Battle Leveling Suggestions

MrTarkanian48

So I think many players would agree that PVP has been less enjoyable since the patch, especially at lower levels. Some players seem to think its fine, but I would dare to suggest that most of them are VR14+ players with battle leveling turned off. This whole time I thought it was the 50% damage reduction which was the issue, but have finally realized that the real problem is Battle Leveling. I think the damage reduction in itself would be a good thing, but when added to the changes in battle leveling it has been a real problem.

@ottobot had a great post here: forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/217748/non-vet-pvp-battle-leveling-and-you-a-hopefully-helpful-guide#latest

Basically if you have battle level turned on you have the following stats:
29,474 Health.
16,757 Magicka and Stamina.
399 Health Recovery.
618 Magicka and Stamina Recovery.
1381 Spell and Weapon Damage.
10% Spell and Weapon Crit.
8978 Spell and Physical Resistance.

With Battle Level turned on you have very limited ways to adjust these stats, but can tweak them slightly with food buffs, racial passives, mundus stones, and reduced cost jewelry. You can up your performance in combat with buffs/debuffs. Other than that, your gear choice (set bonuses+enchants) and attribute allocation have little to no effect on your characters stats. In fact, you could enter cyrodiil without any gear on and have the same stats. You are basically forced into being a hybrid build with the majority of your attributes into health, and then equal parts into magicka and stamina. I currently switched my 4 piece magnus/4 piece seducer on a magicka build out for 5 piece Night's Silence (stamina gear). This seems absolutely ridiculous, but at least with the NS gear I get a sneak bonus, where Magnus/Seducer gives me nothing on my battle leveled (level47) character in PVP.

So now if you are not VR14+, all players are basically forced to be clones of each other with very similar stats. Sure your class abilities are different, but other than that you are virtually identical. This makes PVP at low levels just feel watered down and generic in my opinion. You work hard to tweak your build to your liking in PVE, just to enter PVP and be forced to be a clone of everyone else.

Some possible alternatives:

1) When entering cyrodiil, award players the difference in attribute points to distribute on top of their base stats as they so choose. For example, a lvl 48 magicka sorcerer enters cyrodiil with 48 attributes into magicka. They are awarded an additional 16 points to place where they choose while in cyrodiil (most likely magicka, however they can choose to mix between health and stam as they so choose). Another lvl48 DK Tank enters cyrodiil with 24 points into health and 24 points into stam, and gets awarded 16 points where they so choose. Obviously when leaving cyrodiil these additional attribute points will be revoked.

This would allow for players to diversify their builds, instead of everyone running around with 30khealth/16k mag/16k stam . They will hit harder, but have less health, and still not be OP due to the 50% damage reduction as well as damage of their level weapons. I think this would be favorable in comparison to the current state of high health pools and low damage.

2) Somehow make gear matter at low levels. It seems really lame that I could literally run around naked and have the same armor, regen, weapon/spell damage etc as anyone else. I am not saying make it scale to the equivalent of VR14 gear, but make it have an impact on gameplay. Obviously vet 16's with high level sets will still have an advantage, but IMO they should have an advantage.

3) On top of this a good improvement may be to isolate non-vet and vet campaigns. Make non-vet scale (in the same way discussed in point #1 above) to 50 and be only for non-vets, and make vet campaign scale to VR14 and only allow vet players.

I think some tweaks like this could really improve the state of PVP atm, and bring back some solo play. Battle leveling in its current state doesn't really benefit anyone. Sure low level players can stay alive longer with a crazy amount of health, but can they really compete with VR16 players when their resource pools/damage are half or less than half in some cases of VR16 opponents. Also with their damage being so low it seems to fuel the zerg mentality.

On the other hand it seems as though many high level players would rather fight other high level players because they can actually burst them down quicker than a battle leveled player with 30k health. I am not advocating making low level players on par with VR14+ players, and I think high level vets deserve to have advantages that come with better gear and more skill points. But I don't think making all lower level players identical clones with tanky health and low damage is the best option either.

Any other suggestions/opinions are welcome.

ColoursYouHave

I would love to see them develop some sort of ratio system to determine battle leveled stats. They could just give you one large pool for each "group" of stats (such as magicka, health, and stamina regen, or spell and weapon damage), and distribute those stats to your battle leveled characters based on the ratio of stats on your non-battle leveled characters. For example, say a non-battle leveled character has 6000 magicka, 6000 health, and 3000 stamina, for a 2:2:1 ratio. That player, when battle leveled, should be given around 25200 magicka and health, and 12600 stamina, based on the total pool of approximately 63000 distributed between those three stats in the current system (obviously this is just a rough idea and some tweaks to the total stat pools would likely be necessary). The same could be done for regen, damage, crit, and resistance. While I do enjoy the unique play-style generated from the current battle leveling system, I think that a system like this could really allow people to diversify their builds in battle leveled pvp, while still preventing players from obtaining too much of any one stat (ignoring champion points, as that is a whole different issue) because of the arbitrary cap on the stats that get distributed.

raasdal

AFAIK the 8% Cost Reduction on Seducer set does still work in Battle Leveled PvP ?

For the record, i am currently playing a battleleved Sorc, and i do not feel that i am forced to make a Hybrid. With food i have 23/24k Magicka. That is low, yes. But manageable. Battle Levelling is meant to give you a fighting chance. Not to give you actual playability or ability to create "real" builds.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Ok really why are players are so butt hurt about battle level ? Really a level 10 may have the stats of a Vr14 but that doesn't mean they have the gear, skill, attribute points, or skill points of a Vr14.

Alucardo

I have 38k health, 2048 weapon damage, 1024 stam regen on BWB

Level 20. #dealwithit

mcurley

Alucardo wrote: »

I have 38k health, 2048 weapon damage, 1024 stam regen on BWB

Level 20. #dealwithit

Is that weapon damage with Brutality buff(s)?

zornyan

My imperial Magika Templar has 43k hp at vr9 when battle leveled and 1800 spell power with major and minor sorcerery active.

zornyan

zornyan wrote: »

My imperial Magika Templar has 43k hp at vr9 when battle leveled and 1800 spell power with major and minor sorcerery active.

Forgot to mention that's with dual food active

Cathexis

The real problem is vet levels in general.

MrTarkanian48

raasdal wrote: »

AFAIK the 8% Cost Reduction on Seducer set does still work in Battle Leveled PvP ?

For the record, i am currently playing a battleleved Sorc, and i do not feel that i am forced to make a Hybrid. With food i have 23/24k Magicka. That is low, yes. But manageable. Battle Levelling is meant to give you a fighting chance. Not to give you actual playability or ability to create "real" builds.

The five piece seducer 8% reduction does work, however, IMO since none of the other 2/3/4 piece bonuses apply to my battle leveled character I found more utility with using 5 piece Night's Silence. I was not experiencing many problems with managing my Magicka pool. If the 2-3-4 piece bonuses actually had any effect on my character, seducer would be a no-brainer for a magicka build. My question is why PVP should lack "playability" for anyone lower than VR14+ since the majority of players are not VR14+? Why does BWB scale to VR14 when all players are non vets? It forces everyone to have battle level on, counterfeits any gear they have, and makes everyone run around with very similar stats. The greatest thing about this game IMO is the ability to build your player into a unique character with gear, attribute distribution, and skill points. This takes virtually all of the customization away from anyone under VR14.

Alucardo wrote: »

I have 38k health, 2048 weapon damage, 1024 stam regen on BWB

Level 20. #dealwithit

I would like to know how you achieved this because I find it hard to believe. Im assuming an Imperial with regen drinks, but still don't see it panning out to those stats. I'm in no way hating on it, and good for you if that is accurate. I actually would just like to know if I am missing something that can help boost stats in certain areas besides racial/class passives and mundus stones.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok really why are players are so butt hurt about battle level ? Really a level 10 may have the stats of a Vr14 but that doesn't mean they have the gear, skill, attribute points, or skill points of a Vr14.

I'm not butthurt about battle level in general, just think adjustments could make it better.They really do not have the comparable stats of a VR14. They have a simulated version of equal attribute points, but the way the points are distributed between health/stam/magicka is a weird ratio that 99% of players would never choose. I have not seen anyone competitive put 34+ in health, 15 in magicka, 15 in stamina. It's a strange balance that makes players tanky, yet ineffective.

Alot of people are complaining about all the zerging that is going on, and I would argue that it is directly related to this issue. TTK is very long due to battle leveled high HP pools combined with 50% damage reduction. Coupled with the fact that these players do not hit very hard they tend to run in groups since its the only way to kill enemy players effectively. Now the only way to take out a group of players is by having any even bigger group...

I am not advocating letting a level 10 get battle leveled to equivalent stats of VR14, but maybe figure out a way to make them at least in the ball park of a normal build instead of a tanky ineffective hybrid and allow for some customization at low levels in terms of gear.

Alucardo

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

I would like to know how you achieved this because I find it hard to believe. Im assuming an Imperial with regen drinks, but still don't see it panning out to those stats. I'm in no way hating on it, and good for you if that is accurate. I actually would just like to know if I am missing something that can help boost stats in certain areas besides racial/class passives and mundus stones.

Imperial, full set of divines, warrior mundus, purple tri-stat food and a megaton of CPs. Enjoy your new build.

mcurley

Alucardo wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

I would like to know how you achieved this because I find it hard to believe. Im assuming an Imperial with regen drinks, but still don't see it panning out to those stats. I'm in no way hating on it, and good for you if that is accurate. I actually would just like to know if I am missing something that can help boost stats in certain areas besides racial/class passives and mundus stones.

Imperial, full set of divines, warrior mundus, purple tri-stat food and a megaton of CPs. Enjoy your new build.

Are you running all gold gear in BwB?

Waffennacht

I found that my light gear passives work. It boosted my crit to 28%, some armor set stuff work, anything with a percentage still works.

As Im vet 8 I specifically changed gear and spells to be more PvP (see heavy armor passives are healing based, with the heal nerf a COST reduction of mid or light armor passive is way more effective)

Spell or ability boosts work, so boundless storm as example will raise your resist a ton (even with no attributes in magicka etc lol)

So, Its not like all builds are the same. They have a same base set however you can get more performance knowing what works and what doesn't.

Its like eso has three phases, 1-50 vet 1-13 and then vet 14+.

I personally really enjoy it, the changing phases keeps me entertained. I do have to have a PvE armor in the bank though

rb2001

Suggestion: Eliminate it.

It makes no sense. The point of gaining levels is to gain power. The point of gaining power is to be able to do more things in the world.

It creates problems (more complaints, more expectation for low level to be able to match long term high level players, complaints and misunderstandings about how it works, changes to how it works resulting in more said complaints and misunderstandings).

It does not solve any problems (a low level player not being able to compete with veterans is not a problem to begin with, but rather the fundamental reason to level up, the reward of leveling up and playing the game).

Why are people trying to PK V16s with level 10's and expecting good results? Why do players expect that this should be possible? Why is that sensible?

Battle level is nonsense.

ZOS_RichLambert

/lurk

CP5

rb2001 wrote: »

Suggestion: Eliminate it.

It makes no sense. The point of gaining levels is to gain power. The point of gaining power is to be able to do more things in the world.

It creates problems (more complaints, more expectation for low level to be able to match long term high level players, complaints and misunderstandings about how it works, changes to how it works resulting in more said complaints and misunderstandings).

It does not solve any problems (a low level player not being able to compete with veterans is not a problem to begin with, but rather the fundamental reason to level up, the reward of leveling up and playing the game).

Why are people trying to PK V16s with level 10's and expecting good results? Why do players expect that this should be possible? Why is that sensible?

Battle level is nonsense.

Because without it you are gating all pvp behind max level? I'll be honest, about a year ago when I started playing non-vet a lot that was the best pvp I had played in the game. It was in part because of the lower population but also because of battle leveling.

Waffennacht

The outrage over power gap would only get more massive if you removed it. Its bad as is lol (the outrage)

I like the feel of pvp now. I can actually get a challenge out of a few lower levels. Also the pace was just too high before. Like it was so fast there was no use in combos etc now buffs and stealthes and combos matter.

I still feel bad for a low level when I come across them, so its not like there isn't any benefit from being a higher level

MrTarkanian48

rb2001 wrote: »

Suggestion: Eliminate it.

It makes no sense. The point of gaining levels is to gain power. The point of gaining power is to be able to do more things in the world.

It creates problems (more complaints, more expectation for low level to be able to match long term high level players, complaints and misunderstandings about how it works, changes to how it works resulting in more said complaints and misunderstandings).

It does not solve any problems (a low level player not being able to compete with veterans is not a problem to begin with, but rather the fundamental reason to level up, the reward of leveling up and playing the game).

Why are people trying to PK V16s with level 10's and expecting good results? Why do players expect that this should be possible? Why is that sensible?

Battle level is nonsense.

I would completely agree with this if they created campaigns for different levels (ex. lvl 10-30, lvl 30-50, lvl VR1-8, lvl VR8-16, or something similar). I just don't think its okay to make PvP unsurvivable for only the highest level players. I have been playing this game ALOT and getting to that level doesn't happen overnight. By simply eliminating it and not making changes to the campaigns I think you would alienate alot of casual players. I would think it would be in the best interests of the game to make PvP fun for players at all levels. So either 1) Eliminate Battle Level and create new campaigns for various levels or 2) Figure out a way to scale battle leveled stats and gear so that they are more unique to the build, but not putting them at the same level of VR16 with endgame gear. Either option would make PvP a great time, but still motivate people to want to progress and obtain better gear.

mcurley

Eliminating Battle Leveling is not the solution. I don't have the time to grind my heros to v16 and then buy/craft them all gold gear so I can compete with the people who can spend all day playing while I'm at work.

At least don't take it from BwB... maybe taking it out of vet-PvP could boost the populations in BwB... hmmm.

Anyway... it's great to be able to reroll a new hero and actually have a fighting chance to compete at lvl 10.

What is not great is that my gear choices play almost no role in my overall performance.

Maybe something like this in BwB would allow for more diversity while not giving advantage to players just for playing more than others.

Rules

1. Health / Magicka / Stamina and their regeneration rates are set equal to those of a naked lvl50 hero.

2. Give everyone 49 attribute points to distribute as they see fit.

3. Give everyone a certain number of "PvP CPs"... as long as they are equal the number doesn't matter.

(the following rules are to eliminate the quality aspect of gear to make sure, once again, that simply playing the game longer doesn't give you an advantage... keeping skill the only factor)

4. Set amounts of Armor/Spell resistance on gear pieces based on armor type and slot. For example light chests all have X armor/resistance, medium chests all have Y*X armor/resistance, heavy chests all have Z*X armor/resistance. Z > Y.

5. Weapon damage is based only on weapon type. (2h melee, 2h ranged, 1h)

6. Enchantments are all equal based on slot. (white enchantments give same stats as gold enchantments)

7. Sets give equal bonuses regardless of quality.

8. Traits are not affected by armor quality.

I'm sure Battle Spirit would need to be tweaked a little but I think this would be a good start for making non-vet PvP more fun for theorycrafters who don't have the time to get all blinged out at v16.

I know a lot of people will think I'm crazy for wanting skill to be the only factor of performance in a competitive MMO but that's fine... I don't have the time for grinding anymore and I'm sure others feel the same way.

Now if veteran ranks were removed all together ... the grind wouldn't be so bad and I'd have no complaints about removing Battle Leveling completely.

xXNesTXx

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok really why are players are so butt hurt about battle level ? Really a level 10 may have the stats of a Vr14 but that doesn't mean they have the gear, skill, attribute points, or skill points of a Vr14.

Gear, skill points, and all of this are completely irrelevant in this point

Two videos of how a non skilled guy (me) can defeat a vet 16 without too much problems

DK 15 with gear level 10, Ashen Grip Set

https://youtu.be/1HMd9VOJeNQ

DK 25 with gear level 24, Hunding Rage set

https://youtu.be/8BMXpvw_0dA

So i vote for remove the Battle leveling, too

For some reason exist the non veteran campaign, for novice players or low level characters.....

In addition, the battle leveling don't help to the new players, only makes a fake feeling of skill and make completely nonsense the level rating

KingShocker

I got super blasted on my thread about battle leveling, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's absurdly over tuned.