Should Alliance Points be earned in the first five zones of Player Factions (Please Read)

michaelarryn

Hello,

I understand that the PvE community feathers are a little ruffled, because PvP players will soon be able to buy monster helms and shoulders with Alliance Points. On the flip side, there are many players that strictly want to play just PvP. With that being said, there are also just as many PvE players who never set foot in Cyrodiil. I think I have come up with a solution to keep all parties happy.

If ZoS is to be completely fair, they should introduce daily quests in the five starter zones of each faction that would allow players to earn AP. One thing that I've discussed with several people and they seemed to like the idea is that players should scale down in lower level zones (similar to Guild Wars 2) to maybe a level or two above the highest mob in that area. I mean, one does not simply one shot Daedra, he simply gets better at killing them. This would allow for these dailies to be challenging and these quests should somehow reflect the war in Cyrodiil (capturing an opposing faction spy, stopping an opposing faction siege, etc.) While typing this I realize the potential in the game by doing this- it would allow for more repeatability in zones and a balanced community for both PvE and PvP players. ZoS could even take notes from the success of Wrothgar and make some dailies require group members in order to be completed.

This idea could make both PvE and PvP players happy and I hope to hear feedback from the community or even suggestions to my idea. What do you guys think?

vaagventje17eb17_ESO

No! (Please provide feedback)

no, for the simple reason that cyrodiil is already crowded enough, we dont need every little lowlevel who wants some quick ap, taking up the population cap for people who do wanna help the campaign.

make a cyrodiil map without pvp combat for all the people who want to quest for alliance points, but please dont give people more encouragement to come to cyrodiil and not pvp, its not the place. and specially nerfing for the pvp players since they wil fill up the population cap. and its just sad to see a full population cap, but only 10 players defending your keep, to just give a example, but please no.

michaelarryn

Yes, your idea is great!

vaagventje17eb17_ESO wrote: »

no, for the simple reason that cyrodiil is already crowded enough, we dont need every little lowlevel who wants some quick ap, taking up the population cap for people who do wanna help the campaign.

make a cyrodiil map without pvp combat for all the people who want to quest for alliance points, but please dont give people more encouragement to come to cyrodiil and not pvp, its not the place. and specially nerfing for the pvp players since they wil fill up the population cap. and its just sad to see a full population cap, but only 10 players defending your keep, to just give a example, but please no.

It wouldn't be in Cyrodiil, it would be in the five alliance zones of your faction. The whole point is giving zones more playability.

vaagventje17eb17_ESO

No! (Please provide feedback)

michaelarryn wrote: »

vaagventje17eb17_ESO wrote: »

no, for the simple reason that cyrodiil is already crowded enough, we dont need every little lowlevel who wants some quick ap, taking up the population cap for people who do wanna help the campaign.

make a cyrodiil map without pvp combat for all the people who want to quest for alliance points, but please dont give people more encouragement to come to cyrodiil and not pvp, its not the place. and specially nerfing for the pvp players since they wil fill up the population cap. and its just sad to see a full population cap, but only 10 players defending your keep, to just give a example, but please no.

It wouldn't be in Cyrodiil, it would be in the five alliance zones of your faction. The whole point is giving zones more playability.

wel would be better, but still gonna have to disagree, the game is easy enough as it is, and people need stuff from the aliance rank skill tree, so they have to pvp, if the pvp players want gear or items, or master staffs or vmsa loot, they have to pve, this is the trade off we got. you idea has a point, but you need a solution to do it the other way around to to make it fair.
toss up a idea on how to help the pvp players in the same way with pve gear and stuff. then lets get the ball rolling

kenpachi480

vaagventje17eb17_ESO wrote: »

michaelarryn wrote: »

vaagventje17eb17_ESO wrote: »

no, for the simple reason that cyrodiil is already crowded enough, we dont need every little lowlevel who wants some quick ap, taking up the population cap for people who do wanna help the campaign.

make a cyrodiil map without pvp combat for all the people who want to quest for alliance points, but please dont give people more encouragement to come to cyrodiil and not pvp, its not the place. and specially nerfing for the pvp players since they wil fill up the population cap. and its just sad to see a full population cap, but only 10 players defending your keep, to just give a example, but please no.

It wouldn't be in Cyrodiil, it would be in the five alliance zones of your faction. The whole point is giving zones more playability.

wel would be better, but still gonna have to disagree, the game is easy enough as it is, and people need stuff from the aliance rank skill tree, so they have to pvp, if the pvp players want gear or items, or master staffs or vmsa loot, they have to pve, this is the trade off we got. you idea has a point, but you need a solution to do it the other way around to to make it fair.
toss up a idea on how to help the pvp players in the same way with pve gear and stuff. then lets get the ball rolling

bro,. you either not reading OP, or your comprehension skill is lacking (sorry for the insult

he said that pvp players can soon buy with the new changes PVE gear with their AP,. this is for the people who only play PVE not fair, so he proposes AP quest in PVE ZONES,. got it

myrrrorb14_ESO

No! (Please provide feedback)

Alternative ways to earn AP would be cool. But it should be in a PvP area.

My suggestion is to add PvE quests in Cyrodiil that give bonuses to your faction and of course AP for you!

As an example: Capture enemy supplies. Have a small quest chain that awards your Alliance 5% damage for 30 minutes. Have up to two stack.

You can have a chain for just about everything. Max stats, regen, resist, whatever.

robkrush

No! (Please provide feedback)

Do you PVE guys realize that with your maxed out PVE gear you'll do ok in cyrodiil. Get a few of you guys together and you can prolly beat of the quest gankers too.

Im sorry, but you are missing a huge, and very fun, part of the game by stubbornly refusing to go to cyrodiil. I say man up, group up, and go to cyrodiil if you want AP.

Sausage

No! (Please provide feedback)

No, dailies are no good, sure new players with full of energy wants to log in every day, when they are literally excited, but in the long run it hurts the game. Best solution is that we play a ton when DLCs comes and while waiting DLCs, players play less, or do some less meaninful stuff like Achievements. Introduce Vet-Points what are gained by doing vet-content, so that should keep PVEers busy. PVPers grind APs and PVEers Vet-points. Population is going down, streamlining is needed.

vaagventje17eb17_ESO

No! (Please provide feedback)

kenpachi480 wrote: »

vaagventje17eb17_ESO wrote: »

michaelarryn wrote: »

vaagventje17eb17_ESO wrote: »

no, for the simple reason that cyrodiil is already crowded enough, we dont need every little lowlevel who wants some quick ap, taking up the population cap for people who do wanna help the campaign.

make a cyrodiil map without pvp combat for all the people who want to quest for alliance points, but please dont give people more encouragement to come to cyrodiil and not pvp, its not the place. and specially nerfing for the pvp players since they wil fill up the population cap. and its just sad to see a full population cap, but only 10 players defending your keep, to just give a example, but please no.

It wouldn't be in Cyrodiil, it would be in the five alliance zones of your faction. The whole point is giving zones more playability.

wel would be better, but still gonna have to disagree, the game is easy enough as it is, and people need stuff from the aliance rank skill tree, so they have to pvp, if the pvp players want gear or items, or master staffs or vmsa loot, they have to pve, this is the trade off we got. you idea has a point, but you need a solution to do it the other way around to to make it fair.
toss up a idea on how to help the pvp players in the same way with pve gear and stuff. then lets get the ball rolling

bro,. you either not reading OP, or your comprehension skill is lacking (sorry for the insult

he said that pvp players can soon buy with the new changes PVE gear with their AP,. this is for the people who only play PVE not fair, so he proposes AP quest in PVE ZONES,. got it

iam reading ap, and please dont call me bro. not all gear will be buyable, and not all stuff will either, so just becasue we can buy it with our ap, doesnt help for all the other stuff, the pvp players are not getting, for the players who only play pvp there is alot more not fair that iam not even gonna list here, iam trying to say, even the playing field first, instead of bringing 1 solution, bring a solution that solves it for both parties completly, soe more detail a more tought true idea for both sides, becasue we all know that a 1 sides statement wont get you anywhere on this forum, you need a all around idea, to get the attention of the developers, and iam trying to get him to thik it true, you are missing my point, think this better true, and then lets get it to some developers. but a idea as simple as this, wil just get moved down in to the forum and lost forever like this idea has gone over and over before over the past 2 years. so just this ones, add to it. this aint the first time we heard this idea. but i do hope it wil be the last and somethign wil come out of it.

Draxys

No! (Please provide feedback)

Skill lines and gear are two very different things. While it is easier to grind up undaunted for passives, giving alliance ranks without earning them in pvp is a poor solution.

michaelarryn

Yes, your idea is great!

robkrush wrote: »

Do you PVE guys realize that with your maxed out PVE gear you'll do ok in cyrodiil. Get a few of you guys together and you can prolly beat of the quest gankers too.

Im sorry, but you are missing a huge, and very fun, part of the game by stubbornly refusing to go to cyrodiil. I say man up, group up, and go to cyrodiil if you want AP.

I PvP however in every game there are both PvE and PvP players. ZoS gave players a preview of their idea a few weeks back that would allow PvP players to gain PvE equipment by only playing in Cyrodil. There already exists an entire grind fest of a skill line for PvP players and now they don't even have to step foot in a dungeon in a month or so. There legitamately are players who have PvP (not just in Cyrodiil but in every game) and will not play it at all. These players should have access to skill trees and content just as easily as PvP players. I'm hearing alot of feedback from PvP players, just wondering if PvE players views' differ from the majority.

CavalierPrime

Yes, your idea is great!

Yes this is great because its both a common sense solution to a common problem (pve players cant get pvp skills) with the added flavor that Alliance Points are earned in your Alliance Zones. Plus it makes the zones relevant again. The last time I was in a pve city besides Mournhold or Orsinium was over a month ago.

robkrush

No! (Please provide feedback)

michaelarryn wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

Do you PVE guys realize that with your maxed out PVE gear you'll do ok in cyrodiil. Get a few of you guys together and you can prolly beat of the quest gankers too.

Im sorry, but you are missing a huge, and very fun, part of the game by stubbornly refusing to go to cyrodiil. I say man up, group up, and go to cyrodiil if you want AP.

I PvP however in every game there are both PvE and PvP players. ZoS gave players a preview of their idea a few weeks back that would allow PvP players to gain PvE equipment by only playing in Cyrodil. There already exists an entire grind fest of a skill line for PvP players and now they don't even have to step foot in a dungeon in a month or so. There legitamately are players who have PvP (not just in Cyrodiil but in every game) and will not play it at all. These players should have access to skill trees and content just as easily as PvP players. I'm hearing alot of feedback from PvP players, just wondering if PvE players views' differ from the majority.

I am a pvp and pve player. I don't agree with giving monster helms to venders(fix the rng tho). I don't agree with letting pve guys get AP any other way than pvp. If YOU make a choice to only play pvp or pve then you miss out on the other parts of the game. They will bastardize this game to a laughable level if they cater to everyones special needs.

Draxys

No! (Please provide feedback)

robkrush wrote: »

michaelarryn wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

Do you PVE guys realize that with your maxed out PVE gear you'll do ok in cyrodiil. Get a few of you guys together and you can prolly beat of the quest gankers too.

Im sorry, but you are missing a huge, and very fun, part of the game by stubbornly refusing to go to cyrodiil. I say man up, group up, and go to cyrodiil if you want AP.

I PvP however in every game there are both PvE and PvP players. ZoS gave players a preview of their idea a few weeks back that would allow PvP players to gain PvE equipment by only playing in Cyrodil. There already exists an entire grind fest of a skill line for PvP players and now they don't even have to step foot in a dungeon in a month or so. There legitamately are players who have PvP (not just in Cyrodiil but in every game) and will not play it at all. These players should have access to skill trees and content just as easily as PvP players. I'm hearing alot of feedback from PvP players, just wondering if PvE players views' differ from the majority.

They will bastardize this game to a laughable level if they cater to everyones special needs.

Plenty of that has already happened :'(

robkrush

No! (Please provide feedback)

Draxys wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

michaelarryn wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

Do you PVE guys realize that with your maxed out PVE gear you'll do ok in cyrodiil. Get a few of you guys together and you can prolly beat of the quest gankers too.

Im sorry, but you are missing a huge, and very fun, part of the game by stubbornly refusing to go to cyrodiil. I say man up, group up, and go to cyrodiil if you want AP.

I PvP however in every game there are both PvE and PvP players. ZoS gave players a preview of their idea a few weeks back that would allow PvP players to gain PvE equipment by only playing in Cyrodil. There already exists an entire grind fest of a skill line for PvP players and now they don't even have to step foot in a dungeon in a month or so. There legitamately are players who have PvP (not just in Cyrodiil but in every game) and will not play it at all. These players should have access to skill trees and content just as easily as PvP players. I'm hearing alot of feedback from PvP players, just wondering if PvE players views' differ from the majority.

They will bastardize this game to a laughable level if they cater to everyones special needs.

Plenty of that has already happened :'(

Agreed.

Kidgangster101

Yes, your idea is great!

I say it should be allowed. I do both PVE and PVP in this game. I am a huge fan of this game love everything about it (except no text chat...... on consoles) but I think since they made the announcement about the vendors selling PVE gear they should give the PVE players something in return.

A simple solution could be quests you can do or area bosses in each zone you need multiple players to beat and you get AP for doing so.

On the flip side they should allow the delve bosses in cyrodil slowly raise Undaunted by putting a quest giver in cyrodil (similar to the undaunted missions except no key reward where there would be 2 dailys to go kill for undaunted skill line)

And I know people are gonna say no but what they could do is make both of these alternate methods gain very slow AP/undaunted skill line since it is not taking away from the 2 undaunted dailys or killing in cyrodil.

Example- world boss equals like 3 player kills since you need a group of people to kill the zone boss and would only be able to do 5 or 6 a day (not really much progression in the skill line but an alternative)

and for undaunted the 2 daily missions could be worth like 1/4 of the normal xp gain on undaunted.

This is just my thoughts but there is nothing worse than being forced to play something you really hate. (so many people are turned off from pve cause they like only pvp and some players hate pvp because they get ganked or cant join a zerg so it is not appealing at all.)

Sallington

No! (Please provide feedback)

"If ZoS is to be completely fair"

They ARE being completely fair!!! You can buy the helms with gold, which PvP players don't make.

PvP currency: AP
PvE currency: Gold

WalkingLegacy

No! (Please provide feedback)

No.

If you want it, go PvP.

If I want PvE stuff I go do PvE stuff.

gw2only1b14_ESO

No! (Please provide feedback)

No, its easy to obtain if you really really want it . and PvP is the zone to earn/ rewarded with it

Zorrashi

No! (Please provide feedback)

PvP rewards should require that you PvP

Sithisvoid

No! (Please provide feedback)

Nope. Come into pvp so we can kill you, good day sir.

DaveMoeDee

No! (Please provide feedback)

I would love to have more AP and be able to unlock more skills, but, no, AP is for PvP zones.

The current setup is already fair. We can all do the same things to earn AP. That is fair.

Pandering to people's wanting to get AP the way they want has nothing to do with being fair. Next we will see people complaining that they just craft and play economy simulator in ESO and they too should be able to get AP doing what they like.

"Fair" as a basis of evaluation is typically incredibly crappy because people can come up with countless criteria for deciding if they find something fair. It regularly just devolves into "not what I want".

NBrookus

No! (Please provide feedback)

I think there is currently a large imbalance between the effort it takes PvE players to get alliance skills and PvP players to get Undaunted skills; an imbalance that should be addressed as long as major skills like the only effective stamina based heal are locked behind PvP. I got Undaunted 9 after doing about 25-30 dungeons. That many hours in PvP and I barely have Warhorn.

But I don't think this kind of daily in a PvE zone is the answer. We do have dailies that offer AP: scouting missions in Cyrodil. They pay crap for AP but they are fairly safe if you skirt any current battlezones.

Maybe the real solution is just to move Vigor into another skill tree. None of the other PvP skill are particularly important in PvE.

Autolycus

No! (Please provide feedback)

Adding a vendor that sells monster helms is not a good solution to begin with. The appropriate course of action, in my opinion of course, would simply be to change the gear from Bind on Pickup to either Bind on Group or Bind on Equip.

The drop rates aren't horrible. They are still a little low, sure, but with a Bind on Group feature, you will find far fewer complaints from people who don't want to spend that much time in PvE. It would only take one individual in the party of four to get that piece of gear, effectively lessening the grind to 1/4 of what it is currently.

If, in contrast, items in IC, WGT, Wrothgar, etc. become Bind on Equip, not only do you enable PvP-exclusive players the opportunity to purchase said gear without having to do content which they prefer not to do, but you also solve another current issue in ESO, which is the lack of gold-making opportunities in PvE content. Currently, there are a very limited number of avenues that a PvE-exclusive player can utilize to earn gold, being primarily through materials, tempers, and motifs (some of which are incredibly easy to obtain, and others so difficult they might as well be impossible). In contrast, as a PvP-exclusive player, all you have to do is play the game as usual, buy an Akaviri motif, and Cha-Ching! Have a couple hundred thousand gold.

Alliance points are useless for someone who never steps foot into Cyrodiil. Adding AP to the beginner zones will not accomplish anything, or resolve the issue in question. I understand the logic behind the idea, and it's not inherently a bad idea. It just does not resolve the issue effectively or efficiently.

Autolycus

No! (Please provide feedback)

NBrookus wrote: »

I think there is currently a large imbalance between the effort it takes PvE players to get alliance skills and PvP players to get Undaunted skills; an imbalance that should be addressed as long as major skills like the only effective stamina based heal are locked behind PvP. I got Undaunted 9 after doing about 25-30 dungeons. That many hours in PvP and I barely have Warhorn.

But I don't think this kind of daily in a PvE zone is the answer. We do have dailies that offer AP: scouting missions in Cyrodil. They pay crap for AP but they are fairly safe if you skirt any current battlezones.

Maybe the real solution is just to move Vigor into another skill tree. None of the other PvP skill are particularly important in PvE.

I agree with the vast majority of this. I would just add one point at the end, noting that vigor is not the only useful PvE skill, and as such, your argument is even stronger. Caltrops and Magicka Det, for example, are incredibly useful in a wide variety of PvE scenarios.

PBpsy

Yes, your idea is great!

Alliance skill lines should be account bound or they should stop working outside Cyrodil or they should be removed entirely or made free for all. I have PVPed enough to unlock all that crap on two characters but will certainly not do it again on my stam NB or my stamplar.This basically means I will not be touching those two characters again. I have lost interest in this game's idiotic pvp lagfest some 16 month ago and I will not deal with it anymore.

ZOS should spend more time making sure the various activities in the game are fun instead of ways to force player into grinds around those activities. Their awesome clever idea was to force crafting on every damn character because leveling up crafting is so fun you should do it 8 times.

sylviermoone

No! (Please provide feedback)

I have to say no to this.

AP is earned by PvPing.
Undaunted is ranked up by completing pledges and dungeon achievements.

In order to rank up these skills, players need to do that content. Allowing for gear to be purchased is not anywhere near the same as allowing skills to be ranked up (or purchased) outside of the content they were designed for.

PvP equipment and Akaviri motifs are transferable. Monster helms are BoP, thus not transferable. Allowing for gear to be purchasable is actually a step to equalize the system.

Sure, a PvPer can now purchase some equipment. But in order to rank up the undaunted skill line, they still need to run the pledges.

PvE players can purchase equipment and motifs from PvP players, but should still need to play PvP to rank up the skill lines associated with that content.

Adding this equipment to the PvP vendors is "fair" by the current system. Allowing for skill lines to be purchased or ranked up in other ways is not.

Edit: spelling

DaveMoeDee

No! (Please provide feedback)

Autolycus wrote: »

Adding a vendor that sells monster helms is not a good solution to begin with. The appropriate course of action, in my opinion of course, would simply be to change the gear from Bind on Pickup to either Bind on Group or Bind on Equip.

The drop rates aren't horrible. They are still a little low, sure, but with a Bind on Group feature, you will find far fewer complaints from people who don't want to spend that much time in PvE. It would only take one individual in the party of four to get that piece of gear, effectively lessening the grind to 1/4 of what it is currently.

If, in contrast, items in IC, WGT, Wrothgar, etc. become Bind on Equip, not only do you enable PvP-exclusive players the opportunity to purchase said gear without having to do content which they prefer not to do, but you also solve another current issue in ESO, which is the lack of gold-making opportunities in PvE content. Currently, there are a very limited number of avenues that a PvE-exclusive player can utilize to earn gold, being primarily through materials, tempers, and motifs (some of which are incredibly easy to obtain, and others so difficult they might as well be impossible). In contrast, as a PvP-exclusive player, all you have to do is play the game as usual, buy an Akaviri motif, and Cha-Ching! Have a couple hundred thousand gold.

Alliance points are useless for someone who never steps foot into Cyrodiil. Adding AP to the beginner zones will not accomplish anything, or resolve the issue in question. I understand the logic behind the idea, and it's not inherently a bad idea. It just does not resolve the issue effectively or efficiently.

Agreed, just getting AP has limited value.

But leveling alliance skill trees does have value. A lot of value. And it also takes forever.

UltimaJoe777

You will be able to buy those set items with Gold too ya know...

Necrelios

Yes, your idea is great!

vaagventje17eb17_ESO wrote: »

no, for the simple reason that cyrodiil is already crowded enough, we dont need every little lowlevel who wants some quick ap, taking up the population cap for people who do wanna help the campaign.

make a cyrodiil map without pvp combat for all the people who want to quest for alliance points, but please dont give people more encouragement to come to cyrodiil and not pvp, its not the place. and specially nerfing for the pvp players since they wil fill up the population cap. and its just sad to see a full population cap, but only 10 players defending your keep, to just give a example, but please no.

Nowhere in the OP's post did they mention any of this taking place in Cyrodiil. The first five alliance zones they are talking about are actually outside of Cyrodiil. What they propose is that doing those quests award AP INSTEAD of having to go to Cyrodiil so this would benefit you based on what you are saying.

CyrusArya

No! (Please provide feedback)

Absolutely not. Have been avoiding this discussion but you people won't give it a rest. First of all, I'm totally against any instance of 'scaling down'. Scaling up is fine but never will I be ok with a maxed out character being reduced artificially for the sake of your immersion.

Moving on to the alliance skills, I don't say this lightly: the demands of you carebears are getting out of hand. And I really don't throw that term around loosely as I have great respect for most PvE players. Just not the ones who demand the game be fundamentally changed to cater to them personally. No to passive cyrodiil, no to alliance skills outside cyrodiil. For some reason you guys can't seem to grasp that skills and items are fundamentally different. I have no issue with PvP only items being available through PvE means. But skills are frankly the main reward for PvP. Should PvP and the time invested into it not yield any special rewards? Before someone replies implying that monster sets are the single most important thing one will ever get out of PvE, realize that in theory, people will have had to do hundreds of hours of PvE to have a viable v16 in the first place. 95% of progression is locked behind PvE and that is the main incentive for it, not friggen monster sets. And yet you guys can't stand literally 3 or 4 important skills being locked behind PvP, giving PvP some meaning and value to character progression. Unbelievable. But this brings me to my next and most important point.

It is absolutely in ZOS' interest for their player base to try out and get hooked on every aspect of this game. PvP and PvE both. That's why it is in their interest to have vested and unique incentives in each aspect of the game. What is so hard to understand about this simple concept? For every single person who too is terrified or too stubborn to do a few weeks of PvP to get their vigor, caltrops, and proxy det....there are hundreds who will try PvP for the first time in pursuit of these skills and then get hooked and stay there because PvP is the most fun thing ever. That's why this system shouldn't change, deal with it.

PvP and PvE should both be of substance to the player. Period. To master ESO one should have to master both aspects of the game, and I am firmly against the idea that someone should be able to have a optimized and fully progressed character despite ignoring a core aspect of the game. I'm only gonna say this one time: play how you want to play does NOT mean you should be able to have an optimized character on your terms.