Desperately need structured PVP

mklundub17_ESO

So many of the current PVP issues could be solved by just introducing structured PVP. Running around all night trying to find a non-zerg campaign, I might find a handful of decent fights on any given night. That's not going to hold many players interest in the long term if PVP is one of their main reasons for playing.

12v12 or 24v24 Attack/Defend a keep? That sounds like amazing fun.
8v8+ CTF CTS - capture the scroll or even a 3 way, 8v8v8.

So many different formats that could be a lot of fun, and at the same time let the PVP players do what they love and not spend their time trying to overcome the shortcomings of cyrodiil/IC. Just take portions of cyrodiil (the gates, bridges, certain towns) and turn them into instanced maps for structured pvp. The rest is no new development required other than setting up separate leaderboard and reward tiers.

Waffennacht

Man, people have wanted something, anything, similar since the beginning. At least when I joined the forums those threads were going.

I think its somewhere with the, "horse racing is coming and housing is coming" comments from ZoS.... a year ago

mklundub17_ESO

Waffennacht wrote: »

Man, people have wanted something, anything, similar since the beginning. At least when I joined the forums those threads were going.

I think its somewhere with the, "horse racing is coming and housing is coming" comments from ZoS.... a year ago

Yea I figured, but it would be such a huge feature for the game that wouldn't require much dev work.

Just imagining a scenario where it's something like 12v12v12 - each alliance has a keep, lose your home keep you're out, first alliance to cap all 3 wins.

Jitterbug

/signed

Docmandu

No.. just no... go play GW2, WoW, RIFT, whatever if you want that.

Cyro is big enough to get a bunch of friends together and fight it out somewhere if you really want set up fights.

Derra

I would not have agreed a year or even half a year ago.

I agree now. Cyro is nothing fun anymore. It´s zergs at keeps or a barren wasteland. I love the fight mechanics in eso. I just don´t enjoy zerging (which is all that´s left for cyrodiil during primetime).

Defilted

One of the worst PVP types I ever played was the WOW PVP (this seems to be what you are asking for). Their small scale capture this or that was terrible IMO. The large scale DAOC type was so much more fun for me.

DAOC also did low level PVP on a smaller scale with one keep in the middle which was enjoyable as well.

Rayste

More small man cyro objectives would work also. Force the zerg to spread out to control the HUGE map that is cyro.

@ZOS_RichLambert

ChefZero

Vote for structured pvp, cause you have to waist a lot of time to find good pvp. Without zerging, ganking players or ganked by players. Not everyone have that much time...

mklundub17_ESO

Docmandu wrote: »

No.. just no... go play GW2, WoW, RIFT, whatever if you want that.

Cyro is big enough to get a bunch of friends together and fight it out somewhere if you really want set up fights.

It's not though that's the problem. Can spend 6 hours in cyrodiil and either rolling over small groups or trying to bust a zerg up, which with current mechanics like capped aoe damage is a joke if the zerg is large enough. They've already splintered the pvp community up so badly with IC that cyrodiil has just become a sad joke of people trading emp for the title/achievement.

6 hours of gameplay to have MAYBE 1 or 2 good fights is not conducive to enjoyable pvp.

Jade1986

Docmandu wrote: »

No.. just no... go play GW2, WoW, RIFT, whatever if you want that.

Cyro is big enough to get a bunch of friends together and fight it out somewhere if you really want set up fights.

Well if the lag wasn't catastrophic it wouldn't be so much of an issue, but get three groups of 50 fighting it out and the latency goes from 50 ms to 350 - 800 ms, which is just insanity.

Unless ZoS upgrades their hardware to the best of the best, I agree, we need some structured pvp.

Nivzruo_ESO

We keep asking for it, it's prob one of the most requested things next to race & name changes, and zos even showed us a prototype of 3v3v3. Plus if ANY game should have arena it is this one.. sooo much lore behind the idea of arenas it is asinine that it was in the game on release.

ToRelax

I wouldn't call it a fix to let Cyrodiil die, but yeah. If that happens it's because in it's current state it's barely enjoyable anymore. So, better than nothing.

Jade1986

ToRelax wrote: »

I wouldn't call it a fix to let Cyrodiil die, but yeah. If that happens it's because in it's current state it's barely enjoyable anymore. So, better than nothing.

I would not say let it die by any means, but we need more variety. And a fix to the zerg lagfest.

ChefZero

Ye on EU they should delete some campaigns, but on the other side locked campaigns are very laggy atm. Give us some team vs team pvp, no matter which factions. E-sport make games bigger than others.

ToRelax

laced wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I wouldn't call it a fix to let Cyrodiil die, but yeah. If that happens it's because in it's current state it's barely enjoyable anymore. So, better than nothing.

I would not say let it die by any means, but we need more variety. And a fix to the zerg lagfest.

Of course not, and I don't think structured PvP would do this if Cyrodiil wasn't in it's current state.

Docmandu

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

We keep asking for it, it's prob one of the most requested things next to race & name changes, and zos even showed us a prototype of 3v3v3. Plus if ANY game should have arena it is this one.. sooo much lore behind the idea of arenas it is asinine that it was in the game on release.

It's not because 5 people on a forum ask for it that the majority wants this, as in "most requested"... just think of all the people that thought the majority had >500CP on this forum, while in reality, the average was around 90 and only 1% (!) had >500 CP!

Forums give a very very very skewed view of things.

Vocal != majority

mklundub17_ESO

Docmandu wrote: »

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

We keep asking for it, it's prob one of the most requested things next to race & name changes, and zos even showed us a prototype of 3v3v3. Plus if ANY game should have arena it is this one.. sooo much lore behind the idea of arenas it is asinine that it was in the game on release.

It's not because 5 people on a forum ask for it that the majority wants this, as in "most requested"... just think of all the people that thought the majority had >500CP on this forum, while in reality, the average was around 90 and only 1% (!) had >500 CP!

Forums give a very very very skewed view of things.

Vocal != majority

I don't know what to tell you if you actually believe the numbers ZOS released for CP averages without saying how they filtered players to calculate the numbers.

For the original topic, I would feel safe in assuming more players would have a more enjoyable pvp experience in structured pvp than the current state of cyrodiil right now. Even people who didn't enjoy some other mmo experience with structured pvp still couldn't possibly defend the state of PVP in ESO right now.

IC was supposed to be the pvp update and all it really did was destroy cyrodiil populations other than zergs, force pve onto pvpers and vice versa leaving much of the pve population to first use a glitch to farm the arena unharassed and then instead form larger and larger zergs to avoid pvp altogether.

a1x23

We have been asking for a PVP arena, what do they give us? A PVE arena. IMHO without an arena this game will keep losing players. Even tho there is a PVP, i dont feel like this game is very competitive and a game being competitive is the only way to keep it relevant. ESO has a lot of content and is a great game. It would be a shame to lose a portion of the ESO fanbase because of the lack of structured PVP. Please ZOS give us what we are asking.

Waffennacht

It could be structured tournaments set up for every hour or whatever.

You could place yourself in the que (could be a location or a Khajit sign up booth) and when its time, or it fills up the tournament begins.

You could go simple que and load, or elaborate like a Roman esc arena where you walk down the halls to your opponents with roaring crowds.

It would have a low effect on Cyrodiil as the only big scale would be there, along with items, quests, dailies etc... plus if it was timed based it would have an even less effect on the population.

Point is it can be done with little to no backlash if done properly

Baconlad

Arena...as in 1v1 or 2v2? F-that. Too much resources for almost zero gain. I want 10v10v10 ir more, up to 15 tops. And I'm sorry whoever didn't like WoW battleground PvP. I felt ACCOMPLISHED when my group rolled a battleground. In real type massive combat, the other side KNOWS when *** about to go down at their keep. Now its nothing more than stealthing up to a abandoned keep, hoping to flag it before anyone notices...its *** and doesn't make sense. Give us structured pvp, with objectives...wow never had an problem in there battlegrounds with "zerging". Cause there were multiple objectives that force group splitting to win. Hell at the very least redo the *** up that IS imperial city, and give those districts to us In the form of battlegrounds, and the sewers as a large battleground. The way it should have been done in the beginning. Leave cyrodil alone, too many whiners to actually fix the trash mechanics. So just let it die. When the rest of eso finds out that new battlegrounds are SO much more fun, cyrodil will die...and they can redo that! =D see how that works?

Speely

I think the issue here isn't that we need structured, instanced PvP in ESO, but that we need AvA to have objectives that facilitate small group and large group play alike. Currently, there are no mechanics that make a smaller group advantageous to a larger group... that is fine for most situations since larger groups should beat smaller groups in open warfare, all things being relatively equal in regard to builds/skill levels.

Spreading out objectives and making them very time-dependent upon each other would be a start. Another idea I have been tooling around with is making Ultimate gain scale down for every ally within a certain radius. The combination of these two things would split groups up more and grant somewhat of an advantage to smaller groups vs larger in that they could utilize Ults more often and have to defend against them less.

I am of the opinion that ESO is supposed to be a RVR game (sorry.... AvA.) It's a war. War isn't fair, nor is it structured. Now, I get that in gameplay terms this can equal frustration, but the model itself has merit. It's the distribution of objectives and the structure of Cyrodiil itself that encourages zergball play. If the design here was more sophisticated, I think we would see a wider variety of encounters in Cyrodiil. Given that the PvP team's sole responsibility is exactly that, I am a bit perplexed as to how they have not recognized and addressed the mundane nature of AvA in regard to available options for various group sizes.

Farorin

I don't think structure is needed as much as more incentive to actually get into PVP and fight.

AP is useless, so there is no incentive for that. The rewards in Cyrodiil are hard to come by, and are often not even very good anyway due to terrible RNG. Tel Var stones are best obtained through grinding PVE mobs and avoiding players, so no incentive there either (it actually discourages players as it is more efficient and useful to avoid PVP while farming stones than to engage in it).

Blazemaster

I agree with the thread creator we need some smallscale pvp. At the moment alot of the pvp community experience much lag in cyrodil because of all the zergs and aoe spam, I know for me personally I cannot get pvp in cyrodiil with less than 250ms. Please give us arena 1v1,2v2,3v3,4v4,5v5, or even 2v2v2,3v3v3, etc, or a larger Battleground 10+vs10+. If you don't like the idea of arena or battlegrounds pvp it's as simple as not doing it don't que for arena, and battlgrounds just go play in cyrodiil. At the moment cyrodiil is a joke for people who want smaller fights if its not the insane lag and ping then its me getting run over by a zerg of 20 plus, please zenimax give us some small structured pvp that we can que for. Us small scale lovers desperately need it :'(.

Vanzen

We have been asking over and over again. They have said "no", over and over again. Who will win ?
Only thing I ask now is the "REASON" why they dont want to implement this feature. I could die happy if I knew why they dont want to give something not that complicated that would make happy so many of us ...

mklundub17_ESO

Vanzen wrote: »

We have been asking over and over again. They have said "no", over and over again. Who will win ?
Only thing I ask now is the "REASON" why they dont want to implement this feature. I could die happy if I knew why they dont want to give something not that complicated that would make happy so many of us ...

My hope is that they had some sort of idealistic vision of cyrodiil and structured pvp would hinder their vision. But now that their vision has moved forward with IC and they can see they had no clue how their changes would backfire it means they HAVE to develop something and structured pvp would not be a very big undertaking if it was done by just instancing small parts of the existing cyrodiil map and keeps.

Mmos don't have long to make things right, and the console community is far more fickle than the PC. If they think they can keep churning out failed concepts and not addressing the ever growing list of player wants, they'll have a harsh realization when it comes to them following past MMOs that had to switch from ignoring their player base to bending over backward just trying to get previous players to return to their game, let alone attract new players.

Stikato

I would kill for a simple battleground map like Thidranki, etc. Keep on center island, three portal keeps. And there are other great ideas and simple setups too.

Who freaking cares about Cyrodiil anymore anyway? I used to. But the devs obviously don't. The players obviously care less and less about it.

I would love to have fights without:

- Zergs
- Lag
- TV Stone BS

Think about. I mean really think about it. This game will eventually just be P2W garbage. We all know it. It hasn't happened yet, but it is inevitable. At least in the meantime, while it's still good, it would be nice to take advantage of the (mostly) excellent combat system to have some great fights.

Minno

Baconlad wrote: »

Arena...as in 1v1 or 2v2? F-that. Too much resources for almost zero gain. I want 10v10v10 ir more, up to 15 tops. And I'm sorry whoever didn't like WoW battleground PvP. I felt ACCOMPLISHED when my group rolled a battleground. In real type massive combat, the other side KNOWS when *** about to go down at their keep. Now its nothing more than stealthing up to a abandoned keep, hoping to flag it before anyone notices...its *** and doesn't make sense. Give us structured pvp, with objectives...wow never had an problem in there battlegrounds with "zerging". Cause there were multiple objectives that force group splitting to win. Hell at the very least redo the *** up that IS imperial city, and give those districts to us In the form of battlegrounds, and the sewers as a large battleground. The way it should have been done in the beginning. Leave cyrodil alone, too many whiners to actually fix the trash mechanics. So just let it die. When the rest of eso finds out that new battlegrounds are SO much more fun, cyrodil will die...and they can redo that! =D see how that works?

There was a famous video showing a 3 way flag capture back in 2014. Arena style and it looked fun. But ZOS has since claimed that wasn't the intent and goes out of its way to not compliment it.

Either way I think IC can provide the arena style pvp people want. But it requires objectives in upper IC.

tennant94

Structured pvp would be so fun i can't believe it's not already part of the game. I for one am sick to death of the little action i'm getting out of cyrodil atm. When i solo play i can't find enough small scale battles and when i group play zerg v zerg style the battles dont last long, its like whoever has more in the group just steamrolls over leaving little time for fighting and taking in the atmosphere. Don't get me wrong, sometimes i get into extremely enjoyable small scale and large scale fights i just wish they happened more often. Structured pvp would solve this issue for me.

Ganj

Arena.. 1v1/2v2/3v3 just an arena.

k2blader

Farorin wrote: »

I don't think structure is needed as much as more incentive to actually get into PVP and fight.

AP is useless, so there is no incentive for that. The rewards in Cyrodiil are hard to come by, and are often not even very good anyway due to terrible RNG. Tel Var stones are best obtained through grinding PVE mobs and avoiding players, so no incentive there either (it actually discourages players as it is more efficient and useful to avoid PVP while farming stones than to engage in it).

Completely agree.

I have no interest in "structured PvP" where the highest CP cookie cutter class/build combos will be the only "winners."