Stamina Sorc - just change Crystal Blast (crystal shard morph) to Stamina based

twistedmonk

Make Crystal Blast useful and make it a stamina morph...people have been saying that for over a year....

Simple and easy fix to help stamina sorcs.

I don't have the numbers, but I'm willing to bet the vast majority of sorcerers take the Crystal Fragment morph).

May not solve all the issues, but it would definitely help a lot.

there....fixed...

Mettaricana

I agree so hard it hurts

Draehl

Yeah. Back off all these passive buffs and just add something like this type of proc that will actually add to gameplay and let stamina sorcs feels unique. As-is the class feels like a stack of buffs to prop up your chosen weapon skills.

Mr_Koh

I'd actually rather have a stamina sorc execute.

Emma_Overload

Jesus... ANOTHER one of these threads today?

Did it ever occur to wannabe Stamina Sorcs that a damage morph is USELESS until you have a way to stay alive? Sorcs would be SO much better off with a Stamina scaled morph of Conjured Ward than a Stamina Crystal Frag.

Your idea of a Stamina Sorc: Shielded by crappy 6K Ward while futzing with unreliable, RNG-based Crystal Frag proc.

My idea of a Stamina Sorc: Shielded by awesome 18K Ward while spamming dependable Wrecking Blow or Snipe.

My Stamina Sorc would an unkillable monster versus your half-baked Stamfail Sorc.

The WHOLE POINT of a Stamina Sorc, in my opinion, is having access to all the cool Stamina based weapon lines... but you guys don't care at all about that, LOL. All you want to do is replicate the gimmicky pray-for-procs playstyle invented by Magicka Sorcs because we don't have a spammable class damage spell, and the Destro staff spells are so weak.

AssaultLemming

I don't see why you need a stamina damage skill when you have three stamina weapon trees to choose from. Just slot snipe and venom arrow if you want stam damage

Dracane

AssaultLemming wrote: »

I don't see why you need a stamina damage skill when you have three stamina weapon trees to choose from. Just slot snipe and venom arrow if you want stam damage

I somewhat agree. Magicka Sorcerers are forced to use weapon abilities either.
Weapon abilities need their place in the game, or we can just remove them all together.

I think the point here is, that Dragonknights, Templars and Nightblades have spammable class abilities that deal high or at least reasonable damage and they can choose, if they want to use weapon abilities or their own abilities. In fact, their own abilities are even more desirable.
Sorcerers don't have this freedom to choose, that's why so many people are asking for it and since Stamina Sorcerer became such a big topic, they want one either. Even though Sorcerer doesn't have something like this at all.

So yea, would be fair to give Sorcerer an ability to give them the freedom to choose.

Erock25

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Jesus... ANOTHER one of these threads today?

Did it ever occur to wannabe Stamina Sorcs that a damage morph is USELESS until you have a way to stay alive? Sorcs would be SO much better off with a Stamina scaled morph of Conjured Ward than a Stamina Crystal Frag.

Your idea of a Stamina Sorc: Shielded by crappy 6K Ward while futzing with unreliable, RNG-based Crystal Frag proc.

My idea of a Stamina Sorc: Shielded by awesome 18K Ward while spamming dependable Wrecking Blow or Snipe.

My Stamina Sorc would an unkillable monster versus your half-baked Stamfail Sorc.

The WHOLE POINT of a Stamina Sorc, in my opinion, is having access to all the cool Stamina based weapon lines... but you guys don't care at all about that, LOL. All you want to do is replicate the gimmicky pray-for-procs playstyle invented by Magicka Sorcs because we don't have a spammable class damage spell, and the Destro staff spells are so weak.

Look, I know you personally like to refute any claim for crystal blast turning into a stam morph, but it is clear you don't know how the game works in PvP if you can't understand why a instant cast spell (from a proc chance) wouldn't be a HUGE boost to stam sorc PvP burst dps following the one second long cast time of wrecking blow.

CP5

Erock25 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Jesus... ANOTHER one of these threads today?

Did it ever occur to wannabe Stamina Sorcs that a damage morph is USELESS until you have a way to stay alive? Sorcs would be SO much better off with a Stamina scaled morph of Conjured Ward than a Stamina Crystal Frag.

Your idea of a Stamina Sorc: Shielded by crappy 6K Ward while futzing with unreliable, RNG-based Crystal Frag proc.

My idea of a Stamina Sorc: Shielded by awesome 18K Ward while spamming dependable Wrecking Blow or Snipe.

My Stamina Sorc would an unkillable monster versus your half-baked Stamfail Sorc.

The WHOLE POINT of a Stamina Sorc, in my opinion, is having access to all the cool Stamina based weapon lines... but you guys don't care at all about that, LOL. All you want to do is replicate the gimmicky pray-for-procs playstyle invented by Magicka Sorcs because we don't have a spammable class damage spell, and the Destro staff spells are so weak.

Look, I know you personally like to refute any claim for crystal blast turning into a stam morph, but it is clear you don't know how the game works in PvP if you can't understand why a instant cast spell (from a proc chance) wouldn't be a HUGE boost to stam sorc PvP burst dps following the one second long cast time of wrecking blow.

Or that shields down't help as much if you have a large amount of armor with the spill over, or that a stamina crystal frag would be very valuable with the blood magic passive procing.

ToRelax

twistedmonk wrote: »

Make Crystal Blast useful and make it a stamina morph...people have been saying that for over a year....

[...]

Yeah, sure, since a half year more likely.
But make it stamina pls, it's such an obvious change other than this Lightning Form crap.

byrom101b16_ESO

The OP said Crystal BLAST, not Frags...

If it was changed to a stamina Blast, there would be almost instant follow-up calls for the 'useless' blast to be changed to Frags.

So why don't proponents of the stamina version of Blast just 'fess up and say it like it is - they want and instant proc Frags.

Eejit1331

IMO, wrath or frag needs a stamina version to be on par with the other classes and their options for stamina dps.

ToRelax

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

The OP said Crystal BLAST, not Frags...

If it was changed to a stamina Blast, there would be almost instant follow-up calls for the 'useless' blast to be changed to Frags.

So why don't proponents of the stamina version of Blast just 'fess up and say it like it is - they want and instant proc Frags.

Everytime I discussed this with anyone the result was that we'd like Blast changed in how it works and be a stamina morph.
A medium or close range ability, instant or with procs on stamina skills, a small AoE component or not, and a knockdown.

Xael

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

The OP said Crystal BLAST, not Frags...

If it was changed to a stamina Blast, there would be almost instant follow-up calls for the 'useless' blast to be changed to Frags.

So why don't proponents of the stamina version of Blast just 'fess up and say it like it is - they want and instant proc Frags.

You act like people are deliberately trying to hide their intent. I have been saying Frags since day 1. I want the useless and rarely used Crystal Blast changed to a Stamina morph that mirrors Frags. See? People...

RinaldoGandolphi

Honestly

I think Daedric Tomb turned into a Stamina Morph of Daedric Minefield would be better then Crystal Blast Turned into a Stamina Morph.

A Stamina Version of Daedric Tomb (5 mines) that the Stamina Sorc can use for area denial, that roots those who step on them, and also heals them via the blood magic passive would make Stamina Sorc's the best stamina class in the game, and that skill would find its spot on Stamina Sorc bars quickly, and it synergies much better with the weapon skills then A stamina Morph of Crystal Blast would, and would actually allow Stamina Sorc's to win the war of attrition with DK, Stamplars, and Nightblades.

Daedric Mine field is just money, and a Stamina Version of that skill would be fantastic.

actosh

Why not let ppl choose wich ressource their skills should use and let them scale like ultimates does?!

Would add a lot more build possibilities.

Tankqull

not arguing but there is allready an ongoing discussion regarding this here :

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208433/a-question-for-you-magicka-sorcs

Huggalump

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm fairly new, but there's no damn way we're going to get an instant cast knock down that also does decent damage. That sounds ridiculously op. IMO, the stamina crystal blast should be purely a damage dealer, not a cc stacked onto it. Maybe it could have some kind of proc, but an instant cast spammable knockdown that's also a main damage dealer is probably asking too much.

bowmanz607

Not saying I disagree with implementing stamina morphs for sorcs, but from an immersion and logical standpoint a stamina sorc just seems illogical. I mean a sorcerer is a magical character. The point was to attract magical users. But from a play as you want and diversity standpoint to balance stam and magicka out, stam sorcs do need a spammable class dps ability. I would have to disagree with the sheild being stamina. That is just op. Medium armor and a sheild that scales off of Stamina no way. I love the mones idea. It is practical and a heavily used ability. It fits in with the idea zos tries to implement which is melee class abilities getting a stam morph . Mines would be perfect for a stam build and a fair balance. I am not s9ld on frags getting a stam morph. That is like a nb getting a stam morph for strife.

Xael

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Honestly

I think Daedric Tomb turned into a Stamina Morph of Daedric Minefield would be better then Crystal Blast Turned into a Stamina Morph.

A Stamina Version of Daedric Tomb (5 mines) that the Stamina Sorc can use for area denial, that roots those who step on them, and also heals them via the blood magic passive would make Stamina Sorc's the best stamina class in the game, and that skill would find its spot on Stamina Sorc bars quickly, and it synergies much better with the weapon skills then A stamina Morph of Crystal Blast would, and would actually allow Stamina Sorc's to win the war of attrition with DK, Stamplars, and Nightblades.

Daedric Mine field is just money, and a Stamina Version of that skill would be fantastic.

Have you ever played a Stamina Sorc? Even once?
Stamina Sorcs are mobile... daedric mines..? No.

First off, landing Tomb in a fight where everyone is moving around constantly is going to be a problem. Not sure about you, but I PvP regularly. Trying to land this spell is going to be a serious issue, not to mention a resource hog. Next, you mention Blood Magic passive... Stamina Sorcs are not needing more healing. We have Vigor and Rally, besides, EVEN IF someone is bad enough to walk on a mine, Blood Magic only heals you for 875 if you are at 20k Health. I know this because I am using this skill on PTS. Also you are leaving out that Blast also makes use of Blood Magic.

The rest of your statement about Blast was so out of touch I would be shocked to learn you even play a Stam Sorc.
Frags was on every Stam Sorc bar pre 1.5. BECAUSE it synergized so well. As I mentioned earlier, Tomb is going to be completely unreliable considering it comes out in a straight line with a GCD and a mini cast (materialize).This also means you need to wait for someone to run over your mines which most skill players are going to avoid. That said, at best this is a gimmick build. Cystal Blast (Stam Frag) on the other hand you can use when you decide and it will have a much higher success rate of landing. Reliable vs Unreliable really.

The other problem with this outside of logistical issues is you are now stealing a morph from Magicka users. Unlike Blast, quite a few magicka Sorcs use this morph.

Huggalump wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm fairly new, but there's no damn way we're going to get an instant cast knock down that also does decent damage. That sounds ridiculously op. IMO, the stamina crystal blast should be purely a damage dealer, not a cc stacked onto it. Maybe it could have some kind of proc, but an instant cast spammable knockdown that's also a main damage dealer is probably asking too much.

Hugga, ZOS implemented "training wheels" on PvP quite some time ago which makes people immune to hard CCs for several seconds after being CC'd. You can't chain spam knockdown. At best in your hypothesis, said Stam Sorc, will be hardcasting direct damage which is not much different than spamming Wrecking Blow or any other Direct Damage ability. The only difference with this ability would be the chance to proc it on said hardcast. It's not going to be overpowered because a smart playing is going to bash him when he casts (or use other interupts, Venom Arrow/Crushing Shock, etc).

bowmanz607

https://youtu.be/3PnyuqXliOQ

before you guys start asking for more stam sorc changes take some time and check this out. this build also does not include the new stam recovery passive.

5k weapon damage, 35k stamina and with recovery buff would be about 1200 recovery. Also, utilizes mostly class abilities. So ya I think they will be fine. Now before you start yelling "ya but its deltia and we all cant be that good." It is a pts build and with the high damage and stamina amount you can easily trade that off for more recovery and change things accordingly to tailor your playstyle. all of the tools are there.

twistedmonk

bowmanz607 wrote: »

5k weapon damage, 35k stamina and with recovery buff would be about 1200 recovery. Also, utilizes mostly class abilities. So ya I think they will be fine. Now before you start yelling "ya but its deltia and we all cant be that good." It is a pts build and with the high damage and stamina amount you can easily trade that off for more recovery and change things accordingly to tailor your playstyle. all of the tools are there.

Have you even played this build? having 5k weapon dmg is nothing new, people have that already. Having a large stamina pool is just one way to get around the no stamina regen while blocking.

But this build is all about putting sorcerer buffs on your toolbar and maybe using 1 weapon skill.

It does not seem to have much defense (no shield stacking due to small magic pool). This build does not even have vigor/rally heals which you need for stamina builds.

If wards were stamina based, then maybe it would be viable, but since it costs magic.

This build is simply not viable. You'd get crushed in PvP.

It's only good for aoe solo farming easy mobs. Heck even in this video he almost died to 3 mobs and the guy probably has like 300 champ pts that he doens't tell you about.

prove me wrong and show me a 1vX PvP video and I'll take it all back.

Xael

bowmanz607 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/3PnyuqXliOQ

before you guys start asking for more stam sorc changes take some time and check this out. this build also does not include the new stam recovery passive.

5k weapon damage, 35k stamina and with recovery buff would be about 1200 recovery. Also, utilizes mostly class abilities. So ya I think they will be fine. Now before you start yelling "ya but its deltia and we all cant be that good." It is a pts build and with the high damage and stamina amount you can easily trade that off for more recovery and change things accordingly to tailor your playstyle. all of the tools are there.

This is a joke right?

"Yeah but it's deltia we can't be all that good"? This guy changes characters and builds the way most people change their socks. This build is really not that good and it's actually horrible for PvP.

Ok first off, the screencap with the 5k (actually 4891 with Major Brutality and Molag Kena buff) is with dual wield and 4 sorc abilities, regarding DW he has one ability, Steel Tornado... lol. You can tell it's the DW bar because he has over 40% crit due to the Evil Hunter being slotted. Back on point, this bar is just aoe spam for trash pve mobs. Even the other bar is not much better. Also his stamina recovery is pretty crappy considering the buff to the passive...

To do what he did you bloat your bars with things that you not only don't need but stuff that makes you combat ineffective in PvP. I mean for crying out loud he has Streak, Overload, Dark Deal, Bound Armaments, and Thundering Presence on his DW bar. This is laughable. But yes, stats are achievable when you skill bloat your bars with otherwise ineffective stuff that makes you under perform.

Maybe before you caution us Vet Stam Sorcs you should take some time and understand exactly what we are asking for and why.

Emma_Overload

bowmanz607 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/3PnyuqXliOQ

before you guys start asking for more stam sorc changes take some time and check this out. this build also does not include the new stam recovery passive.

5k weapon damage, 35k stamina and with recovery buff would be about 1200 recovery. Also, utilizes mostly class abilities. So ya I think they will be fine. Now before you start yelling "ya but its deltia and we all cant be that good." It is a pts build and with the high damage and stamina amount you can easily trade that off for more recovery and change things accordingly to tailor your playstyle. all of the tools are there.

I'm glad he mentioned Dark Deal first, because it really IS a game changer for Sorcs, although not too many people are talking about it yet. Being able to recover Stamina AND Health right after a roll dodge is huge.

Cillion3117

I like pie...

twistedmonk

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I'm glad he mentioned Dark Deal first, because it really IS a game changer for Sorcs, although not too many people are talking about it yet. Being able to recover Stamina AND Health right after a roll dodge is huge.

You already have Dark Deal, it just got buffed is all.

Dark Deal (Dark Exchange morph): Increased the amount of stamina restored by this ability by 50%.
Dark Exchange:

Added a new animation that better supports your movement during combat.
This ability now has a cast time; you can move at normal speed while casting.

However, you have such a small magic pool, you aren't going to be able to use it very often. I see it more for PvE raids and very situational in PvP, but it also takes up a slot on your already precious hotbar.....

the joys of only having to keep buffs on both toolbars ...

bowmanz607

Again, it was meant to show off all the stamina based abilties that will help sorcs. And yes he has 30o champ points. I said it is a pts build. The avg for champ points is getting up there. 300 is closing in on being about the avg. And yes ofcourse I know it was with buffs, but during battle you should be keeping ur buffs up. Again I was using this as a baseline. I said you could easily change this around to increase recovery and all that good stuff. Or subtract a skill he has for another dps ability. As for not having a sheild, get over it. Your defense should come from dodge, bolt, and armor and spell resist like other stam builds. A sheild that scales off of Stamina would be op. It is meant to help magicka users in robes.

FENGRUSH

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Again, it was meant to show off all the stamina based abilties that will help sorcs. And yes he has 30o champ points. I said it is a pts build. The avg for champ points is getting up there. 300 is closing in on being about the avg. And yes ofcourse I know it was with buffs, but during battle you should be keeping ur buffs up. Again I was using this as a baseline. I said you could easily change this around to increase recovery and all that good stuff. Or subtract a skill he has for another dps ability. As for not having a sheild, get over it. Your defense should come from dodge, bolt, and armor and spell resist like other stam builds. A sheild that scales off of Stamina would be op. It is meant to help magicka users in robes.

As the others said - this video doesnt really show anything. It looks like one of my PVE builds with the PTS buffs included. But thats all it is, a PVE build.

Step into cyro with that and youre going to have a bad time. What is it a baseline to? How quickly you die when you max out damage?

Xael

I don't even know what to say at this point.
You have dudes posting who understand Sorcs and Stamina Sorcs at that, then you have a ton of other people posting who have no idea whats going on but need to give their 2 cents regardless. Ah yes, the endless cycle.

twistedmonk

My issue with stamina sorc changes is that of synergy.

They added weapon damage to Expert Mage, but most of the sorcerer skills are magic based, not stamina.

• Expert Mage: This passive now grants 1/2% weapon damage per Sorcerer ability slotted in addition to its previous effects.

It seems their direction is to have magic-based characters used the class skill lines and stamina-based characters use weapon skills and buffs/passives from their class lines.

So the changes like Expert Mage don't synergize with that approach as stamina users use weapons skills and most of the sorc skills are magic.

SturgeHammer

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Jesus... ANOTHER one of these threads today?

Did it ever occur to wannabe Stamina Sorcs that a damage morph is USELESS until you have a way to stay alive? Sorcs would be SO much better off with a Stamina scaled morph of Conjured Ward than a Stamina Crystal Frag.

Your idea of a Stamina Sorc: Shielded by crappy 6K Ward while futzing with unreliable, RNG-based Crystal Frag proc.

My idea of a Stamina Sorc: Shielded by awesome 18K Ward while spamming dependable Wrecking Blow or Snipe.

My Stamina Sorc would an unkillable monster versus your half-baked Stamfail Sorc.

The WHOLE POINT of a Stamina Sorc, in my opinion, is having access to all the cool Stamina based weapon lines... but you guys don't care at all about that, LOL. All you want to do is replicate the gimmicky pray-for-procs playstyle invented by Magicka Sorcs because we don't have a spammable class damage spell, and the Destro staff spells are so weak.

I am much happier with my Stam sorc using mobility as its main line of defense. I would much rather have more speed than an 18k shield. I do agree one of the coolest aspects of Stam Sorc using weapon feats.


That being said, I think a cool and unique passive that would benefit stam sorcs is one that gives 1%/1.25% bonus to all move speed per stamina costing ability slotted. ZOS can tack it right on to the energized passive. That way a stam sorc running 4 weapon feats gets a solid 5% move speed increase.