Why the guild raids don't invite randoms?

Jura23

When I'm in Cyro, I often see guild raids running around and on the same time ppl begging for invite in zone chat. And those are often also good players that are high in the ranking, but they usually won't get an invite. What's the problem? And if you are a guild raider, do you invite random ppl to your group too?

AhPook_Is_Here

People protect their ap/h first and foremost; and next random players don't know how to play with a specific group or don't listen. I can see you are on EU so maybe the culture is different there. One of the things that really made guilds like Havoc great on NA servers was outstanding leadership, you had a group of people that trust a leader, don't 2nd guess them and never lose faith in their decisions and start acting out on their own. Randoms don't have that loyalty and respect and they reduce the effectiveness of the group, even if they are talented individual players.

Ghostbane

This is like a football coach saying "yes" to a randomer in the car park asking if he can play. The randomer could be a football god, or a guaranteed disaster.

Guild groups core are normally people who constantly play with one another. Everyone knows their job, and what not to do. They know the calls, and what is expected of them.

Guilds also normally don't take randomers because they have their own waiting list within the guild itself. Jimmy the Templar is just back from vacation, 2 weeks of his kids melting his face, just got past the Azura's Q of 300+ and the guild group is still full. Can't wait to hop in. Spot opens, Walter the Nightblade gets it from zone.

Naturally upset, Jimmy starts eating a lot more bread and cookies than he needs too, over time he is drastically overweight. His wife leaves him as she can't stand the flatulence, the kids won't speak to him because he looks like Santa Claus and never has any presents.

Every time I see a pile of LFG's in zone, and people complaining about no groups. I always remind them with, "Think of Jimmy and start your own *** group"

Sanct16

I guess it is because most randoms run builds that useless in a raid.

Sublime

Guild groups usually only play with their guild members as it is a heck of a lot of work to incorporate a new member into an already working team.

If you'd like to join those raids, I'd suggest to join a guild first and get in ts with them.

In 1.5 it used to be a lot easier to choo choo around so you could easily invite ppl from zonechat without trashing the server, now you have to make sure ppl are worth the server load they add. And sometimes they might simply not feel like inviting randoms.

Jura23

Sublime wrote: »

Guild groups usually only play with their guild members as it is a heck of a lot of work to incorporate a new member into an already working team.

If you'd like to join those raids, I'd suggest to join a guild first and get in ts with them.

In 1.5 it used to be a lot easier to choo choo around so you could easily invite ppl from zonechat without trashing the server, now you have to make sure ppl are worth the server load they add. And sometimes they might simply not feel like inviting randoms.

I don't see how an extra blade can hurt the cooperation of the team unless it's a complete moron who goes unstealth when everybody is stealth, for example. But I can agree with the rest of your post that the state of performance is forcing groups to consider how large they gonna be.

WillhelmBlack

Jura23 wrote: »

When I'm in Cyro, I often see guild raids running around and on the same time ppl begging for invite in zone chat. And those are often also good players that are high in the ranking, but they usually won't get an invite. What's the problem? And if you are a guild raider, do you invite random ppl to your group too?

We do, and if they are regular we invite them into the guild. We're not your typical raid group though, we do our own thing so TS is a must.

Sanct16 wrote: »

I guess it is because most randoms run builds that useless in a raid.

When against these guy's ^^, we don't like players in group doing anything silly.

Ishammael

Jura23 wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

Guild groups usually only play with their guild members as it is a heck of a lot of work to incorporate a new member into an already working team.

If you'd like to join those raids, I'd suggest to join a guild first and get in ts with them.

In 1.5 it used to be a lot easier to choo choo around so you could easily invite ppl from zonechat without trashing the server, now you have to make sure ppl are worth the server load they add. And sometimes they might simply not feel like inviting randoms.

I don't see how an extra blade can hurt the cooperation of the team unless it's a complete moron who goes unstealth when everybody is stealth, for example. But I can agree with the rest of your post that the state of performance is forcing groups to consider how large they gonna be.

There are a huge list of reason why not to invite randoms. I suggest you think a bit harder.

MountainHound

So when I first log in I will start a group that allows anyone to join and that does not require team speak (but I try and encourage it. As a leader it is 10x easier if I see a group massing to say where to go than take 10 seconds to type "get to x").

I will constantly say to everyone, "Please stay on the crown". Now you may say OMG zerg! but if we are at Ash, what is the point in having 4 people in Chalman? If I am on the south east side of ash looking at an AD force massing, what is the point of having 5 people north of Ash? I use a 3 strike rule, if you are not with me on the 3rd strike that I do a roll call, I will remove you from the group. Not because I'm an ***, but if you are in a group that is down south, and you are up north, join a different group?

Now most of the time people oblige and join team speak and are on crown and I don't care if you are v1 or v16 (Anything less than v1 you should be leveling up...), if you are in Team speak and on crown, you are safe. However once I have guild members that are looking for a group, I will prioritize those people over random people from zone. So if I am a full group, whenever I gain spaces I will offer those to guild players first.

Once we have a lot of guildees LFG I will then do a team speak check and ask people to either get on team speak and that if they can't to remove themselves from the group.

In our guild we have 270 active members. We have a core group for the serious pro gamers of 12-16 that is realy strict, then we normally have 1 or 2 groups made up of guildees depending on how many people we have online that can run groups. We personally try to run serious, guild and relaxed groups to try and cater for the masses.

MountainHound

I mean as said lots before, if you are willing to join a guild and play with them constantly for a couple of days/weeks and are able to switch your build around to cater for the group instead of yourself that is awesome. 9/10 a random person from zone joining will not change the way they play and adapt.

Also you need to consider healing and other buffs, it sounds selfish but if you have a decent group of v16s with top gear, 4 healers and 12 dps, if you start to incorporate more dps into the fray say v1 who are "weaker", you will be "leeching" the heals away from the stronger v16 players damaging that groups ability to play against the other top teams. Believe it or not, this is a group's worst nightmare when randoms are among your ranks leeching heals away from the group...

Jura23

MountainHound wrote: »

I mean as said lots before, if you are willing to join a guild and play with them constantly for a couple of days/weeks and are able to switch your build around to cater for the group instead of yourself that is awesome. 9/10 a random person from zone joining will not change the way they play and adapt.

Also you need to consider healing and other buffs, it sounds selfish but if you have a decent group of v16s with top gear, 4 healers and 12 dps, if you start to incorporate more dps into the fray say v1 who are "weaker", you will be "leeching" the heals away from the stronger v16 players damaging that groups ability to play against the other top teams. Believe it or not, this is a group's worst nightmare when randoms are among your ranks leeching heals away from the group...

I can see your point, but that's problem of game design that doesn't allow you to target heals. They certainly didn't choose to steal your heals. Everybody is punished by this mechanic.

Gilvoth

be glad those ones dont invite you my friend.
they force people to do things that allways end up with You waiting some where in stealth not moving and zero AP gain. just siting and waiting for hours on end doing nothing but listening to them talk and talk and talk and talk and talk.
in the end, the groups that DO pick you up that are good people, that allways let you alone, and THOSE are the good groups because everyone loves to follow the crown and do good in those groups. constant AP and constant action, and leader of the group never speaks.

Armitas

Adding the wrong people to your group can actually hurt it. When I fight a group outnumbered I focus on the weakest links, not skill wise but group wise, and drag them through a series of mistakes that eventually finds its way through the whole group leading to their wipe. Just a week ago I wiped a group 4v25 through the same methods. Weak links in the chain destroy the whole chain. Numbers don't make a group, its the people in it that make the group.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

High in rankings does not mean anyone is a good plyaer, lol. The groups I run with never invite random people, you just don't know what they bring to the table.

Anazasi

Might seem odd but maybe players should ask to join a pvp guild. I know a few of the guilds are willing to try new players out to see if they are capable and what not. You also have to recognize that a lot of the raids are guild only. Meaning when a group is getting to prime time they know they are going to fill 24 slots with a waiting list. Other group leaders find it easier to run smaller groups of 16 instead of the 24; I should point out as a group leader running 16 is so much easier than 24, players are more responsive and the confusion is not so high. While I wont limit my groups to 16 because of the guild I run with it certainly is a factor with some groups.

Don't be discouraged just start asking to get in a guild that pvp's on a regular basis. I typically run est coast time afternoons and have a nice core of about 12 to 14 players on during my lead spot. I would be happy to invite a few v14 or higher to guild or group.

Wollust

Well.. there is a reason it's called a guild raid.. like GUILD. You know. Being part of the guild to play together.
And it's also quite simple: You perform almost always better as a group if you know each other and have been playing with each other for quite some time.

Alomar

I can tell you from experience, if you really want to join "one of these guild raid groups" find one you respect and like to play with. Then follow them around like white on rice, use a good build that works with their strategies, simple observation over time can do this, and synergize well with their group and keep up during fights. If you do this right and consistently over time you'll become noticed, many of these guilds aren't actively recruiting. Yet, when they see talent right in front of their face over and over they often pick it up, we did in Havoc several times and have in Haxus now as well.

Ishammael

Alomar wrote: »

I can tell you from experience, if you really want to join "one of these guild raid groups" find one you respect and like to play with. Then follow them around like white on rice, use a good build that works with their strategies, simple observation over time can do this, and synergize well with their group and keep up during fights. If you do this right and consistently over time you'll become noticed, many of these guilds aren't actively recruiting. Yet, when they see talent right in front of their face over and over they often pick it up, we did in Havoc several times and have in Haxus now as well.

This is good advice.

Sarousse

The answer is in post title. It's a guild. Join them or watch them.

Talcyndl

Because you never know if the PUG has prox det unlocked and steel tornado leveled.

Soulac

Cause they're randoms.

Maidenname

Sarousse wrote: »

The answer is in post title. It's a guild. Join them or watch them.

..or you can tag behind them, stealth around them like ninja to leech off some AP...but...

....Don't expect rezz if you get killed, coz high chances you won't get Rez unless they know you have been following them discreetly and they may take pity on you...

.....Pls don't get give them away with caltrops, breath of life, mutagen, healing springs and all other visible buffs that expose them even in matter of 2 secs ...or that will *** them off and you get no pity from them...

Otherwise, most likely, they don't invite randoms.....

Nafirian

Randoms are just plain annoying and High ranks dont mean nothin.

AbraXuSeXile

I dont like inviting randoms but sometimes ill give people a run in the group.

MountainHound

Maidenname wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

The answer is in post title. It's a guild. Join them or watch them.

..or you can tag behind them, stealth around them like ninja to leech off some AP...but...

....Don't expect rezz if you get killed, coz high chances you won't get Rez unless they know you have been following them discreetly and they may take pity on you...

.....Pls don't get give them away with caltrops, breath of life, mutagen, healing springs and all other visible buffs that expose them even in matter of 2 secs ...or that will *** them off and you get no pity from them...

Otherwise, most likely, they don't invite randoms.....

This is good advice. If I see someone casting on us whilst we are in stealth or do something silly like take a flag when a team has run inside a tower to farm, 9/10 if I am in a battle and I see there name dead I will not rez as I won't risk my life for more retardness.

Obviously however if there is no one around I will always rez a fellow DC member

If anyone in DC/NA/PC is reading this thread and wants to join a PVP guild PM me here and I will sort you out an invite.

Anazasi

Maidenname wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

The answer is in post title. It's a guild. Join them or watch them.

..or you can tag behind them, stealth around them like ninja to leech off some AP...but...

....Don't expect rezz if you get killed, coz high chances you won't get Rez unless they know you have been following them discreetly and they may take pity on you...

.....Pls don't get give them away with caltrops, breath of life, mutagen, healing springs and all other visible buffs that expose them even in matter of 2 secs ...or that will *** them off and you get no pity from them...

Otherwise, most likely, they don't invite randoms.....

sound advice but I know most of the AD groups do rez players not in group with them when the A have time or B when they are told by group leaders.

For myself I always rez players when I have the chance just please take it right away and don't tie them up. This is the one reason players don't get rez'd when not in group.

OrphanHelgen

I have been running around with friends of mine in a small group.
We where chatting and having fun.
Thats the main reason why I dont invite randoms, because I like small group with friends.
Ofcourse if I want to be more social, I invite, or if we really need a larger group for the sake of tryharding.

Forestd16b14_ESO

And this is why I like to PUG don't meet to many elitest arse hole guildys.

Zheg

Not all randoms want to play as often, as long, or as seriously as some guild groups. There are pug pvp guilds in every alliance on NA PC that will allow you to just X up in zone, but for obvious reasons these groups tend to struggle when they go against organized guild groups.

Pugs sometimes don't want to run needed group skills/gear and builds, don't want to get in ts, don't listen, don't stay near crown, don't siege, don't lots of stuff. It's already been pointed out, but if you're running next to our group for the night and not doing stupid stuff, chances are you'll have a high chance of getting in when there's enough room in group to make sure a guildy isn't denied a spot.

Most of our core started out as pugs (or still are...), so it's not to say all pugs are bad or can't be taught.

Unfortunately, some of the guild groups have strong egos and won't want to run with a random unless it's forced upon them, and some have a specific number of people they'll only allow in a group before they think they turn into a 'zerg'.

Bottom line, be decent and just ask. Probably easier if you try later in the night after prime time when there are more open slots in group.

Whether or not pvp guilds realize it, at this stage of the game, all fresh blood will need to come from pugs that you'll need to train. Players from the glory days aren't coming back, and you're not going to get some random prodigy any more. If your numbers are dwindling, train people.

KenaPKK

Ghostbane wrote: »

This is like a football coach saying "yes" to a randomer in the car park asking if he can play. The randomer could be a football god, or a guaranteed disaster.

Guild groups core are normally people who constantly play with one another. Everyone knows their job, and what not to do. They know the calls, and what is expected of them.

Guilds also normally don't take randomers because they have their own waiting list within the guild itself. Jimmy the Templar is just back from vacation, 2 weeks of his kids melting his face, just got past the Azura's Q of 300+ and the guild group is still full. Can't wait to hop in. Spot opens, Walter the Nightblade gets it from zone.

Naturally upset, Jimmy starts eating a lot more bread and cookies than he needs too, over time he is drastically overweight. His wife leaves him as she can't stand the flatulence, the kids won't speak to him because he looks like Santa Claus and never has any presents.

Every time I see a pile of LFG's in zone, and people complaining about no groups. I always remind them with, "Think of Jimmy and start your own *** group"

You are my new favorite person.

Keiryan

Alomar wrote: »

I can tell you from experience, if you really want to join "one of these guild raid groups" find one you respect and like to play with. Then follow them around like white on rice, use a good build that works with their strategies, simple observation over time can do this, and synergize well with their group and keep up during fights. If you do this right and consistently over time you'll become noticed, many of these guilds aren't actively recruiting. Yet, when they see talent right in front of their face over and over they often pick it up, we did in Havoc several times and have in Haxus now as well.

best advice in the post, this is how I've found one of my favourite players in the game, the (formerly Ghey) Baron.

I pick up randoms now and again in off time just because you never know when one might turn out to be a star, but it is rare.

Other best advice I can say is to start your own group and learn how to lead yourself.. make your own core group of players. This game is severely lacking in variety and leadership and it would be nice to see more people out there. This is why I tend to go and lead other groups or train my own members for leadership roles. I think for a healthy PvP community we need to start dispersing from larger raids and create more small to medium sized guilds and more leaders need to be trained. Running in small to medium sized groups also increases the caliber of each member since they no longer rely on the other 23-48 people in their vicinity.