Is Overload a balanced Ultimate?

Strider_Roshin

No

Instant wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

In PvE? I can get really close to the dps that overload sorcerers do without having to spend 1k ultimate.
In PVP? Most stamblades hit harder with their surprise attack lol.

Not even close. Your delusional if you think surprise attack does comparable damage.

I haven't seen a single sorc hitting me with a 10k overload attack yet. Surprise attack on the other hand often hits for 8-9k.

Typical damage range of surprise attack in Cyrodiil: 3 - 4,500

Typical damage of overload: 6 - 11k

Now I have never gotten hit that hard by surprise attack and I fight Nightblades with 5k+ weapon damage and 70%+ weapon crit so how do you explain that one?

Strider_Roshin

No

The numbers I have were from my Nord Nightblade btw with 6 pieces medium, 1 piece heavy. Haven't done too much PvP with my sorc yet

Instant

Yes

http://imgur.com/iKnQcCu

RAGUNAnoOne

No

Xsorus wrote: »

Imagine if werewolf was a toggle, would it be balanced?
That should tell ya if overload is balanced or not

If it was a toggle then overload would be more balanced right now in PvP WW unless i is an amazing one is less effective than sorcs overload. if other ults had a toggle especially if they gave access to a 3rd ability bar then it would be balanced.

Strider_Roshin

No

Instant wrote: »

http://imgur.com/iKnQcCu

Then you're geared horribly. My Nightblade has an equal amount of physical and spell resistance with all impenetrable, and I never get hit that hard. You're probably using full light and no impenetrable. Which would explain why physical damage hits hard against you. My resistances are equal so I see the damage difference from a balanced perspective. Being in full light, physical is going to hit you a lot harder than any magicka attack. It's due to how you're built.

Digerati

No

I have a stamina sorc and it kinda sucks to pop lightning hands and blast things for way more damage than my bow can hope to do...

Not that I don't like it, I love it. it's so strong, unmatched.

Nifty2g

No

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

overload ~ 10k dmg non crit on v16
DK whipe ~ 17k dmg non crit on v16

So overload is good for sustain but useless in other cases if you need burst meteor is much better.

lol wat
did that person have overload on his staff bar or sword bar?

5 Julianos, 2 Kena, 3 willpower, 1 maelstrom staff, 2 torug swords

try using overload with that set up and you'll see how unbalanced it is. Not sure if I'd go as far as saying it's unbalanced in PvP because it's been toned down so much with the latest update but before the battle leveling changes were around Overload was a big issue. Now most sorcs are too scared to use it as it's reflected or dodged very easily

But for PvE it needs some balancing

Instant

Yes

Yup, i have 16k armor and 22k spell res but even if i had more armor it would not have been reduced to a 4.5k surprise attack.

Derra

No

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Overload isnt balanced in the sense of the word.

However, magicka sorcs would be dealing around 16k dps without Overload and the option to store 1000 ultimate.

The entire Sorcerer class skill line has to be redesigned before Overload gets changed

Well i do get around ~20k singletarget dps without overload - but thats on very stationary fights (once you loose liquid lightning + elemental blockade extra dmg)

You´re right. Currently sorcs depend on overload to be competetive in pve because everything else at their disposal is not up to par.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

In PvE? I can get really close to the dps that overload sorcerers do without having to spend 1k ultimate.
In PVP? Most stamblades hit harder with their surprise attack lol.

Not even close. Your delusional if you think surprise attack does comparable damage.

I haven't seen a single sorc hitting me with a 10k overload attack yet. Surprise attack on the other hand often hits for 8-9k.

Typical damage range of surprise attack in Cyrodiil: 3 - 4,500

Typical damage of overload: 6 - 11k

Now I have never gotten hit that hard by surprise attack and I fight Nightblades with 5k+ weapon damage and 70%+ weapon crit so how do you explain that one?

I´ve hit for 15k overload crits but i´ve been hit for 13k suprise attack out of batswarm aswell (no sneak bonus two consecutive hits).

3k to 4.5k is really on the low end of the spectrum (just as 4 to 5k would be for overload) - both is most likely not a crit.

Nifty2g

No

Instant wrote: »

Yup, i have 16k armor and 22k spell res but even if i had more armor it would not have been reduced to a 4.5k surprise attack.

Look at your screenshot in more depth and how certain skills work
AMBUSH: Also grants you Empower, increasing damage of your next attack by 20%.
I'm not saying it's balanced but you got hit by an Empowered Surprise Attack, so that's why the damage was 9000. If you didn't die you'd see the base damage when he would use it on you after that dawnbreaker which would've been around 5,000 - 7,000

Instant

Yes

Nifty2g wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

Yup, i have 16k armor and 22k spell res but even if i had more armor it would not have been reduced to a 4.5k surprise attack.

Look at your screenshot in more depth and how certain skills work
AMBUSH: Also grants you Empower, increasing damage of your next attack by 20%.
I'm not saying it's balanced but you got hit by an Empowered Surprise Attack, so that's why the damage was 9000. If you didn't die you'd see the base damage when he would use it on you after that dawnbreaker which would've been around 5,000 - 7,000

Yes it is empowered, and?

Nifty2g

No

Instant wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

Yup, i have 16k armor and 22k spell res but even if i had more armor it would not have been reduced to a 4.5k surprise attack.

Look at your screenshot in more depth and how certain skills work
AMBUSH: Also grants you Empower, increasing damage of your next attack by 20%.
I'm not saying it's balanced but you got hit by an Empowered Surprise Attack, so that's why the damage was 9000. If you didn't die you'd see the base damage when he would use it on you after that dawnbreaker which would've been around 5,000 - 7,000

Yes it is empowered, and?

Instant wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

In PvE? I can get really close to the dps that overload sorcerers do without having to spend 1k ultimate.
In PVP? Most stamblades hit harder with their surprise attack lol.

Not even close. Your delusional if you think surprise attack does comparable damage.

I haven't seen a single sorc hitting me with a 10k overload attack yet. Surprise attack on the other hand often hits for 8-9k.

You seem to be trying to argue over a skill that has been buffed, most skills that have been buffed with Empower are going to hit hard if a players goal is to burst you down.

Instant

Yes

Nifty2g wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

Yup, i have 16k armor and 22k spell res but even if i had more armor it would not have been reduced to a 4.5k surprise attack.

Look at your screenshot in more depth and how certain skills work
AMBUSH: Also grants you Empower, increasing damage of your next attack by 20%.
I'm not saying it's balanced but you got hit by an Empowered Surprise Attack, so that's why the damage was 9000. If you didn't die you'd see the base damage when he would use it on you after that dawnbreaker which would've been around 5,000 - 7,000

Yes it is empowered, and?

Instant wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

In PvE? I can get really close to the dps that overload sorcerers do without having to spend 1k ultimate.
In PVP? Most stamblades hit harder with their surprise attack lol.

Not even close. Your delusional if you think surprise attack does comparable damage.

I haven't seen a single sorc hitting me with a 10k overload attack yet. Surprise attack on the other hand often hits for 8-9k.

You seem to be trying to argue over a skill that has been buffed, most skills that have been buffed with Empower are going to hit hard if a players goal is to burst you down.

It is so easy to get the empower it really doesn't matter imo. But anyway, if thats your problem than please take the light attack into account as well. That's an additional 3.5k damage you won't get as an overload sorc because you can't weave in overload mode.

Strider_Roshin

No

Derra wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Overload isnt balanced in the sense of the word.

However, magicka sorcs would be dealing around 16k dps without Overload and the option to store 1000 ultimate.

The entire Sorcerer class skill line has to be redesigned before Overload gets changed

Well i do get around ~20k singletarget dps without overload - but thats on very stationary fights (once you loose liquid lightning + elemental blockade extra dmg)

You´re right. Currently sorcs depend on overload to be competetive in pve because everything else at their disposal is not up to par.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

In PvE? I can get really close to the dps that overload sorcerers do without having to spend 1k ultimate.
In PVP? Most stamblades hit harder with their surprise attack lol.

Not even close. Your delusional if you think surprise attack does comparable damage.

I haven't seen a single sorc hitting me with a 10k overload attack yet. Surprise attack on the other hand often hits for 8-9k.

Typical damage range of surprise attack in Cyrodiil: 3 - 4,500

Typical damage of overload: 6 - 11k

Now I have never gotten hit that hard by surprise attack and I fight Nightblades with 5k+ weapon damage and 70%+ weapon crit so how do you explain that one?

I´ve hit for 15k overload crits but i´ve been hit for 13k suprise attack out of batswarm aswell (no sneak bonus two consecutive hits).

3k to 4.5k is really on the low end of the spectrum (just as 4 to 5k would be for overload) - both is most likely not a crit.

Not really, keep in mind I'm a Nord and I run full impenetrable. A wrecking Blow with empowered, critting does at most 7,500 to me.

DHale

Yes

We have got to stop with the nerf thread dialogue. I know with absolute certainty at least two people who have asked for nerfs in the above posts are wrecking blow spammers. You hit much harder than any overload light attack. The sad fact is If you have any kind of spell resist or have points in hardy or elemental defender overload light attacks might as well be ..... Light attacks. It's very easy to mitigate magic damage. Also it is easy to dodge and slow even when it's tab targeted. It misses as much as it hits. It is useful in pve and helps with dungeon bosses. If you want all these abilities nerfed play a sorc or just put on scales if you are a dk or defensive posture as I do with my Templar. You could even run harness magic to mitigate the damage... Truth is you want to build a build where no ability or skill does more damage than you do or can. You want to prepare for builds you like playing against and call for nerfs in builds you don't. It's sad and I am glad for once that you will get bored of being Rekt all the time and move to the next Skyrim where no one else will out play you.

FriedEggSandwich

No

DHale wrote: »

We have got to stop with the nerf thread dialogue. I know with absolute certainty at least two people who have asked for nerfs in the above posts are wrecking blow spammers. You hit much harder than any overload light attack. The sad fact is If you have any kind of spell resist or have points in hardy or elemental defender overload light attacks might as well be ..... Light attacks. It's very easy to mitigate magic damage. Also it is easy to dodge and slow even when it's tab targeted. It misses as much as it hits. It is useful in pve and helps with dungeon bosses. If you want all these abilities nerfed play a sorc or just put on scales if you are a dk or defensive posture as I do with my Templar. You could even run harness magic to mitigate the damage... Truth is you want to build a build where no ability or skill does more damage than you do or can. You want to prepare for builds you like playing against and call for nerfs in builds you don't. It's sad and I am glad for once that you will get bored of being Rekt all the time and move to the next Skyrim where no one else will out play you.

Many of the players voting no in this thread main a sorc.

Joy_Division

No

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I don´t think it´s balanced right now - though i don´t have an issue with it because of how much ultimate you can store but the third skillbar (on which you can slot a different ultimate ) and the utility you get with that.

However it´s the last sorc ultimate i´m using personally because attro and negate are just utterly useless. The sorc class needs some work and i´m against nerfing overload in any form until we see the ability changes in the next patch.

Why is atro useless? 1v1 it's useless cos players just move out of range. It's great for group play though; riot control, confusion, LoS behind it etc.

Edit: also I wasn't aware you could slot another ultimate on your overload bar. Tried it several patches ago and it wouldn't let me. If you managed to slot another ultimate on your overload bar how would you activate it? Surely hitting 'r' would just toggle overload off?

When I see one placed (if ever) it is so easy to ignore. You can knock it down, stun it, silence it or just flat out kill it. When there are a large number of enemies around the outgoing dps is more than enough to clear it from the field before it can do much of anything, not to mention it derps up all the time and spends more time focusing on new targets than attacking.

Back on the subject of overload. Back when they buffed the light attacks by 50% they (zos) originally were going to remove the gcd that was placed on each light attack, but chose to keep the ability clunky and boring but compensated with the damage we see now. Would people have prefered no delay between each attack as opposed to the damage buff? Also love how ZOS flopped the sorc from "negate monkeys" to overload light attack spammers. And apparently Wroble knows overload has a heavy attack but doesn't seem to think something far riskier to use should do more damage.

And @Darra, hopefully the next patch proves worth the wait, I don't have that kind of faith in the combat team after these months of silence and teases, as well as their track record.

I agree to an extent. Whenever I see one placed I save my proc'd frags for it, or can just tank it. But I use it all the time and have a lot of success with it. If I see a blob with depleting health bars I bring one down and the ap flows. If I find myself outnumberd I bring one down and dance around it and it buys me time. DK/NB/Templar stands in his standard/veil/nova I bring one down in they have to move. It has more utility value than actual dps value, but it's still valuable imo. Many players don't even cc break the stun and just melt. It's my bread and butter ulti and I'm very fond of it. Wouldn't use it if it didn't produce results.

I slot overload too, but just for the 3rd bar. Never use the light attacks against players cos it's pure cheese, feel so dirty doing that.

I'm glad you find the Atronach aesthetically and thematically appealing, but it does not do a damn thing against groups of VR16 players.

I'm glad you're so sure of this, but as I mentioned I get results. I would certainly be up for an atro buff though if that's what you're implying.

The main problem of attro is (like many things about sorcs really) if you know how to counter it - it´s basically wasted and even a negate would have been a better investment of the ultimate points (this leads to results being tied to having terrible opponents which is never a good thing).

You can slot a different ultimate on overload bar by assigning it to the ultimate slot in the skill tab. You have to trade one normal skillslot though to toggle overload off. Still vaible if you want to run a single + an aoe ultimate and don´t want to miss out on the utility slots of overload.

Thanks for your response. I'm aware of its limitations, been using it since launch. There are fights where I just don't use an ultimate because I'm unwilling to use overload light attacks against players, and I know that using atro would have been inappropriate and a waste in that situation. My argument is just that it isn't useless, my reasoning is I find lots of use for it. It does aoe damage, aoe cc and single target damage. I pvp in small groups with my guildies and in large groups with pugs, and it can be devastating in certain situations. I wouldn't use it in a duel with a competent player. Maybe my expectations for an ultimate are set too low.

I think your expectations for what an ultimate can do are low.

Ironically, probably the best situation to use this is precisely the instant you do not: against a single player.

Your atro is going to get CCed, fossilized, eclipsed, silver sharded and just grant people who know what they are doing free ultimate (via basic attacks and the FGs passives)

It is a shame because in every fantasy game I have played, I've always rolled a summoner but I cannot use storm atronach because it is a normal skill masquerading as an ultimate..

I respect you and have taken advice from you before. It's because of a comment you made in a thread a while back that I now wear 2 pieces of heavy armour. However, I do consider myself an experienced pvper and I can tell if something I do is effective or not. Atronach buys me and my group time, which seems like a good use for an ultimate. I also consider using overloads 3rd bar as utility for the likes of purge, siege shield and rapids a good use of that ultimate. I'm all about being useful in pvp. People seem to assume an ultimate should just increase your dps. If you just play solo then I can agree with that thinking, but cyrodiil was designed for group play, and someone focusing or avoiding my atronach is one less player focusing me or my group members. It's a distraction, causes chaos and has been responsible for moving players off flags, tanking npcs, splitting and wiping blobs, and being something me or my group members can LoS behind. My only real gripe with it is it's high ulti cost.

I appreciate the kind words.

I do have a question for you, however.

If there is something you genuinely enjoy using/doing and someone points out how that very thing could and should be improved ... why would you argue against that? It's like arguing with your boss that you do not deserve a raise.

I actually do recognize the potential storm atronach has. If you read my guide to Malestrom, you will see that I do opt to use it. But it has huge defects in PvP that are too easy for opponents to exploit.

What you are basically telling Zenimax is "Storm Atronach is *really* useful in precisely the game-play you imagined Cyrodiil would be at the moment. Don't listen to people who claim the ultimate is underperforming. Trust me."

I don't know, maybe the EU meta is different. The number of sorcerers in NA's top PvP guilds that run Storm Atronach while they are in raids is zero.

******

I mean I have my pet skills that I know are under-performing that I use anyway like Eclipse, Draw Essence, Encase, *gasp* Elemental Wall (in PvE). When the inefficiency of these are brought up on these forums, I do NOT tell Zenimax they are viable because I use them. I either take a back seat or I try to use my experiences as a means to communicate to ZoS why it is these skills need to be tweaked.

CP5

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

We have got to stop with the nerf thread dialogue. I know with absolute certainty at least two people who have asked for nerfs in the above posts are wrecking blow spammers. You hit much harder than any overload light attack. The sad fact is If you have any kind of spell resist or have points in hardy or elemental defender overload light attacks might as well be ..... Light attacks. It's very easy to mitigate magic damage. Also it is easy to dodge and slow even when it's tab targeted. It misses as much as it hits. It is useful in pve and helps with dungeon bosses. If you want all these abilities nerfed play a sorc or just put on scales if you are a dk or defensive posture as I do with my Templar. You could even run harness magic to mitigate the damage... Truth is you want to build a build where no ability or skill does more damage than you do or can. You want to prepare for builds you like playing against and call for nerfs in builds you don't. It's sad and I am glad for once that you will get bored of being Rekt all the time and move to the next Skyrim where no one else will out play you.

Many of the players voting no in this thread main a sorc.

Its just, in my opinion, the class is kind of forced into the current build types people use. How many alternatives are really worth using at this point?

Strider_Roshin

No

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

We have got to stop with the nerf thread dialogue. I know with absolute certainty at least two people who have asked for nerfs in the above posts are wrecking blow spammers. You hit much harder than any overload light attack. The sad fact is If you have any kind of spell resist or have points in hardy or elemental defender overload light attacks might as well be ..... Light attacks. It's very easy to mitigate magic damage. Also it is easy to dodge and slow even when it's tab targeted. It misses as much as it hits. It is useful in pve and helps with dungeon bosses. If you want all these abilities nerfed play a sorc or just put on scales if you are a dk or defensive posture as I do with my Templar. You could even run harness magic to mitigate the damage... Truth is you want to build a build where no ability or skill does more damage than you do or can. You want to prepare for builds you like playing against and call for nerfs in builds you don't. It's sad and I am glad for once that you will get bored of being Rekt all the time and move to the next Skyrim where no one else will out play you.

Many of the players voting no in this thread main a sorc.

I created this thread after creating a sorc. I noticed a huge disparity between overload and the other Ultimates in this game. If you noticed, not once did I request the damage to be nerfed, I actually asked for the AoE damage to get a buff. What I find unbalanced is how many times you can spam this move. It's ridiculous. My suggestions are that they cap the amount of times you can spam it. I think 4 or 5 light attacks is more than reasonable.

FriedEggSandwich

No

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

We have got to stop with the nerf thread dialogue. I know with absolute certainty at least two people who have asked for nerfs in the above posts are wrecking blow spammers. You hit much harder than any overload light attack. The sad fact is If you have any kind of spell resist or have points in hardy or elemental defender overload light attacks might as well be ..... Light attacks. It's very easy to mitigate magic damage. Also it is easy to dodge and slow even when it's tab targeted. It misses as much as it hits. It is useful in pve and helps with dungeon bosses. If you want all these abilities nerfed play a sorc or just put on scales if you are a dk or defensive posture as I do with my Templar. You could even run harness magic to mitigate the damage... Truth is you want to build a build where no ability or skill does more damage than you do or can. You want to prepare for builds you like playing against and call for nerfs in builds you don't. It's sad and I am glad for once that you will get bored of being Rekt all the time and move to the next Skyrim where no one else will out play you.

Many of the players voting no in this thread main a sorc.

I created this thread after creating a sorc. I noticed a huge disparity between overload and the other Ultimates in this game. If you noticed, not once did I request the damage to be nerfed, I actually asked for the AoE damage to get a buff. What I find unbalanced is how many times you can spam this move. It's ridiculous. My suggestions are that they cap the amount of times you can spam it. I think 4 or 5 light attacks is more than reasonable.

I also don't think the damage should be nerfed, my issue with it is also it's spammability. At the start of this thread my suggestion was to make it cheap to block which would counter the spam. Reducing how many light attacks could be used would also work.

Edit: this would hurt it's pve effectiveness though, whereas making it cheap to block wouldn't.

FriedEggSandwich

No

Joy_Division wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I don´t think it´s balanced right now - though i don´t have an issue with it because of how much ultimate you can store but the third skillbar (on which you can slot a different ultimate ) and the utility you get with that.

However it´s the last sorc ultimate i´m using personally because attro and negate are just utterly useless. The sorc class needs some work and i´m against nerfing overload in any form until we see the ability changes in the next patch.

Why is atro useless? 1v1 it's useless cos players just move out of range. It's great for group play though; riot control, confusion, LoS behind it etc.

Edit: also I wasn't aware you could slot another ultimate on your overload bar. Tried it several patches ago and it wouldn't let me. If you managed to slot another ultimate on your overload bar how would you activate it? Surely hitting 'r' would just toggle overload off?

When I see one placed (if ever) it is so easy to ignore. You can knock it down, stun it, silence it or just flat out kill it. When there are a large number of enemies around the outgoing dps is more than enough to clear it from the field before it can do much of anything, not to mention it derps up all the time and spends more time focusing on new targets than attacking.

Back on the subject of overload. Back when they buffed the light attacks by 50% they (zos) originally were going to remove the gcd that was placed on each light attack, but chose to keep the ability clunky and boring but compensated with the damage we see now. Would people have prefered no delay between each attack as opposed to the damage buff? Also love how ZOS flopped the sorc from "negate monkeys" to overload light attack spammers. And apparently Wroble knows overload has a heavy attack but doesn't seem to think something far riskier to use should do more damage.

And @Darra, hopefully the next patch proves worth the wait, I don't have that kind of faith in the combat team after these months of silence and teases, as well as their track record.

I agree to an extent. Whenever I see one placed I save my proc'd frags for it, or can just tank it. But I use it all the time and have a lot of success with it. If I see a blob with depleting health bars I bring one down and the ap flows. If I find myself outnumberd I bring one down and dance around it and it buys me time. DK/NB/Templar stands in his standard/veil/nova I bring one down in they have to move. It has more utility value than actual dps value, but it's still valuable imo. Many players don't even cc break the stun and just melt. It's my bread and butter ulti and I'm very fond of it. Wouldn't use it if it didn't produce results.

I slot overload too, but just for the 3rd bar. Never use the light attacks against players cos it's pure cheese, feel so dirty doing that.

I'm glad you find the Atronach aesthetically and thematically appealing, but it does not do a damn thing against groups of VR16 players.

I'm glad you're so sure of this, but as I mentioned I get results. I would certainly be up for an atro buff though if that's what you're implying.

The main problem of attro is (like many things about sorcs really) if you know how to counter it - it´s basically wasted and even a negate would have been a better investment of the ultimate points (this leads to results being tied to having terrible opponents which is never a good thing).

You can slot a different ultimate on overload bar by assigning it to the ultimate slot in the skill tab. You have to trade one normal skillslot though to toggle overload off. Still vaible if you want to run a single + an aoe ultimate and don´t want to miss out on the utility slots of overload.

Thanks for your response. I'm aware of its limitations, been using it since launch. There are fights where I just don't use an ultimate because I'm unwilling to use overload light attacks against players, and I know that using atro would have been inappropriate and a waste in that situation. My argument is just that it isn't useless, my reasoning is I find lots of use for it. It does aoe damage, aoe cc and single target damage. I pvp in small groups with my guildies and in large groups with pugs, and it can be devastating in certain situations. I wouldn't use it in a duel with a competent player. Maybe my expectations for an ultimate are set too low.

I think your expectations for what an ultimate can do are low.

Ironically, probably the best situation to use this is precisely the instant you do not: against a single player.

Your atro is going to get CCed, fossilized, eclipsed, silver sharded and just grant people who know what they are doing free ultimate (via basic attacks and the FGs passives)

It is a shame because in every fantasy game I have played, I've always rolled a summoner but I cannot use storm atronach because it is a normal skill masquerading as an ultimate..

I respect you and have taken advice from you before. It's because of a comment you made in a thread a while back that I now wear 2 pieces of heavy armour. However, I do consider myself an experienced pvper and I can tell if something I do is effective or not. Atronach buys me and my group time, which seems like a good use for an ultimate. I also consider using overloads 3rd bar as utility for the likes of purge, siege shield and rapids a good use of that ultimate. I'm all about being useful in pvp. People seem to assume an ultimate should just increase your dps. If you just play solo then I can agree with that thinking, but cyrodiil was designed for group play, and someone focusing or avoiding my atronach is one less player focusing me or my group members. It's a distraction, causes chaos and has been responsible for moving players off flags, tanking npcs, splitting and wiping blobs, and being something me or my group members can LoS behind. My only real gripe with it is it's high ulti cost.

I appreciate the kind words.

I do have a question for you, however.

If there is something you genuinely enjoy using/doing and someone points out how that very thing could and should be improved ... why would you argue against that? It's like arguing with your boss that you do not deserve a raise.

I actually do recognize the potential storm atronach has. If you read my guide to Malestrom, you will see that I do opt to use it. But it has huge defects in PvP that are too easy for opponents to exploit.

What you are basically telling Zenimax is "Storm Atronach is *really* useful in precisely the game-play you imagined Cyrodiil would be at the moment. Don't listen to people who claim the ultimate is underperforming. Trust me."

I don't know, maybe the EU meta is different. The number of sorcerers in NA's top PvP guilds that run Storm Atronach while they are in raids is zero.

******

I mean I have my pet skills that I know are under-performing that I use anyway like Eclipse, Draw Essence, Encase, *gasp* Elemental Wall (in PvE). When the inefficiency of these are brought up on these forums, I do NOT tell Zenimax they are viable because I use them. I either take a back seat or I try to use my experiences as a means to communicate to ZoS why it is these skills need to be tweaked.

I see your point. Would like to hear your suggestions on how it could be buffed without making it op. Maybe a mobile one? I would like it's ultimate cost reduced so I could use it more. Fwiw I do see a fair few atros used in EU azura.

Edit: I'm essentially a pug though so don't run with elite guilds. I do fight against a few though.

Joy_Division

No

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I don´t think it´s balanced right now - though i don´t have an issue with it because of how much ultimate you can store but the third skillbar (on which you can slot a different ultimate ) and the utility you get with that.

However it´s the last sorc ultimate i´m using personally because attro and negate are just utterly useless. The sorc class needs some work and i´m against nerfing overload in any form until we see the ability changes in the next patch.

Why is atro useless? 1v1 it's useless cos players just move out of range. It's great for group play though; riot control, confusion, LoS behind it etc.

Edit: also I wasn't aware you could slot another ultimate on your overload bar. Tried it several patches ago and it wouldn't let me. If you managed to slot another ultimate on your overload bar how would you activate it? Surely hitting 'r' would just toggle overload off?

When I see one placed (if ever) it is so easy to ignore. You can knock it down, stun it, silence it or just flat out kill it. When there are a large number of enemies around the outgoing dps is more than enough to clear it from the field before it can do much of anything, not to mention it derps up all the time and spends more time focusing on new targets than attacking.

Back on the subject of overload. Back when they buffed the light attacks by 50% they (zos) originally were going to remove the gcd that was placed on each light attack, but chose to keep the ability clunky and boring but compensated with the damage we see now. Would people have prefered no delay between each attack as opposed to the damage buff? Also love how ZOS flopped the sorc from "negate monkeys" to overload light attack spammers. And apparently Wroble knows overload has a heavy attack but doesn't seem to think something far riskier to use should do more damage.

And @Darra, hopefully the next patch proves worth the wait, I don't have that kind of faith in the combat team after these months of silence and teases, as well as their track record.

I agree to an extent. Whenever I see one placed I save my proc'd frags for it, or can just tank it. But I use it all the time and have a lot of success with it. If I see a blob with depleting health bars I bring one down and the ap flows. If I find myself outnumberd I bring one down and dance around it and it buys me time. DK/NB/Templar stands in his standard/veil/nova I bring one down in they have to move. It has more utility value than actual dps value, but it's still valuable imo. Many players don't even cc break the stun and just melt. It's my bread and butter ulti and I'm very fond of it. Wouldn't use it if it didn't produce results.

I slot overload too, but just for the 3rd bar. Never use the light attacks against players cos it's pure cheese, feel so dirty doing that.

I'm glad you find the Atronach aesthetically and thematically appealing, but it does not do a damn thing against groups of VR16 players.

I'm glad you're so sure of this, but as I mentioned I get results. I would certainly be up for an atro buff though if that's what you're implying.

The main problem of attro is (like many things about sorcs really) if you know how to counter it - it´s basically wasted and even a negate would have been a better investment of the ultimate points (this leads to results being tied to having terrible opponents which is never a good thing).

You can slot a different ultimate on overload bar by assigning it to the ultimate slot in the skill tab. You have to trade one normal skillslot though to toggle overload off. Still vaible if you want to run a single + an aoe ultimate and don´t want to miss out on the utility slots of overload.

Thanks for your response. I'm aware of its limitations, been using it since launch. There are fights where I just don't use an ultimate because I'm unwilling to use overload light attacks against players, and I know that using atro would have been inappropriate and a waste in that situation. My argument is just that it isn't useless, my reasoning is I find lots of use for it. It does aoe damage, aoe cc and single target damage. I pvp in small groups with my guildies and in large groups with pugs, and it can be devastating in certain situations. I wouldn't use it in a duel with a competent player. Maybe my expectations for an ultimate are set too low.

I think your expectations for what an ultimate can do are low.

Ironically, probably the best situation to use this is precisely the instant you do not: against a single player.

Your atro is going to get CCed, fossilized, eclipsed, silver sharded and just grant people who know what they are doing free ultimate (via basic attacks and the FGs passives)

It is a shame because in every fantasy game I have played, I've always rolled a summoner but I cannot use storm atronach because it is a normal skill masquerading as an ultimate..

I respect you and have taken advice from you before. It's because of a comment you made in a thread a while back that I now wear 2 pieces of heavy armour. However, I do consider myself an experienced pvper and I can tell if something I do is effective or not. Atronach buys me and my group time, which seems like a good use for an ultimate. I also consider using overloads 3rd bar as utility for the likes of purge, siege shield and rapids a good use of that ultimate. I'm all about being useful in pvp. People seem to assume an ultimate should just increase your dps. If you just play solo then I can agree with that thinking, but cyrodiil was designed for group play, and someone focusing or avoiding my atronach is one less player focusing me or my group members. It's a distraction, causes chaos and has been responsible for moving players off flags, tanking npcs, splitting and wiping blobs, and being something me or my group members can LoS behind. My only real gripe with it is it's high ulti cost.

I appreciate the kind words.

I do have a question for you, however.

If there is something you genuinely enjoy using/doing and someone points out how that very thing could and should be improved ... why would you argue against that? It's like arguing with your boss that you do not deserve a raise.

I actually do recognize the potential storm atronach has. If you read my guide to Malestrom, you will see that I do opt to use it. But it has huge defects in PvP that are too easy for opponents to exploit.

What you are basically telling Zenimax is "Storm Atronach is *really* useful in precisely the game-play you imagined Cyrodiil would be at the moment. Don't listen to people who claim the ultimate is underperforming. Trust me."

I don't know, maybe the EU meta is different. The number of sorcerers in NA's top PvP guilds that run Storm Atronach while they are in raids is zero.

******

I mean I have my pet skills that I know are under-performing that I use anyway like Eclipse, Draw Essence, Encase, *gasp* Elemental Wall (in PvE). When the inefficiency of these are brought up on these forums, I do NOT tell Zenimax they are viable because I use them. I either take a back seat or I try to use my experiences as a means to communicate to ZoS why it is these skills need to be tweaked.

I see your point. Would like to hear your suggestions on how it could be buffed without making it op. Maybe a mobile one? I would like it's ultimate cost reduced so I could use it more. Fwiw I do see a fair few atros used in EU azura.

Edit: I'm essentially a pug though so don't run with elite guilds. I do fight against a few though.

Yes!

And PuGs are people too My templar basically runs as you run so anything that you can communicate to ZoS to help solo-roaming and help fight the ball-groups is going to be most appreciated. If we could summon the atro from the AA trials... bye bye zerg blob

Derra

No

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

In PvE? I can get really close to the dps that overload sorcerers do without having to spend 1k ultimate.
In PVP? Most stamblades hit harder with their surprise attack lol.

Not even close. Your delusional if you think surprise attack does comparable damage.

I haven't seen a single sorc hitting me with a 10k overload attack yet. Surprise attack on the other hand often hits for 8-9k.

Typical damage range of surprise attack in Cyrodiil: 3 - 4,500

Typical damage of overload: 6 - 11k

Now I have never gotten hit that hard by surprise attack and I fight Nightblades with 5k+ weapon damage and 70%+ weapon crit so how do you explain that one?

I´ve hit for 15k overload crits but i´ve been hit for 13k suprise attack out of batswarm aswell (no sneak bonus two consecutive hits).

3k to 4.5k is really on the low end of the spectrum (just as 4 to 5k would be for overload) - both is most likely not a crit.[/quote]

Not really, keep in mind I'm a Nord and I run full impenetrable. A wrecking Blow with empowered, critting does at most 7,500 to me. [/quote]

Simply no reason why overload should be hitting you that much higher then - especially if you have points into elemental defender.

The overload numbers you cite are what i get hit for on average while the suprise attacks are about 30% lower of what i get hit for on average - which does not make much sense (no 3.5k difference between spellresist and physical resist do not explain that difference)

Strider_Roshin

No

Derra wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Instant wrote: »

In PvE? I can get really close to the dps that overload sorcerers do without having to spend 1k ultimate.
In PVP? Most stamblades hit harder with their surprise attack lol.

Not even close. Your delusional if you think surprise attack does comparable damage.

I haven't seen a single sorc hitting me with a 10k overload attack yet. Surprise attack on the other hand often hits for 8-9k.

Typical damage range of surprise attack in Cyrodiil: 3 - 4,500

Typical damage of overload: 6 - 11k

Now I have never gotten hit that hard by surprise attack and I fight Nightblades with 5k+ weapon damage and 70%+ weapon crit so how do you explain that one?

I´ve hit for 15k overload crits but i´ve been hit for 13k suprise attack out of batswarm aswell (no sneak bonus two consecutive hits).

3k to 4.5k is really on the low end of the spectrum (just as 4 to 5k would be for overload) - both is most likely not a crit.

Not really, keep in mind I'm a Nord and I run full impenetrable. A wrecking Blow with empowered, critting does at most 7,500 to me. [/quote]

Simply no reason why overload should be hitting you that much higher then - especially if you have points into elemental defender.

The overload numbers you cite are what i get hit for on average while the suprise attacks are about 30% lower of what i get hit for on average - which does not make much sense (no 3.5k difference between spellresist and physical resist do not explain that difference)[/quote]

I don't know what to tell you. That's what I've gotten hit by. In most cases, overload hits for around 7.8k, and in most cases surprise attack hits for around 3.5k. Very rarely does overload hit as high as 11k, and it's just as rare that surprise attack hits me for 4.5k. But those are the numbers I've seen.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Yes

In a PvE encounter that lasts 5 min, overload is balanced. Sadly, all PvE is currently facerolled in 1 min or less. This will change though.

In PvP it's a mixed bag. Easy to evade, but heavily damaging if it hits. It's also clunky and annoying to use, because it causes skill lockout for a whole second. Id love for them to halve the damage of overload, but allow it to be weaved with skills. Then I could play a sorc while in overload, rather than be an overload monkey.

I don't think that changing the ultimate ceiling will really change the skill much in PvP. 400 ultimate is still 20 overloads

Derra

No

Maybe sth. about the nord dmg reduction + impen + resistant is borked when interacting with NB critical dmg increase then. It should not be that much of a difference - especially the really low suprise attacks are kind of irritating.

Jahosefat

Yes

It's crazy strong, but the other sorc ults are crazy weak (PVP). So it's balanced overall Negate doesn't even do any damage! Obviously overload is compensating for this deficiency

Seriously though, they should add the heals/mag gains back to negate; no dynamic ulti anymore so no chain negates (so the nerf is no longer needed!).

CP5

Jahosefat wrote: »

It's crazy strong, but the other sorc ults are crazy weak (PVP). So it's balanced overall Negate doesn't even do any damage! Obviously overload is compensating for this deficiency

Seriously though, they should add the heals/mag gains back to negate; no dynamic ulti anymore so no chain negates (so the nerf is no longer needed!).

Sadly negate wasn't nerfed for that. Still remember the ESO live episode where Wroble talked, rather enthusiastically, about nerfing the skill. Perhaps they will make it worth using with the old morph choices but I don't expect they'll do much. Gotta love that major regen buff it gives, right?

Stannum

Nifty2g wrote: »

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

overload ~ 10k dmg non crit on v16
DK whipe ~ 17k dmg non crit on v16

So overload is good for sustain but useless in other cases if you need burst meteor is much better.

lol wat
did that person have overload on his staff bar or sword bar?

5 Julianos, 2 Kena, 3 willpower, 1 maelstrom staff, 2 torug swords

try using overload with that set up and you'll see how unbalanced it is. Not sure if I'd go as far as saying it's unbalanced in PvP because it's been toned down so much with the latest update but before the battle leveling changes were around Overload was a big issue. Now most sorcs are too scared to use it as it's reflected or dodged very easily

But for PvE it needs some balancing

~10k overload non crits on 5 hundings + 4 night mothers (sword + hammer) + 3 agility with bound armaments and surge up
~17k DK whipe non crits on 5 julianos + 3 torug (2 nirn swords) + 1 kena + 3 willpower with enthropy up

Waffennacht

Yes

Please for the love of eso, can we wait till after the class rebalancing? And if it never comes... well... oh wells.

Im already tempted to make alts just to make sure I don't get pwned by a possible sorc nerfing.

Im surprised without any changes we went from nerf NBs back to nerf Sorcs (in general I know OP said he wasn't hoping for a nerf, but it sure as heck sounds like it)

And remember, a Sorc can SCREW themselves over with overload, if you have your overload bar with even one necessary move... you better not run outta ult!