Remove the group travel feature from PVP and here is the number one reason why.

Anazasi

It was never intended for players with multiple faction characters to be able to play more than one faction on a campaign. But, yet look and see what some of our favorite AD players are doing. This work-around is very toxic to factions. I have no issue with players having other factional characters but they should never be allowed to play on the same campaign. If this is not enough of a reason for ZOS to remove the travel to group leader work-around nothing is. Toxic players that play on AD for a few hours and then switch over to DC characters are exploiting a mechanic that was never intended to happen.

ZOS has no choice but to remove this feature, simply because they initially placed safe guards on campaigns to prevent this. No one should have to worry about fighting opposing guild members.

Remove the travel to group feature to secure the campaign integrity.

Rylana

Anazasi wrote: »

It was never intended for players with multiple faction characters to be able to play more than one faction on a campaign. But, yet look and see what some of our favorite AD players are doing. This work-around is very toxic to factions. I have no issue with players having other factional characters but they should never be allowed to play on the same campaign. If this is not enough of a reason for ZOS to remove the travel to group leader work-around nothing is. Toxic players that play on AD for a few hours and then switch over to DC characters are exploiting a mechanic that was never intended to happen.

ZOS has no choice but to remove this feature, simply because they initially placed safe guards on campaigns to prevent this. No one should have to worry about fighting opposing guild members.

Remove the travel to group feature to secure the campaign integrity.

I rather enjoy fighting my own guild mates. it makes for delicious TS trash talk with each other. Both when I die, and when they do.

Some people are just too damn serious about their pixels.

Psilent

Anazasi wrote: »

It was never intended for players with multiple faction characters to be able to play more than one faction on a campaign. But, yet look and see what some of our favorite AD players are doing. This work-around is very toxic to factions. I have no issue with players having other factional characters but they should never be allowed to play on the same campaign. If this is not enough of a reason for ZOS to remove the travel to group leader work-around nothing is. Toxic players that play on AD for a few hours and then switch over to DC characters are exploiting a mechanic that was never intended to happen.

ZOS has no choice but to remove this feature, simply because they initially placed safe guards on campaigns to prevent this. No one should have to worry about fighting opposing guild members.

Remove the travel to group feature to secure the campaign integrity.

Don't get your hopes up..

Quoted from ZOS_BrianWheeler

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Gated access on more campaigns is something we are discussing along with closing campaigns to compress population. We are also talking about removing Alliance restrictions in terms of only allowing players to have 1 alliance tied to campaigns along with the ability to "unassign" yourself. Several of these changes are tied to campaign population and performance issues however, which plan on addressing in incremental patches.

Looks like its something they want to remove, so potentially you could have all 3 factions for 1 account homed on the same campaign. At least that's how I read it.

Question for you @Anazasi why is this a problem? Just kill them....

Anazasi

Answer

Perhaps killing them is a better solution. But as I recall Benedict Arnold was simply exiled. I have never been a fan of this multi guild multi faction aspect of this game. I enjoy knowing my enemy but keeping them at a distance. When ever you blur the lines of combat / pvp you detract from the competitive nature of humans. Perhaps it is just a generational thing or maybe its a cultural thing or maybe its the simple team mentality. I just find it difficult to play with players that change factions constantly. Loyalty and trust as far as they can stretch in a game still gives way to intuitive individual actions and reactions. World PVP is challenging especially when are fighting players that know how you lead because they were running with you in your group an hour earlier.

Erondil

Don't remove the group travel feature from PVP and here is the number one reason why.

If my campaign is lagging crazy I want to have a way to find playable pvp or I would just quit.

DezIsDead

Erondil wrote: »

Don't remove the group travel feature from PVP and here is the number one reason why.

If my campaign is lagging crazy I want to have a way to find playable pvp or I would just quit.

this, lol also why is everyone so against T2P? i mean seriously most of the reasons i see are "ZOMG SPIES" or "OMG THEY ARE PORTING AROUND TO FARM". Well guess what? no one really freaking spies because it serves no purpose. seriously that is the most silly thing ever, you really thing an organized guild is gonna say "hey joe schmoe go spy on that AD pug group so we can not get wiped by them". heck no, and no sane person would be like " ok yeah man ill sit in a group and let you wipe me all night long". As for farming, well heck man thats been occurring forever, just get better if your getting farmed, ignore them, or wait till they flip the map and go back to their home campaign. Seriously T2P gives me the option to fight with my friends on all 3 alliances, and i like that, if that was removed id have no reason to be here as i barely have enough contacts in each faction left to make more than a 4 man group for each alliance. Idk man i get what your saying "rah rah faction pride!" but that ish went out the window forever ago, when people realized they could whisper cross alliance, and started building rapport with the enemy.

TLDR Plz dont remove t2p, faction pride isnt a thing, and you cant force it this late in the game.

FMonk

DezIsDead wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Don't remove the group travel feature from PVP and here is the number one reason why.

If my campaign is lagging crazy I want to have a way to find playable pvp or I would just quit.

this, lol also why is everyone so against T2P? i mean seriously most of the reasons i see are "ZOMG SPIES" or "OMG THEY ARE PORTING AROUND TO FARM". Well guess what? no one really freaking spies because it serves no purpose. seriously that is the most silly thing ever, you really thing an organized guild is gonna say "hey joe schmoe go spy on that AD pug group so we can not get wiped by them". heck no, and no sane person would be like " ok yeah man ill sit in a group and let you wipe me all night long". As for farming, well heck man thats been occurring forever, just get better if your getting farmed, ignore them, or wait till they flip the map and go back to their home campaign. Seriously T2P gives me the option to fight with my friends on all 3 alliances, and i like that, if that was removed id have no reason to be here as i barely have enough contacts in each faction left to make more than a 4 man group for each alliance. Idk man i get what your saying "rah rah faction pride!" but that ish went out the window forever ago, when people realized they could whisper cross alliance, and started building rapport with the enemy.

TLDR Plz dont remove t2p, faction pride isnt a thing, and you cant force it this late in the game.

This 100%. They honestly need to bring back travel to player as it was before patch 2.1, there was no problem with it then, and the changes have done literally nothing except make it more of a pain in the ass for people to play with their friends, which is terrible for a MMO.

Keiryan

Anazasi wrote: »

Answer

Perhaps killing them is a better solution. But as I recall Benedict Arnold was simply exiled. I have never been a fan of this multi guild multi faction aspect of this game. I enjoy knowing my enemy but keeping them at a distance. When ever you blur the lines of combat / pvp you detract from the competitive nature of humans. Perhaps it is just a generational thing or maybe its a cultural thing or maybe its the simple team mentality. I just find it difficult to play with players that change factions constantly. Loyalty and trust as far as they can stretch in a game still gives way to intuitive individual actions and reactions. World PVP is challenging especially when are fighting players that know how you lead because they were running with you in your group an hour earlier.

I can only assume you're taking shots at people who I consider friends of mine because I've played with them for 6 months to a year and they happen to frequent both your guild and mine.

Even you can't agree with your statement of how this detracts form the competitive nature of PvP.. infact it seems to have made you quite salty in your efforts to hunt down people that play with both guilds by going so far as to single them out and putting "bounties" on their head. You also point out about how it is challenging when people know you're leadership style. Isn't that a good thing that you need to adapt and become better? So far I'm only seeing benefits to cross-faction.

Ignoring all those potential points as I'm sure you will, anything they could tell me about your leadership (and they don't tell me anything, as I trust them not to say anything about the way I play) is not something that one round in open field couldn't help me figure out. Maybe that's what makes my crew so much tighter and the reason that my 16 destroys your 24-48, that I trust them and they've become solid players through their experiences with me and others. And they could lend that same experience to you, but it seems like you aren't taking advantage of it by instead coming on the forums and letting a river of salt flow every day about issues that you seem to commit every day.. other then cross-faction.

Hope you enjoyed the meteors to the face yesterday bae. Zerg ball and healing springs more, it won't save you.

asneakybanana

DezIsDead wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Don't remove the group travel feature from PVP and here is the number one reason why.

If my campaign is lagging crazy I want to have a way to find playable pvp or I would just quit.

this, lol also why is everyone so against T2P? i mean seriously most of the reasons i see are "ZOMG SPIES" or "OMG THEY ARE PORTING AROUND TO FARM". Well guess what? no one really freaking spies because it serves no purpose. seriously that is the most silly thing ever, you really thing an organized guild is gonna say "hey joe schmoe go spy on that AD pug group so we can not get wiped by them". heck no, and no sane person would be like " ok yeah man ill sit in a group and let you wipe me all night long". As for farming, well heck man thats been occurring forever, just get better if your getting farmed, ignore them, or wait till they flip the map and go back to their home campaign. Seriously T2P gives me the option to fight with my friends on all 3 alliances, and i like that, if that was removed id have no reason to be here as i barely have enough contacts in each faction left to make more than a 4 man group for each alliance. Idk man i get what your saying "rah rah faction pride!" but that ish went out the window forever ago, when people realized they could whisper cross alliance, and started building rapport with the enemy.

TLDR Plz dont remove t2p, faction pride isnt a thing, and you cant force it this late in the game.

Totally agree. It's hard enough getting homed and guested on a good campaign and if I cant port to another campaign that my ad toon is homed and guested on and those are the only servers with fights then u guess I just won't play for the next 3 days.

Starshadw

Psilent wrote: »

Question for you @Anazasi why is this a problem? Just kill them....

Here is why it's a problem - and this is when there were still supposed restrictions (I say supposed, because said restrictions didn't actually work previously - no idea if with IC, the restrictions actually function in terms of preventing a player with multiple faction characters from playing in the same campaign).

I have personally witnessed two players who, on the same campaign, switched to their AD characters, used said characters to take scrolls out of AD keeps and then proceeded to run them into DC territory, whereupon they switched to their DC characters, picked up said scrolls, and placed them in DC keeps.

This is in addition to the spying we all know takes place all the time, with someone logging into a character to feed information to their guildmates on an opposing faction.

This is the kind of cheating and/or exploitative behavior that comes from allowing people to play characters from multiple factions in the same campaign.

Keiryan

Starshadw wrote: »

I have personally witnessed two players who, on the same campaign, switched to their AD characters, used said characters to take scrolls out of AD keeps and then proceeded to run them into DC territory, whereupon they switched to their DC characters, picked up said scrolls, and placed them in DC keeps.

I personally haven't seen this kind of behaviour since .. 1.5? If people really wanted to do this sort of thing, they probably have friends with old accounts they could easily use since there is no subscription fee to go and do the same sort of thing. Stopping people from cross-factioning would only cause more problems and a mass exodus of people who were let down by ZoS because people whined and the forums and got what they wanted.

Starshadw wrote: »

This is in addition to the spying we all know takes place all the time, with someone logging into a character to feed information to their guildmates on an opposing faction.

Are you new to this game? Even if people do spy.. that is gimping their faction more by NOT having that person there to fight. Aside from 50/50ing which.. no one rarely announces in zone anyways, nothing much important is said in zone. Have you seen AD zone chat? It's basically a day time soap opera. DC is full of people trolling each other. EP... I don't remember, didn't play there long enough.

Anazasi

Spying is and will always be an issue. Even if all they do is log in at a gate with the appropriate add-on they can give information on which keeps have siege before they flag. Espionage is and can be extremely effective if used correctly and the fact that players just don't know is more disturbing than knowing. I think that is the intent of limiting the opportunities for such behavior and realistically the only way to have a chance.

Asmael

The current system is an unsatisfying middle ground.

RESTRICTIVE) No account can have characters in more than one faction in the same campaign
CURRENT) An account can have characters in more than one faction in the same campaign if they group with someone currently in the campaign
FREE ACCESS) An account may have as many characters as wanted in the same campaign, no matter the faction

It doesn't really make sense. I wanted to do some duels with EP guildies, so I made a DC alt, so how come I can't join a campaign on my own, but I can if I'm grouping with a regular DC?

I'd support, however, a FREE ACCESS, simply because you have ways to get alts on different factions, or just different guildies. You can even have 2 different accounts to be able to do it on your own, so... Might as well make it free access.

Starshadw wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Question for you @Anazasi why is this a problem? Just kill them....

Here is why it's a problem - and this is when there were still supposed restrictions (I say supposed, because said restrictions didn't actually work previously - no idea if with IC, the restrictions actually function in terms of preventing a player with multiple faction characters from playing in the same campaign).

I have personally witnessed two players who, on the same campaign, switched to their AD characters, used said characters to take scrolls out of AD keeps and then proceeded to run them into DC territory, whereupon they switched to their DC characters, picked up said scrolls, and placed them in DC keeps.

This is in addition to the spying we all know takes place all the time, with someone logging into a character to feed information to their guildmates on an opposing faction.

This is the kind of cheating and/or exploitative behavior that comes from allowing people to play characters from multiple factions in the same campaign.

Not that I doubt you, but what happened exactly? You can't just pick up a scroll from one of your own keep, unless it's not a homekeep AFAIK.

Starshadw

Keiryan wrote: »

I personally haven't seen this kind of behaviour since .. 1.5? If people really wanted to do this sort of thing, they probably have friends with old accounts they could easily use since there is no subscription fee to go and do the same sort of thing. Stopping people from cross-factioning would only cause more problems and a mass exodus of people who were let down by ZoS because people whined and the forums and got what they wanted.

I saw the scenario I described to you about two weeks before IC dropped.

Keiryan wrote: »

Are you new to this game? Even if people do spy.. that is gimping their faction more by NOT having that person there to fight. Aside from 50/50ing which.. no one rarely announces in zone anyways, nothing much important is said in zone. Have you seen AD zone chat? It's basically a day time soap opera. DC is full of people trolling each other. EP... I don't remember, didn't play there long enough.

Been here since beta, thank you. And spying still happens, no matter that you think otherwise. Sometimes they are easy to spot (Oh, hello there level 10 characters with crappy gear trailing along after our group), sometimes not. But the concern over spies is one of the reason many groups are reluctant to respond to PUGs asking for a group in zone.

Asmael wrote: »

Not that I doubt you, but what happened exactly? You can't just pick up a scroll from one of your own keep, unless it's not a homekeep AFAIK.

It's been a while, but essentially, two players logged into their AD characters, each one going and picking up a scroll at one of the AD keeps (no, I'm afraid I don't remember which ones at this point) and proceeded to travel with them all through our zone, up into DC territory. Of course, being AD ourselves, there was zero we could do about it. At the time, we were on the other side of the map fighting EP.

Then, once deep into blue territory, said two players logged into their DC characters, and proceeded to carry the scrolls and place them.

Joy_Division

Starshadw wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Question for you @Anazasi why is this a problem? Just kill them....

Here is why it's a problem - and this is when there were still supposed restrictions (I say supposed, because said restrictions didn't actually work previously - no idea if with IC, the restrictions actually function in terms of preventing a player with multiple faction characters from playing in the same campaign).

I have personally witnessed two players who, on the same campaign, switched to their AD characters, used said characters to take scrolls out of AD keeps and then proceeded to run them into DC territory, whereupon they switched to their DC characters, picked up said scrolls, and placed them in DC keeps.

This is in addition to the spying we all know takes place all the time, with someone logging into a character to feed information to their guildmates on an opposing faction.

This is the kind of cheating and/or exploitative behavior that comes from allowing people to play characters from multiple factions in the same campaign.

This is how I can spy, cheat, troll, exploit, ruin your PVP experience even after you implement an iron curtain restriction, which never allows character from multiple faction in the same campaign.

My DC is homed on Azura's.
My EP is homed on Trueflame.
No campaign movement is possible because of the various guild/home restrictions, inability to drop campaigns, or even reassign guest campaigns unless you stop playing completely for 72 hours.

My DC guild decides to home Trueflame.

Nice. Now you made it impossible for me to play legitimately with my DC. Since I have no choice, I'll be logging on to my red reporting all EP movements, which keeps are undefended for prep, I'll take the yellow scroll and head towards Glademist instead of Arrius, etc. I can only hope they bring back Forward Camps so I can put down some troll camps and sabotage an emperor defense.

Keiryan

Joy_Division wrote: »

I can only hope they bring back Forward Camps so I can put down some troll camps and sabotage an emperor defense.

This is the one, and only valid reason to not have cross-factioning. And even then, I've had people of my own faction troll-camp my Emperorships to get me dethroned cause they couldn't beat me on the leaderboards.

Camps are gone though so its a mute point.

Starshadw wrote: »

Been here since beta, thank you. And spying still happens, no matter that you think otherwise. Sometimes they are easy to spot (Oh, hello there level 10 characters with crappy gear trailing along after our group), sometimes not. But the concern over spies is one of the reason many groups are reluctant to respond to PUGs asking for a group in zone.

I don't know about you, but I lead groups more or less every night.. and never once have I had anything I planned be stifled or even remotely disturbed by what I would call.. "spying". If someone is following me around it's usually my own faction trying to keep up with the flow of juicy ap that drips from my coat tails when my enemies explode.

Spying may happen, but to complain or even let it bother you is keen to a paranoid delusion that what you're doing in Cyrodiil actually makes any difference.

Ghostbane

My AD seised to be homed on Trueflame once my DC became Alliance active.

None of my AD toons have been Alliance active in TF since, they have currently been playing on AZ. Our guild leader can confirm this.

I really don't understand this whole 'spying' thing. A map is not difficult to forecast, and in the case, respond too. If someone is immaturely passing information, kick them.

Anazasi

I don't see it either all I was pointing out is that it can be done easily enough. Honestly if players feel the need to "spy" then so be it. If that's the type of game they want to play who am I to say they cant.

eliisra

Spies are not a problem lol. There's no incentive, besides trolling in zone. I mean who still cares enough about the war to queue on some alt? You dont even need spies to know where the enemy is going to attack. Use addons.

Only one problem with group queues. That's when multiple large organized raids+ PvP guilds from same faction arrives on the same campaign. All of a sudden there's 2 new full enemy raids in the mix lagging to crap, because one leader in their alliance called for help so 80+ can crown his best buddy and paint the entire map blue, red or yellow.

Without campaign hopping, the main forces within each faction, will be more spread out.

However I still like to keep group queue's for now. With this many campaigns, it's hard to find one that's actually fun, somewhat balanced with decent action. You often have move around and test many, because one is zerged down, other is dead and third your own faction owns everything.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

The way I read the quote from Mr Wheeler is that you will have to choose which faction you are gonna PVP for and then it is locked to the account. That way, if you choose to PVP for the EP, you will only be able to PVP for the EP no matter which character on your account that you use. This is something that is badly needed to prevent the spying issue. They could also put in controls for the population imbalance by restricting faction access for PVP until all of the factions have a balance. This is also badly needed. Hopefully it will be sooner than later.

rich.magab14a_ESO

The idea of logging into another toon to spie is moronic. They're may have been a couple people who tried it and that they found that it kind of sucks. If you feel that someone is spying on you perhaps you should look into
A) How am I or my group is playing today? are we kind of all over the place therefore we're unorganized and suck?
B)Is someone in my group doing a live stream? therefore allowing for a more practical and easier way to be spied on.
C) IF B is a negative go back to A

kevlarto_ESO

Anazasi wrote: »

It was never intended for players with multiple faction characters to be able to play more than one faction on a campaign. But, yet look and see what some of our favorite AD players are doing. This work-around is very toxic to factions. I have no issue with players having other factional characters but they should never be allowed to play on the same campaign. If this is not enough of a reason for ZOS to remove the travel to group leader work-around nothing is. Toxic players that play on AD for a few hours and then switch over to DC characters are exploiting a mechanic that was never intended to happen.

ZOS has no choice but to remove this feature, simply because they initially placed safe guards on campaigns to prevent this. No one should have to worry about fighting opposing guild members.

Remove the travel to group feature to secure the campaign integrity.

I agree removing travel to leader was removed and this added did nothing, that's is why the three faction warfare in this game is meaningless no faction pride or campaign pride, should be 1 faction one campaign, more DAOC style, which is a game that's is still up and running and still has a sub since October 9 2001, but I guess it is what it is.. /shrug