Let's cut the crap. How do PvPrs feel being FORCED to PvE?

Tectonaut

Complaining about being made to pve in a fantasy game is like complaining that you have to get firewood when you go camping.

Darlgon

Asherons_Call wrote: »

This is elder scrolls. PVE by default. You want PVP by default play a mindless shooter

Ahh.. but, way back in the day, before the public Betas, it was advertised as Open-World PVP. And, if ever the Justice System comes about, it will be just that... Enforcer players fighting criminal players in your PVE cities and towns.

But, thats part of the basic problem. Plus, there is this... I just read it earlier today, looking for another point:

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2012/10/18/reading-the-future-of-the-past-in-the-elder-scrolls

Loremaster Lawrence Schick wrote:

ESO is not a sequel to The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, or any of the other single-player games in the series – in fact, it’s set almost a thousand years before the events of Skyrim. Why did we do that?

First of all, it’s so we’re not treading on Bethesda Game Studios’ heels. BGS needs the leeway to continue their amazing series of single-player games without getting boxed in by or tangled up with ESO’s storylines. By setting our game in the series’ distant past, we avoid placing constraints on future BGS titles.

People keep saying this is Elder Scrolls.. Well.. yeah, but this is Zenimax Onlines version, not Bethesda Game Studios.

CaptainObvious

Sometimes I wonder if people post controversial things just to attempt to level up their forum account...

Leeric

It is fairly normal to expect PVE in an MMO what MMO can you progress just through PVP? Only those like Guild Wars who keep it mostly separated. ESO isnt like that. Now what is different here is that the VR 15 and 16 sets and items are tied exclusively to the PVP zone. As well as the place where you have to go to farm most VR 15 and 16 items.
So you force players into a PVP zone who dont want to be there. There is no valid complaint about forcing someone into a PVE zone because you don't lose anything in PVE and you dont get attacked unless you initiate. There is no one there to grief you in the same way.

ZOS continues to lie about what their plans are for ESO, so I can't blame people for complaining. Remember IC should have already been in the game anyways....

Rylana

ahampelb14_ESO wrote: »

Overall this is a PVE game with some PVP elements to it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH no.

I was waiting for this *** comment. This is a PvP game, was always marketed as one, and contains extremely poorly constructed PvE mechanics to satisfy the casual carebear that might not play it otherwise. Busy work, and some of the easiest PvE content ive ever seen in a AAA mmo, just to keep the soft stomached engaged in something to do while the real demographic tears each other apart in Cyro.

The Alliance War is literally the focus of the entire game, from story to setting. Hell even the choice of a faction as the start is a crucial piece leading to PvP, which side you represent.

So dont be giving me that drivel.

Lightninvash

we are madder than a Keebler elf being demoted .

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Tholian1

Rylana wrote: »

ahampelb14_ESO wrote: »

Overall this is a PVE game with some PVP elements to it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH no.

I was waiting for this *** comment. This is a PvP game, was always marketed as one, and contains extremely poorly constructed PvE mechanics to satisfy the casual carebear that might not play it otherwise. Busy work, and some of the easiest PvE content ive ever seen in a AAA mmo, just to keep the soft stomached engaged in something to do while the real demographic tears each other apart in Cyro.

The Alliance War is literally the focus of the entire game, from story to setting. Hell even the choice of a faction as the start is a crucial piece leading to PvP, which side you represent.

So dont be giving me that drivel.

So then why is a majority of the game PvE content and PvP is limited to only a couple zones?

Xendyn

Tholian1 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

ahampelb14_ESO wrote: »

Overall this is a PVE game with some PVP elements to it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH no.

I was waiting for this *** comment. This is a PvP game, was always marketed as one, and contains extremely poorly constructed PvE mechanics to satisfy the casual carebear that might not play it otherwise. Busy work, and some of the easiest PvE content ive ever seen in a AAA mmo, just to keep the soft stomached engaged in something to do while the real demographic tears each other apart in Cyro.

The Alliance War is literally the focus of the entire game, from story to setting. Hell even the choice of a faction as the start is a crucial piece leading to PvP, which side you represent.

So dont be giving me that drivel.

So then why is a majority of the game PvE content and PvP is limited to only a couple zones?

Because it's been corrupted from its original design.
See, the way this game was supposed to work was you choose a faction, period.
You level through your factions zones, get your skills up and Cyrodiil was the end game with Craglorn thrown in as an "adventure zone" with the Trials for a little pve endgame.

Then people came along and cried about not being able to see all the faction areas with one character and we ended up with this mess of tacked on Vet levels and the obviously inconsistent Cadwell's Silver and Gold.

Adding: They also cried about it not being "like Skyrim" and that's how we lost all the useful UI features we had.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Tholian1 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

ahampelb14_ESO wrote: »

Overall this is a PVE game with some PVP elements to it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH no.

I was waiting for this *** comment. This is a PvP game, was always marketed as one, and contains extremely poorly constructed PvE mechanics to satisfy the casual carebear that might not play it otherwise. Busy work, and some of the easiest PvE content ive ever seen in a AAA mmo, just to keep the soft stomached engaged in something to do while the real demographic tears each other apart in Cyro.

The Alliance War is literally the focus of the entire game, from story to setting. Hell even the choice of a faction as the start is a crucial piece leading to PvP, which side you represent.

So dont be giving me that drivel.

So then why is a majority of the game PvE content and PvP is limited to only a couple zones?

Since you asked ... when the game was originally designed Cadwell's Silver and Gold did not exist. A Daggerfall character was never supposed to set foot in the EP or AD zones. When the game was conceptualized the explorable PVE area was supposed to be 1/3rd of what it is now, which would be similarly sized to Cyrodiil now.

The More You Know ...

Dru1076

Clearly this is a learn to play issue. I am really tired of PVP angrybears coming in here and whining about a game they don't understand. Suck it up crybabies. (and no...i am in no way being serious)

But jests aside, none of us are forced to do anything. Oh...unless you want to complete the game and collect all the skyshards and tick off all the achievements. But honestly...going to PVE from PVP is surely much less challenging than the other way around, so of course you will see more threads from that perspective. But it is good to see the story from the other side.

Tholian1

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

ahampelb14_ESO wrote: »

Overall this is a PVE game with some PVP elements to it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH no.

I was waiting for this *** comment. This is a PvP game, was always marketed as one, and contains extremely poorly constructed PvE mechanics to satisfy the casual carebear that might not play it otherwise. Busy work, and some of the easiest PvE content ive ever seen in a AAA mmo, just to keep the soft stomached engaged in something to do while the real demographic tears each other apart in Cyro.

The Alliance War is literally the focus of the entire game, from story to setting. Hell even the choice of a faction as the start is a crucial piece leading to PvP, which side you represent.

So dont be giving me that drivel.

So then why is a majority of the game PvE content and PvP is limited to only a couple zones?

Since you asked ... when the game was originally designed Cadwell's Silver and Gold did not exist. A Daggerfall character was never supposed to set foot in the EP or AD zones. When the game was conceptualized the explorable PVE area was supposed to be 1/3rd of what it is now, which would be similarly sized to Cyrodiil now.

The More You Know ...

Nice history lesson. Doesn't change the fact that currently, the game is mostly PvE, making it, yes here it comes...

A PvE game with some PvP added for the niche group.

The More You Know...

Tholian1

Xendyn wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

ahampelb14_ESO wrote: »

Overall this is a PVE game with some PVP elements to it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH no.

I was waiting for this *** comment. This is a PvP game, was always marketed as one, and contains extremely poorly constructed PvE mechanics to satisfy the casual carebear that might not play it otherwise. Busy work, and some of the easiest PvE content ive ever seen in a AAA mmo, just to keep the soft stomached engaged in something to do while the real demographic tears each other apart in Cyro.

The Alliance War is literally the focus of the entire game, from story to setting. Hell even the choice of a faction as the start is a crucial piece leading to PvP, which side you represent.

So dont be giving me that drivel.

So then why is a majority of the game PvE content and PvP is limited to only a couple zones?

Because it's been corrupted from its original design.
See, the way this game was supposed to work was you choose a faction, period.
You level through your factions zones, get your skills up and Cyrodiil was the end game with Craglorn thrown in as an "adventure zone" with the Trials for a little pve endgame.

Then people came along and cried about not being able to see all the faction areas with one character and we ended up with this mess of tacked on Vet levels and the obviously inconsistent Cadwell's Silver and Gold.

Adding: They also cried about it not being "like Skyrim" and that's how we lost all the useful UI features we had.

This game is nothing like Skyrim.

Xendyn

Tholian1 wrote: »

So then why is a majority of the game PvE content and PvP is limited to only a couple zones?

Because it's been corrupted from its original design.
See, the way this game was supposed to work was you choose a faction, period.
You level through your factions zones, get your skills up and Cyrodiil was the end game with Craglorn thrown in as an "adventure zone" with the Trials for a little pve endgame.

Then people came along and cried about not being able to see all the faction areas with one character and we ended up with this mess of tacked on Vet levels and the obviously inconsistent Cadwell's Silver and Gold.

Adding: They also cried about it not being "like Skyrim" and that's how we lost all the useful UI features we had.[/quote]

This game is nothing like Skyrim.[/quote]

Yeh that's kinda the point there. Think you missed it.

Draxys

hammayolettuce wrote: »

I think a lot of people aren't seeing why this is such a big deal for PvPers. If you want an optimal build in PVP, you have to get the best gear, right? Well right now, the best gear ONLY drops in the new dungeons, is Bind on Pickup (I can't buy it) and the RNG is totally ***ed. I ran ICP several times last night and only received one piece from the new sets- and it was a set that is completely useless to me. I can't even trade it or sell it to someone who actually wants it. With the current drop rate, I will be forced to grind ICP and WGT for months before I can get all of the set pieces I need for PVP. The jewelry sets like Willpower and Agility are tradeable AND they drop from dungeons so you can opt out of farming trophies to get them. Also, none of the gear you can purchase with AP is that useful anymore, so the main source of income for PvPers is completely gone. I have to PvE to get the gear I want and to not go completely broke in this game. I'm not trying to argue that PvErs don't have it bad- I know PvP is rough the first time you come in, but to completely invalidate the problems of PvPers because you feel like you got the wrong end of the stick is just ignorant.

But seriously, WTF is up with that RNG? If it isn't fixed, I will quit because I am not ok with having to farm dungeons for months before I can get my gear. Make it BOE or increase the drop rates. You've already lost a ton of players over the lag and zerg-friendly PvP mechanics, don't make people rage quit over something you can easily change.

^
hear hear

byrom101b16_ESO

The root of the problem is that die-hard PvP'ers think this MMO is THEIRS.

The die-hard PvE'ers think it's THEIRS.

Actually it's EVERYONE'S, and the two sides of this never ending argument (ad nauseam...) need to stop barking at each other like mad dogs and start accommodating the other side's play styles.

It's what most of the people in the game do already - you know, the one's who aren't so egocentric as to think that everyone who doesn't have their point of view is to be insulted in the forums.

OtarTheMad

I don't mind it at all, Imperial City (besides a few headaches and frustrations) is pretty fun.

With that said I have been busier this week than most and so I haven't played much and it really feels like this update rewards people who play more vs. people who can't. The more I "fall behind" because of life stuff, the less likely I am to return because eventually I will be just too far behind to catch up (I speak of getting the new gear, the materials, doing the content etc.)

Tholian1

@Xendyn, if ZOS thought dumbing down the UI would make the game like Skyrim, then boy did they miss the mark on that one. If you are saying the solo experience is being like Skyrim, making this a PvE oriented game instead of a true mix of PvE/PvP, then yes I do get it.

Farorin

While I do actually enjoy both PVE and PVP, I will say this.

I wish I didn't HAVE to do PVE just to do PVP because often I don't feel like doing PVE and am often forced into it, especially considering I like to play alts, in which case you literally HAVE to do it if you want them leveled up.

So to all the pure PVE whiners out there that this thread is clearly a parody of, get your heads out of your butts. You guys aren't "forced" to do PVP as you can still access the gear without it by buying it, and level without playing PVP, yet PVPers are actually forced to do PVE.

Zachy_B

Love it. Fart salad man.

Dru1076

The arguments in here are fascinating. A lot of PVE'ers want to get all the skyshards, and they are forced to PVP to get the achienments and quests in Cyrodil and now IC.

This is not a PVE game, or a PVP game. Its an MMO that offers BOTH. The opinions are very different about what each camp wants from the game, and I think Zos are doing tremendous job of trying to keep everyone happy, but we all know its impossible.to do that.

ewhite106b16_ESO

It's rediculous that so much of the good gear can only be obtained via PVE and it's bind on pickup on top of that. Monster masks in particular need to be obtainable through PVP. PVE players are never actually "forced" into PVP to get the best gear, at worst they can buy it via guild traders, but since so much of the better gear now is BOP ....PVPers do get forced into boring as hell repetitive dungeon farming.

I don't dislike PVE in general - got no problem doing it while leveling or the ocassional dungeon but having to farm vetran dungeons for the gear I want is aggravating. The more difficult PVE pretty much requires a completely different build/playing style from PVP that IMO is inferior and boring (aka make a one dimensional build, spam the same rotation over and over again and stay out of the fire).

The new IC dungeon sets + monster masks can stay BOP, but they really need to be obtainable via tel var stones, pvp leaderboard rewards or AP. This wasn't much of an issue before IC when only monster masks and a very small amount of gear sets obtained in PVE were BOP, but now that the vast majority of the new gear sets are also bind on pickup and obtained in dungeons things need to change.

Huggalump

This game is marketed as a pvp game. The whole point is alliance vs alliance vs alliance battling for cyrodiil. That's why I got the game. I find PVE extremely boring. It's not what I want to do, but I have to do it. My ideal game would have everything I need acquirable from PvP, but that's not the case.

Therefore, I don't have any sympathy for people complaining that they actually have to possibly encounter some pvp maybe if they don't stealth.

Paradox

Lightninvash wrote: »

we are madder than a Keebler elf being demoted .

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

You have to wonder... Did Matt edit in the "Keebler Elf" part, or was that in there before the mod edit. We may never know.

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO

Asherons_Call wrote: »

This is elder scrolls. PVE by default. You want PVP by default play a mindless shooter

funny how the guy with the name of an awesome MMO with sweet pvp is telling PVPers to go play a shooter ROFLCOPTERS . The Irony is strong in this one XD

TheBull

ahampelb14_ESO wrote: »

Overall this is a PVE game with some PVP elements to it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH no.

I was waiting for this *** comment. This is a PvP game, was always marketed as one, and contains extremely poorly constructed PvE mechanics to satisfy the casual carebear that might not play it otherwise. Busy work, and some of the easiest PvE content ive ever seen in a AAA mmo, just to keep the soft stomached engaged in something to do while the real demographic tears each other apart in Cyro.

The Alliance War is literally the focus of the entire game, from story to setting. Hell even the choice of a faction as the start is a crucial piece leading to PvP, which side you represent.

So dont be giving me that drivel.[/quote]

So then why is a majority of the game PvE content and PvP is limited to only a couple zones?

Before the IC Cyrodiil was 1/3 of the game world. With the IC PvP enabled area is probably 50% now.

mrskinskull

TheBull wrote: »

In order to obtain the best gear in game, dungeons will have to be ran. This is much different than before when crafted gear and AP gear was just as good if not better than dropped gear. As things stand, the TV stone gear obtained through pvp and grinding will not provide the same level of competitiveness.

How do I feel? I'm making the adjustment. I've made a pve build, ran a couple dungeons, and even joined a pve centric guild (Thanks for the inv!).

What bothers me is seeing all these post about PvE only players being forced to pvp. That is simply not the case. They can continue their normal dungeon/trial routine uninhibited unlike the pvp only player who will now be spending a lot of time in dungeons to achieve the same level of competitiveness they once could gain by partaking in pvp, their preferred activity.

How do you feel?

PvP is the best endgame activity. Why not test your builds against the deadliest opponents.
Most humans won't let you farm them in mobs (without a cold harbor )
I would suggest joining an active guild with a healthy membership and good mic use for PvP.

Console may have an easier time because mics lend themselves better to fast paced PvP.

Plus most players you come across are eager to group, especially if you know what you are doing.

One of the best pvpers in my guild is a pve player by choice but gosh darn his healer build held off eight ad vet rank guys from killing our mostly under vet rank trio.

Please don't scare away the pve guys. They are the sleeping lion of your team.

Dru1076

For a thread with "Cut the crap" in the title...it sure is starting to smell bad in here...

HAHAHAHAHA indeed @TheBull. Are you saying that the game being 1/3 PVP and now 50/50 makes it a PVP game? What happens when the next big update rolls out and its all PVE? This is a game for everyone. This game is your game, this game is my game, this game does not belong to PVP angrybears, and it doesn't belong to PVE carebears. It belongs to all of us.

and honestly.... If it was marketed solely as a PVP MMO I would never have given anyone money for ESO. If it was marketed as a solely PVE game, others would have steered clear. But it was marketed both ways.

Tholian1

@TheBull
I was talking about content and not map space. Don't forget that Orsinium is coming in a few months as well which is promised to be even more PvE content.

Master_Kas

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Oh this is going to be good. A counter-argument thread to the numerous PVE'ers who feel they're forced to enter a PVP area for a continued PVE experience. Oh, and I feel as though it's more so PVE'ers who are forced to go into PVP, more so than PVP'ers being forced into PVE for the new content. But regardless, COME GET YA POPCORN!

I buy some! *eats popcorn*

Eshelmen

I don't mind one bit, and quite frankly, grinding out a million plus AP on just four pieces at VR14 is absolutely ridiculous and gets quite repetitive.

Change is good as it keeps things fresh.

I'm in love with PVP, but even so, anything can get boring if you do too much of it.

Bring on the apparent forced PVE! I could care less.