Gear levels when Vet Ranks are removed

Voxicity

Does anyone have any information on how gear levels will work once Vet ranks are removed?

Will Vet 1 gears become 'Level 50 - 50CP'
Vet 16 gears become 'Level 50 - 501CP'?

Will all Vet gear no matter what level become Level 50 with no difference between them in terms of armour and damage values?

NewBlacksmurf

We don't but the reference you make to gear levels???

Let me ask to clarify....are you asking in regards to how the materials (crafting wise too) relate to VR's and if they will move to some CP level?

The VR relation to gear right now is a hot mess....

Even at level 1 its starts off Ok and then after 14....its like WTH why isn't this even or based on content or something. All items should be within the crafting 50 levels and NOT AT ALL BASED ON OTHER STUFF.

Paulington

To quote from @ZOS_RichLambert the current thinking is that 1 VR = 10 CP in terms of gear, roughly. So current VR16 gear will require 160 CP to equip, for example.

However there will be gear with higher CP requirements, just speculating but they could make Trials drop ~300 CP gear for example.

We will see in the New Year, I believe ZOS will start talking about it more then. .

Voxicity

Ahh okay, thanks.

Was just wondering if the CP system will remain how it is now (not related to equipping gears) and just everything will be Level 50 and anyone can equip that gear no matter the champion points they have.

Or if the champion points will be the new 'levels', which I guess they will be.

It sounds pretty confusing to me but yeah we'll see what happens, not gonna pass a judgement just yet.

QuebraRegra

Paulington wrote: »

To quote from @ZOS_RichLambert the current thinking is that 1 VR = 10 CP in terms of gear, roughly. So current VR16 gear will require 160 CP to equip, for example.

However there will be gear with higher CP requirements, just speculating but they could make Trials drop ~300 CP gear for example.

We will see in the New Year, I believe ZOS will start talking about it more then. .

more CP @#*&?!?!? Oh it will be time to dump this game. Basing gear on CP is even worse than the VET system. trading one bad idea for another imbalance.

DaveMoeDee

Vox wrote: »

Ahh okay, thanks.

Was just wondering if the CP system will remain how it is now (not related to equipping gears) and just everything will be Level 50 and anyone can equip that gear no matter the champion points they have.

Or if the champion points will be the new 'levels', which I guess they will be.

It sounds pretty confusing to me but yeah we'll see what happens, not gonna pass a judgement just yet.

It does mean that if you have enough CP, all your alts can wear max level gear as soon as they hit 50.

Imagine doing coldharbour in v16 gear.

My concern is that if they start scaling all zones based of CP, you could be in bad shape if once you hit level 50, you don't craft level appropriate gear immediately.

WalkingLegacy

New shiny gear drops in DLC that raises CP.

Sword of Ridiculousness - requires level 50 & 460 champion points to equip.

^ this could be our future and I hate it very much

Acrolas

Vox wrote: »

how gear levels will work

They probably won't and it'll be the recipe crash patch all over again.

But I'm expecting something needlessly complicated and almost redundant. Like CP Rank 1, Levels 1-99, CP Rank 2, Levels 100-199, etc.

The one nice thing about VR is that it's simple. This much XP gets you this rank and this level of weapon. Then CP modifies certain things. The real complaint about VR is it's an artificial construct to extend the game through Silver/Gold while giving the illusion of progress. VR doesn't have to be removed. It just has to be scaled back such that the bulk of player progress after level 50 comes through game packs, not Silver/Gold.

But that's also messy as ***, too , so I'm expecting something needless complicated and almost redundant.

Desimator

This is always going to be a problem for ZoS

1. have dual leveling systems
- one for gear currently their Vet Rank system
- one for char attribute enhancement currently the Champion System

2. try and place it under the single umbrella of Champion point system requiring more points to equip stronger items?
- setting point barriers to gear of different strength making the gulf between a low lvl char and a high lvl char exponentially worse. this will probably lead to a worse imbalance than the champ system before the point cap

3. the use of champion Points to equip gear equip chest for 20cp thus creating a kind of barrier to equipping stronger gear but limiting the overall strength of the character equip top notch gear but have few points left for the champion tree however it turns out looking after the next patch --- and let me be the first to say this would be extremely unpopular


The truth of the matter is that regardless of the solution they choose that not everyone will be happy and I'm not sure ZoS even have it worked out as if they had any ideas of how to make it work why have the Vet System in the first place if as they said they always intended to remove it or was that one of those things that was not supposed to be released and once said they couldn't take back without losing face.

One things for sure a poorly executed transition if one occurs could see a lot of longer term players leave the game.

Tryxus

They should just keep gear at lvl 50 max since Champion Points shouldn't decide what gear we're going to wear, just the direction we're going to take our char to.

Plus without any new models for higher rank gear, the many gear sets we can craft or find as loot and the rarity of gold tempers I think gear is just going to become problematic and too much of a focus for ppl if it becomes CP based.

QuebraRegra

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

New shiny gear drops in DLC that raises CP.

Sword of Ridiculousness - requires level 50 & 460 champion points to equip.

^ this could be our future and I hate it very much

Allow me to correct this... CROWN STORE only items! LOL!

Great post

NewBlacksmurf

Desimator wrote: »

This is always going to be a problem for ZoS

1. have dual leveling systems
- one for gear currently their Vet Rank system
- one for char attribute enhancement currently the Champion System

2. try and place it under the single umbrella of Champion point system requiring more points to equip stronger items?
- setting point barriers to gear of different strength making the gulf between a low lvl char and a high lvl char exponentially worse. this will probably lead to a worse imbalance than the champ system before the point cap

3. the use of champion Points to equip gear equip chest for 20cp thus creating a kind of barrier to equipping stronger gear but limiting the overall strength of the character equip top notch gear but have few points left for the champion tree however it turns out looking after the next patch --- and let me be the first to say this would be extremely unpopular


The truth of the matter is that regardless of the solution they choose that not everyone will be happy and I'm not sure ZoS even have it worked out as if they had any ideas of how to make it work why have the Vet System in the first place if as they said they always intended to remove it or was that one of those things that was not supposed to be released and once said they couldn't take back without losing face.

One things for sure a poorly executed transition if one occurs could see a lot of longer term players leave the game.

I'm going off the path here but why on earth would ZOS do anything above level 50?

This is their chance to re-align everything into the 1-50 systems. Anything else regardless of how creative it is, will end up with massive complaints.

Just asking cause I read your points and like the logic your using

Voxicity

Tryxus wrote: »

They should just keep gear at lvl 50 max since Champion Points shouldn't decide what gear we're going to wear, just the direction we're going to take our char to.

Plus without any new models for higher rank gear, the many gear sets we can craft or find as loot and the rarity of gold tempers I think gear is just going to become problematic and too much of a focus for ppl if it becomes CP based.

This is what I was thinking and I totally agree.

dpencil

I am for the change and here's why:
MMOS are about character progression. There's no getting around it. There has to be some kind of continuing system to allow you to develop, whether that's levels, points, or whatever. And there are a couple big reasons why using champ points as opposed to more levels (vr ranks) is better. First, champ points are acount wide. This incentivizes alts and gives players more freedom to switch between various lvl 50 characters since they're all feeding into the same point pool. Second, the champ point catch up mechanic will keep the rate of reaching max champ points about the same when zos raises the champ point cap, which is vastly different from just adding more levels, pushing the bar to reach endgame status even further out. And let's not think that zos is going to make endgame gear that v16 players have or could get today out of reach when vet ranks drop. The cp to vr conversion, at least as it has been most recently discussed, actually brings v16 gear down to around v6. That is, my main just hit v8 and got to 160 cp around v6. So all in all, I think it makes alts much easier to develop without being forced to grind them all through all the content and general endgame much more accessible for everyone both in terms of scaling point progression and relatively low point requirements for endgame gear.

phbell

Everything I have read and heard... and continue to read and hear... makes it ever more certain that messing with the Vet ranking is a recipe for disaster. If crafting and weapon and armor is tied to a certain level of CP then my VR12 will be able to wear VR16 armor because I have 400+ CP. That is hardly fair.

I hear ZOS state that Vet rankings were always a temporary answer and that they are committed to eliminating them. However every solution offered sounds worse than what is presently in place. Character level is so deeply ingrained in the game that changing it will affect every aspect of the game. Perilous and needless undertaking IMHO.

Leaving the current system in place and moving forward will cost the fewest number of defections from the game.

cdobratz

Just to clear things up here, Rich gave an example that whenever the dlc raises the "vet rank" up to 18, the cp needed to wear that gear will be 180. It's not going to jump to CP 501 gear next dlc. Furthermore, with the cp catch up mechanism you will fly up in cp no problem. The point of ZOS removing veteran ranks is to make everything easier, so I wouldn't worry too much about this making your ESO life any harder.

NBrookus

Tryxus wrote: »

They should just keep gear at lvl 50 max since Champion Points shouldn't decide what gear we're going to wear, just the direction we're going to take our char

Imagine the torches and pitchforks from all the players that did the V16 material grind, only to have their gear nerfed back to level 50. Ouch.

It'd be better to raise the level cap to 65 (equivalent to V16) and then add CP. It's not perfect, but it'd be more clear to new players than the current veteran system, and still offers CP progression.

dpencil

The "back in my day" argument is useless. Do you get mad after buying a game at retail when they drop the price 6 months or a year later? You either deal with the situation you're in or walk away and come back later. You don't get to refuse life being made easier later on because it wasn't as easy before. It's now much easier to earn cp than it used to be. I haven't seen anyone whine about that. And if I did, I would think their attitude was selfish and immature. Devs should not be intimidated to make changes because of such attitudes existing.

NewBlacksmurf

NBrookus wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

They should just keep gear at lvl 50 max since Champion Points shouldn't decide what gear we're going to wear, just the direction we're going to take our char

Imagine the torches and pitchforks from all the players that did the V16 material grind, only to have their gear nerfed back to level 50. Ouch.

It'd be better to raise the level cap to 65 (equivalent to V16) and then add CP. It's not perfect, but it'd be more clear to new players than the current veteran system, and still offers CP progression.

I'm not sure this reads that existing gear falls back. The materials wouldn't leave so the VR 15- and VR16 material would cause that gear to still be better and the stats wouldn't go away either just the level restriction to wear it.

I don't follow why so many interpret it this way

Flameheart

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

New shiny gear drops in DLC that raises CP.

Sword of Ridiculousness - requires level 50 & 460 champion points to equip.

^ this could be our future and I hate it very much

I agree partially.

On the one hand I think that itemization for the next trials should be more worthwhile in compare to the crap that dropped in Craglorn trials.

On the other hand, I don't want that Zenimax enlarges the gear gap between crafted gear and drop gear too much as it might be the case in other MMOs for example.

If you have a considerable gear gap, the next step isn't far -> gated content. Beat instance 1 -> farm gear of instance 1 to be able to run instance 2 -> farm gear of instance 2 -> etc. If the trials and boss encounters are well made this might still be fun, but it won't be fun concerning the awful ESO RNG.

You should be still competitive in crafted gear. If you might be able to create crafted gear for different CP levels and therefore different lvls of power, the problem should be solved.

Dubhliam

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2553556/#Comment_2553556

My suggestion about how the gear should look after VR removal.
Will add the new idea to the original post.

NBrookus

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

They should just keep gear at lvl 50 max since Champion Points shouldn't decide what gear we're going to wear, just the direction we're going to take our char

Imagine the torches and pitchforks from all the players that did the V16 material grind, only to have their gear nerfed back to level 50. Ouch.

It'd be better to raise the level cap to 65 (equivalent to V16) and then add CP. It's not perfect, but it'd be more clear to new players than the current veteran system, and still offers CP progression.

I'm not sure this reads that existing gear falls back. The materials wouldn't leave so the VR 15- and VR16 material would cause that gear to still be better and the stats wouldn't go away either just the level restriction to wear it.

I don't follow why so many interpret it this way

I was responding to the post that suggested L50 gear with champion points not meaning anything gear-wise. That'd have to nerf the gear over L50.

I haven't seen anything from ZOS that suggests they are thinking of doing that; the CP gear seems odd but wouldn't roll back what anyone is wearing.

Zinaroth

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Paulington wrote: »

To quote from @ZOS_RichLambert the current thinking is that 1 VR = 10 CP in terms of gear, roughly. So current VR16 gear will require 160 CP to equip, for example.

However there will be gear with higher CP requirements, just speculating but they could make Trials drop ~300 CP gear for example.

We will see in the New Year, I believe ZOS will start talking about it more then. .

more CP @#*&?!?!? Oh it will be time to dump this game. Basing gear on CP is even worse than the VET system. trading one bad idea for another imbalance.

This is what we get when people complain about level requirements on gear. Too many single player ES players in this community who has never touched an MMO and thus do not understand the requirement for gated gear and content. There was really nothing wrong with VR level progression. If people thought ZOS was gonna get rid of level requirement on gear just because they QQed over VR levels then they really have no clue.

In any case ZOS has proven time over time again that while they are listening to player feedback and are willing to make numerical changes to the game based on that, they will never compromise their own ideology on how the game should be, no matter how flawed it is, and this really is a shame. Just because you're a developer it doesn't mean you always have the best design ideology when it comes to the game you're working on, within its certain aspects.

Skiserony

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

New shiny gear drops in DLC that raises CP.

Sword of Ridiculousness - requires level 50 & 460 champion points to equip.

^ this could be our future and I hate it very much

I wouldn't necessarily hate this, if the differences between 160CP gear wouldn't be that huge. As long it doesn't give a big advantage I wouldn't mind.

OmniDevil

Zinaroth wrote: »

This is what we get when people complain about level requirements on gear. Too many single player ES players in this community who has never touched an MMO and thus do not understand the requirement for gated gear and content. There was really nothing wrong with VR level progression. If people thought ZOS was gonna get rid of level requirement on gear just because they QQed over VR levels then they really have no clue.

In any case ZOS has proven time over time again that while they are listening to player feedback and are willing to make numerical changes to the game based on that, they will never compromise their own ideology on how the game should be, no matter how flawed it is, and this really is a shame. Just because you're a developer it doesn't mean you always have the best design ideology when it comes to the game you're working on, within its certain aspects.

So very true. I've never played an MMO in my looooooooooong gaming history where all my hard earned gear from long hours of grinding and raiding was suddenly made trash by a level cap increase and new gear to replace it.

I'm a really casual player, no more than 1 to 2 hours every other weeknight, a little over 8 hours on the weekend. At this point, I have 300 CP without grinding and will have more once I get my 3rd toon to v16. Even if the CP requirement was really high, I don't see obtaining that high amount too difficult or too long.

In regards to ZOS devs, the same can be said for devs from other MMOs. They "listen" (or pretend to), but they'll only ever stick with changes that fit into their design and, more often than not, those changes never make any sense nor were they needed/wanted.