Thank you again for the no stamina regen while blocking

Vatter

title says it all. I just wanted to re-iterate that there are ALOT of people who are very appreciative of this change and hope to see it make it to live. Please don't fold to the threads that want it restored. Again, thank you.

Darnathian

What's your class?

Vatter

Darnathian wrote: »

What's your class?

magicka templar

amasuriel

So let me guess, as a PvP DPS who has never PvE tanked, you think this is the greatest? What a well thought out post addressing a complex issue.

Wing

we got nothing in return for the stamina regen while blocking nerf, it was not a rebalance or shift in power, it was simply taking something we had away and giving nothing to us in return.

human beings do not like losing things, especially for nothing at all. research in things like Heuristics and various psychological theories prove this, its just the way we humans are.

anyone who supports this nerf has ulterior motives behind it and is getting something out of it. anything from sucking up to ZoS, to Epeen (I can tank under this change you just need to be as good as me) to PvP players glad a rock they could not break before is getting removed, to players that don't tank who simply have no idea what they are talking about, and finally masochists who just like pain and punishment.

I could write a wall of text detailing all the problems with it but I really have better things to do and at this point I think ZoS just does not give a crap anymore.

sabresandiego_ESO

Wing wrote: »

we got nothing in return for the stamina regen while blocking nerf, it was not a rebalance or shift in power, it was simply taking something we had away and giving nothing to us in return.

human beings do not like losing things, especially for nothing at all. research in things like Heuristics and various psychological theories prove this, its just the way we humans are.

anyone who supports this nerf has ulterior motives behind it and is getting something out of it. anything from sucking up to ZoS, to Epeen (I can tank under this change you just need to be as good as me) to PvP players glad a rock they could not break before is getting removed, to players that don't tank who simply have no idea what they are talking about, and finally masochists who just like pain and punishment.

I could write a wall of text detailing all the problems with it but I really have better things to do and at this point I think ZoS just does not give a crap anymore.

Why are you arguing for the game to be easier? I play a tank too, this is the best change ever made to the game. There was nothing more dumb than holding down block forever in PVP or PVE. Even endless dodge rolling and bolt escape spam was not as ridiculous and mindless and just blocking forever. It needed to be changed. Learn to adapt to an improved game.

Darnathian

Of course he has a motive. Not one of them that thinks this is a good idea explained why the perma blocking style is an issue. We literally just take a little longer to be killed

So I ask again WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM?

Ferretstalker

Darnathian wrote: »

Of course he has a motive. Not one of them that thinks this is a good idea explained why the perma blocking style is an issue. We literally just take a little longer to be killed

So I ask again WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM?

Glass cannons couldn't roflstomp tank builds in Cyrodiil, as it should have been. The fact that this will heavily change the PvE gameplay without any sort of balancing to keep tanking fun is still concerning to me.

I look forward to learning how to tank again this coming month, but if it requires a Templar to feed me stamina just to remain viable I'm going to be a little upset.

Duukar

Did you see the new heavy set bonuses? I think they look great and really buff up a PvE tank who uses them.

ZoM_Head

Vatter wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

What's your class?

magicka templar

I would love to see you do vdsa, AA hard mode (tank all 3-4 axes) and SO (hard and normal mode) as a magicka templar "tank".

Personally i am 50-50 with the no regen while blocking....my copy and past build since launch of ESO (yes a Nord stamina based Tank since day 1) is working alright...but only just.....sort of....

Yes i have tanked everything out there, back even in the days where dungeons were VR1-VR5, VR6-VR10 and hit like a truck like Spindleclutch Praxin boss was a nightmare to deal with.

Lets see, but the new set t´hat restores stamina when hit (20% chance proc) is...sorry not what i want.

There are ways to solve block casters, no regen whole blocking COULD be one answer, but maybe to those not wearing 5 pieces of heavy? i dunno...lets see how this turns out.

BrassRazoo

The change is great and makes total sense to me.

Vatter

amasuriel wrote: »

So let me guess, as a PvP DPS who has never PvE tanked, you think this is the greatest? What a well thought out post addressing a complex issue.

the hate is strong in you.....
try sword and board who tanks pts just fine.
All i had to do was change a few things. thats all.
let me guess, your someone who rolls block cast cheese mode?
It's a change that was needed in pvp. you'll adapt. its really not that hard. I believe in you.

Dracane

I fail to see the problem I've made theories when they announced this change, how it would be possible to still manage stamina quite good for tanking. And it works just fine.

Are you guys just complaining in theory, because you hear that change and don't even want to adapt. Or did you actually test it yourself ? it's undeniable, that tanking requires more skill now and more tactic. But it is NOT impossible.

And if your group does not consider helping you at Manticora or the Mage Axes, this is poor.
You are never alone in a trial and people can help you out. A Healer can shield you with ward ally or similar things to buy you time to do a heavy attack and to use your class tools to restore Stamina, a Templar can provide you with the Spear, a healer with the Master restoration staff can restore your stamina as well. Zenimax finally encurages teamplay and the useage of brain during trials.

Get creative people, figure it out and I asure, it's going to be fun. We did trials during the last update and it works perfectly.

Elijah_Crow

I tested with my toon, I tested with a VR 16 toon. Tanking is just not fun any longer. I spend most of the time being on my ass from an charged attack from an add and missing the blocks i need to block from the boss.

This change was to prevent PvP perma blocking and I completely agree that needed to be fixed. What it did however to PvE game play is horrid.

Based on these changes my gaming group is giving up group content and will most likely find something else to play.

Dracane

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I tested with my toon, I tested with a VR 16 toon. Tanking is just not fun any longer. I spend most of the time being on my ass from an charged attack from an add and missing the blocks i need to block from the boss.

This change was to prevent PvP perma blocking and I completely agree that needed to be fixed. What it did however to PvE game play is horrid.

Based on these changes my gaming group is giving up group content and will most likely find something else to play.

So sad Zenimax will revert this change because everyone is complaining and then this horrible mechanic is back.
If people want their boring pve permablocking to stay, then so be it. But then they should implement this into the battlespririt pvp buff, so that it is only active in Cyrodiil.

Probably this would be the best solution. Pve tanks don't have to adapt and can keep on doing their thing, and Cyrodiil gets the change.

olemanwinter

Vatter wrote: »

title says it all. I just wanted to re-iterate that there are ALOT of people who are very appreciative of this change and hope to see it make it to live. Please don't fold to the threads that want it restored. Again, thank you.

Title doesn't say it all. There are ALOT of people who are very upset about the change.

What I don't understand is why this subject needs 47 different threads!

Does each person who supports or rejects this idea really need to start their own thread?

Should I start one now to refute yours? This is getting absurd.

Rescorla_ESO

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

we got nothing in return for the stamina regen while blocking nerf, it was not a rebalance or shift in power, it was simply taking something we had away and giving nothing to us in return.

human beings do not like losing things, especially for nothing at all. research in things like Heuristics and various psychological theories prove this, its just the way we humans are.

anyone who supports this nerf has ulterior motives behind it and is getting something out of it. anything from sucking up to ZoS, to Epeen (I can tank under this change you just need to be as good as me) to PvP players glad a rock they could not break before is getting removed, to players that don't tank who simply have no idea what they are talking about, and finally masochists who just like pain and punishment.

I could write a wall of text detailing all the problems with it but I really have better things to do and at this point I think ZoS just does not give a crap anymore.

Why are you arguing for the game to be easier? I play a tank too, this is the best change ever made to the game. There was nothing more dumb than holding down block forever in PVP or PVE. Even endless dodge rolling and bolt escape spam was not as ridiculous and mindless and just blocking forever. It needed to be changed. Learn to adapt to an improved game.

Anything that makes the game more challenging is a change for the better. It was beyond lame that everyone could permablock. Now there is an element of skill to the ability and timing it correctly for when you need to.

Stalwart385

More support for burst builds in PvP and making me stare at my resource bar in PvE. The "challenge" it creates is not fun because it disengages you from the actual battle. Tanks not needing stam regen is silly. Change it to 50% in heavy.

xaraan

Vatter wrote: »

title says it all. I just wanted to re-iterate that there are ALOT of people who are very appreciative of this change and hope to see it make it to live. Please don't fold to the threads that want it restored. Again, thank you.

No there aren't. Stop spreading those lies!

Draehl

There is a large portion of tanks that literally want nothing more than to stand there having mobs beat on them while they take no damage. I know one guy who was a tanking god in previous MMOs but lost interest in ESO when he heard there wasn't an AOE taunt... the idea that tanks do anything besides have all the mobs attack them and do little else but cycle through defensive cooldowns/skills and that other players are somewhat responsible for their own well-being (CC, heals, movement, etc.) sounded to him as "un-fun". Well, keep playing WoW. I digress.

I think it's some tunnel vision "invincible hero" mindset that some tanks get into that keeps them from wanting to adapt in these situations. Sure, certain trial bosses in particular hit so hard that the blocking changes make no sense. Sure, it sucks to lose something and get nothing in return, but the notion that holding block all day long constituted healthy game design to me is ridiculous. Change was certainly due on this front, but Zenimax just didn't think it through all the way. That said, I feel like the aforementioned invincible hero mentality is pretty apparent in those who are making such a big fuss about this on the forum.

actosh

What suxx way more is theat they didnt raise ha values.
The new heavy sets look great on paper, but thats about it.

Personofsecrets

Draehl wrote: »

There is a large portion of tanks that literally want nothing more than to stand there having mobs beat on them while they take no damage. I know one guy who was a tanking god in previous MMOs but lost interest in ESO when he heard there wasn't an AOE taunt... the idea that tanks do anything besides have all the mobs attack them and do little else but cycle through defensive cooldowns/skills and that other players are somewhat responsible for their own well-being (CC, heals, movement, etc.) sounded to him as "un-fun". Well, keep playing WoW. I digress.

I think it's some tunnel vision "invincible hero" mindset that some tanks get into that keeps them from wanting to adapt in these situations. Sure, certain trial bosses in particular hit so hard that the blocking changes make no sense. Sure, it sucks to lose something and get nothing in return, but the notion that holding block all day long constituted healthy game design to me is ridiculous. Change was certainly due on this front, but Zenimax just didn't think it through all the way. That said, I feel like the aforementioned invincible hero mentality is pretty apparent in those who are making such a big fuss about this on the forum.

What is unhealthy about holding block?

kkampaseb17_ESO

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

There is a large portion of tanks that literally want nothing more than to stand there having mobs beat on them while they take no damage. I know one guy who was a tanking god in previous MMOs but lost interest in ESO when he heard there wasn't an AOE taunt... the idea that tanks do anything besides have all the mobs attack them and do little else but cycle through defensive cooldowns/skills and that other players are somewhat responsible for their own well-being (CC, heals, movement, etc.) sounded to him as "un-fun". Well, keep playing WoW. I digress.

I think it's some tunnel vision "invincible hero" mindset that some tanks get into that keeps them from wanting to adapt in these situations. Sure, certain trial bosses in particular hit so hard that the blocking changes make no sense. Sure, it sucks to lose something and get nothing in return, but the notion that holding block all day long constituted healthy game design to me is ridiculous. Change was certainly due on this front, but Zenimax just didn't think it through all the way. That said, I feel like the aforementioned invincible hero mentality is pretty apparent in those who are making such a big fuss about this on the forum.

What is unhealthy about holding block?

Just one comment from me on this. I don't know whether I agree with this change or whether it was the smartest decision to eliminate some problems with blockbots in Cyrodiil.

However, pressing 1 single button to eliminate completely all reflex/action-based combat is just wrong. And no....the one block-immune CC per 5-6 seconds was not enough of a reason/counter for this to stay as it is.

Darnathian

Ferretstalker wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Of course he has a motive. Not one of them that thinks this is a good idea explained why the perma blocking style is an issue. We literally just take a little longer to be killed

So I ask again WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM?

Glass cannons couldn't roflstomp tank builds in Cyrodiil, as it should have been. The fact that this will heavily change the PvE gameplay without any sort of balancing to keep tanking fun is still concerning to me.

I look forward to learning how to tank again this coming month, but if it requires a Templar to feed me stamina just to remain viable I'm going to be a little upset.

You serious? They shouldn't be able to kill a tank one on one and neither should a tank be able to kill them. That would be balance.

A tank should be able to take large amounts of damage as the focal point in the group. Just as a sorc or nb should be able to put out large amounts of damage at the risk of thier low health and a healer should heal.

But that's not what this game has. A nb is definitely vulnerable where a sorc is never threatened. They don't even have to block or dodge roll. Just full DPS and refresh shields with two buttons when they feel like it.

That is a fact. Ignore all the subterfuge sorcs are throwing around to keep their op ness. At this point whatever. It is clear they have the developers war. They can keep it. Enjoy the PVP wasteland.

Because if you are not paying attention, this is a game breaker for tanks. Read all the responses from pvpers and pvers alike. They will leave this game or theu will refill

Just like all these fotm sorcs. they have wolf pacts running around now with all sorcs. No healer. No tank. That's it.

Because the class is so cool? No. Because it is easy mode.

Swarog

Non tanks stop write false feedback. You don't even understand what are talking about.

remedios17

Swarog wrote: »

Non tanks stop write false feedback. You don't even understand what are talking about.

this 100%. a magicka templar talking about tanking? wut?
the change is plain stupid, no reason for it at all apart from pvp. if they want to do it for pvp, go on, do it, but leave pve tanks alone. if you think tanking is all about just holding one button, you are wrong. have you ever heard of taunting (multiple enemies at the time without any aoe taunt)? cc? positioning the boss? rezzing dead group members cause you are the only one left alive? roll dodging? breaking free? bashing, interrupting? some bosses, as in The Serpent, have whole routines of movements they do, its not just that I run in, put some weight on left mouse button and i can go drink a coffee...

Rinmaethodain

NO ONE EVER COMPLAINS that they successfully completed a dungeon and didnt get wiped out because tank had enough stamina to block attack coming at him, healer could focus on dungeon, not on mashing heal buttons, and group didnt get wiped out because most dangerous attack could be interrupted by tank.

The only people who support this change are obviously PVPers who are angry at tanks for being... tanky and not dying like fleas from every poke they get,
or they are seasoned players, the perfect 1% who are suprised that after year of playing game and repeating content they suddenly find it boring or easy, so in the peak of their selfishness they are supporting a change that will make content unplayable for the majority of playerbase, while they will maintain their superiority - a simple logic, they want less competition so when their

Also, a quick idea. I think ZOS should make forum accounts somehow linked to character account. So next to your post, it would display for example highest PVP rank out of all characters on account and classes of characters. A dedicated PVPer should not be allowed to complain and bash people who are against change that ruins PVE. A person who completed every dungeon 100 times + should not be allowed to complain that "old content is too easy".
A simple thing like that would reveal who actually is for this change (And then what selfish motives are driving them) and who actually cares for it and his feedback is viable.
Same should go to in game /feedback, whoever processes it should have information along the feedback, what is player profile of person who sends it.

Also PVPer taking a voice in a change that will ruin PVE detected below V who lives in his small PVP world ignoring the PVE playerbase.

Sarousse

This change is perfect. We're having a blast in PvP with the end of perma blockers.

And we've tried the change in the new dungeons : it's very manageable after a time of adaptation.

Thanks Zenimax, don't revert this change, it's perfect right now !

kkampaseb17_ESO

MaximusDargus wrote: »

The only people who support this change are obviously PVPers who are angry at tanks for being... tanky and not dying like fleas from every poke they get,
or they are seasoned players, the perfect 1% who are suprised that after year of playing game and repeating content they suddenly find it boring or easy, so in the peak of their selfishness they are supporting a change that will make content unplayable for the majority of playerbase, while they will maintain their superiority - a simple logic, they want less competition so when their

This is not it. It is far from what you describe here. You say that people that haven't played tanks shouldn't post about tanks. You obviously shouldn't post about PvP cause you clearly have absolutely no idea what it is.

asteldian

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

we got nothing in return for the stamina regen while blocking nerf, it was not a rebalance or shift in power, it was simply taking something we had away and giving nothing to us in return.

human beings do not like losing things, especially for nothing at all. research in things like Heuristics and various psychological theories prove this, its just the way we humans are.

anyone who supports this nerf has ulterior motives behind it and is getting something out of it. anything from sucking up to ZoS, to Epeen (I can tank under this change you just need to be as good as me) to PvP players glad a rock they could not break before is getting removed, to players that don't tank who simply have no idea what they are talking about, and finally masochists who just like pain and punishment.

I could write a wall of text detailing all the problems with it but I really have better things to do and at this point I think ZoS just does not give a crap anymore.

Why are you arguing for the game to be easier? I play a tank too, this is the best change ever made to the game. There was nothing more dumb than holding down block forever in PVP or PVE. Even endless dodge rolling and bolt escape spam was not as ridiculous and mindless and just blocking forever. It needed to be changed. Learn to adapt to an improved game.

Anything that makes the game more challenging is a change for the better. It was beyond lame that everyone could permablock. Now there is an element of skill to the ability and timing it correctly for when you need to.

Problem is, the level of skill is only required with some classes (Templar. And to a lesser extent Sorcs) so its only more challenging for some, people take the path of least resistance - why take a tank you need to hope has the skill to deal with the changes when you can take another class that didn't need to adapt?

Junglejim82

Adaptation eh the great answer to all gaming decisions. I'm not tanking yet but I will be soon enough. If pvp was the issue I ask this, why aren't you running a designated block breaker? In this game that's a c.c. see fear for example . Block tanks drop like stones when c.c'd