Any discounts for poorer EU countries?

Gargath

Dear ZOS: do you plan any discount for players connecting from poorer EU countries, and I think about the East EU, like Poland for instance?

I mean, comparing the money purchasing power of people from West and East of EU the differences in salaries and comparable level of life as a result is very high, only between Germany and Poland it's an average 3 times lower in Poland, which means Germany is 3x more rich.
But afaik Polish players have to pay 50 PLN per ESO PLUS, which is around 15 USD and 12 EUR which seems the same as for German or US player.

Comparing with SWTOR - it seems that EA already found out there are differences between nations and met players needs by lowering much the fee.
When the regular price for US stands as 15 USD and about 12 EUR for players from West (as my guild mates reported), we in Poland have to pay 30 PLN for sub, which is 8-9 USD.

So why can't you offer us the same to let more of us to buy ESO PLUS?

Bo0137

This and for Brazillians because dollar is 4 times our currency money. A simple subscription of $15,00 would be R$60,00 and we receive a minimum of R$600,00. This is unfair. Not to mention the game is 4 times the price you pay. Actually, every game is 4 times the price.

JamilaRaj

Perhaps they could triple sub/DLC fees for filthy rich Germans instead. After all, the whole point is not to have as many players as possible, but to have players pay as much as possible.

Gargath

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Perhaps they could triple sub/DLC fees for filthy rich Germans instead. After all, the whole point is not to have as many players as possible, but to have players pay as much as possible.

The point is that keeping the same subscription price for all players without seeing there are wide differences between nations, lets Zenimax to loose money because the price is too high for some potential subscribers.

It's not too hard to compare esotu with swtor. Before I started my esotu adventure, I was swtor subscriber for 1 year and all my natives I was talking with agreed that a fee of 30PLN was a fair price in our region, but most of them incl. me would not pay 50 PLN per month. That's an essential reason why swtor has so strong and stable Polish community of active subscribers. We simply feel that EA really understands the differences between West and East.

Because I'm interested in paying for esotu subscription, get a guar and storm IC, but I can't pay so much, I'm personally interested if Zenimax has any plans to change the subscription fees. In a calculation of profits against losses, the question is what is better:
- keeping high price for all countries and facing poorer players using vanilla game without subscription.
- or offering better price to specific groups, thus gaining more subscribers and more money in wallet.

Dexter411

Truth has been spoken and i support that in 100%. I would love to get something from Crown Store. Just look at this:
new game - 60 euro = 255 pln plus/minus. In Poland it is, about 1/5 minimum wages.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Is it possible to have different prices in different countries that use Euro?
If not, why do you think Poland deserves lower prices than Estonia, Slovakia, Portugal or Greece?

JamilaRaj

Gargath wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Perhaps they could triple sub/DLC fees for filthy rich Germans instead. After all, the whole point is not to have as many players as possible, but to have players pay as much as possible.

The point is that keeping the same subscription price for all players without seeing there are wide differences between nations, lets Zenimax to loose money because the price is too high for some potential subscribers.

Not necessarily. Suppose 10 players would subscribe if subscription fee was 30 PLN. ZOS woud get 300 PLN.
If subscription fee was 50 PLN, ZOS would break even (in respect to the above) with mere 6 p(l)ayers (and arguably would be better off, because it would have same revenue with lower costs, e.g. it could have smaller CS team as it would not be obliged to answer freeloaders) and would have greater revenue with 7 subscribers and up.

Gargath wrote: »

It's not too hard to compare esotu with swtor. Before I started my esotu adventure, I was swtor subscriber for 1 year and all my natives I was talking with agreed that a fee of 30PLN was a fair price in our region, but most of them incl. me would not pay 50 PLN per month. That's an essential reason why swtor has so strong and stable Polish community of active subscribers. We simply feel that EA really understands the differences between West and East.

Because I'm interested in paying for esotu subscription, get a guar and storm IC, but I can't pay so much, I'm personally interested if Zenimax has any plans to change the subscription fees. In a calculation of profits against losses, the question is what is better:
- keeping high price for all countries and facing poorer players using vanilla game without subscription.
- or offering better price to specific groups, thus gaining more subscribers and more money in wallet.

Besides, large number of lesser players (playing vanilla game as you put it) increase value of various P2W elements in the game for the rich.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Tito86

Its pointless. Games on Steam also has the same price. You're in poor country your problem.

Reznique

adamtittenbruneb17_ESO wrote: »

Its pointless. Games on Steam also has the same price. You're in poor country your problem.

Well actually games on Steam make discounts for poorer countries. This is why Steam divides users into regions, where the prices actually vary taking into account the people's purchasing power parity.

I'd say ignorance is more of problem than the country of origin sometimes ^^

Rosveen

Dexter411 wrote: »

Truth has been spoken and i support that in 100%. I would love to get something from Crown Store. Just look at this:
new game - 60 euro = 255 pln plus/minus. In Poland it is, about 1/5 minimum wages.

Oh come on. Nobody in Poland buys games for 60 euro. I pre-ordered mine for $45, it's 180 zł (so roughly the same price) on muve.pl and I bet I could find it cheaper if I looked around. It went down as low as $20 during sales.

ViscousSummer88

Not trying to be funny but if you don't have a large disposable income then that's just unfortunate. Why should a single country be given better price points because of their currency? They shouldn't.

Either stop wasting your disposable income somewhere else, save up or get a better paying job.

It's really that simple to be honest. Simple money management is the only problem here.

Rosveen

ViscousSummer88 wrote: »

Not trying to be funny but if you don't have a large disposable income then that's just unfortunate. Why should a single country be given better price points because of their currency? They shouldn't.

Either stop wasting your disposable income somewhere else, save up or get a better paying job.

It's really that simple to be honest. Simple money management is the only problem here.

Simple money management doesn't magically solve macroeconomic problems. What you don't realize is that some of us already have these better paying jobs - and we still don't earn anywhere near what our friends from Scandinavia or the UK do. Some countries are poorer than others, it's just a fact of life. If you want to enter their markets, you need to take into account the disposable income of your potential customers. That's why regional pricing exists. Sell a game cheaper, you'll still make a (lower) profit; sell it for the regular price and people either won't play at all or will pirate it en masse.

I'm not saying I need lower prices. I don't, especially now that ESO is B2P. I think if someone can barely afford the box price, they shouldn't waste money on ESO Plus or crown store fluff. But still, there is value in regional pricing.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Financial wealth has regional constraints but stupidity has no limits...

Tyrusaran

Gargath wrote: »

Dear ZOS: do you plan any discount for players connecting from poorer EU countries, and I think about the East EU, like Poland for instance?

I mean, comparing the money purchasing power of people from West and East of EU the differences in salaries and comparable level of life as a result is very high, only between Germany and Poland it's an average 3 times lower in Poland, which means Germany is 3x more rich.
But afaik Polish players have to pay 50 PLN per ESO PLUS, which is around 15 USD and 12 EUR which seems the same as for German or US player.

Comparing with SWTOR - it seems that EA already found out there are differences between nations and met players needs by lowering much the fee.
When the regular price for US stands as 15 USD and about 12 EUR for players from West (as my guild mates reported), we in Poland have to pay 30 PLN for sub, which is 8-9 USD.

So why can't you offer us the same to let more of us to buy ESO PLUS?

NO no, they cant allow you to pay less, otherwise they can not nickle and dime you for every adition they put in and make em DLC packs, after all, they want to break EA's horendous greedbag record.

pronkg

You can order a key online for 17€

Tito86

Besides that it would be unfair, it could make cheating problems. Players from richer countries could log on using proxy form e.g. polish IP's and buy a game with cheaper price. Your queston is redicolous!

Rosveen

adamtittenbruneb17_ESO wrote: »

Besides that it would be unfair, it could make cheating problems. Players from richer countries could log on using proxy form e.g. polish IP's and buy a game with cheaper price. Your queston is redicolous!

It isn't a ridiculous question. It can work in games with multiple servers because region-locks are possible. No such chance in ESO though, you're right. We already had a problem with cheap Russian game time cards.

Tito86

Rosveen wrote: »

It isn't a ridiculous question. It can work in games with multiple servers because region-locks are possible. No such chance in ESO though, you're right. We already had a problem with cheap Russian game time cards.

I agree

Volkodav

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Perhaps they could triple sub/DLC fees for filthy rich Germans instead. After all, the whole point is not to have as many players as possible, but to have players pay as much as possible.

Why would you assume all Germans are filthy rich? I know quite a few non rich German citizens.
As to the issue,it would be nice if they had a way to have payment reflect the rate of exchange in different countries.

Jokerz Fury

This request just isn't right. Even here in the U.S. there are many people who don't make a lot, and as it has been stated above, they move on from that job to get a better paying one. You just have to spend your money wisely and choose what extra things you're planning on purchasing.

JamilaRaj

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Perhaps they could triple sub/DLC fees for filthy rich Germans instead. After all, the whole point is not to have as many players as possible, but to have players pay as much as possible.

Why would you assume all Germans are filthy rich? I know quite a few non rich German citizens.

I would not, but I have a hunch individual pricing will definitely not fly.

Jokerz Fury wrote: »

This request just isn't right. Even here in the U.S. there are many people who don't make a lot, and as it has been stated above, they move on from that job to get a better paying one.

But that is not an universal solution, because if too many ESO players climbed up the ladder, there would be too few people left in low paying jobs to do all necessary work and economy would crumble. Besides, amount of money available for high paying jobs would not increase with amount of workers in those jobs, therefore those jobs would be rendered low paying.

Gargath

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Not necessarily. Suppose 10 players would subscribe if subscription fee was 30 PLN. ZOS woud get 300 PLN.
If subscription fee was 50 PLN, ZOS would break even (in respect to the above) with mere 6 p(l)ayers (and arguably would be better off, because it would have same revenue with lower costs, e.g. it could have smaller CS team as it would not be obliged to answer freeloaders) and would have greater revenue with 7 subscribers and up.
(...)
Besides, large number of lesser players (playing vanilla game as you put it) increase value of various P2W elements in the game for the rich.

First, please avoid your rude language, PLN is not some "barbaric currency" as you put it, but an official currency in one of EU countries.
2-nd, my request was based simply on SWTOR issue. They decided to decreased price for Polish players (I don't know if for other countries too) about 1 year (2012) after global game release (2011), so it's quite a short time. We can say that SWTOR is ruled by similar rules as ESO, so sooner or later will have similar problems.
On Wikipedia SWTOR I can read as follows:

After launch (December 2011), the game's subscribers rose to 1.7 million by February 2012.
By May 2012, those numbers fell to 1.3 million.
By July 2012, the subscriber base fell below 1 million, prompting EA to convert the game to free-to-play.
EA stated that 500,000 subscribers were needed to make the game profitable saying that they were "well above" that number.
On November 15, 2012, the free-to-play option went live on all servers.
As of August 2014 the game has over one million monthly players.

And on Wikipedia ESO:

Metro reported that The Elder Scrolls Online was the top-selling game in the United Kingdom for the week of April 5, 2014, for individual formats, and number two across all formats. When the game was released on consoles, the game once again became the top-selling game in the United Kingdom for the week of June 15, 2015, across all formats, becoming the year's second best-selling game at retail. The game was ranked the best-selling digital PlayStation 4 game of June 2015 in the United States and Europe. In the United States, the game was the second and sixth best-selling game of June and July 2015, respectively.
The game had 772,000 subscribers in June 2014 according to SuperData Research.

Following this I can only assume that ESO can, sooner or later, be ballancing close to level of subscribers needed to make the game profitable. And still, comparing to SWTOR, ESO had almost 2x less players in comparable time a year after release. In my opinion Zenimax now understimates the potential that lies in players undecided, to pay or not pay due to their low wages. It's not an issue of better jobs or better managing our home recources, but it's a matter of what we as customers receive for money we pay. In my opinion current subscription doesn't offer so much to pay so much, but it's my opinion only.
When the time comes and number of bored subscribers will decrease to this level, which will happen as it's always happen with games, I'm sure the fees will drop.
Just started a discussion, hope to see some effects in time...

Rosveen wrote: »

adamtittenbruneb17_ESO wrote: »

Besides that it would be unfair, it could make cheating problems. Players from richer countries could log on using proxy form e.g. polish IP's and buy a game with cheaper price. Your queston is redicolous!

It isn't a ridiculous question. It can work in games with multiple servers because region-locks are possible. No such chance in ESO though, you're right. We already had a problem with cheap Russian game time cards.

It's the same unfair like unfair is living in richer and poorer countries, you can't do much with that. If you have doubts on the server issues, and say it's not possible in ESO, I ask why? SWTOR uses several servers, but all players, Polish, English, German, can log to the same, either Progenitor, The Red Eclipse etc. Nonetheless the fees are different and I didn't read about any region-locks or cheating problems, like people from UK trying to set accounts using PL payments. Please be serious, it works well in other mmo, so it is possible.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

JamilaRaj

Gargath wrote: »

Following this I can only assume that ESO can, sooner or later, be ballancing close to level of subscribers needed to make the game profitable. And still, comparing to SWTOR, ESO had almost 2x less players in comparable time a year after release. In my opinion Zenimax now understimates the potential that lies in players undecided, to pay or not pay due to their low wages. It's not an issue of better jobs or better managing our home recources, but it's a matter of what we as customers receive for money we pay. In my opinion current subscription doesn't offer so much to pay so much, but it's my opinion only.
When the time comes and number of bored subscribers will decrease to this level, which will happen as it's always happen with games, I'm sure the fees will drop.

ZOS does not need to lower sub fees to collect whatever money players who could not otherwise afford subs have. For that it has the cash shop: if a player can not afford monthly fee, he can e.g. buy every second DLC. It also enables it to milk players who can afford to spend more than just monthly fee. It is simply a more flexible tool than adjusting fees to be higher in areas with presumably more wealthy players and lower elsewhere.
Besides, players who can not afford subs are unlikely to become whales.

Volkodav

JamilaRaj wrote: »

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Perhaps they could triple sub/DLC fees for filthy rich Germans instead. After all, the whole point is not to have as many players as possible, but to have players pay as much as possible.

Why would you assume all Germans are filthy rich? I know quite a few non rich German citizens.

I would not, but I have a hunch individual pricing will definitely not fly.

Actually you said "filthy rich Germans".Which is why I asked the question.

svartorn

As an American, I'd pay a little more for the game if it meant it was cheaper in poorer countries.

Botak

This is true. Steam on my country is cheaper than US/EU prices.
Prices on crown was much cheaper on steam when they offered it before. it's like half of the price of what's being offered through eso website.

Jitterbug

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Perhaps they could triple sub/DLC fees for filthy rich Germans instead. After all, the whole point is not to have as many players as possible, but to have players pay as much as possible.

Gargath

JamilaRaj wrote: »

ZOS does not need to lower sub fees to collect whatever money players who could not otherwise afford subs have. For that it has the cash shop: if a player can not afford monthly fee, he can e.g. buy every second DLC. It also enables it to milk players who can afford to spend more than just monthly fee. It is simply a more flexible tool than adjusting fees to be higher in areas with presumably more wealthy players and lower elsewhere.
Besides, players who can not afford subs are unlikely to become whales.

I'm not talking about people who cannot afford subscription at all, but those who can, but negotiating. As I wrote before, I was SWTOR subscriber for about 1 year, paying monthly fee on a level matched with my region purchasing power, which was fair for my country.
I believe many more players wish to be ESO PLUS members, just need a better offer from Zenimax, that's all. The company should understand the differences between countries, just like EA already did, and find a way to match their product value with local wages, in order for new profits.
The question is why the issue is bothering so much people who can afford the fee without problem? If you can afford it, pay it and be happy. This request is for the countries that cannot pay or that think the fee is too high.
Why the old subscribers should even care about decreasing fee for poorer countries. Don't try to be a dog in the manger .

BabeestorGor

Are ZOS costs any lower because a customer is in Poland? Their staff are based in the US mainly (with CS in Eire) so their salary bill and other costs will remain the same regardless of where the customer is based. What you're effectively asking is that people in US and Western Europe subsidise your gaming. Not all of us are well-paid you know. Both the US and UK have high levels of income inequality so you can't assume that we are all better off than you.

Gargath

I know that in all countries of this world live poorer and richer people, but I'm not talking about single persons but region purchasing power. To understand correctly check this source.
People from poorer country either buy the product in lower price or won't buy it at all. It's the seller who decides what is more profitable.

I'm not asking for anyone to subsidise my gaming - in fact that's ridiculous to think it that way .
I bought this game by real money and I like it, playing my way, now I only try to "negotiate" the price for other payable options. It's up to ZOS to see this voice and maybe in time to make decisions for this region.

One more time I'll give an example of SWTOR... Do you think anyone from US or Western EU cares that some people are paying less for their game? If they can play before wider audience and can meet new friends from all over the world, not only the richer, why should negate this. I'm in UK guilds there and I was talking about payments with my guild mates. They did not share such opinions about "subsidising" in any way, they were very happy we could make all the activities, available for subs, together.
You or any other player from US or Western Europe have no interest in opposing such request, since it doesn't concern your region.
Anyway any new customer paying for sub is a profit for ZOS, no matter the price. Period.

BabeestorGor

Gargath wrote: »

I know that in all countries of this world live poorer and richer people, but I'm not talking about single persons but region purchasing power. To understand correctly check this source.
People from poorer country either buy the product in lower price or won't buy it at all. It's the seller who decides what is more profitable.

I'm not asking for anyone to subsidise my gaming - in fact that's ridiculous to think it that way .
I bought this game by real money and I like it, playing my way, now I only try to "negotiate" the price for other payable options. It's up to ZOS to see this voice and maybe in time to make decisions for this region.

One more time I'll give an example of SWTOR... Do you think anyone from US or Western EU cares that some people are paying less for their game? If they can play before wider audience and can meet new friends from all over the world, not only the richer, why should negate this. I'm in UK guilds there and I was talking about payments with my guild mates. They did not share such opinions about "subsidising" in any way, they were very happy we could make all the activities, available for subs, together.
You or any other player from US or Western Europe have no interest in opposing such request, since it doesn't concern your region.
Anyway any new customer paying for sub is a profit for ZOS, no matter the price. Period.

If ZOS decide as a business decision to lower prices for a particular region or country I've no problem with that, its their decision. So long as we aren't talking about people from particular regions or countries deserving to have it cheaper. Anyone buying a game already has a pc or console so they obviously aren't in poverty.