Blackwater Blade - Are We Going To Suffer The Increased Damage Reduction?

Paradox

Damage in Blackwater Blade is already significantly limited by much more than simply the Battle Spirit debuff to damage. Battle level, while absolutely amazing, lowers damage output significantly, compared to vet. While I understand a need for some increase in damage reduction in vet (maybe not 50%), I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT understand or agree with an increase to the BwB damage reduction.

We already have issues with players with massive pools of CP being nearly invincible with a tank build, but I won't go into that, as the forums seem to enjoy this BS system that discourages new players.

Basically, will we be seeing an unnecessary increase in damage reduction in Blackwater Blade, a change which is yet another change to fix a veteran PvP problem that will take affect in Nonvet for absolutely no discernable reason... To only be changed back in about two weeks after we complain about not being able to kill anyone... Because nobody at ZoS thought to test nonvet, which is the first experience that new players will have with PvP...

Tl;Dr - Angrily asking if Nonvet will see the damage reduction increase.

Asmael

I was wondering the same yesterday, you beat me by 1 day on posting tho.

The TTK on BwB is currently (almost?) perfect. An increased damage reduction would be... absolutely... hurr, if we got posts where people find vet fights "boring", I can't even imagine how it would be in BwB.

NGP

I would like to live a little longer. I could learn nothing by being killed in 5 sec.

JDar

BwB is stupid. I can't kill anyone and nobody can kill me. There's got to be a middle ground.

This is one of those things where the "straightfoward" decision to cut damage in Cyrodiil via Battle Spirit is causing more problems than if ZoS had made several carefully chosen, incremental measured changes to mechanics and abilities to address the problem of some abilities dealing way too much damage by spell damage and weapon damage builds (which almost everybody in Vet PvP is), mostly weapon abilities.

Are there some kind of technical obstacles that prevented them from doing it the way I suggest?

JamilaRaj

JDar wrote: »

BwB is stupid. I can't kill anyone and nobody can kill me. There's got to be a middle ground.

This is one of those things where the "straightfoward" decision to cut damage in Cyrodiil via Battle Spirit is causing more problems than if ZoS had made several carefully chosen, incremental measured changes to mechanics and abilities to address the problem of some abilities dealing way too much damage by spell damage and weapon damage builds (which almost everybody in Vet PvP is), mostly weapon abilities.

Are there some kind of technical obstacles that prevented them from doing it the way I suggest?

Sure, sloppy programming and declining ability to design. Basically the same obstacles that made us move over to the noob campaign in the first place, which...was...more fun accidentally.

mtwiggz

The reduced damage in nonvet PvP is alreay plenty enough. I would agree with the OP saying that there does not need to be an added damage reduction in nonvet.

I would also agree with JDar that reducing damage as a whole in vet PvP is absolute nonsense. It screams lazy development. There are a few choice skills that are problematic, not the entire system. If the developers actually played the game they would realize in no time which skills those are and how to adjust them.

IMO BwB should remain in its current state and vetPvP should be given a closer look. TTK in 1.7 via test server is incredibly too high. It reminds me exactly of what BwB is currently. Extremely long fights in which numbers means more than actual player skill. This is not the PvP I signed up for.

zornyan

I don't see an issue? I play a stam Nb ganker, my average ttk in bwb is about 3-4 seconds. I use grim focus, piercing target, open with snipe/venom arrow and a heavy, then use ambush /surprise attack finishing with an ultimate.

If I gank someone on a horse they are usually dead before they can stand up. An extra 20% mitigation isn't going to slow me down by more than a second.

The longest fights I've had are shield spammers, but since Shields will be critable that means they'll go down quicker, and people spamming block will too.

It's using buffs to your advantage, Ive got a 60% crit rate with nearly 2400 weapon damage in bwb, along side 50% odd armor penetration.

leepalmer95

zornyan wrote: »

I don't see an issue? I play a stam Nb ganker, my average ttk in bwb is about 3-4 seconds. I use grim focus, piercing target, open with snipe/venom arrow and a heavy, then use ambush /surprise attack finishing with an ultimate.

If I gank someone on a horse they are usually dead before they can stand up. An extra 20% mitigation isn't going to slow me down by more than a second.

The longest fights I've had are shield spammers, but since Shields will be critable that means they'll go down quicker, and people spamming block will too.

It's using buffs to your advantage, Ive got a 60% crit rate with nearly 2400 weapon damage in bwb, along side 50% odd armor penetration.

That explains everything.

DEATHquidox

Paradox wrote: »

Damage in Blackwater Blade is already significantly limited by much more than simply the Battle Spirit debuff to damage. Battle level, while absolutely amazing, lowers damage output significantly, compared to vet. While I understand a need for some increase in damage reduction in vet (maybe not 50%), I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT understand or agree with an increase to the BwB damage reduction.

We already have issues with players with massive pools of CP being nearly invincible with a tank build, but I won't go into that, as the forums seem to enjoy this BS system that discourages new players.

Basically, will we be seeing an unnecessary increase in damage reduction in Blackwater Blade, a change which is yet another change to fix a veteran PvP problem that will take affect in Nonvet for absolutely no discernable reason... To only be changed back in about two weeks after we complain about not being able to kill anyone... Because nobody at ZoS thought to test nonvet, which is the first experience that new players will have with PvP...

Tl;Dr - Angrily asking if Nonvet will see the damage reduction increase.

While this makes no sense please listen.

They have stated that everyone will hit as hard as a vet 14 once the new update comes out. That includes all vets that arnt vet 14+ that also includes anyone lvl 50 and below that being said if your attacks are hitting for 9k+ then they need that 30% less damage (cyrodiil before the update battle levels you to whwre you take 20% less damage already) so it will be 20% already + 30% = 50% thats what they ment when they said that. Damage shields are at a 15% reduction right now they will also be going to 50% which means thats a 35% decrease in shields.

Kammakazi

zornyan wrote: »

I don't see an issue? I play a stam Nb ganker, my average ttk in bwb is about 3-4 seconds. I use grim focus, piercing target, open with snipe/venom arrow and a heavy, then use ambush /surprise attack finishing with an ultimate.

If I gank someone on a horse they are usually dead before they can stand up. An extra 20% mitigation isn't going to slow me down by more than a second.

The longest fights I've had are shield spammers, but since Shields will be critable that means they'll go down quicker, and people spamming block will too.

It's using buffs to your advantage, Ive got a 60% crit rate with nearly 2400 weapon damage in bwb, along side 50% odd armor penetration.

Also what level are you? CP? Crafted Sets?

Most players in BWB aren't smurfs and just play to play...

DEATHquidox

Paradox wrote: »

Damage in Blackwater Blade is already significantly limited by much more than simply the Battle Spirit debuff to damage. Battle level, while absolutely amazing, lowers damage output significantly, compared to vet. While I understand a need for some increase in damage reduction in vet (maybe not 50%), I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT understand or agree with an increase to the BwB damage reduction.

We already have issues with players with massive pools of CP being nearly invincible with a tank build, but I won't go into that, as the forums seem to enjoy this BS system that discourages new players.

Basically, will we be seeing an unnecessary increase in damage reduction in Blackwater Blade, a change which is yet another change to fix a veteran PvP problem that will take affect in Nonvet for absolutely no discernable reason... To only be changed back in about two weeks after we complain about not being able to kill anyone... Because nobody at ZoS thought to test nonvet, which is the first experience that new players will have with PvP...

Tl;Dr - Angrily asking if Nonvet will see the damage reduction increase.

I hope this helped

zornyan

Kammakazi wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

I don't see an issue? I play a stam Nb ganker, my average ttk in bwb is about 3-4 seconds. I use grim focus, piercing target, open with snipe/venom arrow and a heavy, then use ambush /surprise attack finishing with an ultimate.

If I gank someone on a horse they are usually dead before they can stand up. An extra 20% mitigation isn't going to slow me down by more than a second.

The longest fights I've had are shield spammers, but since Shields will be critable that means they'll go down quicker, and people spamming block will too.

It's using buffs to your advantage, Ive got a 60% crit rate with nearly 2400 weapon damage in bwb, along side 50% odd armor penetration.

Also what level are you? CP? Crafted Sets?

Most players in BWB aren't smurfs and just play to play...

41, 31 CP that I haven't really bothered with, just got a hundings set to increase my stats some more, the stats above are just passives, with certain skill buffs (like grim focus, flawless dawnbraker etc) and weapons with piercing.

Flying dagger is actually going to get a 20% major brutality buff like rally in 1.7 so I'll get another 20% from that, with my hundings aswell I should be hitting some silly numbers in bwb

Asmael

zornyan wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

I don't see an issue? I play a stam Nb ganker, my average ttk in bwb is about 3-4 seconds. I use grim focus, piercing target, open with snipe/venom arrow and a heavy, then use ambush /surprise attack finishing with an ultimate.

If I gank someone on a horse they are usually dead before they can stand up. An extra 20% mitigation isn't going to slow me down by more than a second.

The longest fights I've had are shield spammers, but since Shields will be critable that means they'll go down quicker, and people spamming block will too.

It's using buffs to your advantage, Ive got a 60% crit rate with nearly 2400 weapon damage in bwb, along side 50% odd armor penetration.

Also what level are you? CP? Crafted Sets?

Most players in BWB aren't smurfs and just play to play...

41, 31 CP that I haven't really bothered with, just got a hundings set to increase my stats some more, the stats above are just passives, with certain skill buffs (like grim focus, flawless dawnbraker etc) and weapons with piercing.

Flying dagger is actually going to get a 20% major brutality buff like rally in 1.7 so I'll get another 20% from that, with my hundings aswell I should be hitting some silly numbers in bwb

That's legit.

On a side note, I doubt it'll still possible to kill someone the way you did if the dmg reduction hits BwB, apparently penetration from weapons was miscalculated and gave much more damage than intended. That and other things...

From personal experience... Duels are 80% of the time a draw, since no one gets to burst down their opponent fast enough. And yeah, those usually last a good 10 minutes before someone stops moving only spamming a def skill saying "OK I'm bored".

zornyan

I don't really think bwb is like that, pools are pretty damm small, with poor regen, not to mention blocking won't regen stam and bolt escape is getting a heavy nerf.

With all these in places fights should be a tad quicker if anything.

Literially a few more percentage of damage mitigation is no different that if I cast rally or not.

QuebraRegra

Kammakazi wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

I don't see an issue? I play a stam Nb ganker, my average ttk in bwb is about 3-4 seconds. I use grim focus, piercing target, open with snipe/venom arrow and a heavy, then use ambush /surprise attack finishing with an ultimate.

If I gank someone on a horse they are usually dead before they can stand up. An extra 20% mitigation isn't going to slow me down by more than a second.

The longest fights I've had are shield spammers, but since Shields will be critable that means they'll go down quicker, and people spamming block will too.

It's using buffs to your advantage, Ive got a 60% crit rate with nearly 2400 weapon damage in bwb, along side 50% odd armor penetration.

Also what level are you? CP? Crafted Sets?

Most players in BWB aren't smurfs and just play to play...

I might be a Smurf... Agreed I most definitely stay in BWB just to play for enjoyment. I'd like to see the other changes minus the dmg debuff.

Asmael

zornyan wrote: »

I don't really think bwb is like that, (1) pools are pretty damm small, (2) with poor regen, not to mention blocking won't regen stam and (3) bolt escape is getting a heavy nerf.

With all these in places fights should be a tad quicker if anything.

(4) Literally a few more percentage of damage mitigation is no different that if I cast rally or not.

(1) Definitely not the case for the HP pool, which is usually around 30K. A lot of people in vet campaigns have around 20-22k, and yet their damage is much higher...

(2) I wouldn't define 1500 stam/mag regen as "poor" in non-vet. Get a resource regen mundus, a stam/magicka drink and you're good to go.

(3) That's for Sorcs only, we'll see how this goes. Apparently sorcs can still bolt 6 or 7 times in a row, which is more than necessary if you also use Boundless Storm inbetween 2 of those.

(4) Going from 15% to 50% mitigation isn't just "a few". Small scale PvP (1vX, 2vX, 3vX) have fights lasting sometimes a minute or two, depending on how good the individuals are at managing their resources. With a fairly decent build and resources management, you can even last several minutes in a 1v5.

Making everyone unkillable is... Hurr. just boring.

josh.lackey_ESO

zornyan wrote: »

I don't see an issue? I play a stam Nb ganker, my average ttk in bwb is about 3-4 seconds. I use grim focus, piercing target, open with snipe/venom arrow and a heavy, then use ambush /surprise attack finishing with an ultimate.

If I gank someone on a horse they are usually dead before they can stand up. An extra 20% mitigation isn't going to slow me down by more than a second.

The longest fights I've had are shield spammers, but since Shields will be critable that means they'll go down quicker, and people spamming block will too.

It's using buffs to your advantage, Ive got a 60% crit rate with nearly 2400 weapon damage in bwb, along side 50% odd armor penetration.

Oh yeah, you're cool dude.

FearlessOne_2014

zornyan wrote: »

I don't really think bwb is like that, pools are pretty damm small, with poor regen, not to mention blocking won't regen stam and bolt escape is getting a heavy nerf.

With all these in places fights should be a tad quicker if anything.

Literially a few more percentage of damage mitigation is no different that if I cast rally or not.

True if you are talking about the players who don't use cheats/exploits/broken game machinics or what ever you want to call it.

Those that do however like the ones running around now with 7 mundus stones buffs actives at the same time on one toon and with over 400 CPs to boot, those players can will just sit there and tank 12 - 15 players at level or higher in non vet. Yes there is a add-on that allows you to see what buffs your enemies are running.

zornyan

Mundus stone glitches was only 4 not 7 (this has been confirmed as a glitch in the ui) and that's been fixed anyway.

Not really many cheaters on ps4, hell barely anyone can animation cancel, probably due to consoles having slower processing speeds etc.

400cps, you'll get what 20% more damage and 20% more mitigation, that's not going to save you against 15 players. As a level 30 imperial templar, I can take 7-8 people at a time, but I won't be dealing any real damage at that point as I'll be using my pools to block and heal.

20% of anything isn't going to make me God mode. Tanks can tank lots of people, but glass cannons can't, glass cannons can murder lots of people, but tanks can't, hybrids can create extremely powerful and we'll balanced groups, the others can't etc

There's always a minus to each plus.

Josh I didn't say I was cool, my Nb is an assassin with his bars full of offensive buffs/attacks. My job is to hit hard from stealth, he does that very well. But unlike my tank, I can't rush into the middle of a battle and expect to live, my point was even in bwb you can get decent numbers, enough to end someone's life pretty quick.

Many don't seem to think it's a l2p issue, earlier on my templar I was sitting next to a keep swapping skills, a sorc level 40ish tried to gank me, I was a sitting target for about 10 seconds and he only got half my health pool down.

I then healed, ran back to the guards and a buddy came out of the keep, we jumped on him and killed him pretty quick, considering he was just spamming Shields.

I then received hate mail, saying how I sucked and he would have won, that he wins countless 1vx etc etc he couldn't admit he just didn't know how to burst damage, or what to do against someone blocking. When I held block up he just kept spamming offensive skills, rather than any form of cc.

Asamel we currently have 30% damage mitigation from battle spirit, so it's only 20% more than now. Not 35%

Paradox

Well, you're all wrong. It's totally ***.

You just can't kill anyone. /answered

JamilaRaj

Well, looks like damage from siege weapons has been nerfed too, shooting people with fire ballista is like throwing pillows at them.