yes we can.Can we all stop blaming the lighting patch now? Yeah, I think we can. Calculating LoS, crunching the numbers to enhance or limit the AE of many abilities really is way more intensive on server load than the light crap. So please, that horse is nothing but atoms now.

It wasn't 1.6. I think it was 1.3.

Those of us who were there know that that patch killed performance. Anything else, like people leveling up skills coincidentally at the same time is wishful and borderline ignorant thinking. Here's how it happened. These are only the basic facts.

1) Pre-patch, performance was good. As evidenced by the videos
2) Immediately after the patch, the "FPS Bug" started. Which was, after any sort of decent engagement, FPS would collapse into the 2-6 range. After the engagement, FPS would not improve. The only was to fix it was to exit the game. This was a sudden, drastic change, that was *immediately* felt after the patch.
3) This went on for weeks. 2-3, if I recall correctly.
4) ZOS pushed a fix, that improved the situation. In particular, the FPS would now return to a higher level after a fight. However, it did not improve to the level that it had been at before the patch. It was clear to every single pvp player that played this game at that time that this patch had broken something significant within the game that was manifesting in lower FPS across the board.

Now, specific reasons why this is the case are above my level of knowledge. Including the interaction, if any, between video and net lag.

Exactly!

Here is the patch that ruined Cyrodiil performance

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/113161/patch-notes-v1-2-3

After that we see

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/116009/patch-notes-v1-2-4

The Elder Scrolls Online v1.2.4 is an incremental patch featuring fixes to gameplay and quests, including a fix for Silver Bolts, the sudden drop in FPS that you’re seeing in Cyrodiil, and weapon swapping breaking stealth.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/117919/patch-notes-v1-2-5

The Elder Scrolls Online v1.2.5 is an incremental patch and addresses many issues with quests, UI, and gameplay. We have also introduced some changes to the Veteran system to make it more solo-friendly. We have implemented some small performance improvements that may result in better FPS for some. Please note that is part of an ongoing effort to resolve client performance issues, and we are working on additional improvements and fixes as well. We understand how much frustration this causes, and it remains our number one priority.

So we know from ZOS very own patch notes, the FPS issues started in patch 1.2.3 with the new lighting, and they tried to fix it in 1.2.4 and it didn;t work, they then tried to fix it again 1.2.5, and it still didn't work and ZOS admitted as much in the 1.2.5 patch notes and told us "This is an ongoing effort and were going to continue to try and fix it" and then brushed it under the rug and never bothered to come back and fix it.

This games client performance hasn't been the same since...the 1.2.3 patch ruined this games performance. Fengrush has a new I7 Skylake and a high end GPU and is getting 15 FPS in large keep battles where in the video above, lesser hardware is getting 60 fps with more people then we have right now. there is easily 130+ players in that video between who is in the keep and who is on the maybe more and performance was solid.

I don't believe for one second people "unlocking passives" just happened to happen around the same time as the lighting patch ruining performance. Even if folks did unlock passives, it doesn't explain the 3fps in Cyrodiil bug that they admitted in their own patch notes they never really ever completely fixed.

The issues you see in Cyrodiil right now are caused by the the issues in the 1.2.3 patch, issues they never really fixed, their own 1.2.5 patch notes admit they hadn't fully fixed the problem, what we have now is left over code that is lagging things to death.

all most of us want is the game and how it played in the videos posted here, they need to remove this lighting patch and this anti-botting whatever nonsense...what good is an anti-botting system that kills your game...that's like cutting your head off to save your arm....

ZOS needs to roll the game software back to a version prior to 1.2.3, that update killed performance in this game. I still fully believe its more responsible for the lag then any other factor.

RinaldoGandolphi

Dreyloch wrote: »

People keep beating this dead horse called 1.6

It's already been said numerous times that the entire population started to max out about that time. Everyone had morphs of their abilities. Everyone had gotten new sparkly effects on their skills. Please go watch the last videocast with Brian Wheeler. It explains a LOT of what's been happening.

Should it have been foreseen or fixed by now? YES! ... Can we all wish for those days when 200 ppl could be on screen? Sure.
Can we all turn down or off certain effects? Yes we can.Can we all stop blaming the lighting patch now? Yeah, I think we can. Calculating LoS, crunching the numbers to enhance or limit the AE of many abilities really is way more intensive on server load than the light crap. So please, that horse is nothing but atoms now.

Trust me, I hate the lag just as much as anyone. I want it fixed just as badly. But lets point in the right direction for the cause. Which isn't 1.6 directly.

I linked patch notes from the Devs stating this isn;t true. They admitted in their own patch notes the FPS bug with 1.2.3 was never fully fixed. They brushed it under the rug after giving us lip service. the cause of today's lag is listed in ZOS very own patch notes, that horrible FPS bug from back in the day was never fully fixed...performance was been down the drain since that patch, they need to roll the darn thing back, it worked before that update.

Minno

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

People keep beating this dead horse called 1.6

It's already been said numerous times that the entire population started to max out about that time. Everyone had morphs of their abilities. Everyone had gotten new sparkly effects on their skills. Please go watch the last videocast with Brian Wheeler. It explains a LOT of what's been happening.

Should it have been foreseen or fixed by now? YES! ... Can we all wish for those days when 200 ppl could be on screen? Sure.
Can we all turn down or off certain effects? Yes we can.Can we all stop blaming the lighting patch now? Yeah, I think we can. Calculating LoS, crunching the numbers to enhance or limit the AE of many abilities really is way more intensive on server load than the light crap. So please, that horse is nothing but atoms now.

Trust me, I hate the lag just as much as anyone. I want it fixed just as badly. But lets point in the right direction for the cause. Which isn't 1.6 directly.

I linked patch notes from the Devs stating this isn;t true. They admitted in their own patch notes the FPS bug with 1.2.3 was never fully fixed. They brushed it under the rug after giving us lip service. the cause of today's lag is listed in ZOS very own patch notes, that horrible FPS bug from back in the day was never fully fixed...performance was been down the drain since that patch, they need to roll the darn thing back, it worked before that update.

Correct. I was about to post those notes too!

Though Brian said via ESO live recently it wasnt the lighting patch. But somehow the patch notes paint a different picture.

Also, many of those visual patches were vague with 2 sentences only. I wonder how much of the light is being reflected around, how skill's lighting effects calculation if at all, if the slider bars introduced to reduce performance problems actually work?

Lots of craziness.

Van_0S

Minno wrote: »

Should it have been foreseen or fixed by now? YES! ... Can we all wish for

One can almost include animation cancel too.
More skills cast meant more server calcs and more lag. Remove animation cancel?

Zenimax is can't remove animation cancelling because there is no cool down in those active abilities.

So, zeni lies to us by saying they support it .

Minno

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

People keep beating this dead horse called 1.6

It's already been said numerous times that the entire population started to max out about that time. Everyone had morphs of their abilities. Everyone had gotten new sparkly effects on their skills. Please go watch the last videocast with Brian Wheeler. It explains a LOT of what's been happening.

Should it have been foreseen or fixed by now? YES! ... Can we all wish for those days when 200 ppl could be on screen? Sure.
Can we all turn down or off certain effects? Yes we can.Can we all stop blaming the lighting patch now? Yeah, I think we can. Calculating LoS, crunching the numbers to enhance or limit the AE of many abilities really is way more intensive on server load than the light crap. So please, that horse is nothing but atoms now.

It wasn't 1.6. I think it was 1.3.

Those of us who were there know that that patch killed performance. Anything else, like people leveling up skills coincidentally at the same time is wishful and borderline ignorant thinking. Here's how it happened. These are only the basic facts.

1) Pre-patch, performance was good. As evidenced by the videos
2) Immediately after the patch, the "FPS Bug" started. Which was, after any sort of decent engagement, FPS would collapse into the 2-6 range. After the engagement, FPS would not improve. The only was to fix it was to exit the game. This was a sudden, drastic change, that was *immediately* felt after the patch.
3) This went on for weeks. 2-3, if I recall correctly.
4) ZOS pushed a fix, that improved the situation. In particular, the FPS would now return to a higher level after a fight. However, it did not improve to the level that it had been at before the patch. It was clear to every single pvp player that played this game at that time that this patch had broken something significant within the game that was manifesting in lower FPS across the board.

Now, specific reasons why this is the case are above my level of knowledge. Including the interaction, if any, between video and net lag.

Exactly!

Here is the patch that ruined Cyrodiil performance

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/113161/patch-notes-v1-2-3

After that we see

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/116009/patch-notes-v1-2-4

The Elder Scrolls Online v1.2.4 is an incremental patch featuring fixes to gameplay and quests, including a fix for Silver Bolts, the sudden drop in FPS that you’re seeing in Cyrodiil, and weapon swapping breaking stealth.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/117919/patch-notes-v1-2-5

The Elder Scrolls Online v1.2.5 is an incremental patch and addresses many issues with quests, UI, and gameplay. We have also introduced some changes to the Veteran system to make it more solo-friendly. We have implemented some small performance improvements that may result in better FPS for some. Please note that is part of an ongoing effort to resolve client performance issues, and we are working on additional improvements and fixes as well. We understand how much frustration this causes, and it remains our number one priority.

So we know from ZOS very own patch notes, the FPS issues started in patch 1.2.3 with the new lighting, and they tried to fix it in 1.2.4 and it didn;t work, they then tried to fix it again 1.2.5, and it still didn't work and ZOS admitted as much in the 1.2.5 patch notes and told us "This is an ongoing effort and were going to continue to try and fix it" and then brushed it under the rug and never bothered to come back and fix it.

This games client performance hasn't been the same since...the 1.2.3 patch ruined this games performance. Fengrush has a new I7 Skylake and a high end GPU and is getting 15 FPS in large keep battles where in the video above, lesser hardware is getting 60 fps with more people then we have right now. there is easily 130+ players in that video between who is in the keep and who is on the maybe more and performance was solid.

I don't believe for one second people "unlocking passives" just happened to happen around the same time as the lighting patch ruining performance. Even if folks did unlock passives, it doesn't explain the 3fps in Cyrodiil bug that they admitted in their own patch notes they never really ever completely fixed.

The issues you see in Cyrodiil right now are caused by the the issues in the 1.2.3 patch, issues they never really fixed, their own 1.2.5 patch notes admit they hadn't fully fixed the problem, what we have now is left over code that is lagging things to death.

all most of us want is the game and how it played in the videos posted here, they need to remove this lighting patch and this anti-botting whatever nonsense...what good is an anti-botting system that kills your game...that's like cutting your head off to save your arm....

ZOS needs to roll the game software back to a version prior to 1.2.3, that update killed performance in this game. I still fully believe its more responsible for the lag then any other factor.

"Weapons

Restoration Staff
Grand Healing: Fixed an issue where using this ability would significantly reduce your game’s performance. This fix will help alleviate the sudden FPS drop some of you encountered after we released v1.2.3.
Regeneration: Fixed an issue where using this ability would significantly reduce your game’s performance."

Lol I missed those notes.

nordickittyhawk

video makes me sad.

OdinForge

I haven't seen ZOS responding to many threads, wonder where they are. The next ESO live is pretty much ESO doomsday for me.

nordickittyhawk

OdinForge wrote: »

I haven't seen ZOS responding to many threads, wonder where they are. The next ESO live is pretty much ESO doomsday for me.

I think the next dlc... will hold the fate of this game.

Zyle

I've always thought the lighting patch was the cause because it was a borked patch. To this day I will find bugged out lights that just flicker non stop and cause fps drops when I walk in/near them. I'll start taking screenshots of them. It just didn't feel the same after that patch.

Takllin

Minno wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

People keep beating this dead horse called 1.6

It's already been said numerous times that the entire population started to max out about that time. Everyone had morphs of their abilities. Everyone had gotten new sparkly effects on their skills. Please go watch the last videocast with Brian Wheeler. It explains a LOT of what's been happening.

Should it have been foreseen or fixed by now? YES! ... Can we all wish for those days when 200 ppl could be on screen? Sure.
Can we all turn down or off certain effects? Yes we can.Can we all stop blaming the lighting patch now? Yeah, I think we can. Calculating LoS, crunching the numbers to enhance or limit the AE of many abilities really is way more intensive on server load than the light crap. So please, that horse is nothing but atoms now.

Trust me, I hate the lag just as much as anyone. I want it fixed just as badly. But lets point in the right direction for the cause. Which isn't 1.6 directly.

I linked patch notes from the Devs stating this isn;t true. They admitted in their own patch notes the FPS bug with 1.2.3 was never fully fixed. They brushed it under the rug after giving us lip service. the cause of today's lag is listed in ZOS very own patch notes, that horrible FPS bug from back in the day was never fully fixed...performance was been down the drain since that patch, they need to roll the darn thing back, it worked before that update.

Correct. I was about to post those notes too!

Though Brian said via ESO live recently it wasnt the lighting patch. But somehow the patch notes paint a different picture.

Also, many of those visual patches were vague with 2 sentences only. I wonder how much of the light is being reflected around, how skill's lighting effects calculation if at all, if the slider bars introduced to reduce performance problems actually work?

Lots of craziness.

He's saying the lighting patch isn't what's causing our pings to skyrocket. I think some people get performance confused, as it's not always clear in what context people are talking about, latency or FPS.

Sallington

Takllin wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

People keep beating this dead horse called 1.6

It's already been said numerous times that the entire population started to max out about that time. Everyone had morphs of their abilities. Everyone had gotten new sparkly effects on their skills. Please go watch the last videocast with Brian Wheeler. It explains a LOT of what's been happening.

Should it have been foreseen or fixed by now? YES! ... Can we all wish for those days when 200 ppl could be on screen? Sure.
Can we all turn down or off certain effects? Yes we can.Can we all stop blaming the lighting patch now? Yeah, I think we can. Calculating LoS, crunching the numbers to enhance or limit the AE of many abilities really is way more intensive on server load than the light crap. So please, that horse is nothing but atoms now.

Trust me, I hate the lag just as much as anyone. I want it fixed just as badly. But lets point in the right direction for the cause. Which isn't 1.6 directly.

I linked patch notes from the Devs stating this isn;t true. They admitted in their own patch notes the FPS bug with 1.2.3 was never fully fixed. They brushed it under the rug after giving us lip service. the cause of today's lag is listed in ZOS very own patch notes, that horrible FPS bug from back in the day was never fully fixed...performance was been down the drain since that patch, they need to roll the darn thing back, it worked before that update.

Correct. I was about to post those notes too!

Though Brian said via ESO live recently it wasnt the lighting patch. But somehow the patch notes paint a different picture.

Also, many of those visual patches were vague with 2 sentences only. I wonder how much of the light is being reflected around, how skill's lighting effects calculation if at all, if the slider bars introduced to reduce performance problems actually work?

Lots of craziness.

He's saying the lighting patch isn't what's causing our pings to skyrocket. I think some people get performance confused, as it's not always clear in what context people are talking about, latency or FPS.

Agreed on this point. The lighting patch definitely affected client FPS, but I think the anti-bot stuff affected the server latency, resulting in ping-fest server crapouts. The two don't need to be related.

However, breaking two things at once?