Ditching the Restro

Unstable.Pixel

Just wanted to get some sorcs thoughts on scrapping the restro for a more offensive healing route. Instead of using blessing or healing ward, subbing in Degeneration and/or Surge to keep heals going but staying 100% offensive (aside from throwing on hardened/harness). Anyone tried this out with success or is the healing simply not enough to give up that healing stick? Was thinking about a change of pace but thought I'd ask if anyone has done it?

k2blader

Lunch.Box wrote: »

Just wanted to get some sorcs thoughts on scrapping the restro for a more offensive healing route. Instead of using blessing or healing ward, subbing in Degeneration and/or Surge to keep heals going but staying 100% offensive (aside from throwing on hardened/harness). Anyone tried this out with success or is the healing simply not enough to give up that healing stick? Was thinking about a change of pace but thought I'd ask if anyone has done it?

Can't answer this myself but would love to see other sorcs' opinions. I still run resto but have been playing around with using Combat Prayer and Rapid Regen instead of Healing Ward. The heals feel quite weak.. but not sure what might be more/most effective defensively, particularly for lower CP builds. From what I've seen most players are decent enough to mitigate what limited burst I can throw at them, so the thought of ditching resto doesn't seem feasible right now. But maybe it's different for higher-tiered sorcs.

FriedEggSandwich

I don't think it's possible to ditch resto staff in pvp, at least not with a single target build anyway. I'm prepared to be wrong though. I run 5 light and 2 heavy so have 22k spell resistance and 17k physical resistance with boundless storm up. I also run power surge and get healed by blood magic from frags and mines. I still need to carry a resto staff though just for healing ward. Half of my damage skills don't even proc surge and blood magic has like a 4 second cool down. I will admit I don't actually know how much dark exchange heals for but I hear it's not good.

It might be more feasible if you ran a high crit aoe build, but you still have damage shields unable to be crit, so surge will never heal you while fighting a damage shield user unless something is changed. I think zos are trying to address this.

Unstable.Pixel

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I don't think it's possible to ditch resto staff in pvp, at least not with a single target build anyway. I'm prepared to be wrong though. I run 5 light and 2 heavy so have 22k spell resistance and 17k physical resistance with boundless storm up. I also run power surge and get healed by blood magic from frags and mines. I still need to carry a resto staff though just for healing ward. Half of my damage skills don't even proc surge and blood magic has like a 4 second cool down. I will admit I don't actually know how much dark exchange heals for but I hear it's not good.

It might be more feasible if you ran a high crit aoe build, but you still have damage shields unable to be crit, so surge will never heal you while fighting a damage shield user unless something is changed. I think zos are trying to address this.

Thought they allowed surge heals to proc on shields? Of course I wouldn't be surprised if it's screwed up. I'd be running a single target build with prox det mixed in so restro may still be my best bet. I tend to play very offensively so hoped heals could come from the damage output. Looks like I'll test it and see how it all pans out, probably not a common path most sorcs use.

I have come across a few destro/sword + board sorcs so perhaps it's just a play style adjustment to break from typical sorc mold.

FriedEggSandwich

Lunch.Box wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I don't think it's possible to ditch resto staff in pvp, at least not with a single target build anyway. I'm prepared to be wrong though. I run 5 light and 2 heavy so have 22k spell resistance and 17k physical resistance with boundless storm up. I also run power surge and get healed by blood magic from frags and mines. I still need to carry a resto staff though just for healing ward. Half of my damage skills don't even proc surge and blood magic has like a 4 second cool down. I will admit I don't actually know how much dark exchange heals for but I hear it's not good.

It might be more feasible if you ran a high crit aoe build, but you still have damage shields unable to be crit, so surge will never heal you while fighting a damage shield user unless something is changed. I think zos are trying to address this.

Thought they allowed surge heals to proc on shields? Of course I wouldn't be surprised if it's screwed up. I'd be running a single target build with prox det mixed in so restro may still be my best bet. I tend to play very offensively so hoped heals could come from the damage output. Looks like I'll test it and see how it all pans out, probably not a common path most sorcs use.

I have come across a few destro/sword + board sorcs so perhaps it's just a play style adjustment to break from typical sorc mold.

On pts but not on live. But shields still aren't crittable on pts, so the surge heal from damage to shields isn't calculated in the same way. People are saying it heals for as little as 180hp regardless of damage done, even if there was no cooldown on this it wouldn't be enough. Really high crit builds (50%+) might be able to rely on surge more as a heal, but until we can get health back from curse and mine crits it seems a bit suicidal to ditch resto staff if you're single-target.

Derra

Lunch.Box wrote: »

Just wanted to get some sorcs thoughts on scrapping the restro for a more offensive healing route. Instead of using blessing or healing ward, subbing in Degeneration and/or Surge to keep heals going but staying 100% offensive (aside from throwing on hardened/harness). Anyone tried this out with success or is the healing simply not enough to give up that healing stick? Was thinking about a change of pace but thought I'd ask if anyone has done it?

It´s possible to do that if you´re fighting normal opponents.

It´s not possible if someone uses shieldbreaker. You need reliable non rgn heal to fight this. If you get healdebuffed you even need purge.

So if you don´t care that you have to run/die when you encounter someone using a set to hardcounter you - do it it´s possible. If you do care don´t waste your thoughts and energy trying to make it work - it won´t.

BigTone

I've for a while I ran without a resto staff. I ran dual wield on my front bar and destro on my back bar. I relied heavily on crit surge heals, my health recovery (using purple drink), and tri-pots. Also never letting my shield down helps too. I have a lot of stam and stam recovery so I am going to try dark exchange for healing as well. Let me know if you have any break throughs. Personally I hate having to run a resto staff and wish there was a more reliable heal out there available to magicka users.

BigTone

Derra wrote: »

Lunch.Box wrote: »

Just wanted to get some sorcs thoughts on scrapping the restro for a more offensive healing route. Instead of using blessing or healing ward, subbing in Degeneration and/or Surge to keep heals going but staying 100% offensive (aside from throwing on hardened/harness). Anyone tried this out with success or is the healing simply not enough to give up that healing stick? Was thinking about a change of pace but thought I'd ask if anyone has done it?

It´s possible to do that if you´re fighting normal opponents.

It´s not possible if someone uses shieldbreaker. You need reliable non rgn heal to fight this. If you get healdebuffed you even need purge.

So if you don´t care that you have to run/die when you encounter someone using a set to hardcounter you - do it it´s possible. If you do care don´t waste your thoughts and energy trying to make it work - it won´t.

If it is just one person I can usually kill them before they kill me even without heals. Especially looking at what @lunch.box is trying to do, which is stay offensive, shield breaker is a problem. The only time shield breaker is a problem for me is in a 1vx situation, and even then I just LoS and focus that person.

Derra

BigTone wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lunch.Box wrote: »

Just wanted to get some sorcs thoughts on scrapping the restro for a more offensive healing route. Instead of using blessing or healing ward, subbing in Degeneration and/or Surge to keep heals going but staying 100% offensive (aside from throwing on hardened/harness). Anyone tried this out with success or is the healing simply not enough to give up that healing stick? Was thinking about a change of pace but thought I'd ask if anyone has done it?

It´s possible to do that if you´re fighting normal opponents.

It´s not possible if someone uses shieldbreaker. You need reliable non rgn heal to fight this. If you get healdebuffed you even need purge.

So if you don´t care that you have to run/die when you encounter someone using a set to hardcounter you - do it it´s possible. If you do care don´t waste your thoughts and energy trying to make it work - it won´t.

If it is just one person I can usually kill them before they kill me even without heals. Especially looking at what @lunch.box is trying to do, which is stay offensive, shield breaker is a problem. The only time shield breaker is a problem for me is in a 1vx situation, and even then I just LoS and focus that person.

That´s only working against enemies you´re outclassing anyway.

A stam DK or NB with shieldbreaker on an EQUAL skilllevel as your own will wreck you if you don´t have a resto staff.

Edit: If you can kill the opponent with shieldbreaker out of multiple opponents you´re way outclassing them anyway.
Smart enemies will stay open field at almost max range with no los for you to hide. Which leaves you with the decision to run or expose yourself.

Nothing is a problem if you´re playing against a horde of kartoffeln - anyone dying with the current patch in a Xv1 when playing full defense falls into that category.

gibous

@Lunch.Box have you tried the undaunted healing orb ability? Probably heals for dirt but it doesn't require resto.

In my opinion I don't think you can get away with just surge/blood magic/entropy. As Derra pointed out, shieldbreaker will be a huge issue, and requiring a target in order to heal will not help you when you need to LOS if you're outnumbered.

Ezareth

Lunch.Box wrote: »

Just wanted to get some sorcs thoughts on scrapping the restro for a more offensive healing route. Instead of using blessing or healing ward, subbing in Degeneration and/or Surge to keep heals going but staying 100% offensive (aside from throwing on hardened/harness). Anyone tried this out with success or is the healing simply not enough to give up that healing stick? Was thinking about a change of pace but thought I'd ask if anyone has done it?

That's the build I'm currently sing on my Sorc.

Destro + Sword & Board.

I run both degeneration and Crit-surge for heals (Degeneration is on my overload bar.).

Between that, mines, fragments and tri-stats I have plenty of healing and dont need to equip a staff for a single ability.

Ezareth

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Lunch.Box wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I don't think it's possible to ditch resto staff in pvp, at least not with a single target build anyway. I'm prepared to be wrong though. I run 5 light and 2 heavy so have 22k spell resistance and 17k physical resistance with boundless storm up. I also run power surge and get healed by blood magic from frags and mines. I still need to carry a resto staff though just for healing ward. Half of my damage skills don't even proc surge and blood magic has like a 4 second cool down. I will admit I don't actually know how much dark exchange heals for but I hear it's not good.

It might be more feasible if you ran a high crit aoe build, but you still have damage shields unable to be crit, so surge will never heal you while fighting a damage shield user unless something is changed. I think zos are trying to address this.

Thought they allowed surge heals to proc on shields? Of course I wouldn't be surprised if it's screwed up. I'd be running a single target build with prox det mixed in so restro may still be my best bet. I tend to play very offensively so hoped heals could come from the damage output. Looks like I'll test it and see how it all pans out, probably not a common path most sorcs use.

I have come across a few destro/sword + board sorcs so perhaps it's just a play style adjustment to break from typical sorc mold.

On pts but not on live. But shields still aren't crittable on pts, so the surge heal from damage to shields isn't calculated in the same way. People are saying it heals for as little as 180hp regardless of damage done, even if there was no cooldown on this it wouldn't be enough. Really high crit builds (50%+) might be able to rely on surge more as a heal, but until we can get health back from curse and mine crits it seems a bit suicidal to ditch resto staff if you're single-target.

I run Power Surge and get heals for 10K regualrly. I've had Degeneration heals for up to 33K (in PvE), in PvP I've had them for around 15K.

olsborg

You could drop restostaff if it wasnt for shieldbreaker, afraid that set will mess you up too much. Sorc kinda have to use restostaff, its one of the most generic classes in the game (magicka sorc)

Unstable.Pixel

gibous wrote: »

@Lunch.Box have you tried the undaunted healing orb ability? Probably heals for dirt but it doesn't require resto.

In my opinion I don't think you can get away with just surge/blood magic/entropy. As Derra pointed out, shieldbreaker will be a huge issue, and requiring a target in order to heal will not help you when you need to LOS if you're outnumbered.

I hadn't even thought about using that skill honestly. Gave it a shot even running surge and then tried degen and while 1v1 its fine, any 1vX situation and I'm dying for my heal spam.

Ezareth wrote: »

Lunch.Box wrote: »

Just wanted to get some sorcs thoughts on scrapping the restro for a more offensive healing route. Instead of using blessing or healing ward, subbing in Degeneration and/or Surge to keep heals going but staying 100% offensive (aside from throwing on hardened/harness). Anyone tried this out with success or is the healing simply not enough to give up that healing stick? Was thinking about a change of pace but thought I'd ask if anyone has done it?

That's the build I'm currently sing on my Sorc.

Destro + Sword & Board.

I run both degeneration and Crit-surge for heals (Degeneration is on my overload bar.).

Between that, mines, fragments and tri-stats I have plenty of healing and dont need to equip a staff for a single ability.

Going to try giving the old sword + board a shot and see if that extra defense on the off-bar will help survivability some. There is another sorc I've dueled against a few times and it seems to work well for him, though no clue how well he does on the 1vX side of things with it.

Ezareth

Lunch.Box wrote: »

gibous wrote: »

@Lunch.Box have you tried the undaunted healing orb ability? Probably heals for dirt but it doesn't require resto.

In my opinion I don't think you can get away with just surge/blood magic/entropy. As Derra pointed out, shieldbreaker will be a huge issue, and requiring a target in order to heal will not help you when you need to LOS if you're outnumbered.

I hadn't even thought about using that skill honestly. Gave it a shot even running surge and then tried degen and while 1v1 its fine, any 1vX situation and I'm dying for my heal spam.

Ezareth wrote: »

Lunch.Box wrote: »

Just wanted to get some sorcs thoughts on scrapping the restro for a more offensive healing route. Instead of using blessing or healing ward, subbing in Degeneration and/or Surge to keep heals going but staying 100% offensive (aside from throwing on hardened/harness). Anyone tried this out with success or is the healing simply not enough to give up that healing stick? Was thinking about a change of pace but thought I'd ask if anyone has done it?

That's the build I'm currently sing on my Sorc.

Destro + Sword & Board.

I run both degeneration and Crit-surge for heals (Degeneration is on my overload bar.).

Between that, mines, fragments and tri-stats I have plenty of healing and dont need to equip a staff for a single ability.

Going to try giving the old sword + board a shot and see if that extra defense on the off-bar will help survivability some. There is another sorc I've dueled against a few times and it seems to work well for him, though no clue how well he does on the 1vX side of things with it.

The trick to using sword and board on a sorc is having enough stamina regen to use it fully and not trying to block things that you don't have to. Block should be used *very* sparingly. The primary benefit is in the extra set bonus + enchant, trait bonus, and passive defense as well as access to defensive posture.

catalyst10e

Personally I've dropped the Resto altogether. I wasn't healing enough to be considered a "healer" and I kinda fell in the classic pit fall of trying to be a damage dealer AND a healer, which just means I was bad at both of them, never enough magika to go around. I bought a respec scroll, and took out all the points in resto, placed them in other skills, and I've been happy ever since. I've got my hardened ward, Dark Conversion, and (sometimes) Degeneration for self preservation. I stay alive longer, I've killed more players then ever before, and NOW I don't get blamed when the tanky werewolves die, because I was apparently supposed to be following them spamming a heal button. Oh and now I just use 2 Destro staves.

In my personal experience, with dealing with people with shield breaker, having good CC and fraging them keeps them at bay long enough to either self heal if needed, or they never get close enough to hit. I'm not super pro at PVP, I do alright, it took me a little while to find a playstyle that i enjoyed but also worked well. So now I highly recommend any Sorc on the fence about dropping resto to give it a try.

cschwingeb14_ESO

The problem with going to anything other than resto is that you lose all ability to help out teammates. Ward+mutagen/rapid is very useful when you are not out on your own