surprise attack: this is why pvp is overrun by faceroll stamblades (multiple images)

Master_Kas

Wollust wrote: »

Oh I thought the next skill to be nerfcryed for would be BoL. Guess I was wrong

You was wrong this person making the thread has made multiple threads/posts about surprise attack.

Dodge nerf, cloak nerf, surprise attack nerf, fear nerf.

Nbs will go down the route of the dks Im sure.

Op: Nerf ahead, I'll just start spamming 10k wrecking blows instead .

Master_Kas

xylena wrote: »

if you're directly comparing the dps of a cheap spammable instant to channels like jabs, or cast time moves like uppercut... well that about says it all, no? the meta is all about spammable dps right now and the only thing that consistently comes even close to surprise attack is wrecking blow and its 1-second windup... few players can connect on uppercuts consistently enough to out-dps an SA spammer

also this, queue the forum lawyers trying to point out possible technicalities, but anyone with more brains than a potatoe should be wondering why this is even possible in the first place...

Well put some posts up of people who hit harder with concealed weapon too. Those Numbers are in regen drinks/sustain built range lol.

Angarato

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

The number of NB this patch is insane. The last few nights I've had multiple groups of NB attacking me. I'm talking two or three on me spamming Ambush over and over together til they either kill me or the rest of their group catches up. Meanwhile, you can't move or cast anything.

The class definitely needs to be looked at and brought in line with the others. Last patch sorcs had the best offense and defense and without a doubt that is now what NB have.

rofl 3 of them on you spamming ambush and its still "either kill me or" if 3 sorcs jump me on my nb im deader than dead in 3 seconds. good luck cloaking away from 3 streak spamming derpmonkeys

i dont see those nb groups you speak off. i do see groups of 4-5 sorcs and nothing else roaming the IC streets constantly. templars and dks are hard to find. just sorcs everywhere

Derra

Master_Kas wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

if you're directly comparing the dps of a cheap spammable instant to channels like jabs, or cast time moves like uppercut... well that about says it all, no? the meta is all about spammable dps right now and the only thing that consistently comes even close to surprise attack is wrecking blow and its 1-second windup... few players can connect on uppercuts consistently enough to out-dps an SA spammer

also this, queue the forum lawyers trying to point out possible technicalities, but anyone with more brains than a potatoe should be wondering why this is even possible in the first place...

Well put some posts up of people who hit harder with concealed weapon too. Those Numbers are in regen drinks/sustain built range lol.

My drink sustain magica NB hits for 7k concealed and i don´t even use DW/2h

xylena

if i ever run across someone who hits me hard with concealed wep, i'll post it, but they barely exist... i play a lot and can't even remember the last time i was killed by a magblade (thanks hardy CP and easily accessible spell resistance buffs)

Docmandu

juan0316 wrote: »

You re complaining for 4 to 5.9k surprise attacks? . Ive gotte hit 5ks by jabs, 10k by wrecking truck, 5k by concealed..How about you start putting some CPs into resistant?

Surprise attack = insta
Jabs = channeled spell, with 4 individual hits, while slowing the templar movement speed
Wrecking Blow = 1 second cast time
Concealed = well we already established that NBs are too good to be true, you confirmed it once more

Alucardo

Sometimes it feels like these forums are just used by people to vent their anger after losing a fight #SayNoToNerfs

Gunphu

Ive been hit by 12k jabs and WBs. Highest SA ive seen is 7k. If you add in animation canceling then WB will out burst DPS a SA light attack burst in the same time.

I also want to point out that ransack hits nearly as hard, debuffs, costs less stamina, and can burst DPS just aswell with animation canceled bash and light attacks.

xylena

outside of a few duels with sribes i've never been killed by ransack, nor have i ever seen it doing much above 4k dmg

this isn't about winning/losing, this is me getting tired of fighting players that are duller than trash mobs (yet still do tons of damage just pressing 1 button)

CtrlAltDlt

Alucardo wrote: »

Sometimes it feels like these forums are just used by people to vent their anger after losing a fight #SayNoToNerfs

It's ridiculous man, they will ruin this game (pvp).

Gunphu

xylena wrote: »

outside of a few duels with sribes i've never been killed by ransack, nor have i ever seen it doing much above 4k dmg

this isn't about winning/losing, this is me getting tired of fighting players that are duller than trash mobs (yet still do tons of damage just pressing 1 button)

Yah SA does hit harder i was just throwing it out that with the increased damage to bash (1H&S) and a light attack ransack is on equal footing. It obviously would require a little more skill though. I completely understand where you are coming from.

Wollust

Master_Kas wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Oh I thought the next skill to be nerfcryed for would be BoL. Guess I was wrong

You was wrong this person making the thread has made multiple threads/posts about surprise attack.

Dodge nerf, cloak nerf, surprise attack nerf, fear nerf.

Nbs will go down the route of the dks Im sure.

Op: Nerf ahead, I'll just start spamming 10k wrecking blows instead .

No worries, when the time arrives, I will gladly welcome you into the club of the *** up classes, where my DK and your NB can chill out together and be dead or so.

No seriously, this threads are getting ridiculous and completely out of of control. 2 weeks ago we had cloak, now Surprise Attack. Where will we be in 2 more weeks? BoL? Vampirism? Werewolf (This little hairy things hit harder than anything else, why don't you go and cry me a river you people)?

Are you guys planning on doing a full cycle, scraping every single class in the process? Well, not that I care too much at this point I guess, my magicka DK already got this super successful, intelligent way of balancing.

JDar

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

JDar wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

The number of NB this patch is insane. The last few nights I've had multiple groups of NB attacking me. I'm talking two or three on me spamming Ambush over and over together til they either kill me or the rest of their group catches up. Meanwhile, you can't move or cast anything.

The class definitely needs to be looked at and brought in line with the others. Last patch sorcs had the best offense and defense and without a doubt that is now what NB have.

You mean it takes more than one nightblade to take you down? Which class do you think is OP again?

Well, you have to account for bad players and builds. There are plenty that can take me down alone if they catch me off guard, but some of you need a partner.

LOL

Alucardo

xylena wrote: »

this isn't about winning/losing, this is me getting tired of fighting players that are duller than trash mobs (yet still do tons of damage just pressing 1 button)

Actually to get my surprise attack hit that high I have to use Soul Harvest to increase my weapon damage against the target and get an extra bonus from cloak. That's 3 buttons right there.
Spamming nothing but surprise attack isn't going to keep the Nightblade alive for very long, unless of course his opponent has the PvP skills of Eric Wrobel.

Telel

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Does everyone realize that literally every nb who plays this game uses popular twitch streamer builds. For instance, syhper has a 100% weapon damage built that he made and has been tailored for his playstyle. However every single nightblade you see these days regardless of there individual skill, uses this build.

Please do not make up things about Telel. They already have enough issues with people thinking that they are both competent and dangerous enough to focus on in a fight.

xylena

if lowering the damage on surprise attack would make NB unplayable for you, then you don't really know how to NB... stacking nothing but weapon damage and spamming 1 move in pvp should be getting you laughed at, not be the optimal tactic used by streamers and spuds alike

i make these threads because i don't want to see cloak nerfed or any NB go the way of current magicka DKs... stam heals should behave the same as magicka heals w/r/t invisibility... killers blade, power extraction, and incapacitating strike should be BUFFED for stamblades by converting them to physical damage, which would more than make up for say, a 15% damage reduction on surprise attack (for stamblades skilled enough to use combos and rotations as opposed to mashing 1 button then running away)

Tankqull

why nerf an attack that is perfectly inline with all the other direct dmg abilities of other classes.

what is so overpowered about a 6.5k attack (after a debuff applied by itself) compared to a 5.5k(+2,5kheal) jab, a 11k WB, a 5,8k whip+heal...
i´m in the lucky position of having all 4 classes and played all of them in pvp. with comparable stats (excluding bugs like no 140% dmg increasement on jab against shields) the potential of all classes direct dmg abilities are on a comparable lvl.
the issue actually is the easiness to achiev those stats and here is stamina>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>magica. and NB´s because of ther class inherent and bossmer racial sustain support can concentrate far more on dmg than any other class wich prior to the superfluid vigor implementation was balanced by horrible healing potential.

so to come to a conclusion
you are compleatly wrong not SA is the problem, vigor, eqiuipment choices and class/racial passives are to be blamed.

xylena

vigor, eqiuipment choices and class/racial passives are to be blamed

@Tankqull i can agree on this part, but you can't compare the sustained dps of a cheap easy instant to channel or cast time moves... i've got four v16s (two DKs, NB, Temp) and nothing even comes close to SA in terms of reliable sustained pvp dps (as much for the reasons you mentioned as SA doing 10-15% too much damage)

Mauz

xylena wrote: »

Your screen says nothing. All other abilities did obviously not crit, its 4 different toons, you dont know their builds, their gear quality. If they focus on sustain and the letal attacker did crit and had buffed his ability by death stroke, dw buff against low targets, reapers mark etc. all other abilities can still be total overpowered compared too.

Btw I got hit some days ago by a DK with snipe->snipe+heavy attack for together 35k dmg in 1 sek -> dead. Everything on my death screen was over 10k.

I think Tankqull is right. Think a bit around the corner.

Junglejim82

I've been around the block more than a few times with online gaming , I've seen the destiny boards and the incessant whining and general toxicity , I'm a survivor of dcuos great gadgets vs mental war in the summer of 2012 then dcuos ani- cancelling pros vs casual I can't do it crew skirmish of spring 14' . Was immersed in cod 4 and mw2s camper noobtubers vs SMG rushers way back when but honestly these forums top the lot. I've never seen so many Nerf cries in such a short period of time with any game. This game is doomed unfortunately

Jbugz97

xylena wrote: »

no other spammable instant consistently does this much damage, nor does any ability rotation outside minmaxed magicka sorcs... spamming your top dps ability should run you out of stamina quickly and be very easy to counter... but instead you can spam SA (or WB) pretty much endlessly, while trying to play defensively with blocking and/or rolling drains quickly becomes prohibitively expensive, meaning the best counter tactic is to just return more SA or WB spam at a higher net dps... both SA and WB have secondary effects that buff themselves, further rewarding players for spamming them

stamblades or not the only ones that can use WB

xylena

i'm making these threads because i DON'T want cloak nerfed... the only problems with NB are the ridiculous faceroll dps of SA spam and stamblades healing to full health with momentum/vigor while invisible

JDar

xylena wrote: »

i'm making these threads because i DON'T want cloak nerfed... the only problems with NB are the ridiculous faceroll dps of SA spam and stamblades healing to full health with momentum/vigor while invisible

Most of the wiser among us seem to be coming to that conclusion as well.

SA shouldn't do as much damage as it's doing when it gives Major Fracture AND a 4 second stun from stealth. If Concealed Weapon was reaching the kind of numbers SA regularly does (it also has a 4 second stun when used from stealth or invis) everyone would be rightly saying it is OP.

edited for readability

Master_Kas

xylena wrote: »

i'm making these threads because i DON'T want cloak nerfed... the only problems with NB are the ridiculous faceroll dps of SA spam and stamblades healing to full health with momentum/vigor while invisible

Vigor/rally working while invisible is intended, some ZOS mod wrote it in a thread about it ^^

Alucardo

Mauz wrote: »

Btw I got hit some days ago by a DK with snipe->snipe+heavy attack for together 35k dmg in 1 sek -> dead. Everything on my death screen was over 10k.

Sounds like you ran into Alcast's DK xD

Oh, for lols some of you might want to see this. I was searching Google for his Bullseye build when this happened



Tears were produced.

Uberkull

Ganj wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Well to be honest this looks pretty normal to me. He might add some light attacks too but still it doesnt look any odd. There are people only spamming steel tornados, crystal fragments or wrecking blows like crazy. At least this dude used 3 different abilities and you couldnt dodge or block none of them clearly.

This. This. This. How about you learn to block, DR, shield, or counter? If a NB doesn't get the jump, they are done. Any decent pvper can counter a melee NB. Check your build.

Joy_Division

Junglejim82 wrote: »

I've been around the block more than a few times with online gaming , I've seen the destiny boards and the incessant whining and general toxicity , I'm a survivor of dcuos great gadgets vs mental war in the summer of 2012 then dcuos ani- cancelling pros vs casual I can't do it crew skirmish of spring 14' . Was immersed in cod 4 and mw2s camper noobtubers vs SMG rushers way back when but honestly these forums top the lot. I've never seen so many Nerf cries in such a short period of time with any game. This game is doomed unfortunately

It's one thing to whine, it's another to recognize the amount of complaints as a sign the game is in a terrible state of balance.

I am generally only ever killed by the same 5 or 6 abilities. These are either over-performing or many of the abilities in the game are under-performing. It is not fair to maintain the status quo and simply expect the people who happen to be stuck with the under-performing abilities to just accept it because you are tired of reading about nerfs.

CP5

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I am a stamina nightblade and there are two reasons why people would assume surprise attack hits so hard.

Does everyone realize that literally every nb who plays this game uses popular twitch streamer builds. For instance, syhper has a 100% weapon damage built that he made and has been tailored for his playstyle. However every single nightblade you see these days regardless of there individual skill, uses this build. Its funny to see all the DW/2H nightblades out there. Snipe is almost none existent because of this lol. So many fan boys its comical. You can run caltrops and that one knock back skill on bows and kite these kids so easy. They eventually run out of stamina because of there ambush spam.

So i blame streamers for most threads regarding nerfs. Build diversity gets worse and worse for every new build video that gets introduced.

How many sets are used these days? It doesn't help Zos introduced these generic Imperial Sets and Jewelry sets. Good job limiting our choices.

I personally stay far away from streamers builds. You could create a counter for these builds and kill so much of the player base its astounding.

So i agree, when you build for 100% weapon damage and hit people with surprise attack it will hurt.

Build against it. Its not that hard

I do what I can to avoid fotm skills and just stick to 'builds' that I enjoy. But you bring up a very good point, large number of players use the same build and everyone gets tired of it, but if the build has a high skill demand and those using it aren't quite able to use it, then we get the "our class is underpowered" comments as well.

Alucardo

Junglejim82 wrote: »

I've been around the block more than a few times with online gaming , I've seen the destiny boards and the incessant whining and general toxicity , I'm a survivor of dcuos great gadgets vs mental war in the summer of 2012 then dcuos ani- cancelling pros vs casual I can't do it crew skirmish of spring 14' . Was immersed in cod 4 and mw2s camper noobtubers vs SMG rushers way back when but honestly these forums top the lot. I've never seen so many Nerf cries in such a short period of time with any game. This game is doomed unfortunately

This, my friend, is the sad truth. I've also mentioned it in several other threads - people need to stop crying nerf just because they got rekt. We're stuck in an infinite cycle of nerfs, retracts, over excessive buffs, lazy implemented sets, sad classes (DK) because of you (not you Junglejim).
Basically 3 things kill me every time: 14k radiant destructions, 50 frags to the face, and insta-kill disintegration. I have not made a post about any of these things, because I can kill a templar or sorc no problems. Just because I see their skills in my death recap with high numbers doesn't mean the spell is OP, not at all.
Generally when people spam a skill it's because they outnumber you and they can get away with it. Nerf zergs instead, nerf being outnumbered, not the bloody abilities they are using ffs. Stop breaking our game.

glavius

20% dual wield dmg boost at low hp doesn't work for surprise attack or any other nb skill.....

Angarato wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

if you're directly comparing the dps of a cheap spammable instant to channels like jabs, or cast time moves like uppercut... well that about says it all, no? the meta is all about spammable dps right now and the only thing that consistently comes even close to surprise attack is wrecking blow and its 1-second windup... few players can connect on uppercuts consistently enough to out-dps an SA spammer

also this, queue the forum lawyers trying to point out possible technicalities, but anyone with more brains than a potatoe should be wondering why this is even possible in the first place...

he used soul harvest increasing your damage taken by 20% also if we dual wield we get a 20% damage boost when you're below 25% health (which you obviously were if 6k damage killed you) you also might have blocked the others. only 3.2k damage on an ice comet is very very low. 6k damage with 40% damage boost really isnt that bad bruh

20% dual wield dmg boost at low hp doesn't work for surprise attack or any other nb skill.....