Guardian of what?

Enodoc

nine9six wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Collins6542 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Collins6542 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Oh and those who are actually arguing that the words "earth" and "sun" shouldn't be used in TES games should ALSO be arguing that they shouldn't be speaking English.

I agree with OP, to a degree... The Guardian of Nirn would be correct in the sense that it's the Guardian of the "element" nirn. However, I think many people would kind of lose the translation and view it as a literal "Guardian of (the whole planet) Nirn". Which would leave many scratching their heads wondering where this *** has been throughout the series' history.

I don't think the residents of the planet Nirn would refer to (this element) as "Earth" since that's a word *we* use on Earth...and this fantasy Universe doesn't take place there.

But why would they name the element after the planet? If it's the element of natural substance, they are equally likely to name it after the natural laws, and in their universe, the laws of nature are based on the word earth, not the word nirn.

For us, we relate natural substance to our own planet because at the time it was the only thing we had knowledge and reference of. So Guardian of Substsnce became guardian of Earth because earth was natural substance. It would be reasonable to assume that on Nirn, their only reference to Naturlal Substsnce would be Nirn. Nirn is all they have knowledge on and reference at the time. So to assume we progressed the same way in the aspect of early development of sciences, the philosopher who suggested the idea of elements would have more than likely referred to the element of natural substance as Nirn due to Nirn being his only point of reference.

But Nirn without the Earthbones is insubstantial; the Earthbones were required to give the concept of Nirn substance, so if the philosopher was looking for an element of substance, he'd choose a derivation of Earthbones, the cause of natural substance on Nirn.

From my understanding of Elder Scrolls lore is that the Earth Bones were actually the distant descendants of the Aedra who walked Tamriel, as well as the ancestors of men and mer. I believe they were also called the Ehlnofey.

Indeed, so in Tamrielic, you would name the element of substance "earth" after the Tamrielic word "Earthbones", being those who caused the creation of natural substance. In another language, such as Chimeris, you'd possibly call the element "Ehlnovir" after their word for the Progenitors of Substance (Ehlnofey).

nine9six wrote: »

Earth is our word for our planet its element. Nirn would logically be their word for their planet and element.

Nirn is their word for their planet, indeed, but our planet Earth inherently has substance, which is why our element has the same name as the planet. Nirn has no substance without the Earthbones, so their word for the element of substance would logically be earth.

So then the word should be "Nirnbones". "Earthbones" is everything I already explained.

That's a different argument that you could extend to "why is Morrowind called Morrowind" and "why are Aedra called Aedra", as we have now reached the source point of etymology. Earthbones is the name they gave to the creators of the laws of nature, just as Nirn is the name they gave to the planetary creation concept. They could have named the laws of nature Kumquat and still called the planet Nirn; in which case, you'd end up with the Guardian of the Kumquat.

Collins6542

Enodoc wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Collins6542 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Collins6542 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Oh and those who are actually arguing that the words "earth" and "sun" shouldn't be used in TES games should ALSO be arguing that they shouldn't be speaking English.

I agree with OP, to a degree... The Guardian of Nirn would be correct in the sense that it's the Guardian of the "element" nirn. However, I think many people would kind of lose the translation and view it as a literal "Guardian of (the whole planet) Nirn". Which would leave many scratching their heads wondering where this *** has been throughout the series' history.

I don't think the residents of the planet Nirn would refer to (this element) as "Earth" since that's a word *we* use on Earth...and this fantasy Universe doesn't take place there.

But why would they name the element after the planet? If it's the element of natural substance, they are equally likely to name it after the natural laws, and in their universe, the laws of nature are based on the word earth, not the word nirn.

For us, we relate natural substance to our own planet because at the time it was the only thing we had knowledge and reference of. So Guardian of Substsnce became guardian of Earth because earth was natural substance. It would be reasonable to assume that on Nirn, their only reference to Naturlal Substsnce would be Nirn. Nirn is all they have knowledge on and reference at the time. So to assume we progressed the same way in the aspect of early development of sciences, the philosopher who suggested the idea of elements would have more than likely referred to the element of natural substance as Nirn due to Nirn being his only point of reference.

But Nirn without the Earthbones is insubstantial; the Earthbones were required to give the concept of Nirn substance, so if the philosopher was looking for an element of substance, he'd choose a derivation of Earthbones, the cause of natural substance on Nirn.

From my understanding of Elder Scrolls lore is that the Earth Bones were actually the distant descendants of the Aedra who walked Tamriel, as well as the ancestors of men and mer. I believe they were also called the Ehlnofey.

Indeed, so in Tamrielic, you would name the element of substance "earth" after the Tamrielic word "Earthbones", being those who caused the creation of natural substance. In another language, such as Chimeris, you'd possibly call the element "Ehlnovir" after their word for the Progenitors of Substance (Ehlnofey).

nine9six wrote: »

Earth is our word for our planet its element. Nirn would logically be their word for their planet and element.

Nirn is their word for their planet, indeed, but our planet Earth inherently has substance, which is why our element has the same name as the planet. Nirn has no substance without the Earthbones, so their word for the element of substance would logically be earth.

So then the word should be "Nirnbones". "Earthbones" is everything I already explained.

That's a different argument that you could extend to "why is Morrowind called Morrowind" and "why are Aedra called Aedra", as we have now reached the source point of etymology. Earthbones is the name they gave to the creators of the laws of nature, just as Nirn is the name they gave to the planetary creation concept. They could have named the laws of nature Kumquat and still called the planet Nirn; in which case, you'd end up with the Guardian of the Kumquat.

Pretty sure "guardian of kumquat" is an adult movie title, and if not, it needs to be.