Kagrenacs vs Julianos

  • Derra
    Derra
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    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.
    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Rylana
    Rylana
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    Leandor wrote: »
    olsborg wrote: »
    Spellcrit will be somewhat useless vs someone using hardward, harness/dampen magicka, healing ward or all of the above.
    Considering that Julianos gives you 299 instead of 224 spell damage (an increase of 75 spell damage or 33% of kag's bonus) at the cost of one magicka regen bonus (and a health bonus) even against a shield spammer, I still think the decision is easy.

    Correct, it is easy.

    Kagrenacs is superior.

    Read your own post to figure out why.
    Edited by Rylana on October 28, 2015 7:43PM
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  • Leandor
    Leandor
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    Rylana wrote: »
    Leandor wrote: »
    olsborg wrote: »
    Spellcrit will be somewhat useless vs someone using hardward, harness/dampen magicka, healing ward or all of the above.
    Considering that Julianos gives you 299 instead of 224 spell damage (an increase of 75 spell damage or 33% of kag's bonus) at the cost of one magicka regen bonus (and a health bonus) even against a shield spammer, I still think the decision is easy.

    Correct, it is easy.

    Kagrenacs is superior.

    Read your own post to figure out why.
    To each his own.
  • Ishammael
    Ishammael
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    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.
  • danno8
    danno8
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    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.

    This is good. Arguments means there is no clear BIS, and creates diversity and conversation. I hope to see more.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Well one thing is clear to me. Julianos + Thief mundus is by far the superior choice for PvE. For my Sorc, it fully enables me to go dual destro with AoE on one bar and single target on the other. You can then adjust enchants for sustain, or slot Ele Drain.

    In PvP I always find set discussions a bit superficial because every player likes a different tuning to his sustain/damage ratio not to mention everyone plays in different group setups (solo, small or large-scale) and have different racial/CP passives.

    I personally can't see my self fitting in Julianos for PvP. If I played in a large group where my role was focused on damage while things like Mystic Orbs kept me topped up on magicka...then yes. For solo or small-scale...not for me.

    Considering you can't crit against at least 30% of the populace in Cyrodiil cause of shields/block, then based on my calculations you gain on average somewhere around 3% more damage from Julianos over Kag and that's including the extra spell damage and crit.

    For that tiny, for me, damage increase and because I'm a high elf Sorc with maxed Arcanist and 6 light armor pieces, I'm essentially trading over 200 regen (when passives are accounted for), 1.1k health and faster res speed. Not worth it for me.

    Now regarding TBS, if you're building for crit it can be good as it allows you to choose both Atronach and Thief. I don't see a benefit from going Atro + Apprentice. You will have less regen compared with Kagrenac + Atro and less spell damage.
    Edited by Maulkin on October 29, 2015 10:45AM
    EU | PC | AD
  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
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    Kagrenacs Hope will still be very good for magicka pvp builds, basically everything you need comes from this set.

    Julianos will be superior for pve dps builds because sustain is less of an issue. For my sorc I will probably make a Julianos set because I think it will synergize well with power surge. Hopefully I will get the Maelstrom Fire staff at one point so I can keep using Nerienths.
    Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
    Magna Firebreath - Dunmer Dragon Knight
    Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
    Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
    Septimus Rulanir - Altmer Templar
    Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.

    I´d still take thief as a pvp mundus any day of the week (atleast as a sorc).
    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.

    I´d still take thief as a pvp mundus any day of the week (atleast as a sorc).

    I would always take thief over apprentice, but over atro?

    You either have to sacrifice Kagrenac spell damage for TBS and Atro + Thief, or you have to sacrifice Atro altogether and go for Kagrenac + thief.

    The latter is a very offensive setup and lacks a bit on sustain. Unless you go for drinks but then you take such a hit on primary resources that the damage loss, HP loss, shield-value loss is just too big for my liking. You'd be better off switching to Seducer over Kag and going for food instead of drinks.

    With high CP + kag + thief + food the sustain is good enough and the damage is... well... OP. But it depends how many CPs we're talking about. At +660 it would probably be my setup of choice. But that's 200 CPs away from me and we have a cap inc.
    Edited by Maulkin on October 29, 2015 11:57AM
    EU | PC | AD
  • Ishammael
    Ishammael
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    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.

    I´d still take thief as a pvp mundus any day of the week (atleast as a sorc).

    I would always take thief over apprentice, but over atro?

    You either have to sacrifice Kagrenac spell damage for TBS and Atro + Thief, or you have to sacrifice Atro altogether and go for Kagrenac + thief.

    The latter is a very offensive setup and lacks a bit on sustain. Unless you go for drinks but then you take such a hit on primary resources that the damage loss, HP loss, shield-value loss is just too big for my liking. You'd be better off switching to Seducer over Kag and going for food instead of drinks.

    With high CP + kag + thief + food the sustain is good enough and the damage is... well... OP. But it depends how many CPs we're talking about. At +660 it would probably be my setup of choice. But that's 200 CPs away from me and we have a cap inc.

    Apprentice is clearly inferior compared to Atro or Thief.

    One way to think of it:
    Thief is 11/3.2 = 3.44 spell crit set bonus
    Atro is 210/120 = 1.75 regen set bonus
    Apprentice is 166/129 = 1.29 spell dmg set bonus

    EDIT:
    I would run TBS with Thief as the 5th bonus every day of the week... except that in a huge number of encounters (i.e. shields) the crit bonus is completely negated. Thus is a safer choice, in my opinion, to run Kag's in PvP with Atro mundus (and dmg on your jewelry).
    Edited by Ishammael on October 29, 2015 1:09PM
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.

    I´d still take thief as a pvp mundus any day of the week (atleast as a sorc).

    I would always take thief over apprentice, but over atro?

    You either have to sacrifice Kagrenac spell damage for TBS and Atro + Thief, or you have to sacrifice Atro altogether and go for Kagrenac + thief.

    The latter is a very offensive setup and lacks a bit on sustain. Unless you go for drinks but then you take such a hit on primary resources that the damage loss, HP loss, shield-value loss is just too big for my liking. You'd be better off switching to Seducer over Kag and going for food instead of drinks.

    With high CP + kag + thief + food the sustain is good enough and the damage is... well... OP. But it depends how many CPs we're talking about. At +660 it would probably be my setup of choice. But that's 200 CPs away from me and we have a cap inc.

    Apprentice is clearly inferior compared to Atro or Thief.

    One way to think of it:
    Thief is 11/3.2 = 3.44 spell crit set bonus
    Atro is 210/120 = 1.75 regen set bonus
    Apprentice is 166/129 = 1.29 spell dmg set bonus

    EDIT:
    I would run TBS with Thief as the 5th bonus every day of the week... except that in a huge number of encounters (i.e. shields) the crit bonus is completely negated. Thus is a safer choice, in my opinion, to run Kag's in PvP with Atro mundus (and dmg on your jewelry).

    Wohoo the first time i´ve read someone is also approaching mundus stones (and maybe other bonuses too?!) by translating them into setbonuses <3

    Attro is only 198 and a golden setbonus is 129.

    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.

    I´d still take thief as a pvp mundus any day of the week (atleast as a sorc).

    I would always take thief over apprentice, but over atro?

    You either have to sacrifice Kagrenac spell damage for TBS and Atro + Thief, or you have to sacrifice Atro altogether and go for Kagrenac + thief.

    The latter is a very offensive setup and lacks a bit on sustain. Unless you go for drinks but then you take such a hit on primary resources that the damage loss, HP loss, shield-value loss is just too big for my liking. You'd be better off switching to Seducer over Kag and going for food instead of drinks.

    With high CP + kag + thief + food the sustain is good enough and the damage is... well... OP. But it depends how many CPs we're talking about. At +660 it would probably be my setup of choice. But that's 200 CPs away from me and we have a cap inc.

    Running kag + thief and drink atm with tripleenchants on big pieces :P
    Edited by Derra on October 29, 2015 2:37PM
    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.

    I´d still take thief as a pvp mundus any day of the week (atleast as a sorc).

    I would always take thief over apprentice, but over atro?

    You either have to sacrifice Kagrenac spell damage for TBS and Atro + Thief, or you have to sacrifice Atro altogether and go for Kagrenac + thief.

    The latter is a very offensive setup and lacks a bit on sustain. Unless you go for drinks but then you take such a hit on primary resources that the damage loss, HP loss, shield-value loss is just too big for my liking. You'd be better off switching to Seducer over Kag and going for food instead of drinks.

    With high CP + kag + thief + food the sustain is good enough and the damage is... well... OP. But it depends how many CPs we're talking about. At +660 it would probably be my setup of choice. But that's 200 CPs away from me and we have a cap inc.

    Apprentice is clearly inferior compared to Atro or Thief.

    One way to think of it:
    Thief is 11/3.2 = 3.44 spell crit set bonus
    Atro is 210/120 = 1.75 regen set bonus
    Apprentice is 166/129 = 1.29 spell dmg set bonus

    EDIT:
    I would run TBS with Thief as the 5th bonus every day of the week... except that in a huge number of encounters (i.e. shields) the crit bonus is completely negated. Thus is a safer choice, in my opinion, to run Kag's in PvP with Atro mundus (and dmg on your jewelry).

    Wohoo the first time i´ve read someone is also approaching mundus stones (and maybe other bonuses too?!) by translating them into setbonuses <3

    Attro is only 198 and a golden setbonus is 129.

    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.

    I´d still take thief as a pvp mundus any day of the week (atleast as a sorc).

    I would always take thief over apprentice, but over atro?

    You either have to sacrifice Kagrenac spell damage for TBS and Atro + Thief, or you have to sacrifice Atro altogether and go for Kagrenac + thief.

    The latter is a very offensive setup and lacks a bit on sustain. Unless you go for drinks but then you take such a hit on primary resources that the damage loss, HP loss, shield-value loss is just too big for my liking. You'd be better off switching to Seducer over Kag and going for food instead of drinks.

    With high CP + kag + thief + food the sustain is good enough and the damage is... well... OP. But it depends how many CPs we're talking about. At +660 it would probably be my setup of choice. But that's 200 CPs away from me and we have a cap inc.

    Running kag + thief and drink atm with tripleenchants on big pieces :P

    You can't hold yourself either, can you?
    But you nub, wasting enchants on that set before the patch. :wink:
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    I do like how this is a debate rather than "wear 4 piece Martial Knowledge."

    If ZoS really wanted to make things interesting, the 5th piece bonus for OVerwhelming would be competitive, the Valkyn nerf would be reverted, the elemental succession would be easier to proc (we need cold spells!), etc.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.

    I´d still take thief as a pvp mundus any day of the week (atleast as a sorc).

    I would always take thief over apprentice, but over atro?

    You either have to sacrifice Kagrenac spell damage for TBS and Atro + Thief, or you have to sacrifice Atro altogether and go for Kagrenac + thief.

    The latter is a very offensive setup and lacks a bit on sustain. Unless you go for drinks but then you take such a hit on primary resources that the damage loss, HP loss, shield-value loss is just too big for my liking. You'd be better off switching to Seducer over Kag and going for food instead of drinks.

    With high CP + kag + thief + food the sustain is good enough and the damage is... well... OP. But it depends how many CPs we're talking about. At +660 it would probably be my setup of choice. But that's 200 CPs away from me and we have a cap inc.

    Apprentice is clearly inferior compared to Atro or Thief.

    One way to think of it:
    Thief is 11/3.2 = 3.44 spell crit set bonus
    Atro is 210/120 = 1.75 regen set bonus
    Apprentice is 166/129 = 1.29 spell dmg set bonus

    EDIT:
    I would run TBS with Thief as the 5th bonus every day of the week... except that in a huge number of encounters (i.e. shields) the crit bonus is completely negated. Thus is a safer choice, in my opinion, to run Kag's in PvP with Atro mundus (and dmg on your jewelry).

    Wohoo the first time i´ve read someone is also approaching mundus stones (and maybe other bonuses too?!) by translating them into setbonuses <3

    Attro is only 198 and a golden setbonus is 129.

    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.

    I´d still take thief as a pvp mundus any day of the week (atleast as a sorc).

    I would always take thief over apprentice, but over atro?

    You either have to sacrifice Kagrenac spell damage for TBS and Atro + Thief, or you have to sacrifice Atro altogether and go for Kagrenac + thief.

    The latter is a very offensive setup and lacks a bit on sustain. Unless you go for drinks but then you take such a hit on primary resources that the damage loss, HP loss, shield-value loss is just too big for my liking. You'd be better off switching to Seducer over Kag and going for food instead of drinks.

    With high CP + kag + thief + food the sustain is good enough and the damage is... well... OP. But it depends how many CPs we're talking about. At +660 it would probably be my setup of choice. But that's 200 CPs away from me and we have a cap inc.

    Running kag + thief and drink atm with tripleenchants on big pieces :P

    And how much max magicka do you have without the food and max magicka enchants? I'm sitting at just over 37k max magicka personally on 460 CPs.

    Edited by Maulkin on October 29, 2015 3:43PM
    EU | PC | AD
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.

    I´d still take thief as a pvp mundus any day of the week (atleast as a sorc).

    I would always take thief over apprentice, but over atro?

    You either have to sacrifice Kagrenac spell damage for TBS and Atro + Thief, or you have to sacrifice Atro altogether and go for Kagrenac + thief.

    The latter is a very offensive setup and lacks a bit on sustain. Unless you go for drinks but then you take such a hit on primary resources that the damage loss, HP loss, shield-value loss is just too big for my liking. You'd be better off switching to Seducer over Kag and going for food instead of drinks.

    With high CP + kag + thief + food the sustain is good enough and the damage is... well... OP. But it depends how many CPs we're talking about. At +660 it would probably be my setup of choice. But that's 200 CPs away from me and we have a cap inc.

    Apprentice is clearly inferior compared to Atro or Thief.

    One way to think of it:
    Thief is 11/3.2 = 3.44 spell crit set bonus
    Atro is 210/120 = 1.75 regen set bonus
    Apprentice is 166/129 = 1.29 spell dmg set bonus

    EDIT:
    I would run TBS with Thief as the 5th bonus every day of the week... except that in a huge number of encounters (i.e. shields) the crit bonus is completely negated. Thus is a safer choice, in my opinion, to run Kag's in PvP with Atro mundus (and dmg on your jewelry).

    Wohoo the first time i´ve read someone is also approaching mundus stones (and maybe other bonuses too?!) by translating them into setbonuses <3

    Attro is only 198 and a golden setbonus is 129.

    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.

    I´d still take thief as a pvp mundus any day of the week (atleast as a sorc).

    I would always take thief over apprentice, but over atro?

    You either have to sacrifice Kagrenac spell damage for TBS and Atro + Thief, or you have to sacrifice Atro altogether and go for Kagrenac + thief.

    The latter is a very offensive setup and lacks a bit on sustain. Unless you go for drinks but then you take such a hit on primary resources that the damage loss, HP loss, shield-value loss is just too big for my liking. You'd be better off switching to Seducer over Kag and going for food instead of drinks.

    With high CP + kag + thief + food the sustain is good enough and the damage is... well... OP. But it depends how many CPs we're talking about. At +660 it would probably be my setup of choice. But that's 200 CPs away from me and we have a cap inc.

    Running kag + thief and drink atm with tripleenchants on big pieces :P

    And how much max magicka do you have without the food and max magicka enchants? I'm sitting at just over 37k max magicka personally on 460 CPs.

    I´m playing with 34.500 max magica 19800 health 11800 stam.
    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Ishammael
    Ishammael
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do like how this is a debate rather than "wear 4 piece Martial Knowledge."

    If ZoS really wanted to make things interesting, the 5th piece bonus for OVerwhelming would be competitive, the Valkyn nerf would be reverted, the elemental succession would be easier to proc (we need cold spells!), etc.

    Elemental succession should have simply been "on-off" on a timer: 4s ON +400 dmg all elements, then 4s OFF all elements.
  • Ishammael
    Ishammael
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    Wohoo the first time i´ve read someone is also approaching mundus stones (and maybe other bonuses too?!) by translating them into setbonuses <3

    Attro is only 198 and a golden setbonus is 129.

    Ah well, they've changed them so many times I get mixed up.

    Another reason Atro is so good is that it get multiplied by all +regen bonus (LA, CP, vamp, etc).

    Atro bonus to your char: Atro*Divines*LA*CP*Vamp*Willow's Path*etc.
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ishammael wrote: »
    I do like how this is a debate rather than "wear 4 piece Martial Knowledge."

    If ZoS really wanted to make things interesting, the 5th piece bonus for OVerwhelming would be competitive, the Valkyn nerf would be reverted, the elemental succession would be easier to proc (we need cold spells!), etc.

    Elemental succession should have simply been "on-off" on a timer: 4s ON +400 dmg all elements, then 4s OFF all elements.

    This would have been so much better. Instead i can´t see anyone using this set apart from MAYBE DKs. Still overall 150 spelldmg increase is rather meh.
    Might be worth it with a rotation that´s always applying dots in the fire phase.
    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Ishammael
    Ishammael
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    I do like how this is a debate rather than "wear 4 piece Martial Knowledge."

    If ZoS really wanted to make things interesting, the 5th piece bonus for OVerwhelming would be competitive, the Valkyn nerf would be reverted, the elemental succession would be easier to proc (we need cold spells!), etc.

    Elemental succession should have simply been "on-off" on a timer: 4s ON +400 dmg all elements, then 4s OFF all elements.

    This would have been so much better. Instead i can´t see anyone using this set apart from MAYBE DKs. Still overall 150 spelldmg increase is rather meh.
    Might be worth it with a rotation that´s always applying dots in the fire phase.

    Key word: might
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well on the other hand i like that pretty much all new sets (apart from maelstrom weapons) are option when it comes to the pvp aspect of the game. They did a good job on that imho.
    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Another reason Atro is so good is that it get multiplied by all +regen bonus (LA, CP, vamp, etc).

    Atro bonus to your char: Atro*Divines*LA*CP*Vamp*Willow's Path*etc.

    Which is why you can't see it as a flat multiplier of set bonuses, imo.
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.

    I´d still take thief as a pvp mundus any day of the week (atleast as a sorc).

    I would always take thief over apprentice, but over atro?

    You either have to sacrifice Kagrenac spell damage for TBS and Atro + Thief, or you have to sacrifice Atro altogether and go for Kagrenac + thief.

    The latter is a very offensive setup and lacks a bit on sustain. Unless you go for drinks but then you take such a hit on primary resources that the damage loss, HP loss, shield-value loss is just too big for my liking. You'd be better off switching to Seducer over Kag and going for food instead of drinks.

    With high CP + kag + thief + food the sustain is good enough and the damage is... well... OP. But it depends how many CPs we're talking about. At +660 it would probably be my setup of choice. But that's 200 CPs away from me and we have a cap inc.

    Apprentice is clearly inferior compared to Atro or Thief.

    One way to think of it:
    Thief is 11/3.2 = 3.44 spell crit set bonus
    Atro is 210/120 = 1.75 regen set bonus
    Apprentice is 166/129 = 1.29 spell dmg set bonus

    EDIT:
    I would run TBS with Thief as the 5th bonus every day of the week... except that in a huge number of encounters (i.e. shields) the crit bonus is completely negated. Thus is a safer choice, in my opinion, to run Kag's in PvP with Atro mundus (and dmg on your jewelry).

    Wohoo the first time i´ve read someone is also approaching mundus stones (and maybe other bonuses too?!) by translating them into setbonuses <3

    Attro is only 198 and a golden setbonus is 129.

    Derra wrote: »
    Ishammael wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Should I change the thread to Julianos vs Twice Born Star? TBS is something else I am debating but I would need to farm the crap out of WGT to combo it with the overwhelming pieces.

    There was already a whole 3 page thread on this topic. These guys crunched the numbers and tested in game. TL;DR TBS does not outperform Julianos in the Orsinium update.

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224111/julianos-and-twice-born-star/p1

    Well that topic does state tbs has an ever so slight advantage over julianos dmg wise.

    For pvp i´d go with tbs simply bc i value 1x health 1x stam more than 2x crit as setbonuses.

    check the end results of the thread, the OP concludes:

    "There are significant changes due to to the change in Elfborn. If you are thinking about making Twice-Born, don't."

    Hm last time i visited that was at page two.

    Now i´m sad it wasn´t further specified why tbs is no longer pve competetive.

    They are still arguing about it over at tamriel foundry.

    The problem for pvp arises because shields can't be crit. And TBS was only viable for the thief plus shadow combination.

    I´d still take thief as a pvp mundus any day of the week (atleast as a sorc).

    I would always take thief over apprentice, but over atro?

    You either have to sacrifice Kagrenac spell damage for TBS and Atro + Thief, or you have to sacrifice Atro altogether and go for Kagrenac + thief.

    The latter is a very offensive setup and lacks a bit on sustain. Unless you go for drinks but then you take such a hit on primary resources that the damage loss, HP loss, shield-value loss is just too big for my liking. You'd be better off switching to Seducer over Kag and going for food instead of drinks.

    With high CP + kag + thief + food the sustain is good enough and the damage is... well... OP. But it depends how many CPs we're talking about. At +660 it would probably be my setup of choice. But that's 200 CPs away from me and we have a cap inc.

    Running kag + thief and drink atm with tripleenchants on big pieces :P

    And how much max magicka do you have without the food and max magicka enchants? I'm sitting at just over 37k max magicka personally on 460 CPs.

    I´m playing with 34.500 max magica 19800 health 11800 stam.

    What the hölle? How do you have only 2.5k less! :cold_sweat:

    Food is like 4k alone and I use Max Magicka on the infused big pieces which is another 1.5k more so that's 5.5k total right right there. I use 6l/1h so I'm losing 2% from there but that 2% is not 3k to bridge that gap!

    What am I missing :anguished:
    Edited by Maulkin on October 29, 2015 5:16PM
    EU | PC | AD
  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Tankqull wrote: »
    ToRelax wrote: »
    havok561 wrote: »
    Kagrenacs just seems more balanced. 75 spell power is a decent amount but not sure if in the end it will make a huge difference . I am an average player in pvp sometimes I perform better then other days, I guess we will see but I am leaning towards Kagrenacs hope with Molag Kena Shoulder, Torugs pact staff and head. Twice Born star has always had me curious.

    Let's have a quick breakdown then of 5 Julianos + 3 Willow's Path/3 Kagrenac/2 Willow's Path + 1 Molag Kena vs 5 Kagrenac + 1 Molag Kena + 2 Torug's Pact:

    5 Julianos + 3 Willow's Path:
    2 spell crit + 1 max magicka + 2.3 spell damage + 1 magicka regen + 1 stamina regen

    5 Julianos + 3 Kagrenac (same stats as 3 Seducer/Magnus/Eyes of Mara):
    2 spell crit + 2 max magicka + 2.3 spell damage + 1 magicka regen

    5 Julianos + 1 Molag Kena + 2 Willow's Path (same stats as 2 Seducer/Eyes of Mara):
    2 spell crit + 1 max magicka + 3.3 spell damage + 1 magicka regen

    5 Kagrenac + 1 Molag Kena + 2 Torug's Pact:
    1 max health + 1 max magicka + 3.7 spell damage + 1 magicka regen

    Idk about you, but the Julianos setups seem more balanced to me. ;)
    What Kagrenac has going for it that Julianos doesn't, is the rez speed. If you think that'll be very useful to you, then Kagrenac is probably the better choice.

    what about
    5 kagnacs+ 1 molag kena+ 1bloodspawn + mealstromweapon (s) ?

    No Nirnhoned on the Maelstrom weapon makes it useless to me. adding 60 Bonus spell power for the loss of disease enchant + 4% Spell penetration and 18% Spell resistance makes it terrible for PvP.

    Julianos is def better for Sorcs.
    Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
    Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
    Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
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    Ezareth PvP on Youtube
  • ChefZero
    ChefZero
    ✭✭✭✭
    Ezareth wrote: »
    No Nirnhoned on the Maelstrom weapon makes it useless to me. adding 60 Bonus spell power for the loss of disease enchant + 4% Spell penetration and 18% Spell resistance makes it terrible for PvP.

    Julianos is def better for Sorcs.

    Why only +60 SD? Not +189 SD?
    PC EU - DC only
  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    ChefZero wrote: »
    Ezareth wrote: »
    No Nirnhoned on the Maelstrom weapon makes it useless to me. adding 60 Bonus spell power for the loss of disease enchant + 4% Spell penetration and 18% Spell resistance makes it terrible for PvP.

    Julianos is def better for Sorcs.

    Why only +60 SD? Not +189 SD?

    Because there are many combinations of set bonuses and it's easy enough to make a weapon for your crafted set instead of an armor piece and use that armor piece to give you an extra spell damage bonus (of 129 at Legendary).
    Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
    Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
    Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
    Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
    Ezareth PvP on Youtube
  • zornyan
    zornyan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    So what do you think would he better

    5x krag
    1x kena
    3x torugs
    3x willpower spell damage enchants .

    Or

    5x julianos
    1 kena
    3 torugs
    3x willpower.

    Or even

    5x krag
    4x seducer
    3 willpower
    Edited by zornyan on October 29, 2015 7:28PM
  • ChefZero
    ChefZero
    ✭✭✭✭
    Ezareth wrote: »

    Because there are many combinations of set bonuses and it's easy enough to make a weapon for your crafted set instead of an armor piece and use that armor piece to give you an extra spell damage bonus (of 129 at Legendary).

    Ok you mean 5x Kagrenacs, 3x Willpower, 2x Torugs and Maelstromdestro compared to 5x Kagrenacs, 3x Willpower, 1x Molag Kena and 2 Torugs for example? So the trade is 189 SD sharpned with 129 SD nirnhoned. But where are the many combinations? You would need a piece Molag Kena, not easy to get for everyone.
    PC EU - DC only
  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    ChefZero wrote: »
    Ezareth wrote: »

    Because there are many combinations of set bonuses and it's easy enough to make a weapon for your crafted set instead of an armor piece and use that armor piece to give you an extra spell damage bonus (of 129 at Legendary).

    Ok you mean 5x Kagrenacs, 3x Willpower, 2x Torugs and Maelstromdestro compared to 5x Kagrenacs, 3x Willpower, 1x Molag Kena and 2 Torugs for example? So the trade is 189 SD sharpned with 129 SD nirnhoned. But where are the many combinations? You would need a piece Molag Kena, not easy to get for everyone.

    @ChefZero

    We're talking about Maelstrom Weapons here so in that light Molag Kena is a hell of a lot easier to get.

    5 Julianos (Kagrenac isn't going to be as good for Destro staff users) 3 pc willpower, 3 pc Elemental Succession is one option, or 3pc Overwhelming Surge.
    Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
    Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
    Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
    Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
    Ezareth PvP on Youtube
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I´d go with 3p spellpower cure. One can never have enough magica.
    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Ezareth
    Ezareth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    I´d go with 3p spellpower cure. One can never have enough magica.

    Either or. Too much magicka has it's weaknesses....I prefer being able to 2-shot those pesky nightblades spamming shield breaker on me.
    Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
    Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
    Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
    Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
    Ezareth PvP on Youtube
  • Derra
    Derra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ezareth wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    I´d go with 3p spellpower cure. One can never have enough magica.

    Either or. Too much magicka has it's weaknesses....I prefer being able to 2-shot those pesky nightblades spamming shield breaker on me.

    You won´t twoshot the good ones and thief mundus does wonders in that regard against not so good players. Suprise back to back overlol 13k crit <3
    Every comment is from a pvp pov unless stated otherwise.

    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

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