Why are stamina based nightblades bad (pvp and high level pve)

Dandrayton

Why do I feel so underpowered as a stamina nightblade, I'm v11.
Why is dark cloak broken in pvp, it's so easy to get pulled out of it with ranged attacks.
I can't get through a sorcerer's shield. I can't stay alive long enough to outsustain a templar and their self heals, I don't have shields or self heals, and my only source of escape is broken. What gives. Half the time I use my ultimate and it misses the person, (incapacitated strike) or I use soul tether and they don't get stunned for a millisecond.Nightblades are so squishy that if they get knocked down by a crystal frag they die within seconds, I don't get a chance to fight back or escape. Gonna quit this game pretty soon..

leepalmer95

Go look at a few pvp videos, stam nb's are one if not THE strongest pvp class at the moment.

They have the highest burst dmg in the game, more than enough to kill anything.

For templars use a disease enchant to drop their healing by 30%.

Sorc just get rid of their stamina, put pressure on them as their only physical shield is hardened ward. Dodge roll frags it's pretty easy too.

21jws10

Maybe that playstyle isn't for you? That seems to be a problem a lot of the time. I can't play a classic sorc, planning to try something new, but still feel unsure.

UltimaJoe777

21jws10 wrote: »

Maybe that playstyle isn't for you? That seems to be a problem a lot of the time. I can't play a classic sorc, planning to try something new, but still feel unsure.

This exactly. Everyone has their own playstyle and that is why the metagame is not something I personally recommend. Find out your best suit is and wear it!

TheShadowScout

All true, OP. Those are the nightblades weaknesses. Now... find their strengths!

Sadly it is true that NBs defensive capabilities are kinda cra... uhm... suboptimal. So do your best to kill them before they can kill you... which granted often is much harder then it sounds.

When it comes to defense, dodge roll is your friend. Also, never run when you pop your cloak, walk, and remember it re-initializes your backstab opportunity if you use it right.

Speaking of which, an opening attack from stealth at the enemies back is the stamina nightblades bread and butter. And while its kinda hard to get close enough for it in the often mad dash of cyrodil action, teleport strike is your friend in this matter...

Killers Blade is useful for the increased damage against low HP - makes it a nice finisher if you get them low through your initial assault.

Swallow Soul is pretty much your only common use selfheal, and a crappy HoT at that, though it also does a nice bit of damage - but to really keep your health up you'd have to cast it a lot, and stamina NBs don't have the magika for that.

An often underestimated skill is the Shade... summon shade, go cloak, and reposition for backstab while they get confused by the shade - that can work well, sometimes.

You don't use soul tether for the stun BtW, you use it for the selfheal... PvP means people will break your stuns left and right, so don't depend on them.

The main point is - stamina NBs are glass cannons. Either you do it all right and kill them quick, or you make a mistake and die, it takes a great deal of skill to manage a long fight as NB. If you DO attain your skill (and I personally haven't yet, though I am getting better), they can be rather nifty...

P3ZZL3

21jws10 wrote: »

Maybe that playstyle isn't for you? That seems to be a problem a lot of the time. I can't play a classic sorc, planning to try something new, but still feel unsure.

Yup Can;t play a DK to save my life. Templar and Sorcs on the other hand

Leandor

EDIT: True. I shouldn't have written that first paragraph. Apologies.

I actually agree with @21jws10, it may simply be a question of playstyle. For sure, the nightblade does not allow you to simply go head to toe with enemies and expect to win. The secret to the stamina blade is to not be where they expect you to be.

Don't use the cloak after they have found you and are actually chasing you. You need to be very proactive - escape before they even try to chase you and your cloak will work. Choose your fights carefully until you have learned the style. In any given fight, your primary defense is not cloak (as stamina blade you can't cast it often enough) but roll dodge, double take and speed.

Don't ever run in straight lines. Always make sure that you have favourable terrain (lots of objects that can break line of sight). If a battle goes less well, use your speed to get near those objects. Use block to fend of the initial assault (which will definitely include velocious curse or inevitable detonation. You need to wait until those actually go off before you cloak - they will always pull you out). Again, dodge around a corner to break LOS, then cloak, then change your direction and get away.

Melee takes a whole lot of training to pull off in PvP and not everyone is quick enough. It took me more than a year of PvP and I am still not very good at it. Bow does make things much easier from a purely dexterity point of view. Watch those videos - they always stay at a certain range away from their enemies by constantly moving forward and back. Actually, you want to make sure you are at around maximum distance (5m) for all melee attacks, that allows you also to quickly get out of range if the enemy tries to retaliate.

Hang in there. You can do it, but it takes a lot.

Skiserony

Depends on how much time you've spent in Cyrodiil. If it were your first 100 hours, then it's not really about the build. There are many players with 2000+ hours and with ridiculous many cp. So it's only normal if you feel like this when you enter PvP. Also once you hit V14 you should be able to get much better gear.

I think we might be able to help you more if you'd share some more information about your build, who knows what sets and weapons you're running around with.

Other than that, the only advice I can give is: practice, practice, practice.

Reznique

People can win 1vX with an argonian magica Templar....

Therefore the key is gear and practice.

Btw, when you reach max level and get your end game gear- you will feel the difference

leepalmer95

Leandor wrote: »

First step is to not listen to @leepalmer95, since he is on a raging crusade against nightblades as a whole and is ignoring every piece of information given to him that has time and again disproved his rants.

I actually agree with @21jws10, it may simply be a question of playstyle. For sure, the nightblade does not allow you to simply go head to toe with enemies and expect to win. The secret to the stamina blade is to not be where they expect you to be.

Don't use the cloak after they have found you and are actually chasing you. You need to be very proactive - escape before they even try to chase you and your cloak will work. Choose your fights carefully until you have learned the style. In any given fight, your primary defense is not cloak (as stamina blade you can't cast it often enough) but roll dodge, double take and speed.

Don't ever run in straight lines. Always make sure that you have favourable terrain (lots of objects that can break line of sight). If a battle goes less well, use your speed to get near those objects. Use block to fend of the initial assault (which will definitely include velocious curse or inevitable detonation. You need to wait until those actually go off before you cloak - they will always pull you out). Again, dodge around a corner to break LOS, then cloak, then change your direction and get away.

Melee takes a whole lot of training to pull off in PvP and not everyone is quick enough. It took me more than a year of PvP and I am still not very good at it. Bow does make things much easier from a purely dexterity point of view. Watch those videos - they always stay at a certain range away from their enemies by constantly moving forward and back. Actually, you want to make sure you are at around maximum distance (5m) for all melee attacks, that allows you also to quickly get out of range if the enemy tries to retaliate.

Hang in there. You can do it, but it takes a lot.

Ignore what? My advice to look up a few pvp videos of stamina nb's? So he gets a general idea of what rotation, skills and how to play? Or how about my disease enchant advice, to decrease the heals of dk's and templars? what exactly about his is bad advice or against nb's?

Magicka Sorc and stamina nb's are the strongest in pvp in 1.6. They are the only classes that can confidently 1vx

Your entire advice to him is dodge roll, block and don't cloak if they see you.

willymchilybily

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

First step is to not listen to @leepalmer95, since he is on a raging crusade against nightblades as a whole and is ignoring every piece of information given to him that has time and again disproved his rants... [snip]...Hang in there. You can do it, but it takes a lot.

Ignore what? My advice to look up a few pvp videos of stamina nb's? So he gets a general idea of what rotation, skills and how to play? Or how about my disease enchant advice, to decrease the heals of dk's and templars? what exactly about his is bad advice or against nb's?

Magicka Sorc and stamina nb's are the strongest in pvp in 1.6. They are the only classes that can confidently 1vx

Your entire advice to him is dodge roll, block and don't cloak if they see you.

@leepalmer95 I thought your advice on disease enchant was sound. Welll for the DW/2H. If his second bar is bow, he can use lethal arrow to afflict the enemy with the "Major defile" debuff instead, and use venom arrow to interupt casting. That i would think might be a bit better to gimp the Templar.

I think it is tough as a night blade, their sustain just isn't all that unless you are very well versed and well geared. So its hard to get a templar to be stun/rooted/feared enough for them to use their stamina all up, and i rarely see templars alone if ever. and with 1.7 /update7 I suspect you can't glass cannon 2 shot them any more either

Leandor

@leepalmer95 You know what? You are right. I should not have written that first paragraph. Apologies.

Etaniel

Dandrayton wrote: »

Why do I feel so underpowered as a stamina nightblade, I'm v11.
Why is dark cloak broken in pvp, it's so easy to get pulled out of it with ranged attacks.
I can't get through a sorcerer's shield. I can't stay alive long enough to outsustain a templar and their self heals, I don't have shields or self heals, and my only source of escape is broken. What gives. Half the time I use my ultimate and it misses the person, (incapacitated strike) or I use soul tether and they don't get stunned for a millisecond.Nightblades are so squishy that if they get knocked down by a crystal frag they die within seconds, I don't get a chance to fight back or escape. Gonna quit this game pretty soon..

@Dandrayton
Watch these two videos and then try to argue how stamblades are weak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqMqmsO5nhw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuyuZkxYp3M

Junipus

Use surprise attack for the initial hit and 2h for rally and the heals. Much easier than swallow soul/funnel health and you can keep yourself stealthed while doing so.

Buff yourself with rally before entering a fight so you can activate it again if things go bad for that burst heal. Use relentless focus for the extra damage and stamina regen. Position yourself behind the enemy when possible for the extra damage bonus and ALWAYS be aware of your surroundings making sure you can see as far away as possible along your gank/combat route.

The biggest problem I've seen with new NBs is they jump the first thing they see without noticing the 12 players behind them and then get steamrolled.

If you're facing dodge rollers (rejoice, they'll be gone next week), simply surprise attack or critical rush into them since they can't escape the damage.

If you're sniping, learn to weave attacks instead of spamming snipe. You can land a heavy attack, venom arrow and light attack by the time a snipe hits a target at long range.

Most importantly, if you can't burst someone down quick enough and it's not going well, cloak up and move somewhere else entirely. Count to 2 after cloaking and reapply until your magicka is almost gone and then stealth with one more cloak. You should then be completely safe unless there are other factors at play

DaveTheMinion

I tried NB........ It sucked!
I tried DK........ It Sucked!
I currently play Sorc and I found out something new .......... I suck!!!

I have watched live streams and looked at builds all swearing that their build is the best! they are right, but you also have to have the ability to use the character to its potential, I have what I thought was an awesome Sorc build, but the developers didn't think there would ever be a player walking around like me trying to play it. I am like Gandalf with dementia.....

I am currently VR11 I am capable of handling most situations in PVE but in PVP I die more than I kill, but that's a combination of nerves, lack of skill against better players and not paying attention to my surroundings, but hey I have fun so I'm going to keep playing, hopefully I will eventually get better????? I HOPE!

Heathenpride

There's some seriously sound advice here in this thread, I will certainly be using it to my advantage.

I have some advice but it's from my own experience and I am not claiming to be an authority on the matter

I have had the game since release on PS4 and am V5 StamBlade.

I have good days and bad.

I knew the character would be tough and that's part of the reason I did it. Unfortunately for me I am 'old school' and refuse to equip my 5 foot tall elvish female with a 2H weapon and I stroll around with daggers, like it should be IMO.

This means I remove myself from (apparently?) the best NB build of 2H and Stam but I don't care, like I said I am old school.

Another thing I went and did (oops) was maxed Alchemy, Prov, Clothing and Smithing so I have minimal points in combat skills - I use a couple of skill lines (maxed) and that's it. Yes I know this is likely to my detriment but it suits me and means my NB is the character I want her to be: a stealthy assassin who doesn't need anyone else to make her armour, food or pots.

I have taken my squishy NB to Cyro and managed top ten on the leaderboards once and I hold my own but some days I just get murdered, it is indeed frustrating OP.

I have rebuilt my NB about 7 times so far, I have tried nearly everything, and I am getting there slowly!

There is a certain site out there that has paid guides, DO NOT purchase them as there is far better info in these forums by folks such as have commented herein.

Lastly: Cyro is not, ever, a consistent measurement for your character. There are just so many variables that can see you going from one day dominating to the next day being slaughtered soundly... it's a fun place to be but don't beat yourself up over it if you're getting murdered every few minutes.

Here's a few hints that help me, not an exhaustive list:

1. Play to your strengths
2. Buff, Buff, BUFF!
3. If it isn't fun anymore then do something else for a while
4. Instead of focusing on straight out combat you can do other things like being the cloaked death dealer who protects the seige or the one who scouts ahead, gives sneaky res or stealth seige destroying which is soooo much fun and satisfying when you don't get seen!
5. Gear: Taylor it to your character! If you see a set and you like the look of what it does then give it a try, worst case scenario you decon it and start again!
6. Join a guild with NB's in it, seriously. These other NB's are a wealth of knowledge and can honestly do wonders for your build.
7. Crit Crit CRIT! Crit is your friend, get that shizzle as high as you can get!
8. Get a werewolf bite, no need to put points into it just get the buff and put a point in to 'devour'. The stam regen is always active, though I hear a nerf is inbound so the days of doing that may be numbered. If you happen to be on NA PS4 server for EP then I am happy to bite you for the grand total of 0 gold

Have fun with it!

HP

EDIT: Nice username, fellow Disturbed fan here \m/

Dandrayton

How important is weapon damage, my attacks do like NO damage whatsoever, that's my biggest problem. even from stealth it doesn't do anything in 1 on 1 pvp

Dandrayton

People snipe me for 10k and stuff and I feel like my attacks do 2-4k...

Van_0S

I just use flying blade(DW) most of the time ,to stunt them from far and watch them get slaughter by my GRP members. ; )

mistermutiny89

Kind of off topic here but I am so glad the OP is getting constructive feedback and helpful tips for once! Are we finally forming a placid, helpful community on these forums?! So good to see!

Back on topic, pretty much exactly what everyone else is stating: perhaps nightblades aren't your play style FOR NOW. I got my first nightblade to VR14 and I hated him. I think I still hate him haha. But I made another one because they are freaking cool as a class. I have one of nearly every type of class both stamina and Magicka and I'll play one for a while and feel so overpowered with it until I'm burnt out and be like "nah this character is rubbish" then go play another one.. It's okay to be frustrated with your character.. But that's why you should make another!

Magicka Nightblades or Magicka anything is always going to be easier to play as nearly all of your fun and useful abilities are Magicka based but when you make that decision to go stamina you have to sacrifice many of those fun skills and just go straight weapon skills.

Just remember the abilities you slot and how they affect your player. Nightblade gets bonus damage on crits and stealth so slot camo Hunter (crit and stealth damage booster). This can be on both bars. Shadow abilities give you more health per slot, assassin - more crit, siphon - Magicka and healing received bonuses. The nightblades Passives are incredible and really straight forward.

For your bow bar .. If you feel like it's doing no damage perhaps get as many damage over times as you can... Crippling grasp even as a Stam build does great damage plus slows your enemy and speeds you up, then knock a venom arrow into them then start sniping..

When their health gets to about half switch to your melee and use your gap closer and button mash light attack and surprise attack or wrecking blow and pray the sonofa.. dies. If you have meteor drop that on them around this point too.

But remember before even engaging combat you want your buffs up.. Something that increases your weapon power like 2 handers rally and the night blades grim focus that buffs all damage (that includes ultimate damage) by 8% while active.

Unfortunately dark cloak (our only true line of defense) doesn't seem to work right now as you said. You'd expect it to be your block and dodge roll in a way but it's not. I hear they are working on this for the next update but I truly don't think it's going to be any better. Fingers crossed!!

Suru

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Go look at a few pvp videos, stam nb's are one if not THE strongest pvp class at the moment.

They have the highest burst dmg in the game, more than enough to kill anything.

For templars use a disease enchant to drop their healing by 30%.

Sorc just get rid of their stamina, put pressure on them as their only physical shield is hardened ward. Dodge roll frags it's pretty easy too.

The burst is so good.

MightyMalloy

21jws10 wrote: »

Maybe that playstyle isn't for you? That seems to be a problem a lot of the time. I can't play a classic sorc, planning to try something new, but still feel unsure.

Completely agree, I have such a hard time playing my Sorc's in PvP because it's not my play-style, but I find very easy to play my Stam Templar and Nightblade.

I'd also suggest watching PvP videos of other Nightblades and see how they play, see the different skills people use and the combined all of the best ones that work for you.. If you just copy someone else's build don't expect to be a beast with it because that's what works best for them, so it may not work for you.

Knootewoot

NB is a lot of fun when you get the hang of it. My build has totally no heal/defence so I die in (mostly) one smack in the face. I don't even have block mapped to a key since using it made little difference (I have an ability mapped on 2nd mouse)

But most attacks like Crystal frag can easily be dodge rolled. Yes, penetrating a Sorc shield is hard but dual shades, caltrops and more can do the trick. But to be honest then they just bolt away and come back with full shields. Mostly I either leave them alone or gank them while they are on horse.

Stealth is your friend. Don't only rely on cloak. Make use of the environment. Many times I attack someone and I cannot get into sneak. So I try to cloak away but they have detect potions. But I hid many times behind a rock or tree and got away with it.

Your burst is important. Stamina build often have weapon damage very high. I run a hybrid build so mine is low, but it's more a support role I play (sniping, caltrops, retreating manouvres and purge I run) which is good for a group. If you go solo you better do selfish skills which maximize your weapon or spell power depending on which build.

Also, since most players are Vamp or Werewolf, you can die instant almost when people use Dawnbreaker of smithing. Don't get discouraged by that. Remember, it is just a game. You spawn and you play more.

If you don't have fun at all playing NB then perhaps it's better to reroll. But don't give up just yet