As a magicka sorc how to counter a NB

a1x23

I hear all the time that Nightblades are OP. I don't think they are OP but if you don't know how to counter them they can seem that way. Nightblades are a tricky class to play against because of their DPS and effectiveness of avoiding damage. (I mean they hit like a truck and go invisible haha) With that said, i still think Magicka Sorc has all the tools to counter what they have to offer. For example, streak is arguably the best offensive way to pull a NB out of cloak. On defense Daedric Mines hit hard and snare while giving you a chance to regain resources and apply buffs. If streak is timed right and mines are used effectively cloak should never be an issue. To compensate for the high dps, Sorcs have a great mix of shields (hardened ward, healing ward, harness magicka), resistance buffs (boundless storm) and heals (healing ward, combat prayer). All the while of being the most mobile class in the game. You can really control the pace of the fight. On offense the sorcerer class hard hitting abilities in Crystal Fragments, Velocious Curse and a great finisher with Endless fury. If you are using streak correctly and keeping them out of cloak the DPS you pump out should be more than enough. To combat sheild breaker users take advantage of more heals and resistance. As long as your only defense isn't shields the rest of the sheild breaker isnt a worry. Getting marked doesn't matter cause shields dont have resistance. I have used both classes and picked up tricks from being on both sides of the fight. Last tip I have is super important. Keep your cool. I used to find myself kind if freeze up or try to run when I encountered Nightblades because I didn't know how to counter them. Then that played me right into their hands. Nightblades don't wanna go head to head. Stay aggressive on them. If you use these tips and figure out your own strategy you should have success.


My build:

Abilities:
DW: 1.) Endless fury 2.) Crystal Fragments 3.) Streak 4.) Velocious Curse 5.) Trapping Webs/Inevitable Det. U.) Flawless Dawnbreak/Soul Assault/Energy Overload
Resto: 1.) Boundless Storm/Harness Magicka 2.)Combat Prayer/Healing Ward 3.) Hardened Ward 4.) Daedric Minefield 5.) Power Surge U.) Ice Comet/Greater Atro
Overload bar.) 1. E. Fury 2.) C. Frags 3.) Hardened Ward 4.) Restraining Prison 5.) Power Surge
(Only applicable if using Energy Overload)

Gear: V6.
4x Magnus 3x Willpower 3x Cyrodiil's Light 2x Torug's Pact


I should be posting a video within the week where i go into more detail.
I'm also testing other classes/builds and post my findings against Nightblades.
If anyone has questions feel free to ask.

Shoutout to the players that inspired my build @Sypherpk @KingRichard15 @Hexys

MisterBigglesworth

Magicka Sorc is basically the Batman of this game. It has a full utility belt stuffed with tools to counter every other class and gimmick in this game simultaneously.

Hexys

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222805/hexys-magicka-sorcerer-pvp-build-for-2-1-duels-and-small-scale-pvp/p1

Take a look at my build.

Strider_Roshin

There's a strategy against every type of player. As a Nightblade, I find my own class to be pathetically easy to kill, but that's because I use piercing mark. Against sorcs, I use shield breaker. Fights against Dragonknights and Templars is all about resource management. To be honest though DKs are the toughest class for me to kill due to their snares and roots, but if you keep fearing them, they'll eventually run out of stamina. Just be mindful of your own resources.

People cry about Nightblades because they don't want to put a single move on their bar to counter them. You know what? Tough. I put a move on my loadout to counter them, and I use a whole item set to counter sorcs. If shuffle didn't offer such a crappy immunity time I'd have a counter against DKs as well.

In short, stop complaining and adapt in order to combat your opponents.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Don't give tips to them, magicka sorcs are allready the build where I have the most problems on my stamblade.

But seriously, nice post, but you shouldn't use soul assault or meteor against a nb, they are just wasted unless I'm stunned and out of stamina (or can't swap weapons) when you use them.

a1x23

@Hexys I stole the trapping webs from your build haha. I saw your post, tried it, loved it. Its perfect cause with running DW I missed crushing shock. Trapping webs is a great replacement.

a1x23

@lolo_01b16_ESO Totally right. My build isn't just a Nightblade killer lol

Hexys

Mines, Streak, Detection pots, keep the curse on will all work against nightblades.

k2blader

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Magicka Sorc is basically the Batman of this game. It has a full utility belt stuffed with tools to counter every other class and gimmick in this game simultaneously.

You act as if you never ever kill any sorcs existing.

If that is the case, you really just need to learn to play against sorcs in general. They've been nerfed on various fronts this update so it should be easier.

@ OP, looking forward to your vid. :-)

pronkg

I have a sorc as well as a NB, I must say playing night blade feels like setting the game to easy mode at the moment.

But yeah what op says is the way to counter them.

Derra

If you´re dying against a sorc on a NB you´re doing it wrong.

There is no way a sorc can stay offensive long enough with streak and detect potions to break you (for magica NB that is). With streak having no cost increase i would not argue. Streak however is the only "reliable" way to keep a NB decloaked and you can do that ~5 times max without overextending yourself. A good NB will just time his cloak to curse and you´ll never reapply it.
Why most NBs die against sorcs is bc they don´t know the class.

Also if you´re being offensive you give up on mines as they´re a defensive tool requiring you to be somewhat stationary.

a1x23

@Derra I have no problems against NBs. As long as you dont streak 5 times in a row, you can consistently pull them out of cloak and still have more than enough magicka to apply sheilds, buffs and go on offense. I use mines mostly to regain resources because most Nightblades hesitate when they see mines.. Its all about timing brust and managing resources. I think Sorc vs NB in a duel is the most fun fight. Both classes counter each other really well and it comes down to skill of the player.

Derra

a1x23 wrote: »

@Derra I have no problems against NBs. As long as you dont streak 5 times in a row, you can consistently pull them out of cloak and still have more than enough magicka to apply sheilds, buffs and go on offense. I use mines mostly to regain resources because most Nightblades hesitate when they see mines.. Its all about timing brust and managing resources. I think Sorc vs NB in a duel is the most fun fight. Both classes counter each other really well and it comes down to skill of the player.

Well thats the problem though. You might be able do consistently pull them out of cloak every 4 seconds if you´re not overextending. You won´t ever be able to land a killing blow without overcommitting resources - it´s not possible if the NB knows what he/she is doing (because you´re not fast enough to keep up with a NB).

a1x23

@Derra if you are cloaking enough for a sorc to run out of magicka its highly unlikely you are pumping out enough dps to land a killing blow either. At least against a good player. The way you make it sound is that Nightblades win against a sorc 100% of the time. Which is not the case at all. Nightblades are the most squishy out of all the classes without shields and low mitigation, if they get caught slipping they are dome. Get CC'd and a Curse>Fury>Webs>Frags combo and its GG. On the other hand it could just as easily happen to a Sorc. Its all about timing and countering.

Derra

a1x23 wrote: »

@Derra if you are cloaking enough for a sorc to run out of magicka its highly unlikely you are pumping out enough dps to land a killing blow either. At least against a good player. The way you make it sound is that Nightblades win against a sorc 100% of the time. Which is not the case at all. Nightblades are the most squishy out of all the classes without shields and low mitigation, if they get caught slipping they are dome. Get CC'd and a Curse>Fury>Webs>Frags combo and its GG. On the other hand it could just as easily happen to a Sorc. Its all about timing and countering.

No of course they´re not winning 100% of the time.

However as soon as you encounter an opponent who needs heavy attacks to sustain their build you´ve won the fight.

The only thing i´m saying is a good nightblade won´t loose a fight to a sorc. If the sorc is equally skilled it´s a draw most likely (like most duels).

DannyLV702

You definitely need Defemsive Rune on your restro bar. A NB wants to attack while in cloak and that'll stop him. It won't win you the fight, but it's a BIG help, considering when a NB attacks you from stealth he's likely to use fear right after

a1x23

I will say this, it diesn't take a good NB to kill a Sorc but it takes a decent Sorc to kill a NB. You just have to understand how each class works

kadar

These hypothetical situations never really accomplish or prove anyone's point though. One person argues optimistically about one hypothetical player, and the other argues pessimistically about the same player (I've been in quite a few of these).

When Sorc stays with Mines, I either must run away, or try to dance around dem mines. Often, I die. Not too good at dancing.
When Sorc leaves Mines, he hands me an advantage.
^(1v1 situation of course)

Thanks to OP for posting a useful thread (especially for those newer to the game) about how to counter dem NBs. NBs know how to counter NBs, of course, but the rest of the folks are...left in the dark.

Lava_Croft

a1x23 wrote: »

I will say this, it diesn't take a good NB to kill a Sorc but it takes a decent Sorc to kill a NB. You just have to understand how each class works

Statements like this completely ignore the two different schools we have in ESO.

Magicka Sorcerers are some of the toughest opponents for a Magicka Nightblade, while Stamina Nightblades usually don't have that much trouble with it (or anything else). Any Magicka Sorcerer having trouble with Magicka Nightblades is a crappy Magicka Sorcerer. Any Stamina Nightblade having trouble with Magicka Sorcerers is a crappy Stamina Nightblade.

Force-Siphon

I find that unless a nb is optimized to pump out max damage a Sorc can handle it 1v1...I think where people struggle against NBs right now are builds that optimize damage and are hitting the 9k or more surprise attacks. They are still beatable as a Sorc but it forces you to turtle more and rely on quick burst. Sorc has more utility than any other class but like all classes is susceptible to a quick death if not on your A game against max damage.

Derra

Lava_Croft wrote: »

a1x23 wrote: »

I will say this, it diesn't take a good NB to kill a Sorc but it takes a decent Sorc to kill a NB. You just have to understand how each class works

Statements like this completely ignore the two different schools we have in ESO.

Magicka Sorcerers are some of the toughest opponents for a Magicka Nightblade, while Stamina Nightblades usually don't have that much trouble with it (or anything else). Any Magicka Sorcerer having trouble with Magicka Nightblades is a crappy Magicka Sorcerer. Any Stamina Nightblade having trouble with Magicka Sorcerers is a crappy Stamina Nightblade.

Huh? I have not met a sorcerer giving me trouble on my magica NB. The worst thing to happen is you can´t end the fight and neither can they. The decision on when the fight ends is entirely on the NB.

Though i agree on a sorc (if you use harness magica) magica NB can´t do much to give you trouble either. Harnes magica just makes any magica opponent an annoyance at best.

Ashamray

a1x23 wrote: »

@Hexys I stole the trapping webs from your build haha. I saw your post, tried it, loved it. Its perfect cause with running DW I missed crushing shock. Trapping webs is a great replacement.

Ehmm... How can Webs replace Shock? Just interesting.

terrasight

Love this thread (as a NB)... thats how it should be... use your brain to deal with your opponent, not your "Nerf-Button".

Thanks about it

Hope other ppl will get this way...

a1x23

@Ashamray it does similar damage as crushing shock. Its low cost makes it spamable to proc frags. I llike having the snare instead of the interrupt.

Derra

a1x23 wrote: »

@Ashamray it does similar damage as crushing shock. Its low cost makes it spamable to proc frags. I llike having the snare instead of the interrupt.

Well it costs 33% more than shock and deals roughtly 5% less dmg. The advantage is it does it´s dmg in one hit and therefor synergizes MUCH better with surge than CS does.

a1x23

@Derra exactly! Also it has a pretty powerful synergy for group play

Ashamray

Derra wrote: »

a1x23 wrote: »

@Ashamray it does similar damage as crushing shock. Its low cost makes it spamable to proc frags. I llike having the snare instead of the interrupt.

Well it costs 33% more than shock and deals roughtly 5% less dmg. The advantage is it does it´s dmg in one hit and therefor synergizes MUCH better with surge than CS does.

Thank you, it's an interesting note.

Cody

I find I have a hard time against sorcs that manage damage shield use and DPS well

Angarato

as a stamblade thats not using shield breaker with 119 cp (i should probably farm a set) i find magicka sorcerers really hard to deal with. good ones anyway. its hard to stay on them long enough when they use their mines and streaks right. to get through all those shields. specially if theyre really fast with the break outs from fear. the only way i can kill them is if they *** up and i catch them in a fear with their shields down when their health is low. trying this burst really overextends my stamina so if i dont kill them im ussually in trouble from the burst that follows.

do i just not do enough damage yet? not enough cp?

Reeko

a1x23 wrote: »

@Derra if you are cloaking enough for a sorc to run out of magicka its highly unlikely you are pumping out enough dps to land a killing blow either. At least against a good player. The way you make it sound is that Nightblades win against a sorc 100% of the time. Which is not the case at all. Nightblades are the most squishy out of all the classes without shields and low mitigation, if they get caught slipping they are dome. Get CC'd and a Curse>Fury>Webs>Frags combo and its GG. On the other hand it could just as easily happen to a Sorc. Its all about timing and countering.

This 100%

WreckfulAbandon

Lava_Croft wrote: »

a1x23 wrote: »

I will say this, it diesn't take a good NB to kill a Sorc but it takes a decent Sorc to kill a NB. You just have to understand how each class works

Statements like this completely ignore the two different schools we have in ESO.

Magicka Sorcerers are some of the toughest opponents for a Magicka Nightblade, while Stamina Nightblades usually don't have that much trouble with it (or anything else). Any Magicka Sorcerer having trouble with Magicka Nightblades is a crappy Magicka Sorcerer. Any Stamina Nightblade having trouble with Magicka Sorcerers is a crappy Stamina Nightblade.

^Nailed it

It's ok, I have a disingenuous sorc (you've probably seen some of his vids) for a brother, so I know how it goes with you sorcs: "Oh noes NB's so OP, such damage, a poor little sorc like me has no chance." *checks to see if ZOS is looking* "I'm not calling for NB nerfs though, but my poor sorc just can't do anything against NB's oh noes."

They claim to have problems vs magblades

I swear it's like watching Italy or Mexico play in the World Cup, Screen Actor's Guild level acting here.