Well that was the worst experience in ESO so far.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Just tried to do the daily gold. Hilariously bad and boring. I've gone from battlefield controller to stamina simulator. Before I could have some damage skills on my bar to squeeze in that little extra DPS for the group, sometimes I could even switch to two handed for a few seconds here and there.
Now?
My bar is taunt and rest defensive/self heal skills using magicka because cant use stamina for anything other than blocking.

I like playing tank because it gets me up front and personal with the bosses and enemies, right in the thick of fighting, and knowing I have the defenses to withstand their attacks. A real badass in heavy armour.
Last boss in the daily my "tanking" consisted of running around in a circle around the center to prevent the daedroth hitting me while range taunting the boss and adds, all while spamming absorb magic so I wouldnt die in 3 seconds since all my defenses are worthless without blocking.
I used to have fun with being that immovable object. I do not enjoy having to run from bosses/adds just because I cant afford to spend stamina blocking their attacks.
I had to use around 50 stamina potions compared to around 5-7 before the patch.
Had a healer with master crafted everything, heals that restored stamina etc all the templar goodies. I used every stamina boosting skill I could find for my DK. Ran out of stamina in seconds trying to block.

I'm sure the super awesome pro epic tank players adapts with no problem and steamrolling through everything. I'm not them, I'm casual. If this is what a gold pledge is like I'm pretty sure there's absolutely no point at all in doing trials because the damage in there is massive even when blocking.

Yes block casting needed to be fixed I'm sure and there were dozens of suggestions on the forums that would have fixed it without messing up PvE tanking for those still learning tanking.
The best one by far: Make it only affect Cyrodiil and Imperial City. There, block casting fixed and PvE tanking is left alone.
Let me repeat: Make no stamina regeneration while blocking only affect Cyrodiil and Imperial City.
Or how about: Have to seperate sets of identical skills. One in pve areas and one in pvp areas, then each set can be balanced for each game mode so PvE wont have to suffer to balance PvP and other way around.

Does anyone at ZOS even play tank? I'd like to see them running Aetherian Archives as a tank, specifically the last boss and the axes without being able to block most of the time.

Anyway, probably shelving my tank and this game until this thing changes or they improve tanking to actually make it fun because as it is now its not fun or tactical. Those of you who are having fun, good for you and I'm happy for you, keep having fun.

Iggybot

What I'd like to see is making the heavy armor passive that returns stam / magicka be made to be useful for a tank so that you basically could block cast if getting hit enough. Would solve block casting, pve tanking, and make heavy armor far more useful.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Give yourself a month to increase your skill and learn how to tank with these new mechanics before complaining. Did you ever think about having two people tank the adds? How about getting the boss to really low HP, and then having the DPS go full heals, and then letting the adds spawn?

slumber_sandb16_ESO

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Give yourself a month to increase your skill and learn how to tank with these new mechanics before complaining. Did you ever think about having two people tank the adds? How about getting the boss to really low HP, and then having the DPS go full heals, and then letting the adds spawn?

There's nothing wrong with my skill. I've tanked everything except sanctum without any issues at all. The problem is all my focus on defense and I cant stand toe to toe with more than 2 enemies at once because I can't block and without blocking my +26k armour and spell resist seemingly count for very little since one hit and I lose 40% of my health.

Two people tank the adds then not enough DPS to kill them fast enough, tried that. Getting the boss to really low hp? Tried that but since I have to tank the boss and all the adds while running around and DPS have to follow to kill adds while destroying healing orbs at the same time. I cant stand still because then all the daedroth hit me which I cant block because then I lose stamina so I cant use absorb magic so the boss kills me.
I know the tactics, I know how to tank. The problem is not being able to tank because I cant block. This run was with a fantastic healer so imagine it with a new ish tank and an average healer.

Robbmrp

The stamina changes will make the Champion Point Block Expertise(The Steed) extremely important. Get this as high as you can for Tanks. Get that block reduction cost down, down, down. Any item sets with reduced block will be a lot better than some others now.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Robbmrp wrote: »

The stamina changes will make the Champion Point Block Expertise(The Steed) extremely important. Get this as high as you can for Tanks. Get that block reduction cost down, down, down. Any item sets with reduced block will be a lot better than some others now.

I've already spent all my champion points on reduce block cost, reduce stamina costs, increased stamina regen. All accessories have reduced block cost etc.

Hope499

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

Just tried to do the daily gold. Hilariously bad and boring. I've gone from battlefield controller to stamina simulator. Before I could have some damage skills on my bar to squeeze in that little extra DPS for the group, sometimes I could even switch to two handed for a few seconds here and there.
.

Sigh...that is my EXACT play-style...

I knew this completely UNNEEDED stamina nerf was a TERRIBLE idea....

And all at once??

No WW stam, no stam while blocking, reduced armor stats/nerf

Wow....so pissed...maybe I should just reset all my skills for a DK magic DPS....great.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I haven't tanked anything yet, but I did heal CoH Gold Key yesterday. All I could hear on TS was, "I NEED SHARDS!!!!" Glad I was on my Templar...

Non-Templar healers might be getting hit as hard as tanks. I am not totally sold that this ruins tanking, but it definitely changes the game a lot. It seems that a reasonable place to start would have been to reduce stam regen by 50% to see how it goes, but here we are.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I haven't tanked anything yet, but I did heal CoH Gold Key yesterday. All I could hear on TS was, "I NEED SHARDS!!!!" Glad I was on my Templar...

Non-Templar healers might be getting hit as hard as tanks. I am not totally sold that this ruins tanking, but it definitely changes the game a lot. It seems that a reasonable place to start would have been to reduce stam regen by 50% to see how it goes, but here we are.

Yep, if it wasnt for an extremely talented templar healer there is no way I would have been able to perform as well as I did, it would have been a complete failure most likely.

Play as we want. As long as we bring a DK tank and a Templar healer.

Sithisvoid

RIP stamina RIP crafted sets RIP fun

Teridaxus

We warned you guys on pts, it's manageable, but not fun anymore.
Can't even look at the enemy anymore, eyes glued on the green bar.

Sensesfail13

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

Just tried to do the daily gold. Hilariously bad and boring. I've gone from battlefield controller to stamina simulator. Before I could have some damage skills on my bar to squeeze in that little extra DPS for the group, sometimes I could even switch to two handed for a few seconds here and there.
Now?
My bar is taunt and rest defensive/self heal skills using magicka because cant use stamina for anything other than blocking.

I like playing tank because it gets me up front and personal with the bosses and enemies, right in the thick of fighting, and knowing I have the defenses to withstand their attacks. A real badass in heavy armour.
Last boss in the daily my "tanking" consisted of running around in a circle around the center to prevent the daedroth hitting me while range taunting the boss and adds, all while spamming absorb magic so I wouldnt die in 3 seconds since all my defenses are worthless without blocking.
I used to have fun with being that immovable object. I do not enjoy having to run from bosses/adds just because I cant afford to spend stamina blocking their attacks.
I had to use around 50 stamina potions compared to around 5-7 before the patch.
Had a healer with master crafted everything, heals that restored stamina etc all the templar goodies. I used every stamina boosting skill I could find for my DK. Ran out of stamina in seconds trying to block.

I'm sure the super awesome pro epic tank players adapts with no problem and steamrolling through everything. I'm not them, I'm casual. If this is what a gold pledge is like I'm pretty sure there's absolutely no point at all in doing trials because the damage in there is massive even when blocking.

Yes block casting needed to be fixed I'm sure and there were dozens of suggestions on the forums that would have fixed it without messing up PvE tanking for those still learning tanking.
The best one by far: Make it only affect Cyrodiil and Imperial City. There, block casting fixed and PvE tanking is left alone.
Let me repeat: Make no stamina regeneration while blocking only affect Cyrodiil and Imperial City.
Or how about: Have to seperate sets of identical skills. One in pve areas and one in pvp areas, then each set can be balanced for each game mode so PvE wont have to suffer to balance PvP and other way around.

Does anyone at ZOS even play tank? I'd like to see them running Aetherian Archives as a tank, specifically the last boss and the axes without being able to block most of the time.

Anyway, probably shelving my tank and this game until this thing changes or they improve tanking to actually make it fun because as it is now its not fun or tactical. Those of you who are having fun, good for you and I'm happy for you, keep having fun.

I can completely agree with most of this, I dont agree with the only in cyrodiil/imperial city, it just shouldnt have been implemented in the first place. You have the occasional prick saying they dont have a problem with this patch. And I have a strong feeling they are the few *** actually profiting from the changes.
As it is, I can sympathize with everything you have said, I went from not only being a tank but having major utility as a supportive player with cc's snares roots chaining in adds to being a walking pinata... and not a very good one at that. I can hold the aggro... it takes a lot of potions and shards and templar with master resto... but its doable...
But since when did anybody ever *** want "doable" when they play a game you took one of the most fun and dynamic playstyles and kicked it in the *** balls, for no reason whatsoever. Block casting wasnt a problem it was a viable method of defense for those with lower defense, and blocking as a tank... what the hell else are you supposed to do you HAVE to sacrifice heavy damage for defense as a tank but there were methods of optimizing your dps and defense and sacrificing other utilities in game. If people want to go for that playstyle why the hell should they not be able to??? Because your *** was killed by them, boo hoo, its PVP you die every so often. As it is, 2 days into the patch I cant take on 1-2 players let alone defend a gd keep anymore. And the numbers just arent out because this patch blows so badly, Ive already had (as predicted) large numbers of players just throw in the towel... and I can honestly say Im not too far behind them. Zenimax took my favorite playstyle on my favorite character and turned it into a farce. A totally viable build 2 days ago isnt worth the gold I could sell my armor for, to a merchant, any longer.

This is basically, Imperial city in a nutshell for anybody that isnt a magicka nightblade. http://i.imgur.com/9BwkgQD.gif

PS. I had no problem tanking any content before the patch, VDSA, SO, AA, HRC. Now im worthless and so are tanks.

tpanisiakb16_ESO

OP, I tried my hardest to make people realize with my own experience on the PTS. They wanted PvE tanks to hit more than block and taunt, but due to these changes that's the only thing I'm able to do. No longer am I staring at my screen and watching the fight unfold, now I'm watching a green bar on the corner right of my screen, waiting for my ultimate to be ready or my potions to come off cool down.

Tanking (for me), went from fun and interactive to the very thing Eric Wrobel wanted to get away from; I am now reduced to just blocking and taunting.

GG.

Troneon

RIP Tanks in eso...

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

I can completely agree with most of this, I dont agree with the only in cyrodiil/imperial city, it just shouldnt have been implemented in the first place. You have the occasional prick saying they dont have a problem with this patch. And I have a strong feeling they are the few *** actually profiting from the changes.
As it is, I can sympathize with everything you have said, I went from not only being a tank but having major utility as a supportive player with cc's snares roots chaining in adds to being a walking pinata... and not a very good one at that. I can hold the aggro... it takes a lot of potions and shards and templar with master resto... but its doable...
But since when did anybody ever *** want "doable" when they play a game you took one of the most fun and dynamic playstyles and kicked it in the *** balls, for no reason whatsoever. Block casting wasnt a problem it was a viable method of defense for those with lower defense, and blocking as a tank... what the hell else are you supposed to do you HAVE to sacrifice heavy damage for defense as a tank but there were methods of optimizing your dps and defense and sacrificing other utilities in game. If people want to go for that playstyle why the hell should they not be able to??? Because your *** was killed by them, boo hoo, its PVP you die every so often. As it is, 2 days into the patch I cant take on 1-2 players let alone defend a gd keep anymore. And the numbers just arent out because this patch blows so badly, Ive already had (as predicted) large numbers of players just throw in the towel... and I can honestly say Im not too far behind them. Zenimax took my favorite playstyle on my favorite character and turned it into a farce. A totally viable build 2 days ago isnt worth the gold I could sell my armor for, to a merchant, any longer.

This is basically, Imperial city in a nutshell for anybody that isnt a magicka nightblade. http://i.imgur.com/9BwkgQD.gif

PS. I had no problem tanking any content before the patch, VDSA, SO, AA, HRC. Now im worthless and so are tanks.

Exactly. No one wants to do doable. Spent 2 months gearing up, planning sets, getting the right items to become an armoured juggernaut. I dont want doable, I want to play as I want to play, as advertised. An armoured juggernaut that can take any beating from any creature in Tamriel.

Valn

Just made a poll on this, 100% so far on YES in that stamina tanking is ruined. Also I had exactly the same experience as you with those daedroths. I feel so useless now as a tank. Before I was pretty much an armored juggernaut, sacrificing my damage for survivability, and now it seems I can't survive or do damage.

Rune_Relic

Troneon wrote: »

RIP Tanks in eso...

Amen.

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Valn wrote: »

Just made a poll on this, 100% so far on YES in that stamina tanking is ruined. Also I had exactly the same experience as you with those daedroths. I feel so useless now as a tank. Before I was pretty much an armored juggernaut, sacrificing my damage for survivability, and now it seems I can't survive or do damage.

Yeah I agree. Thats why most people choose to play tanks. We want to be that armoured juggernaut, we dont care about damage, we want to get into the thickest fighting and stay there not run around like a headless chicken trying not to get hit.

Eas007

Iggybot wrote: »

What I'd like to see is making the heavy armor passive that returns stam / magicka be made to be useful for a tank so that you basically could block cast if getting hit enough. Would solve block casting, pve tanking, and make heavy armor far more useful.

+1

Jennifur_Vultee

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Just made a poll on this, 100% so far on YES in that stamina tanking is ruined. Also I had exactly the same experience as you with those daedroths. I feel so useless now as a tank. Before I was pretty much an armored juggernaut, sacrificing my damage for survivability, and now it seems I can't survive or do damage.

Yeah I agree. Thats why most people choose to play tanks. We want to be that armoured juggernaut, we dont care about damage, we want to get into the thickest fighting and stay there not run around like a headless chicken trying not to get hit.

After my experience this is how tanking now feels to me.

Sallington

A tank from my guild I ran the first Gold Pledge of the patch with said it's the most fun he's had tanking thus far. Maybe people are just starting to realize how bad healers can be if they don't know what they're doing.

It looks like Gold Pledges are an accomplishment now, instead of a daily chore.

Waffennacht

If you have to have a healer to make a tank viable... its not much of a tank

Sallington

Waffennacht wrote: »

If you have to have a healer to make a tank viable... its not much of a tank

What?


The role of a tank is to keep mobs off the rest of the group and to soak the damage. The healer's job is to keep the tank alive. The DPS's job is to kill the boss and stay out of red.

Of course things change depending on mechanics, but that's MMO dungeons in a nutshell. Are you saying tanks shouldn't need a healer?

Waffennacht

Not to be viable. I can see a struggle without a healer but it shouldn't be mandatory.

I speak from my experiences soloing most dungeons as my sorc tank

Sensesfail13

Sallington wrote: »

A tank from my guild I ran the first Gold Pledge of the patch with said it's the most fun he's had tanking thus far. Maybe people are just starting to realize how bad healers can be if they don't know what they're doing.

It looks like Gold Pledges are an accomplishment now, instead of a daily chore.

I had a great healer and it was the least fun Ive had since tanking in everquest for 15 years in a top raiding guild. Another *** tank pinata game, useless for anything but getting smashed and I cant even defend because innate defense is horrible without block and we can no longer block no matter what the try hards say.

In addition to this, Tanks in this game were also always for utility.
Dk- Talon, Chain, caltrop, positioning, etc.
Nb- Debuff, dps, avoidance, and group buffs
Templar- Tank and side heals etc
Sorc- Meh... tank and dmg? Not really familiar with how sorc tanks rolled but Im sure they helped out in other ways than just standing and absorbing damage.

It takes away from the dynamics of the fight and the enjoyment for the players, the fights themselves are harder which is what, Im assuming, made the dungeons more fun. Which in and of itself is fine, I actually had a lot of fun trying the Imperial City sewers. However, It would have been more fun with my support tank build from 2 days ago rather than this *** tank worry about 2 mobs and *hopefully* keeping resources up... thats not fun its *** stressful. We can have fun doing the dungeons without turning the tank class into a bitchy run in circles yelling at the boss antic.

Crunch

People used to complain that tanking was boring before the update too.

"Nothing but standing in place and holding block"

mrvbalc

in addition to all these BS nerfs now for tanks its hard to get loots also, it seems u have to do atleast 10% of boss hp damage to get stones and loot i IC mobs. Lets see, Little Molagbal boss have 2.6 million hp, then tanks should do atleast 260k damage to get loot. Now tell me how is it possible to dps a boss for 260k while all you are doin is watching stam bar and boss debuff timer for agro

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2206071#Comment_2206071

bottom point: Devs indirectly saying that they dont care about pve tanking or tanking in general, Only they want to take care of those pvp crybabies.

mrvbalc

I tanked all PVE content (hard mode trials too) before patch.Tanking is not just taking agro

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

A tank from my guild I ran the first Gold Pledge of the patch with said it's the most fun he's had tanking thus far. Maybe people are just starting to realize how bad healers can be if they don't know what they're doing.

It looks like Gold Pledges are an accomplishment now, instead of a daily chore.

I had a great healer and it was the least fun Ive had since tanking in everquest for 15 years in a top raiding guild. Another *** tank pinata game, useless for anything but getting smashed and I cant even defend because innate defense is horrible without block and we can no longer block no matter what the try hards say.

In addition to this, Tanks in this game were also always for utility.
Dk- Talon, Chain, caltrop, positioning, etc.
Nb- Debuff, dps, avoidance, and group buffs
Templar- Tank and side heals etc
Sorc- Meh... tank and dmg? Not really familiar with how sorc tanks rolled but Im sure they helped out in other ways than just standing and absorbing damage.

It takes away from the dynamics of the fight and the enjoyment for the players, the fights themselves are harder which is what, Im assuming, made the dungeons more fun. Which in and of itself is fine, I actually had a lot of fun trying the Imperial City sewers. However, It would have been more fun with my support tank build from 2 days ago rather than this *** tank worry about 2 mobs and *hopefully* keeping resources up... thats not fun its *** stressful. We can have fun doing the dungeons without turning the tank class into a bitchy run in circles yelling at the boss antic.

Well said

Sallington wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

If you have to have a healer to make a tank viable... its not much of a tank

What?


The role of a tank is to keep mobs off the rest of the group and to soak the damage. The healer's job is to keep the tank alive. The DPS's job is to kill the boss and stay out of red.

Of course things change depending on mechanics, but that's MMO dungeons in a nutshell. Are you saying tanks shouldn't need a healer?

If you think tanking is only taking agro from mobs then you doing tanking wrong this whole time. In most fights tanks are the one who direct which way that fights should go forward (HRC hard mode). And take certain mobs away from grp and still keep agro from boss, now the only you can do with a tank is barely keep agro from boss and keep yourself alive cause you always have to look at your stam bar

PS: i have completed most of the vet dungeons in highest scale in 2 man grp in vet mode, so dont come and say L2P

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Crunch wrote: »

People used to complain that tanking was boring before the update too.

"Nothing but standing in place and holding block"

None of them were forced to stand there and hold block, they had the option to release block and do a different build for more DPS while tanking or do healing while tanking etc. There was the option to block or the option to do whatever else you wanted.
Now the option is limited to as much stamina regeneration as possible and to run around to avoid getting hit when there are more than 2 enemies because cant waste stamina on blocking as a tank anymore.

Inactive Account

When ESO, not ESOTU, went live, one of the most common points people were trying to make , to everyone was.....

" You must learn to block. If you don't block, You die....!!! "

It took a year and a half, but people learned to block. Then in the span of one " Patch ". It has changed a full 180degrees.

" OMG ! don't block. If you block you run out of Stamina and you die...! ".


Now that's what I call a sticky situation.

Darlgon

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

Crunch wrote: »

People used to complain that tanking was boring before the update too.

"Nothing but standing in place and holding block"

None of them were forced to stand there and hold block, they had the option to release block and do a different build for more DPS while tanking or do healing while tanking etc. There was the option to block or the option to do whatever else you wanted.
Now the option is limited to as much stamina regeneration as possible and to run around to avoid getting hit when there are more than 2 enemies because cant waste stamina on blocking as a tank anymore.

He is quoting Eric Wrobel.

ZOS_Eric Wrobel wrote: »

Its definitely going to take people a little bit of time, to get used to the tanking, because its not "Oh, I hold right-click the whole time and I'm tanking and every now and then I taunt."

More on that interview here...since it bears on this discussion..(long read in PTS forums)

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208496/come-one-come-all-to-hear-a-lecture-on-blocking-stamina-regen-by-serjo-darlgon-telvanni-tweaked/p1