Wrecking Blow - How to counter the spam

TheNephilimCrow

So, there have been countless nerf threads. I am fully against nerf threads of any kind and really think majority of issues come from not fully understanding counters and game mechanics. With that said, I have a question for you...


What kind of counters can a player use against the spammable attack known as Wrecking Blow?

Please keep the trolling to a minimum, I.E. Zero is the minimum.

Armitas

All you can really do is fight to stay behind them. They can counter this tactic fairly easily, but most are simply satisfied to stand still and press 1 button rather than try to counter the movement so it works more often then not. I fought WB spammer reroll #3048 and he hit me like twice in 2minutes. Run across the real deal though and you are going to get hit with every one and it won't take many.

terrasight

Running against them... that's what I do...

Asmael

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

So, there have been countless nerf threads. I am fully against nerf threads of any kind and really think majority of issues come from not fully understanding counters and game mechanics. With that said, I have a question for you...


What kind of counters can a player use against the spammable attack known as Wrecking Blow?

Please keep the trolling to a minimum, I.E. Zero is the minimum.

Negative trolling counts? *runs*

--

Magicka sorcerers don't have that many issues: standing between a WB spammer and an atronach (or another pet), using mines and Streak as soon as he sees the dude winding WB.

Magicka NBs have no issues at all: Crippling grasp, slowing down, cloaking, kiting to death..., CC-ing with Mass Hysteria...

Magicka DKs have more issues, but that's because their stamina downright sucks. Best option is usually to root the WB spammer and stay behind him as much as possible, combining Cinder Storm and Talons, all while blocking.

Magicka Templars... Hnnng. I'm not going to say that WB spammers are the one reason I'm using SnB on mine but that's definitely an absolute pain to deal with. That said I don't play magicka temp that much, so I'll let others give their ideas.

Stamina sorcerers... Fight fire with fire I guess? I'm not running one, but being the first to use WB is the win condition. Probably. I'm pretty sure you could be running SnB with animation cancelled Deep slash, combined with Reverberating Bash. Or bow with Magnum shot for that matter.

Stamina NBs don't even need to worry about it, just use your mobility, SA and cloak.

Stamina DKs are pretty much like stamina sorcs.

Stamina Templars don't deserve to exist and shall be WB'd to death anyway (way to say it's probably the same as stam sorc / DK).

--

TL;DR: main issue is for magicka templars and magicka DKs, who have downright sh****y stamina since IC.

AfkNinja

Asmael wrote: »

"Stamina Templar's don't deserve to exist"

This hurts as Stamplar is my favorite class. I ended up rerolling Stamina Sorc recently and it makes me have a huge sad.

willymchilybily

The best defence is a good offence. Counters are a little dependent on your class/damage cloak/shadowy image/bolt or use hard CC knock backs and stuns. the secret is to not run away if you can avoid it until you can hard CC them.

I'm not certain but also believe the attack area is a conical so the closer you are to them the easier you can side step/circle around the charging WB. Though through them is best

Probably wont work on pc as mouse sensitivity is better than joystick, but on console also 3 of the 5 skills are buttons requiring the user to take their thumb off the turn/look joystick. If they are literately spamming (button bashing) and the WB isn't on the L1/R1 buttons they will also have trouble tracking you when you are close to them. if you are further away from you they can strafe to keep you in range/LoS. if to far they will just crit charge. So staying close and circling them until you can hard CC.

similarly immobilizing and snares are good. Bombard and Talons in particular immobilize without granting CC immunity. So if they have CC immunity you can still use those which then means they cant actually turn, so they cant track you as you strafe around out of their WB. Likely they will dodge roll crit charge and try again, but it buys you time and wastes their CC immunity,

Gern_Verkheart

You can walk through the guy using WB, it cancels the attack and makes him have to re-cast it. This is made easier by the fact that his movement speed is reduced while casting.

I always laugh when people try to run around me or away from me when I'm using WB, that is not an effective tactic. Walk through me, that will give you the advantage to kill me.

Alucardo

I'm going to be completely honest and say I was beaten by a stam sorc that used a total of 3 spells (4 including thundering presence).
I was on my magicka sorc, and this guy played extremely offensive. Always up in my face with crit rush, smashing me around with wrecking blow, and when I was below 50%, he just chased me around with executioner.
I felt pretty bad, if I'm honest. This guy had zero tactic, yet by using 3 skills outplayed me. Twice.

Gern_Verkheart

Alucardo wrote: »

I'm going to be completely honest and say I was beaten by a stam sorc that used a total of 3 spells (4 including thundering presence).
I was on my magicka sorc, and this guy played extremely offensive. Always up in my face with crit rush, smashing me around with wrecking blow, and when I was below 50%, he just chased me around with executioner.
I felt pretty bad, if I'm honest. This guy had zero tactic, yet by using 3 skills outplayed me. Twice.

Lol, that might have been me. That is exactly how I play.

AfkNinja

Alucardo wrote: »

I'm going to be completely honest and say I was beaten by a stam sorc that used a total of 3 spells (4 including thundering presence).
I was on my magicka sorc, and this guy played extremely offensive. Always up in my face with crit rush, smashing me around with wrecking blow, and when I was below 50%, he just chased me around with executioner.
I felt pretty bad, if I'm honest. This guy had zero tactic, yet by using 3 skills outplayed me. Twice.

I wouldn't say he played without skill. He went full pressure on you and you folded. Why would he adjust his strategy when it was working?

oibam

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

What kind of counters can a player use against the spammable attack known as Wrecking Blow?

move, bash, dodge, block, immovable pot/buff, stun, streak, cloak

Okay, if the first WB lands and you are down on the ground...you're in big trouble...so try to avoid the first WB

Alucardo

AfkNinja wrote: »

I wouldn't say he played without skill. He went full pressure on you and you folded. Why would he adjust his strategy when it was working?

I didn't say he should adjust it. If it works, why fix it?

Alucardo

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

Lol, that might have been me. That is exactly how I play.

Heh, a lot of stam sorcs play this way. They don't have many other damage skills to make use of. We need to duel so I can learn to counter this crap in any case

americansteel

magic users are worried about this so called OP wrecking blow a stam user uses, a stam user complains about the OP shield stacking and abilities sorcs have now compile that up with many sorc players with a huge amount of CP who really is OP?


seems to be balanced to me.

Orchish

It's quite simple to counter in a 1v1. You just keep walking into him. Never stand still, i have been forced to use WB on my Stam DK due to a lack of stam whip. Every time i come up against a competent player he will easily avoid half my wrecking blows. I do the same against a WB spammer. When the server is laggy it can be almost impossible to cast this ability as well making it even easier to counter. The only time this skill becomes really annoying to me is when i have multiple opponents spamming it on me. That's just annoying though, not OP.

Alucardo

americansteel wrote: »

seems to be balanced to me.

Pretty much. For me it's all about experience. I duel a fair bit, but I've never duelled a wrecking blow spamming stam sorc. I've met them in 1v1 or groups before, but haven't had the chance to actively learn from them properly, so countering this type of build is pretty difficult.

TheNephilimCrow

Has anyone simply tried using the Block button? It works in PvE. Would it not be effective in PvP? I even imagine the knock down effect would be in place for successfully blocking it. Not sure if there is an official term for it, but its when blocking the attack you can charge a heavy attack to knock the enemy down.

americansteel

Alucardo wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

seems to be balanced to me.

Pretty much. For me it's all about experience. I duel a fair bit, but I've never duelled a wrecking blow spamming stam sorc. I've met them in 1v1 or groups before, but haven't had the chance to actively learn from them properly, so countering this type of build is pretty difficult.

I have had a few run ins with WB users I fair well or decently I just keep blocking and use my talons.

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

Has anyone simply tried using the Block button? It works in PvE. Would it not be effective in PvP? I even imagine the knock down effect would be in place for successfully blocking it. Not sure if there is an official term for it, but its when blocking the attack you can charge a heavy attack to knock the enemy down.

I don't think many know how to block or use CC in PvP
im a magic DK DPS that's the first I do in PvP to stam users talons and block.

usmcjdking

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

Has anyone simply tried using the Block button? It works in PvE. Would it not be effective in PvP? I even imagine the knock down effect would be in place for successfully blocking it. Not sure if there is an official term for it, but its when blocking the attack you can charge a heavy attack to knock the enemy down.

No where near as effective. The gap between WB spam in PVE is like a legitimate loooong time. In PVP it's like 1 second and it takes away a boat load of your stamina if you aren't in 5pc Heavy & S&B.

Alucardo

americansteel wrote: »

I don't think many know how to block or use CC in PvP
im a magic DK DPS that's the first I do in PvP to stam users talons and block.

I'd love to watch you fight a seasoned wrecking blow spammer if all you do is spam talons and block, running yourself out of magicka and stamina pretty quickly.
A good stam build will know that stam is a magicka's build weakness and wear them down as fast as possible. Once you're run dry from all the blocking, they will WB you to the ground constantly and you won't be able to get back up.
Not saying it's impossible to kill someone like this, but don't make it sound easier than it is.

Farorin

Roll dodge and/or blocking is what I use when I come across WB spammers, that or some sort of CC immunity like the heavy armour skill, depending on what character I am playing. Also, pre-emptively using break-free helps as well.

Also, as I am sure others have said, position yourself to avoid the WB.

TheNephilimCrow

See, others need to know this information. I've tired all suggested above and it all works perfectly. Nerf threads don't need to exist.

Ariisen

Are you a Nightblade? Fear then cloak.

Cody

Snare them; it will make it easier to keep behind them and to run thru them, preventing them from landing a hit. Every class and even most of the weapons have a snaring ability or morph:)

in fact, DW should be able to do this nicely thanks to twin slashes if it's DoT go's thru block(someone told me they do now, is this true? If so I have some ideas for a new stamblade build) the DoT does good damage, the ability is cheap, and its morph, rending slashes, snares for 50%(or it did last I used it) countering WB should be easy if you use an ability like that.

However, it does not mean WB spam is not an issue. Being able to spam a skill 10+ consecutive times in a game that's supposed to be based on resource management is an issue

Koloki

Alucardo wrote: »

I'm going to be completely honest and say I was beaten by a stam sorc that used a total of 3 spells (4 including thundering presence).
I was on my magicka sorc, and this guy played extremely offensive. Always up in my face with crit rush, smashing me around with wrecking blow, and when I was below 50%, he just chased me around with executioner.
I felt pretty bad, if I'm honest. This guy had zero tactic, yet by using 3 skills outplayed me. Twice.

Sorry to play devil's advocate, but you say he had zero tactic when you just described his tactic.
"played extremely offensive. Always up in my face with crit rush, smashing me around with wrecking blow"

Counter this tactic, use immovable pots for WB, stay out o crit rush range with streak/roll dodge and CC him with cristal frags.
You can avoid WB just by moving around, it takes 1 sec to wind up, just move strait trough him.

Ahzek

@Cody resource management went out of the window with CP. The game is more about stacking damage and applying it properly now. And in many cases applying it properly is just to spam uppercut.

Malmai

Asmael wrote: »

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

So, there have been countless nerf threads. I am fully against nerf threads of any kind and really think majority of issues come from not fully understanding counters and game mechanics. With that said, I have a question for you...


What kind of counters can a player use against the spammable attack known as Wrecking Blow?

Please keep the trolling to a minimum, I.E. Zero is the minimum.

Negative trolling counts? *runs*

--

Magicka sorcerers don't have that many issues: standing between a WB spammer and an atronach (or another pet), using mines and Streak as soon as he sees the dude winding WB.

Magicka NBs have no issues at all: Crippling grasp, slowing down, cloaking, kiting to death..., CC-ing with Mass Hysteria...

Magicka DKs have more issues, but that's because their stamina downright sucks. Best option is usually to root the WB spammer and stay behind him as much as possible, combining Cinder Storm and Talons, all while blocking.

Magicka Templars... Hnnng. I'm not going to say that WB spammers are the one reason I'm using SnB on mine but that's definitely an absolute pain to deal with. That said I don't play magicka temp that much, so I'll let others give their ideas.

Stamina sorcerers... Fight fire with fire I guess? I'm not running one, but being the first to use WB is the win condition. Probably. I'm pretty sure you could be running SnB with animation cancelled Deep slash, combined with Reverberating Bash. Or bow with Magnum shot for that matter.

Stamina NBs don't even need to worry about it, just use your mobility, SA and cloak.

Stamina DKs are pretty much like stamina sorcs.

Stamina Templars don't deserve to exist and shall be WB'd to death anyway (way to say it's probably the same as stam sorc / DK).

--

TL;DR: main issue is for magicka templars and magicka DKs, who have downright sh****y stamina since IC.

You have to be joking do you know skill named Fossilize ? DK is best right after Sorc for CCing...

Asmael

Malmai wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

So, there have been countless nerf threads. I am fully against nerf threads of any kind and really think majority of issues come from not fully understanding counters and game mechanics. With that said, I have a question for you...


What kind of counters can a player use against the spammable attack known as Wrecking Blow?

Please keep the trolling to a minimum, I.E. Zero is the minimum.

Negative trolling counts? *runs*

--

Magicka sorcerers don't have that many issues: standing between a WB spammer and an atronach (or another pet), using mines and Streak as soon as he sees the dude winding WB.

Magicka NBs have no issues at all: Crippling grasp, slowing down, cloaking, kiting to death..., CC-ing with Mass Hysteria...

Magicka DKs have more issues, but that's because their stamina downright sucks. Best option is usually to root the WB spammer and stay behind him as much as possible, combining Cinder Storm and Talons, all while blocking.

Magicka Templars... Hnnng. I'm not going to say that WB spammers are the one reason I'm using SnB on mine but that's definitely an absolute pain to deal with. That said I don't play magicka temp that much, so I'll let others give their ideas.

Stamina sorcerers... Fight fire with fire I guess? I'm not running one, but being the first to use WB is the win condition. Probably. I'm pretty sure you could be running SnB with animation cancelled Deep slash, combined with Reverberating Bash. Or bow with Magnum shot for that matter.

Stamina NBs don't even need to worry about it, just use your mobility, SA and cloak.

Stamina DKs are pretty much like stamina sorcs.

Stamina Templars don't deserve to exist and shall be WB'd to death anyway (way to say it's probably the same as stam sorc / DK).

--

TL;DR: main issue is for magicka templars and magicka DKs, who have downright sh****y stamina since IC.

You have to be joking do you know skill named Fossilize ? DK is best right after Sorc for CCing...

Yes I know that. I also know that Fossilize has absolutely no effect on someone who's running a sh*tload of stam regeneration who is quick at CC-breaking + dodge roll, or who runs immovable pots and / or Immovable and / or Shuffle.

I am not talking about the average WB spammer, I'm talking about someone running stampede, use a heavy attack in his WBs, time his blocks, make sure you never have the opportunity to go through him and actually knows what he is doing.

The average WB spammer is usually so slow to react he dies in seconds.

Armitas

Cody wrote: »

Snare them; it will make it easier to keep behind them and to run thru them, preventing them from landing a hit. Every class and even most of the weapons have a snaring ability or morph:)

It wont work because of shuffle and forward momentum. Stamina and the Two Handed line ensures that you will not have to worry about snares. I have no idea why Stamina holds the sole privilege of managing CC.

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

Has anyone simply tried using the Block button? It works in PvE. Would it not be effective in PvP? I even imagine the knock down effect would be in place for successfully blocking it. Not sure if there is an official term for it, but its when blocking the attack you can charge a heavy attack to knock the enemy down.

You can block it casually, but you can't sustain it. Even so the animation is so wrong that you can block it and still get knocked down.

F7sus4

I actually don't have problems avoiding Wrecking Blows. But I must admit that the amount of effort you need to succeed is quite disproportionate to the effort WB spammer does, which is mindlessly pressing 1 button.

usmcjdking

I don't find WB to be an issue UNLESS it's more than 1 player. The amount of stamina it consumes to beat them down is tremendous.

The tactic I use is as follows:

-Block initial WB
-Roll away on follow-up WB
-Snare or Charge/Snare
-Roll through
-Keep distance and use explosive burst damage if melee (as a Temp Tank I use POTL, Focused Charge, Pierce Armor, Low Slash, Emp Sweep) instead of trying to stand in front and do the damage.

This requires a TON of regen as well. Will want at least 1k stam 1k health regen.