Proximity Detonation - die when it explodes

Silverminken

This was supposed to help with breaking up zergs, now instead it has become the MUST HAVE feature in the bigger groups, why, because if the entire group arms it the "same" time and time the encounter so that they all goes off when they run into the other group, they can destroy them and then only need to follow up with a few AoE attacks. This is not a real skill, and makes for really booring PvP... and not to talk about all the lagg they need to cause to stop the other group from doing this first...


I propose we changes this morph into a real suicide bomb, remove AoE cap, so ALL targets reachable by the explosion takes the same damage before mitigation, but make it so that the one wearing it, ie the caster, DIES when it goes off. So bad for a zerg to run it on all in the group, as all would die.

Now it could be very dangerous for zergs if the "defender" are desperate and goes on real suicide missions to break them up, if the zerg split up, they are no longer zerging, and that was the goal.

Today in PvP there is no real downside to run a in large group, unless you encounter a larger group... or a more skilled group... but they all have the same in common, they are running in large groups... as small groups can't really kill of a large group that runs together, unless they split up...and there is no real reason todo today!

Draxys

lol

lolo_01b16_ESO

It's damage is way too low for that. Why should I suicide if my bomb barely takes down the enemy's barrier?

elc8745ub17_ESO

Just gonna leave this here. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/230459/ball-groups-monkeys-pats-on-the-back/p1

You're partly right. The aoe cap is the problem. Just remove it. Problem solved. Why does a player have to commit suicide just to fight a ball group? He's probably going to die anyway if he jumps into the middle of a ball group.

There's nothing wrong with a group of players using coordination and timing of their aoe's for max effectiveness. That should be encouraged. The problem is that these players have half the work already done for them by default. They're ALREADY in ball group form because of the damage reduction from aoe caps they get. So the call is made in team speak "load prox det". Everyone hits the button at the same time. And as a group already stacked together they just run into the players theyre going to hit with it.

Do you know how much harder it would be to time your aoe's if you were timing them with people you weren't already stacked on top of? It would require a ton more coordination. A ton more practice. And it could be interfered with by enemy players through CC. But right now in ball group form you cant really be interfered with. You just run over everything.

Furthermore, say you and a few other guys are about to jump into a group of enemies to aoe/prox det them. What are you going to tell your healers? "yo get ready were going in, heal us". Even the healers have to be alert and coordinated. But in ball group form, those healers are already healing non stop, and they dont have to use positioning or timing at all really. Theyre literally all stacked on top of each other, heals going, barriers going, aoe's going. And on top of it all, taking 50% less damage than everyone else, because theyre stacked on top of each other.

jhharvest

I kinda like this. Remove AOE cap from Prox Det, make it scale with 20% per target hit (instead of current piddling 5%) and it deals equal damage to the caster upon exploding. I like it.

k2blader

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

It's damage is way too low for that. Why should I suicide if my bomb barely takes down the enemy's barrier?

I do wonder every time someone complains about proxy det. Maybe they are randoms who yolo into enemy groups and their mysterious, overlapping red circles.

Cinnamon_Spider

Forget proxy. Players should just detonate with friendly fire anytime more than 5 are too close together.

Alucardo

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Forget proxy. Players should just detonate with friendly fire anytime more than 5 are too close together.

Best. Idea. Ever.

I'm not being sarcastic.

Docmandu

Best thing they can do at this point is just remove the spell. Biggest fail of a spell design ever. Don't think it hit any of the intended design marks whatsoever.

RinaldoGandolphi

Docmandu wrote: »

Best thing they can do at this point is just remove the spell. Biggest fail of a spell design ever. Don't think it hit any of the intended design marks whatsoever.

Now they need to leave Inevitable Detonation alone, the ranged version you cast and can't purge, it would work if more people used it and taged multiple people in the zerg to all go boom coupled with siege fire can wreck these groups, but no one uses it.

Proxy Det needs to be changed to:

Concussive Detonation - Range 38 meters Cast time 1.5 secs -Curse the Enemy with a magical bomb that explodes after 4 seconds doing X amount of magic damage to all nearby enemies and reduces their Weapon and Spell Damage by 15% for 8 seconds. Damaged targets are also Concussed and Set off balance for 6 seconds

Inevitable Detonation - Stays as is but does 18% more damage at rank IV

Now both of these skills are not only viable, but the Concussive Morph will be really good for reducing the Ball groups damage and healing output, yes they can use it too, but its not a PBAOE anymore and it has a cast time and is a ranged skill, so they can't just run around spamming it like they do currently with proxy det....

just my 2 cents

Draxys

Alucardo wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Forget proxy. Players should just detonate with friendly fire anytime more than 5 are too close together.

Best. Idea. Ever.

I'm not being sarcastic.

How about hyperbolic?

eliisra

k2blader wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

It's damage is way too low for that. Why should I suicide if my bomb barely takes down the enemy's barrier?

I do wonder every time someone complains about proxy det. Maybe they are randoms who yolo into enemy groups and their mysterious, overlapping red circles.

+ people that cant move or dodge from mysterious red overlapping circles, because getting spammed with 0.5 sec mini-stun gapclosers

Aunatar

I would like to have a proximity detonation which deals the same dmg to the caster when the explosion happens, without friendly fire (can you imagine the trolls??)

Wollust

jhharvest wrote: »

I kinda like this. Remove AOE cap from Prox Det, make it scale with 20% per target hit (instead of current piddling 5%) and it deals equal damage to the caster upon exploding. I like it.

You definitely didn't think this through.
It's basically a secured groupkill if you have one (!) NB running into a group with a perfectly timed detonation. This is definitely not how it should work.
For example: I was alone in an enemy keep today. A group of 31 EPs were stacked up on a flag, not expecting anyone, as I was hiding and no one else was there. What did I do? Charge proxy, wait a 1 second, run in and batswarm with sap essence and a fully buffed up proxy. 600k damage in 6 seconds. 100k dps. Killed a few. Now with your idea of, I could have solo wiped 31 enemies and in exchange I die. How is that supposed to work? The troll and frustration are strong in this little idea you had there.

I like proxy because it's the only thing organised (!) groups have against those lol zergs of 60 man and more. Because those guys won't be able to pull it off and usually don't know how to handle multiple proxys exploding into their faces. And I think it needs to be changed to be a proper group bombing skill. Because currently, it's just too strong for every possible use. Even for a 1v1 it's a strong skill, and that's simply not how it should be.

Knootewoot

The one using the proximity bomb on himself should not just die from it. There should be something cool.

When the bomb goes of, 4 horses appear from each direction. They throw a chain around the wrists and ankles of the bomber...

And he gets QUARTERED




Edit: Now with image

NiclasFridholm

That image made My day Knoote!

Silverminken

Wollust wrote: »

jhharvest wrote: »

I kinda like this. Remove AOE cap from Prox Det, make it scale with 20% per target hit (instead of current piddling 5%) and it deals equal damage to the caster upon exploding. I like it.

You definitely didn't think this through.
It's basically a secured groupkill if you have one (!) NB running into a group with a perfectly timed detonation. This is definitely not how it should work.
For example: I was alone in an enemy keep today. A group of 31 EPs were stacked up on a flag, not expecting anyone, as I was hiding and no one else was there. What did I do? Charge proxy, wait a 1 second, run in and batswarm with sap essence and a fully buffed up proxy. 600k damage in 6 seconds. 100k dps. Killed a few. Now with your idea of, I could have solo wiped 31 enemies and in exchange I die. How is that supposed to work? The troll and frustration are strong in this little idea you had there.

I like proxy because it's the only thing organised (!) groups have against those lol zergs of 60 man and more. Because those guys won't be able to pull it off and usually don't know how to handle multiple proxys exploding into their faces. And I think it needs to be changed to be a proper group bombing skill. Because currently, it's just too strong for every possible use. Even for a 1v1 it's a strong skill, and that's simply not how it should be.

You still have the other morph, that puts the explosion on an enemy player...

Turelus

I am a full supporter of this ability either dealing x% damage back onto you or give you a major healing debuff after it goes off.

It really isn't working the way it was intended right now.

RobboEU

Why so extreme?

It still helps small groups deal with zergs and much larger ball groups.

Just have it work same way as it does offensively, therefore for ever team mate in the area of its damage it deals 5% less, simple.

KenaPKK

Block.

Angarato

I agree. buff the damage but make it kill the user.

Angarato

agree this skill needs to change, either do damage to the caster, kill the caster or make it scale in a way where it sucks in 1v1 and small group pvp but scales extemely well against zergs.

every freaking magicka user is using this even in 1v1 cause its a free 10k+ damage off the global cd.
make it do like 4-6k damage against 1 person. and increase its damage by 25% for everyone hit capping out at 300% or so

and obviously remove aoe caps and fire the guy that put in aoe caps. better yet actually set him on fire.

FriedEggSandwich

My only issue with proxy det is it does too much damage to small groups but not enough damage to large groups. As someone else pointed out, you can block, remove yourself from the area of effect, or if you're a sorc then stick a negate down on them all. The skill is a great idea, just not perfectly implemented atm. The damage the skill does should scale up more, doing less damage to one person than it currently does, but more damage to blobs. I have 22k hp and a 10k ward and yesterday I was one-shot by an emp proxy det from full hp through a freshly cast ward. OK so it was an emp, but I was the only player they hit.

Edit: not sure about the suicide bomb idea but perhaps it should damage friendlies if any overlap.

Angarato

altho i like the idea of friendly fire it will get abused to hell and back if it did.

k2blader

eliisra wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

It's damage is way too low for that. Why should I suicide if my bomb barely takes down the enemy's barrier?

I do wonder every time someone complains about proxy det. Maybe they are randoms who yolo into enemy groups and their mysterious, overlapping red circles.

+ people that cant move or dodge from mysterious red overlapping circles, because getting spammed with 0.5 sec mini-stun gapclosers

Re. mini-stun gapclosers my baby NB has no comment, but just last night she was marveling from a distance at the abstract aesthetic of an EP proxdet group and wondering how the folks running into it were getting on. It would actually be nice if all player-generated AoEs had such clearly defined circumferences..

[edit] It's just kinda sad there are worse stamina based things in the game yet this is what people choose to whinge about to the point of saying it should kill the user (lol). At least it requires timing. And it's a decent sneaky-NB deterrent. Can't really have enough of those IMO.