When VR levels are removed, should silver and gold zones scale like Orsinium?

NewBlacksmurf

Instead of having vr1-5 and vr6-10 should these zones work just like Orsinium?

Sausage

Other...

Scale to your CP or is this what Orsinium is now? and most importantly they should be an optional thing, especially for those who prefer to play only one char. Or then just simply remove them, this game has decent endgame already.

NewBlacksmurf

Yes

Sausage wrote: »

Scale to your CP or is this what Orsinium is now? and most importantly they should be an optional thing, especially for those who prefer to play only one char. Or then just simply remove them, this game has decent endgame already.

How would the game scale content to a CP?
I see this often but I don't follow the logic as CP's are Passives that if ever ZOS tried to scale content or use CP as restrictions on gear and content....the game would become more broken than it is now with VR's

Gidorick

Yes

Everything will scale to 50. Cp will just be "extra" power over.

Barlthump

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Scale to your CP or is this what Orsinium is now? and most importantly they should be an optional thing, especially for those who prefer to play only one char. Or then just simply remove them, this game has decent endgame already.

How would the game scale content to a CP?
I see this often but I don't follow the logic as CP's are Passives that if ever ZOS tried to scale content or use CP as restrictions on gear and content....the game would become more broken than it is now with VR's

So you want the removal of VR ranks but you don't care if someone makes a character today and gets to 50 tomorrow and Wear the same set of gear you are wearing after going through all the hard work? Seems nice for new players but what about the older players who are here. We've been grinding our chars to VR14 (older system when quests only get you to vr10). And then to vr 16

I_killed_Vivec

No

Gidorick wrote: »

Everything will scale to 50. Cp will just be "extra" power over.

But then if you choose to work through Silver and Gold each zone will become easier than the last as you gain more CP.

Which is the opposite of progression, because you never get tested by any content.

When I did Silver and Gold (back when you needed 4 million XP per VR level), I enjoyed starting off being under-powered, gaining as I worked through a zone until I completed it and had to work again in the next zone. Completing each zone was satisfying.

If you make it "Easy, easier, easier still" then the only challenge will be vMA, which is too much of a challenge for the vast majority of players.

Turelus

Yes

I would love to see all the zones be a bit more dynamic like this, however as other have said I worry how it would be balanced.

The whole power level being based on CP worries me.,

willymchilybily

Yes

Barlthump wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Scale to your CP or is this what Orsinium is now? and most importantly they should be an optional thing, especially for those who prefer to play only one char. Or then just simply remove them, this game has decent endgame already.

How would the game scale content to a CP?
I see this often but I don't follow the logic as CP's are Passives that if ever ZOS tried to scale content or use CP as restrictions on gear and content....the game would become more broken than it is now with VR's

So you want the removal of VR ranks but you don't care if someone makes a character today and gets to 50 tomorrow and Wear the same set of gear you are wearing after going through all the hard work? Seems nice for new players but what about the older players who are here. We've been grinding our chars to VR14 (older system when quests only get you to vr10). And then to vr 16

@Barlthump
The little info so far on the new system indicates CP will take over as a form of rank to determine gear level that can be accessed. (by which i mean set bonus values and enchant values) at estimated 10Cp = 1 VR. And the only way to get gear that's decent is to do veteran pledges, lean 6 traits in your crafting, Run PvP campaigns several times, and run a lot of IC/orsinium. you don't hit 50 and get good gear unless you have a higher character who is max level and who has already earn't that gear or the materials to make it.

Turelus

Yes

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Scale to your CP or is this what Orsinium is now? and most importantly they should be an optional thing, especially for those who prefer to play only one char. Or then just simply remove them, this game has decent endgame already.

How would the game scale content to a CP?
I see this often but I don't follow the logic as CP's are Passives that if ever ZOS tried to scale content or use CP as restrictions on gear and content....the game would become more broken than it is now with VR's

Yet this is exactly what they're thinking of doing according to Rich's information. Sure we're going to all be level 50, but if they're locking gear levels behind CP then we're going to surely see zones and dungeons aimed at a specific CP level so those new gear levels drop there.

ADarklore

No

No... because I want to be able to be a bit OP when I play through my first time. Funny that most of those voting YES, I'm sure, are those who have already played through it once and are just wanting this for ALTS. Some new and existing players don't always want 'challenging content' and these existing zones are the only ones we'll have that don't scale... so keep it AS IS.

Besides that, I think DCUO has shown that going back to old content and trying to make it scale, ends up creating major problems... so much so that they reverted it to what it was originally.

I also don't think ZOS wants to spend their valuable resources working on OLDER content when most players want them to be focusing on bug fixes and FUTURE content.

MrDerrikk

Other...

For your first alt, the zones should have a set level as-is, to encourage you to do them at least once. After that, they should all be scaled.

Barlthump

willymchilybily wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Scale to your CP or is this what Orsinium is now? and most importantly they should be an optional thing, especially for those who prefer to play only one char. Or then just simply remove them, this game has decent endgame already.

How would the game scale content to a CP?
I see this often but I don't follow the logic as CP's are Passives that if ever ZOS tried to scale content or use CP as restrictions on gear and content....the game would become more broken than it is now with VR's

So you want the removal of VR ranks but you don't care if someone makes a character today and gets to 50 tomorrow and Wear the same set of gear you are wearing after going through all the hard work? Seems nice for new players but what about the older players who are here. We've been grinding our chars to VR14 (older system when quests only get you to vr10). And then to vr 16

@Barlthump
The little info so far on the new system indicates CP will take over as a form of rank to determine gear level that can be accessed. (by which i mean set bonus values and enchant values) at estimated 10Cp = 1 VR. And the only way to get gear that's decent is to do veteran pledges, lean 6 traits in your crafting, Run PvP campaigns several times, and run a lot of IC/orsinium. you don't hit 50 and get good gear unless you have a higher character who is max level and who has already earn't that gear or the materials to make it.

Honestly speaking, with a proper guild:

People craft gear for you for free, so you don't need the 6 traits. With the CP catch up mechanics, getting to 160 can be done in 2-3 days with a psijic pot.

People are willing to bring you along for pledges if you can pull the standard 12-15k dps, which can be easily done with VR15 gear.

People run weekly pvp guild events that have no requirements to join.

And if a new player does the game properly he should have enough points to max out clothing, blacksmithing and woodworking (the first 9 skill points each) so that he can gather mats from wrothgar easily.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the removal of VR ranks is a bad idea, I'm saying don't remove leveling from an MMO altogether. Like if the level cap never goes higher and gear depends on CP, we are literally not making eso better cause in the end it will probably just become elder grind online.

NEW DLC RELEASED --> Gear requires *eg: 400 cp, GRIND GRIND GRIND. Wait for next DLC.

In the end all a player will be doing most of the time is grinding for mats, grinding for CP, Grinding for almost everything. What will give you the incentive to quest when a new dlc comes out when you can just grind the CP for the next tier gear.

Dubhliam

Other...

CP scaling.
As MrDerrikk already said, the content should not be accessible all at once to the first char you level to lvl 50 (0 CP).
While doing content you gain power (CP) and are able to access more and more content.
All subsequent characters over lvl 50 can already access all the content your first character can due to CP being account bound.

To clarify: mobs should have fixed power similar to current VR levels.

You might not have access to all zones at once, but with the current "catchup" mechanic in place, people should spike in power real fast with CP scaling.

Xendyn

Other...

What I am hoping for is that what is currently Silver and Gold will be opened up so I can pick and choose the zones I enjoy the most to play and gain CP in.

I Don't want the node scaling in those zones, however as I'd like to be able to get specific resources if I need them to gear alts or guildies.

Sausage

Other...

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Scale to your CP or is this what Orsinium is now? and most importantly they should be an optional thing, especially for those who prefer to play only one char. Or then just simply remove them, this game has decent endgame already.

How would the game scale content to a CP?
I see this often but I don't follow the logic as CP's are Passives that if ever ZOS tried to scale content or use CP as restrictions on gear and content....the game would become more broken than it is now with VR's

Theres indeed a problem if it scales to CP, all zones could be totally empty. How about if they just remove them, we dont need Silver/Gold anymore. They were quite helpful at launch where there wasnt exactly nothing to do, but even then, I know for fact that theres people who play only one char and would like to them to stay.

How about no scaling at all, that should mean all Silver/Gold zones stays active, CPs are basically disabled, they are optional after are, also Zen shouldnt force or even encourage people to go Silver/Gold, because that tedious they are, people are having alot more fun, in Craglorn, IC, Cyrodil and Orsinium, or Thieving.

TheShadowScout

Other...

They should all be level 50, like everything post-mainstory will be then!

More seriously, I expect they may come up with something for cadwells to keep the gear drops in line with character progression if nothing else. Might be battle-levelling characters to "zone c-point recommendation" or whatever, but its not like I really care all that much how they do whatever they decide to in the end...

terrordactyl1971

Yes

Not sure how this would work. If all monsters are level 50, how do they get balanced for a level 50 player with 1 CP or a level 50 player with 501 CP ?

PBpsy

Yes

It would be great if everything would be scaled to the current V16 level. I would be happy if they at least gave Craglorn that treatment though.

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

Not sure how this would work. If all monsters are level 50, how do they get balanced for a level 50 player with 1 CP or a level 50 player with 501 CP ?

Orsinium doesn't scale mobs. It buffs the player to a point that the V16 mobs can be handled.

Caligamy_ESO

Yes

TBH I am kind of just assuming this is what the plan already is.. why would they keep mob veteran levels around when they're trying to remove that system?

terrordactyl1971

Yes

They might have to label mobs from level 51,52,53,54,55,56.....66 etc so that there's an understanding of the difficulty of the monster, so a level 50 player with 1 CP knows what he can handle compared to a level 50 player with 501 CP's

MornaBaine

Other...

Silver and Gold should simply be removed and the person who came up with that illogical travesty should be publicly flogged. Access to the other lands should indeed occur at level 50 and it should be CROSS FACTION. THAT would actually give people incentive to level.

terrordactyl1971

Yes

MornaBaine wrote: »

Silver and Gold should simply be removed and the person who came up with that illogical travesty should be publicly flogged. Access to the other lands should indeed occur at level 50 and it should be CROSS FACTION. THAT would actually give people incentive to level.

How would that work? If you are in Daggerfall and you've just finished Bangkorai (37-43) at level 44...once you hit level 50 does Bangkorai suddenly become a level 50 zone full of AD and EP?

myrrrorb14_ESO

Yes

Barlthump wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Scale to your CP or is this what Orsinium is now? and most importantly they should be an optional thing, especially for those who prefer to play only one char. Or then just simply remove them, this game has decent endgame already.

How would the game scale content to a CP?
I see this often but I don't follow the logic as CP's are Passives that if ever ZOS tried to scale content or use CP as restrictions on gear and content....the game would become more broken than it is now with VR's

So you want the removal of VR ranks but you don't care if someone makes a character today and gets to 50 tomorrow and Wear the same set of gear you are wearing after going through all the hard work? Seems nice for new players but what about the older players who are here. We've been grinding our chars to VR14 (older system when quests only get you to vr10). And then to vr 16

Like it or not, Vet ranks are going away and it doesn't bother me at all.

You don't lose anything, since you were here from the beginning. And a new player will not be able to wear the same gear, since everything will have a cp requirement. But so what if they could. If you are better player, you will be better. Your skill as a player would matter more as it should.

myrrrorb14_ESO

Yes

The one change I would like to see is a difficulty slider though. Make your battle level go up or down to make the content more suited to a player's desire. Maybe adjust the loot tables slightly to accommodate the change.

Sausage

Other...

MornaBaine wrote: »

Silver and Gold should simply be removed and the person who came up with that illogical travesty should be publicly flogged. Access to the other lands should indeed occur at level 50 and it should be CROSS FACTION. THAT would actually give people incentive to level.

They can still make this happen. CP's are disabled from Silver/Gold, all zones should stay active, if player really want to go through that, theres still reward to be found like Skill Points, Lore Books etc. Put all Achievements to account-wide. Cross-faction needs to happen eventually anyway, we already know how bad dungeon/trial queues are, not to mention fix Campaign Population. This still can become awesome game.

Enodoc

Yes

Turelus wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Scale to your CP or is this what Orsinium is now? and most importantly they should be an optional thing, especially for those who prefer to play only one char. Or then just simply remove them, this game has decent endgame already.

How would the game scale content to a CP?
I see this often but I don't follow the logic as CP's are Passives that if ever ZOS tried to scale content or use CP as restrictions on gear and content....the game would become more broken than it is now with VR's

Yet this is exactly what they're thinking of doing according to Rich's information. Sure we're going to all be level 50, but if they're locking gear levels behind CP then we're going to surely see zones and dungeons aimed at a specific CP level so those new gear levels drop there.

They can be aimed at whatever, as long as that is an invisible value. The problem with VRs and progression is that you are directed to go V1 > V14 in linear order, which means you are encouraged to do Silver > Gold > Craglorn in linear order (even if it's not directly forced to that order, the level-based ordering makes it implied). I would hope all gear drops at-level, so regardless of where you are playing (be that Silver/Gold, Craglorn, PvP or Group Dungeons) you will always have useful gear.

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Everything will scale to 50. Cp will just be "extra" power over.

But then if you choose to work through Silver and Gold each zone will become easier than the last as you gain more CP.
Which is the opposite of progression, because you never get tested by any content.
When I did Silver and Gold (back when you needed 4 million XP per VR level), I enjoyed starting off being under-powered, gaining as I worked through a zone until I completed it and had to work again in the next zone. Completing each zone was satisfying.
If you make it "Easy, easier, easier still" then the only challenge will be vMA, which is too much of a challenge for the vast majority of players.

The difficulty can remain even if everything is visibly Level 50. For example, Silver Zone 1 could be geared around 15 CPs, while Silver Zone 5 could be geared around 75 CPs, but the mobs would all show as Level 50.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Silver and Gold should simply be removed and the person who came up with that illogical travesty should be publicly flogged. Access to the other lands should indeed occur at level 50 and it should be CROSS FACTION. THAT would actually give people incentive to level.

Or, y'know, just the second one. You can make the 50+ zones cross-faction without removing Silver and Gold (ie, all the content that other people may want to do once they get there).

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Silver and Gold should simply be removed and the person who came up with that illogical travesty should be publicly flogged. Access to the other lands should indeed occur at level 50 and it should be CROSS FACTION. THAT would actually give people incentive to level.

How would that work? If you are in Daggerfall and you've just finished Bangkorai (37-43) at level 44...once you hit level 50 does Bangkorai suddenly become a level 50 zone full of AD and EP?

Not sure about Morna's idea, but under my proposal, you would be able to choose using the Normal/Veteran toggle which version of your home alliance you entered. Choose the Normal version, and you get the 1-43 zones exactly as they are now. Choose the Veteran version, and you get a 50+ zone (with Level 50 mobs) which is cross-faction. For the other alliances, you would always enter the 50+ version and could not choose to enter the 1-43 versions.

Deandril

Other...

Only if they take measures to control the rampant mob grinding that used to go on in these areas.

Dubhliam

Other...

MornaBaine wrote: »

Silver and Gold should simply be removed and the person who came up with that illogical travesty should be publicly flogged. Access to the other lands should indeed occur at level 50 and it should be CROSS FACTION. THAT would actually give people incentive to level.

The only way silver and gold could be cross faction is if they both get downgraded to lvl 50 and accessible at the same time. And even then those zones could be only cross factioned by two "guest" alliances. The starting zones for the original alliance should always be low level mobs.

Theodorus

Other...

Xendyn wrote: »

What I am hoping for is that what is currently Silver and Gold will be opened up so I can pick and choose the zones I enjoy the most to play and gain CP in.

I Don't want the node scaling in those zones, however as I'd like to be able to get specific resources if I need them to gear alts or guildies.

This. I would like to see what's currently Cadwell's Silver and Gold converted to a post-main-story-arc set of zones, where you can roam around and pick and choose delves and such that you want to do, without being locked into the same linear quests that you've already done with your alts. Levelling should be taken care of by DLC such as Orsinium, not by artificially regurgitating level 5 content.

Why should my "Dominion Hero" be forced to run around fighting the Dominion? It's kind of jarringly non-immersive.

Deandril

Other...

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

Not sure how this would work. If all monsters are level 50, how do they get balanced for a level 50 player with 1 CP or a level 50 player with 501 CP ?

My first character through the main story and cadwells was a templar with 0 cp. It was a struggle but surmountable. Rolled a stam nb with 130 cp at start. not bothering much with cadwells but content has all been ridiculously easy so far. Just 130 cp tips the balance a great deal. I would imagine 501 youy could practically fall asleep and never die in the main story. BTW my nb's only heals came from killers blade and mark target but turns out heals were rarely needed at all.

I_killed_Vivec

No

Enodoc wrote: »

The difficulty can remain even if everything is visibly Level 50. For example, Silver Zone 1 could be geared around 15 CPs, while Silver Zone 5 could be geared around 75 CPs, but the mobs would all show as Level 50.

So instead of voting "yes" to "should these zones work just like Orsinium?" you meant "no" because battlescaling is very different from scaling against the number of CP you have.

If you scale the mobs against your CP, and you scale the gear you can wear, the food you can eat and the potions you can use against CP - let's say using the suggested levels of 10CP - then what is the difference between that Brave New World and what we have now?

As far as I can tell the only advantage is for people who want to insta-create max level alts.

And it gives ZoS the ability to go to VR17, 18 and beyond just by having levels for 170CP, 180CP and so on, while fooling the people who complained about the "VR grind" (it's an XP grind, it has always been an XP grind).