A Message Detailing Sorcerers

Mythk

A friend wanted me to post this on a new thread to hear some specific discussion on this matter in particular:

"I don't understand why there is so much hatred for the sorcerer class and (more specifically) my key build and playstyle (because lets be honest, most sorcerers were basically running a variant of the same build I've been refining and tuning since 1.3). Whenever I hopped onto my Dragonknight, I was able to defeat almost all sorcerers just by using my fundamental knowledge of the game. The same goes for when I was able to get on a magicka Nightblade. I was able to play the class for just 5 days before being able to defeat other sorcerers considered "top" and many that were using my build.

Shield stacking QQ has always been a L2P issue, as I have proved time and time again. I have defeated the top sorcerers and other players on my Dragonknight and on a Nightblade that I had less than a week of experience on. People need to learn what they are capable of and learn to adjust their build in order to defeat other players. The sorcerer build I created was once very narrow, unable to deal with many oppositions I faced. In 1.4, when I was never able to defeat Dragonknights, I created a Dragonknight and learned the class, so I would know how to counter it. In 1.5 when one of the only times I would ever lose was against magicka NBs, I constantly dueled the top Nightblades, having extended session with Sypher and Aetcha at that time, until I was able to beat them both. When I had trouble with sorcerers, I modified the slots on my resto bar to fit the occasion for who I was fighting and what utility skill was best needed.

I did the same on my Dragonknight and the Nightblade that I played for a week as well. I adapted and soon was able to beat easily over 95% of players that I encountered in a duel setting, and open world as well.

Players need to learn the fundamentals of the game and learn their strengths and weaknesses before crying so hard.
Now, I accept some blame perhaps because I shared my sorcerer build with a few people - I never realized that it would spread like wildfire and before I knew it nearly half of sorcerers in Cyrodiil were using a variant of my build.

Back to my point on the hatred of sorcerers though (sorry for the rant about L2P). People really need to focus on balance rather than attempting to get even with other classes. I will admit sorcerers were strong, but after defeating them on other classes, I cannot say they were godmode. They were merely strong. Bad players will see this as godmode, and now ZoS has awarded the bad players the shield breaker set. It is literally a one button shut down of a great build and quite honestly the only survival option a sorcerer has - sorcerers don't have reliable self heals, it is all about slow HoT'ing.

TL;DR - Sorry my build was decent and many ran it (rather than figuring something else out that worked), but it was counterable and I countered it with other classes. If people had ever bothered to L2P, we would never have such a ridiculously OP set in the game. We need to focus on balance if we want this game to survive, rather than going at each others throats to get "even".

-Germtrocity"

Poxheart

Cool story Germ.

CP5

Shame everyone kept getting killed by the same meta build and never wondered why people in the class gravitated to almost the same thing. Oh well, i'm sure the combat team is well aware of this and has been spending the better part of half a year collecting vital data from update 1.6 to give us the best update they can...

FMonk

I need a LOL button for the claim that every sorc in the game stole his build.

Stikato

tldr: I exploited, got banned, and can't seem to move on.

In the meantime, I'm going to remind everyone how good I am was.

Force-Siphon

FMonk wrote: »

I need a LOL button for the claim that every sorc in the game stole his build.

Um news flash most of us were running variants of this build in 1.6 and if you weren't you were gimping yourself or probably glass cannon overloading....except like ezareth, bolterity the pet whisperer, and a couple others. I mean I still see a couple of sorcs running it and they still even look just like German LOL.

The changes to Sorc in this patch were almost entirely aimed at variants of this build and ppl should accept that none of us are running around with 35k shields. But for gods sake give some credit where credit is due (and that means Bee also).

A lot of sorcs have rerolled this patch and the reason is that adapting is required to run this play style. We are not invincible, I know I die a lot. Right now a new meta is coming together with the different classes and we have to learn how to counter those builds. It's always going to be this way and all the qq at this point is out of hand. Stop raging on sorcs, every class has builds that are hard to fight against. All the Sorc forum posts are getting out of hand...you guys got the nerfs and you got shield breaker. Stop hating cuz we're awesome, ZOS basically spoon fed u counters.

ToRelax

FMonk wrote: »

I need a LOL button for the claim that every sorc in the game stole his build.

nearly half = everyone

FireCowCommando

Wait, is this a nerf sorc or a nerf nightblade thread? Im confused which band wagon i need to jump in for!

Alucardo

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Wait, is this a nerf sorc or a nerf nightblade thread? Im confused which band wagon i need to jump in for!

Hmm, I think it's neither. More of a "don't cry over sorc" thread.

kevlarto_ESO

The problem with all excessive skills in this game is no soft caps on magic, stamina and the like which allows for huge regens and crazy damage lets go to the real root of the problem, which allowed bolt escape to become bolt travel and shield to stack to crazy levels of protection and even absorb 100% of siege damage, had shield blocked a percent of damage might not have been so bad. Plus all the broken and exploitable games mechanics that I am sure got use a lot.

I think it is funny to see someone posting for a banned player, who sent nasty tells when they died on their sorc, and the amount of bragging in that post makes me want to hurl.

Master_Kas

Well I leveled my sorcerer to V14 in 1.6 just to prove a point, and I could go toe to toe with some of the best sorcs and players from other classes, specially in 1v1.

Most times I even outshine my main nightblade with it.

I can honestly say I felt my sorcerer was way more cheese than my nightblade (except my oneshot gank build but that wasn't nearly as sustainable in combat as my sorc).

Not saying that sorcerers had alot of options on what build to use tough , which is probably why nearly all sorcs ran similar builds. And I'm not saying this because I want sorcerer to be weak/useless as some think, since I enjoy playing my sorc from time to time also.

Edit: I didn't wear 5x nirnhoned on my nightblade tough, and 99% of the time I played with no nirn (skirmisher, bloodspawn, shadowwalker) which can be the reason why I felt my sorcerer had way better survival.

Erock25

It is funny to consider that this guy thought whatever he said up there was so important that he had someone else post it for him.

Derra

Force-Siphon wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

I need a LOL button for the claim that every sorc in the game stole his build.

Um news flash most of us were running variants of this build in 1.6 and if you weren't you were gimping yourself or probably glass cannon overloading....except like ezareth, bolterity the pet whisperer, and a couple others. I mean I still see a couple of sorcs running it and they still even look just like German LOL.

The changes to Sorc in this patch were almost entirely aimed at variants of this build and ppl should accept that none of us are running around with 35k shields. But for gods sake give some credit where credit is due (and that means Bee also).

A lot of sorcs have rerolled this patch and the reason is that adapting is required to run this play style. We are not invincible, I know I die a lot. Right now a new meta is coming together with the different classes and we have to learn how to counter those builds. It's always going to be this way and all the qq at this point is out of hand. Stop raging on sorcs, every class has builds that are hard to fight against. All the Sorc forum posts are getting out of hand...you guys got the nerfs and you got shield breaker. Stop hating cuz we're awesome, ZOS basically spoon fed u counters.

Still pretty vain to believe everyone stole that build. But i can only speak for the eu server. Basically everyone running engine guardian was just a trollbuild there.

Cinnamon_Spider

Your friend, huh?

The ones that tried to copy German are usually pretty easy to tell. Everytime I kill one, I say out loud "you're not Germantrocity" and then repentance them and their bot.

I was never a fan of Engine Guardian on a Sorcerer myself. Never tried it, because it seemed too cheesy on a class with decent defense and an escape. It almost seems like a necessity now with the bolt nerfs, but I'm working out some set combos that I like if I ever play my sorc again.

Leovolao

Force-Siphon wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

I need a LOL button for the claim that every sorc in the game stole his build.

Um news flash most of us were running variants of this build in 1.6 and if you weren't you were gimping yourself or probably glass cannon overloading....except like ezareth, bolterity the pet whisperer, and a couple others. I mean I still see a couple of sorcs running it and they still even look just like German LOL.

The changes to Sorc in this patch were almost entirely aimed at variants of this build and ppl should accept that none of us are running around with 35k shields. But for gods sake give some credit where credit is due (and that means Bee also).

A lot of sorcs have rerolled this patch and the reason is that adapting is required to run this play style. We are not invincible, I know I die a lot. Right now a new meta is coming together with the different classes and we have to learn how to counter those builds. It's always going to be this way and all the qq at this point is out of hand. Stop raging on sorcs, every class has builds that are hard to fight against. All the Sorc forum posts are getting out of hand...you guys got the nerfs and you got shield breaker. Stop hating cuz we're awesome, ZOS basically spoon fed u counters.

Most of us were, that doesn't mean we stole it from this guy.

TBois

Leovolao wrote: »

Force-Siphon wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

I need a LOL button for the claim that every sorc in the game stole his build.

Um news flash most of us were running variants of this build in 1.6 and if you weren't you were gimping yourself or probably glass cannon overloading....except like ezareth, bolterity the pet whisperer, and a couple others. I mean I still see a couple of sorcs running it and they still even look just like German LOL.

The changes to Sorc in this patch were almost entirely aimed at variants of this build and ppl should accept that none of us are running around with 35k shields. But for gods sake give some credit where credit is due (and that means Bee also).

A lot of sorcs have rerolled this patch and the reason is that adapting is required to run this play style. We are not invincible, I know I die a lot. Right now a new meta is coming together with the different classes and we have to learn how to counter those builds. It's always going to be this way and all the qq at this point is out of hand. Stop raging on sorcs, every class has builds that are hard to fight against. All the Sorc forum posts are getting out of hand...you guys got the nerfs and you got shield breaker. Stop hating cuz we're awesome, ZOS basically spoon fed u counters.

Most of us were, that doesn't mean we stole it from this guy.

Shhh, tea pot, even I stole his build lol

Lava_Croft

Germwho?

pmn100b16_ESO

The epeen is strong in this one

DisgracefulMind

With damage, shield, and Bolt Escape nerfs, it is time for the Sorcerer QQ to stop. There are much more powerful classes and builds in Cyrodiil now. Wish the crying would stop (:

Armitas

German. When you dueled the sorcs back in 1.6 on Dk were you stam or magicka? Just curious.

BigTone

I started leveling a nightblade about two months ago for a few reasons, and one was just in case the sorc nerfs got out of hand. Even though streak was nerfed (again) and shields were nerfed plus a set introduced who's sole purpose is to kill shield users, it still usually takes 3+ people to kill me. At the end of the day, the people who don't know how to play a sorc will feel the nerf the hardest while the rest of us will adapt and continue to wreck face.

To all of the sorcs who re-rolled or went stam in 1.7: You do not deserve the greatness that is the magicka sorcerer.

Lava_Croft

Magicka Sorcerers are so 1.6, they require the use of actual abilities for protection.

GRxKnight

I'm finding my sorc build works just fine in small scale encounters...drop mines and force pulse the hell out of fools while kiting...same old same old

Ahzek

I still dont know which build he is talking about

ToRelax

Ahzek wrote: »

I still dont know which build he is talking about

The fotm streak Sorcs you could farm at the end of 1.6.

Levo18

Cant wait for IC to hit consoles. Currently running imperial magicka nb will change to stamina for the shield breaker set oh boy.... Any advice? DW/Bow or 2h/bow?

Force-Siphon

Still pretty vain to believe everyone stole that build. But i can only speak for the eu server. Basically everyone running engine guardian was just a trollbuild there.

Yeah I'm talking about NA server...my time on EU definitely saw more diversity with builds.

PsychoKRATOS1

No issue with sorcs or night blades here. Heck they encompass over half my overall player kills. I enjoy killing over confident asses and find it even more satisfying when I CC and kill a bolt "escaping" sorcerer or DOT a nb who then can't use his disguise. (I hate those skills with a passion, more so bolt escape and made a point of not using it myself) when I see a sorc use it, "come back and fight you ***". Is usually my outcry.

Lots broken on this game, lots right with it too. What developer got balancing 100% correct on an RPG/MMORPG straight off the shelf? Most, if not all mmorpgs, are still having features and characters tweaked nerfed buffed and changed even after 5 10 even 15 years since release. This game is a youngun. ES have made brilliant SP RPGs.

Ezareth

Mythk wrote: »

A friend wanted me to post this on a new thread to hear some specific discussion on this matter in particular:

"I don't understand why there is so much hatred for the sorcerer class and (more specifically) my key build and playstyle (because lets be honest, most sorcerers were basically running a variant of the same build I've been refining and tuning since 1.3). Whenever I hopped onto my Dragonknight, I was able to defeat almost all sorcerers just by using my fundamental knowledge of the game. The same goes for when I was able to get on a magicka Nightblade. I was able to play the class for just 5 days before being able to defeat other sorcerers considered "top" and many that were using my build.

Shield stacking QQ has always been a L2P issue, as I have proved time and time again. I have defeated the top sorcerers and other players on my Dragonknight and on a Nightblade that I had less than a week of experience on. People need to learn what they are capable of and learn to adjust their build in order to defeat other players. The sorcerer build I created was once very narrow, unable to deal with many oppositions I faced. In 1.4, when I was never able to defeat Dragonknights, I created a Dragonknight and learned the class, so I would know how to counter it. In 1.5 when one of the only times I would ever lose was against magicka NBs, I constantly dueled the top Nightblades, having extended session with Sypher and Aetcha at that time, until I was able to beat them both. When I had trouble with sorcerers, I modified the slots on my resto bar to fit the occasion for who I was fighting and what utility skill was best needed.

I did the same on my Dragonknight and the Nightblade that I played for a week as well. I adapted and soon was able to beat easily over 95% of players that I encountered in a duel setting, and open world as well.

Players need to learn the fundamentals of the game and learn their strengths and weaknesses before crying so hard.
Now, I accept some blame perhaps because I shared my sorcerer build with a few people - I never realized that it would spread like wildfire and before I knew it nearly half of sorcerers in Cyrodiil were using a variant of my build.

Back to my point on the hatred of sorcerers though (sorry for the rant about L2P). People really need to focus on balance rather than attempting to get even with other classes. I will admit sorcerers were strong, but after defeating them on other classes, I cannot say they were godmode. They were merely strong. Bad players will see this as godmode, and now ZoS has awarded the bad players the shield breaker set. It is literally a one button shut down of a great build and quite honestly the only survival option a sorcerer has - sorcerers don't have reliable self heals, it is all about slow HoT'ing.

TL;DR - Sorry my build was decent and many ran it (rather than figuring something else out that worked), but it was counterable and I countered it with other classes. If people had ever bothered to L2P, we would never have such a ridiculously OP set in the game. We need to focus on balance if we want this game to survive, rather than going at each others throats to get "even".

-Germtrocity"

Plenty of sorcs ran a very similar build. The engine guardian/dawnbreaker combo was a 1.6 flavor. I'd say resto/destro is the oldest build in the game and I know of a few sorcs who always ignored health for stacking magicka like skaffa.

That said I'd say you are about as good as a sorc can be and as good as any sorc I've fought.

In a world where block spam and dodge roll spam is no longer possible, shield spam or the relative non-cost of the shields themselves remain an issue.

I was looking back to some of my earlier posts in the game yesterday where I was detailing my matchups against the best players of every class. In all of the fights that I lost one thing was always the deciding factor....I ran out of magicka. In 1.6 and in 2.1 this just isn't possible if you build your character right and have the right CPs. I think shield breaker is a garbage solution but I think the real issue is either the value of shields need reduced or the cost needs to be increased. A templar spamming BoL will eventually run OOM, but a sorc can spam hardened ward all day with the right build. Every defensive ability needs to be balanced. They've gimped the cost of most of the other defensive abilities in the game but shields themselves have thus far remained untouched on that front. Either they need to be crittable to allow actual burst damage or they need to be made expensive enough that one player can't cast them perpetually ad infinitum when he is being focused.

Ishammael

Ezareth wrote: »

Mythk wrote: »

A friend wanted me to post this on a new thread to hear some specific discussion on this matter in particular:

"I don't understand why there is so much hatred for the sorcerer class and (more specifically) my key build and playstyle (because lets be honest, most sorcerers were basically running a variant of the same build I've been refining and tuning since 1.3). Whenever I hopped onto my Dragonknight, I was able to defeat almost all sorcerers just by using my fundamental knowledge of the game. The same goes for when I was able to get on a magicka Nightblade. I was able to play the class for just 5 days before being able to defeat other sorcerers considered "top" and many that were using my build.

Shield stacking QQ has always been a L2P issue, as I have proved time and time again. I have defeated the top sorcerers and other players on my Dragonknight and on a Nightblade that I had less than a week of experience on. People need to learn what they are capable of and learn to adjust their build in order to defeat other players. The sorcerer build I created was once very narrow, unable to deal with many oppositions I faced. In 1.4, when I was never able to defeat Dragonknights, I created a Dragonknight and learned the class, so I would know how to counter it. In 1.5 when one of the only times I would ever lose was against magicka NBs, I constantly dueled the top Nightblades, having extended session with Sypher and Aetcha at that time, until I was able to beat them both. When I had trouble with sorcerers, I modified the slots on my resto bar to fit the occasion for who I was fighting and what utility skill was best needed.

I did the same on my Dragonknight and the Nightblade that I played for a week as well. I adapted and soon was able to beat easily over 95% of players that I encountered in a duel setting, and open world as well.

Players need to learn the fundamentals of the game and learn their strengths and weaknesses before crying so hard.
Now, I accept some blame perhaps because I shared my sorcerer build with a few people - I never realized that it would spread like wildfire and before I knew it nearly half of sorcerers in Cyrodiil were using a variant of my build.

Back to my point on the hatred of sorcerers though (sorry for the rant about L2P). People really need to focus on balance rather than attempting to get even with other classes. I will admit sorcerers were strong, but after defeating them on other classes, I cannot say they were godmode. They were merely strong. Bad players will see this as godmode, and now ZoS has awarded the bad players the shield breaker set. It is literally a one button shut down of a great build and quite honestly the only survival option a sorcerer has - sorcerers don't have reliable self heals, it is all about slow HoT'ing.

TL;DR - Sorry my build was decent and many ran it (rather than figuring something else out that worked), but it was counterable and I countered it with other classes. If people had ever bothered to L2P, we would never have such a ridiculously OP set in the game. We need to focus on balance if we want this game to survive, rather than going at each others throats to get "even".

-Germtrocity"

Plenty of sorcs ran a very similar build. The engine guardian/dawnbreaker combo was a 1.6 flavor. I'd say resto/destro is the oldest build in the game and I know of a few sorcs who always ignored health for stacking magicka like skaffa.

That said I'd say you are about as good as a sorc can be and as good as any sorc I've fought.

In a world where block spam and dodge roll spam is no longer possible, shield spam or the relative non-cost of the shields themselves remain an issue.

I was looking back to some of my earlier posts in the game yesterday where I was detailing my matchups against the best players of every class. In all of the fights that I lost one thing was always the deciding factor....I ran out of magicka. In 1.6 and in 2.1 this just isn't possible if you build your character right and have the right CPs. I think shield breaker is a garbage solution but I think the real issue is either the value of shields need reduced or the cost needs to be increased. A templar spamming BoL will eventually run OOM, but a sorc can spam hardened ward all day with the right build. Every defensive ability needs to be balanced. They've gimped the cost of most of the other defensive abilities in the game but shields themselves have thus far remained untouched on that front. Either they need to be crittable to allow actual burst damage or they need to be made expensive enough that one player can't cast them perpetually ad infinitum when he is being focused.

I want archmage set back!

Cinnamon_Spider

Ishammael wrote: »

I want archmage set back!

Agreed. However 4 piece Arch Mage and 5 Magnus isn't bad now either. I wonder if the neck will be avail in vet 16.