Should Crown Store Motifs offer a "convert to __ style" option?

Recremen

Motivation: I frequently see posts asking for more fine-tuned customization regarding the visuals on their gear. This is especially brought up in the context of dropped set items, whose visuals can't be controlled in any capacity. Present systems do not adequately accommodate the desires of these players.

Previous Suggestions: add vanity slots, implement "transmog" system, etc.

Problems With These Systems: the Crown Store is where convenience and customization options will be found, and these proposed systems do not incorporate the Crown Store. Therefore, they are not up for consideration.

Elegant Solution: let the motifs in the Crown Store also unlock a "Convert to _____ style" option for all gear on that character (account?) in a similar manner to the "Convert to Imperial style" option. Specifically, it should bind the gear to the player, and it should be useable on ALL gear types, from set items to crafted items.

Benefits:

• Smooth integration with the Crown Store motif system, no need for a new tab on the character menu or other extraneous window
• Keeps customization in the Crown Store. Heck, it's even convenient.
• Expands with each new motif that gets put out
  • Bonus: motivation for ZOS to put out even more rare looks as crafting motifs, such as Ebon Armor or Lord's Mail
• Converted gear is dye-able, unlike costumes

Drawbacks:

• Makes motifs found in-game intrinsically less valuable than other options
• Those who've already acquired motifs would need to double-dip to get such functionality
• Some costume packs would be entirely valueless by comparison
  • Mitigating Factor: motifs sales would easily increase far beyond what those costume packs are worth to begin with, since player options under this system would increase by several orders of magnitude compared to the (relatively simplistic) costuming system
  • Mitigating Factor: all unique costumes, such as the wedding dress, jester costume, and Draugr polymorph would maintain their present value as they cannot be duplicated with in-game armor

If such a system were to be used, I am sure folks would also want to maintain the current advantage that costumes have when it comes to letting them hide their armor type. As such, you should probably also be able to convert to the visual appearance of other armor types while maintaining the actual underlying armor type. In this way, your heavy Ravager butthuggers could look like that Daedric skirt everybody loves, but still actually be heavy armor.

Thoughts/Endorsements/Criticisms/Bagels?

Alucardo

I often thought converting would be cool, but it shouldn't be a crown store option, it should be available at crafting stations in a "Conversion" section once you have the following:

- The target style learnt from the appropriate motif
- The style gem for what you want to convert the item to
- At least 1 trait researched for that item

Edit: grammar is not my friend today

Gelston

I wouldn't mind if they did it for all motifs, crown bought or not. Perhaps setting up a system that requires you to expend a few mats to make the conversion, such as the style stone and a few extra crafting mats based on the level of the item. I know a lot of people may be against that, since you don't currently have to do it for converting to Imperial, but it is a thought.

olsborg

Yes pls. I support it.

Psychobunni

Yes-Convert
No-Crown Store Only

#DontFeedTheBeast

Enodoc

I could see both of those working together. Have a "convert to..." option if you've bought the Crown Store motif, which binds the item to the player, or have a "Conversion" option if you've read the motif book and have the appropriate materials, which would not produce a bound item. That way, the Crown Store immediate conversion is only cosmetic, while the in-game crafted conversion could be used in the economy.

AlnilamE

No. It would go against the "everything in the crown store can also be acquired in game" policy.

Tallowby

Also no ^^^

21jws10

Before I got the game, I thought every race could do this to their own style, my brother was much disappointed (he didn't get imperial edition unlike me)

willymchilybily

Id do it via crown store to support the game and continued development of the game. but i wouldn't tie it to purchasing the style from the crown store. It would be unfair to all those long committed players that found all their motif books and collected or traded them. I'd simply do it via a stack of X conversion kits. but the mechanic for such a thing would have to be implimented, so not as nice a solution as yours in many ways

I always thought some of the crown store purchases were overpriced if they didn't apply to all characters, horse lessons etc. As far as i know unlocking a style via crown store is character specific?

Rev Rielle

Yes, this would be a good addition to the game.

Players that are happy with how their character looks (and we look at them quite a bit) are more likely to play more. Testament to this is almost universal love for the dye system that was put in-game.

Personally I think once we know a motif style in-game we should be able to convert any piece of armour/equipment to that style. However, that would unbalance things in relation to the new mechanics that we currently have, and that are in the future being put, in place for new styles like the Dwemer, Glass, Yokudan etc etc.

So perhaps most simply, and fairly, it could be adapted to work so you could convert any piece of equipment to another motif style, as long as you had:

a) Learnt the motif style already,
b) Have the materials that would be required to craft that piece of equipment in that motif style.

For example; if I wanted to convert any veteran 14 robe to a daedric style, my character would have to have in their possession (or in the bank) 20 pieces of Void Cloth and 1 Daedra Heart, as well as having read the Daedric Motif book.

TheShadowScout

Yes to the general notion, no to the "crown store only" part.

I would like to see something along those lines, being able to convert all gear to any style learned... though it should be costly, requiring more then just "plop in the new style material" - at the very least have a destruction chance like temper improvements based on the items quality that can be raised by using more style materials... (which in turn would also make recrafting something to a rare style take waaay more time in style material gathering... thus keeping the rare stuff "rare")
I would also require some the materials you would need to craft a item of that level from scratch - not all, but half, that sounds reasonable. And that means... they -could- add a function to use lower level materials to grab that low level look... (who doesn't think the lowbie breton light shoulder looked much better then the high level visuals?)

The crown store will benefit enough from this through all the players who really want that daedric/glass/dwemer/imperial/whatever style on their favorite buff outfit, yet can't seem to find the motiv...
And if that doesn't suffice... as one additional "not -quite- crown store only" option, they -could- require some "transformation" material as basis for all style recraftings, which might be really rare to find in the game (say, like nirncrux or perfect roe...) but is available in the crown store for player convinience for a really low price, buy eight and get two for free...

AlnilamE

Maybe they could have a transformation item that's sold for in-game gold for a high price (like the glue for the glass fragments). You'd need to have the proper style mats, it would turn your item white, so you'd have to re-improve and it would bind it to account (which is what I think the "convert to Imperial" does, right?).

mklundub17_ESO

I would take a page out of EQ2's book and have 2 completely separate armor equips for visual slots. One slot is for gear that gives you the stats, the other slot is purely cosmetic. Makes it far more interesting where people spend time farming pieces they would never actually wear. The whole costume thing is worn and poorly implemented.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I fully support this. As it presently stands, new motifs are really kind of meaningless. Almost no endgame build utilizes 7 pieces of crafted armor. So the idea of having an endgame character in all Glass armor for example is simply not realistic. Sure I could carry a crafted set for RP reasons while in town, but I already have enough trouble with inventory management.

What generally happens is you are trying to combine 2 dropped sets with a third crafted set, and you end up trying to pick a motif for the crafted set that looks the least terrible when combined with the other 2 styles. The more unique a new motif is, the less likely it is going to mix and match well with other pieces.

I have had this discussion a lot with guildies. Crafters have become essentially worthless in this game. I am not saying crafted gear is worthless, but being a top level crafter no longer provides much of a benefit because there are a 100 other people in your guild that can do the same thing. Crafters need some more abilities. Being able to change motif an ALL gear would be a great start. It is purely aesthetic so I can't fathom a reason for anyone to complain.

Sidebar: It's weird that you can currently do this for Imperial on some dropped gear but not all dropped gear.

I would also like to see an option for changing the Trait on dropped gear or even the Set on crafted gear. I have a bunch of Gold Willows gear I crafted a while back when it was great set. I would love to be able to take it to the Magnus station and convert it. But that might be a different thread...

Recremen

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Yes to the general notion, no to the "crown store only" part.

I would like to see something along those lines, being able to convert all gear to any style learned... though it should be costly, requiring more then just "plop in the new style material" - at the very least have a destruction chance like temper improvements based on the items quality that can be raised by using more style materials... (which in turn would also make recrafting something to a rare style take waaay more time in style material gathering... thus keeping the rare stuff "rare")
I would also require some the materials you would need to craft a item of that level from scratch - not all, but half, that sounds reasonable. And that means... they -could- add a function to use lower level materials to grab that low level look... (who doesn't think the lowbie breton light shoulder looked much better then the high level visuals?)

The crown store will benefit enough from this through all the players who really want that daedric/glass/dwemer/imperial/whatever style on their favorite buff outfit, yet can't seem to find the motiv...
And if that doesn't suffice... as one additional "not -quite- crown store only" option, they -could- require some "transformation" material as basis for all style recraftings, which might be really rare to find in the game (say, like nirncrux or perfect roe...) but is available in the crown store for player convinience for a really low price, buy eight and get two for free...

I have no idea why you'd want to add an even higher cost to gear by making re-skinning require high-level materials, especially since that's currently in the hundreds. You need at least 10k Tel Var Stones to get the materials to craft a single piece of end-game gear, adding on another 5k to that (or more) just to make it pretty seems ridiculous.

That said, I 100% agree regarding being able to craft it into a lower-level-look, I somehow missed putting that in there. I basically just want to see a system that replaces the Armor You Can Already Get But As An Undyeable Costume rut they've been in. The unique costumes like the dresses and the jester outfit are fantastic and they should definitely make more of those, but the other packs feel like a placeholder system instead of a permanent solution. Like "oh, we heard people want to be able to use low-level looks on high-level gear, so here's a bunch of generic NPC armor. Hope you like beige." Noooooo thanks, I'll keep hoarding my subscription crowns until something actually fits my needs. :-|

Recremen

willymchilybily wrote: »

Id do it via crown store to support the game and continued development of the game. but i wouldn't tie it to purchasing the style from the crown store. It would be unfair to all those long committed players that found all their motif books and collected or traded them. I'd simply do it via a stack of X conversion kits. but the mechanic for such a thing would have to be implimented, so not as nice a solution as yours in many ways

I always thought some of the crown store purchases were overpriced if they didn't apply to all characters, horse lessons etc. As far as i know unlocking a style via crown store is character specific?

I'd rather steer clear of any kind of conversion kit solution, to be honest. People change their dyes regularly and I'm sure would prefer to change their gear styles regularly if they could. Experimentation is the real Emperor. Tying monetization to a conversion kit system might also encourage stagnation on new styles, since they'd just be getting money any time someone wanted to change looks anyway. By making the system dependent on motif sales, they can encourage higher one-time spending on the tradeoff that they only get one potential investment per account. Since that's the direction they've gone with Crown Store Mounts, I think it's already in line with their business strategy. Moreover, I think players would be more willing to buy motifs from the store, even though they can get pretty expensive, if they knew it came with account-wide conversion access.

Now that I've thought about it more, the option might as well have to be account-wide, since currently a player can own one crafting character and make low-level gear for their alts in new styles anyway. Further, if conversion bound an item to the account (and if it doesn't cost a style material, it should) then all the player's alts can just grab it from their bank, too. So it might as well unlock conversion account-wide.

grumlins

Absolutely! End of line.

Elektrakosh

Yes to convert to style. You can with Imperial style if you get the Imperial pack.

I've always wanted Primal gear and currently can't get anything.

Teridaxus

I prefer both crown store and ingame vesion, but if they ever do this, it will be crown store only.
Motifs are cosmetic after all.

UltimaJoe777

Crown Store Motifs already have no Rank requirement which is plenty. Also conversions bind equipment to your account anyway so it would not be as overall beneficial as you may think.

TheShadowScout

Recremen wrote: »

I have no idea why you'd want to add an even higher cost to gear by making re-skinning require high-level materials, especially since that's currently in the hundreds. You need at least 10k Tel Var Stones to get the materials to craft a single piece of end-game gear, adding on another 5k to that (or more) just to make it pretty seems ridiculous.

Well, I hadnt been thinking of Tel Var stones, but I was thinking of the materials you'd need to craft the -look-, not the -effect-. Meaning you'd only need those stones if you -want- super-endgame looks... if you like lower level looks, you just put in some lower level materials and there you go... from lowbie look to the current voidstone/voidcloth/shadowhide/nightwood looks...

Recremen wrote: »

That said, I 100% agree regarding being able to craft it into a lower-level-look, I somehow missed putting that in there. I basically just want to see a system that replaces the Armor You Can Already Get But As An Undyeable Costume rut they've been in. The unique costumes like the dresses and the jester outfit are fantastic and they should definitely make more of those, but the other packs feel like a placeholder system instead of a permanent solution. Like "oh, we heard people want to be able to use low-level looks on high-level gear, so here's a bunch of generic NPC armor. Hope you like beige." Noooooo thanks, I'll keep hoarding my subscription crowns until something actually fits my needs. :-|

Yeah, I really dislike those "armor costumes" as it takes away individuality. I mean, sure, they might be great for some guild wanting an "uniform" look... but I personally hate them and would very much prefer being able to make any dropped or crafted set in any visual style...
The other costumes for roleplaying support I love though! Even if I sometimes wish they would disable themselves in combat... at least the "non-armor clothes"... oh, well.

Prof_Bawbag

For the price they're asking for the dwemer and Imperial ones, those 2 motifs should have that option. I know the imperial dlc adds that option for the imperial armour, but so should buying the motif. The rest, not really fussed about because whilst pricey, they're not 5000 crowns like the other 2.

Rosveen

Recremen wrote: »

Problems With These Systems: the Crown Store is where convenience and customization options will be found, and these proposed systems do not incorporate the Crown Store. Therefore, they are not up for consideration.

This is where we fundamentally disagree. I understand their business strategy, but I'm never going to support it, let alone ask for more. I don't want to play an empty shell of a game where everything fun needs to be purchased separately. At the very least include it in ESO Plus so I can subscribe to a complete experience without constantly worrying what I'm missing out on. Having only one-time conversion tokens isn't an option. Making looted motifs useless isn't an option.

Recremen

Rosveen wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Problems With These Systems: the Crown Store is where convenience and customization options will be found, and these proposed systems do not incorporate the Crown Store. Therefore, they are not up for consideration.

This is where we fundamentally disagree. I understand their business strategy, but I'm never going to support it, let alone ask for more. I don't want to play an empty shell of a game where everything fun needs to be purchased separately. At the very least include it in ESO Plus so I can subscribe to a complete experience without constantly worrying what I'm missing out on. Having only one-time conversion tokens isn't an option. Making looted motifs useless isn't an option.

I would have preferred they kept the subscription model as well, but as they have not it falls to the consumers to decide how to respond to the new model. While fiat virtual currency, artificially-created scarcity, and the like are abhorrent, I am apparently too much of a fan of the series to stop buying their product. As such, I prefer to at least propose solutions that are in line with my desires and what appears to be their existing economic strategy. Tying a (as far as I can tell) frequently-requested system into an existing and (as far as I can tell) under-performing system seems the best bet.

One of the reasons we are seeing (and will hereafter continue to see) impossible-to-acquire motifs in the game is to encourage crown-store purchases. It sucks, but it will never change, that's the end of it. Further complicating the problem is that much of your gear isn't even going to be crafted, even after all the hours of gameplay or money you put into getting the motif. It's a huge letdown that can be cleverly avoided if they implement this kind of system, or really any kind of system along the same vein. Then the motifs are definitely worth the purchase, instead of maybe worth it, on the off-chance you'll have a crafted item in your end-game gear.

I'm 100% with you regarding the No Conversion Kits philosophy. Dyes are freely changeable, and if they're going to make other aesthetic parts of gear changeable you should have just as much freedom to experiment.

I'm very sympathetic to your concerns about looted motifs. I don't think they'd be completely worthless in this kind of system, since you can still craft gear for yourself or others in a given style, but they would be heavily undervalued for sure. Obviously I wouldn't be against restricting restyling only on the basis of knowing a motif, instead of needing to know the Crown Store version, but I wasn't going to open up a proposal with something that greedy just in case anyone important started to /lurk here. ;-)

mrskinskull

Recremen wrote: »

Motivation: I frequently see posts asking for more fine-tuned customization regarding the visuals on their gear. This is especially brought up in the context of dropped set items, whose visuals can't be controlled in any capacity. Present systems do not adequately accommodate the desires of these players.

Previous Suggestions: add vanity slots, implement "transmog" system, etc.

Problems With These Systems: the Crown Store is where convenience and customization options will be found, and these proposed systems do not incorporate the Crown Store. Therefore, they are not up for consideration.

Elegant Solution: let the motifs in the Crown Store also unlock a "Convert to _____ style" option for all gear on that character (account?) in a similar manner to the "Convert to Imperial style" option. Specifically, it should bind the gear to the player, and it should be useable on ALL gear types, from set items to crafted items.

Benefits:

• Smooth integration with the Crown Store motif system, no need for a new tab on the character menu or other extraneous window
• Keeps customization in the Crown Store. Heck, it's even convenient.
• Expands with each new motif that gets put out
  • Bonus: motivation for ZOS to put out even more rare looks as crafting motifs, such as Ebon Armor or Lord's Mail
• Converted gear is dye-able, unlike costumes

Drawbacks:

• Makes motifs found in-game intrinsically less valuable than other options
• Those who've already acquired motifs would need to double-dip to get such functionality
• Some costume packs would be entirely valueless by comparison
  • Mitigating Factor: motifs sales would easily increase far beyond what those costume packs are worth to begin with, since player options under this system would increase by several orders of magnitude compared to the (relatively simplistic) costuming system
  • Mitigating Factor: all unique costumes, such as the wedding dress, jester costume, and Draugr polymorph would maintain their present value as they cannot be duplicated with in-game armor

If such a system were to be used, I am sure folks would also want to maintain the current advantage that costumes have when it comes to letting them hide their armor type. As such, you should probably also be able to convert to the visual appearance of other armor types while maintaining the actual underlying armor type. In this way, your heavy Ravager butthuggers could look like that Daedric skirt everybody loves, but still actually be heavy armor.

Thoughts/Endorsements/Criticisms/Bagels?

Bagels?

Yum.

This is super handy for my imperial.

Its actually a stronger selling point to me than a mud crab pet.


Even my high elf can convert stuff to imperial.

I love this feature and it makes it feel like I paid for something tangible.