Why do you hate tanks?

Varigan

Ive tried and tried using my tank build in Imp city but due to low dps and no re-gen of stamina, I carnt make the 10% contribution on players and mobs due to the high dps of other builds. Can you not add a damage taken system for obtaining stones.
I love tanking and want to learn how to do it with no stamina re-gen, but the build to do that does no dps so i carnt do anything in the pvp area.

Halfwitte

ZOS hates tanks at the moment, because Eric Wrobel says they're not fun. They're not listening or responding to any feedback regarding their changes that are crippling tanks and ruining our fun in the name of Eric Wrobel fun and from what I saw on the Twitch feed of IC he doesn't even play a dedicated tank so there you go. Download the PTS and post on their feedback section so your opinion has at least a chance in a frozen over hot place of being heard. Here on the forums no one of importance is listening.

CP5

Just hope they care enough to explain why this change is so 'amazing' on eso live tomorrow.

david.haypreub18_ESO

You can now put tanks in the same file as Argonians, Heavy Armor, and Templars. I call this file, 'Things everyone except ZOS recognizes need fixing.'

OrphanHelgen

What I think is strange, is why they needed to nerf tanks in the first place. Almost every class and race as magicka, can equip a resto staff and easy heal a veteran dungeon. So there is lack og tanks. You cant level up from level 1 to vr14 as tank spec, because you wont do dmg to mobs and quests take forever. So no doubt that there is hard to find tanks these days. So why making it worse?

Rosveen

Because blocking isn't fun, haven't you heard? Eric Wrobel knows what's fun for you. Be a good boy and don't argue.

Alcast

I have encountered several permablockers and they had no issue dealing with the crippled dmg inc.

Rinmaethodain

#DPSmasterRace

They fight for their superiority. They have ZOS support. When ZOS is playing live all they do DPS. They love DPS they will never let them be hurt. And DPSes are exploiting it.

ZOS makes stupid decision to nerf the very basic behind being tank and thus cripples every PVE tank in ESO. What are player responses? DPSes cheering "yay L2P, i never tanked but you have to adapt" while behind scenes they are just happy that they will now dont have to deal that much with pesky tanks in PVP that dared to live longer than any other class.


Now someone suggest as ridicolous change as zos "0 stamina regen while blocking" aimed at tanks, to make "DPSing not boring and more fun". What are the responses? Same dpses suddenly say:

"People who actually know how to DPS have fun doing it. Please ZOS do not in any way try to make DPS more fun like new tanking. We beg you. To much fun than some of us could ever take. Think about . Some people here are relatively well aged. Do not make this DPS more exciting like the new tanking.. It may just be to much for the heart of some people."

"Additionally most dps will use a light or partly charged heavy attack after every skill they use, so no need to encourage that even more."

"For somone who is GOOD at dps, it is alot of fun. Between managing your resources, staying out of red circles/cones/donuts, positioning yourself, dodge and blocking and bashing when necessary, and all while trying to keep your buffs and rotation up? Lots of fun! Most are just to lazy to manage all that. "

DOUBLE STANDARDS, HYPOCRISY

To bad ZOS supports this. When ZOS makes change that ruins PVE tanking, using false arguments and fake excuses, every DPS supports this and ZOS is happy they are getting false feedback.

Wing

I have given up on blocking actually, im s--t outa luck on doing some endgame content because ALL content in this ENTIRE game since its inception was designed with the ability to block in mind. but I just cannot stand the new way you have to play to be able to make it effective, and that is pretty much ONLY blocking and using your taunt sparingly and not being able to do anything else except stare at you stamina bar. its very much not fun and super F'ing boring.

Eric claimed they were fixing a problem and making it more fun, in fact they have forced everyone further into the meta of just stand there and hold block and only taunt because you dare not do anything else.

I accidently broke free on the pts just as a natural reaction and instantly was like "F--K!" because it killed stamina that I was counting on for something else.

its not fun, its a stupid hassle, it shoves people further into the massive stamina bar / cost reduction / don't use any of your resources for your team meta.

right now were simply looking at dungeons and seeing if we can do them without a tank because at this point its a stupid hassle that is just slowing us down to try and make it work.

Wing

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Now someone suggest as ridicolous change as zos "0 stamina regen while blocking" aimed at tanks, to make "DPSing not boring and more fun". What are the responses? Same dpses suddenly say:

"People who actually know how to DPS have fun doing it. Please ZOS do not in any way try to make DPS more fun like new tanking. We beg you. To much fun than some of us could ever take. Think about . Some people here are relatively well aged. Do not make this DPS more exciting like the new tanking.. It may just be to much for the heart of some people."

"Additionally most dps will use a light or partly charged heavy attack after every skill they use, so no need to encourage that even more."

"For somone who is GOOD at dps, it is alot of fun. Between managing your resources, staying out of red circles/cones/donuts, positioning yourself, dodge and blocking and bashing when necessary, and all while trying to keep your buffs and rotation up? Lots of fun! Most are just to lazy to manage all that. "

DOUBLE STANDARDS, HYPOCRISY

To bad ZOS supports this. When ZOS makes change that ruins PVE tanking, using false arguments and fake excuses, every DPS supports this and ZOS is happy they are getting false feedback.

I must admit I read that thread and was like "well, well ,well, well, well, look what we have here"

some funny stuff, tanks are boring and only hold down block, but DPS are managing a nasa flight control computer. . .sure.

remedios17

Wing wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Now someone suggest as ridicolous change as zos "0 stamina regen while blocking" aimed at tanks, to make "DPSing not boring and more fun". What are the responses? Same dpses suddenly say:

"People who actually know how to DPS have fun doing it. Please ZOS do not in any way try to make DPS more fun like new tanking. We beg you. To much fun than some of us could ever take. Think about . Some people here are relatively well aged. Do not make this DPS more exciting like the new tanking.. It may just be to much for the heart of some people."

"Additionally most dps will use a light or partly charged heavy attack after every skill they use, so no need to encourage that even more."

"For somone who is GOOD at dps, it is alot of fun. Between managing your resources, staying out of red circles/cones/donuts, positioning yourself, dodge and blocking and bashing when necessary, and all while trying to keep your buffs and rotation up? Lots of fun! Most are just to lazy to manage all that. "

DOUBLE STANDARDS, HYPOCRISY

To bad ZOS supports this. When ZOS makes change that ruins PVE tanking, using false arguments and fake excuses, every DPS supports this and ZOS is happy they are getting false feedback.

I must admit I read that thread and was like "well, well ,well, well, well, look what we have here"

some funny stuff, tanks are boring and only hold down block, but DPS are managing a nasa flight control computer. . .sure.

rofl so true.
dpsing is like quantum physics y'all! cause it's so hard to push the same buttons and do the same circulations over and over and over and over!
(also dont forget the compulsory DPS counter flaunt after every. single. boss.)

Winterpsy

Guess we'll see what will happen.

If the effects of the new patch will cripple tanks so bad, that suddenly the tanking role vanishes from game, I am pretty sure the company will rebalance the issues. But I have trust in them. They are testing, have players testing too, and have ideas how to make the game more fun.

AngryNord

Winterpsy wrote: »

I am pretty sure the company will rebalance the issues.

Rune_Relic

The problem is being able to tank AND dps at the same time.
Whether is be magicka dps builds with endless resource (on hit) who can afford shields
Whether it be stamina dps builds with endless resource (on hit) who can afford shields

Tanks don't get any comparable stamina on hit unless they do damage.
Tanks don't do damage....they suck it up.
Hence TANK.
As in built like a TANK.
Like the armour plated thing that rolled across Europe and could withstand extreme damage TANK.

They only way to get the NB tank to work due to no regen was stamina/magicka regen on damage proc skills using caltrops or similar.
OR using seriously OP regen drinks making every ability cheap (DPS & Tank).
This didn't mean TANK was viable... it meant you had to find broken ways to make it sort of work.
No stamina = No Block = No tank

Winterpsy

And yeah. IF you decide you will be the TANK say goodbye to damage. It has nothing to do with no patch. Its a concept.

But you have something else for instance as a DK: Crowd Control. Yummy.

Wing

AngryNord wrote: »

Winterpsy wrote: »

I am pretty sure the company will rebalance the issues.

I don't think a lot of people here will know who that is XD

AngryNord

Wing wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

Winterpsy wrote: »

I am pretty sure the company will rebalance the issues.

I don't think a lot of people here will know who that is XD

Those who DO know should take the reference within seconds though :P

Darlon

AngryNord wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

Winterpsy wrote: »

I am pretty sure the company will rebalance the issues.

I don't think a lot of people here will know who that is XD

Those who DO know should take the reference within seconds though :P

yup

RoamingRiverElk

It's not like every PvPer wants this change either, it's weird whenever someone implies that the PvP community just all looooove this.

DKs and templars should have the option to block since they don't have escape mechanics in the form of cloak or bolt escape. Blocking ALREADY without this nerf means that you have to invest in it, thus reducing some other aspect of your build, such as being able to deal damage.

Add to that the insane fire damage you take as a vampire currently on the PTS... with vampirism being pretty much a must for DKs and templars if they intend to be outnumbered at all...

With this change, doing a blocking build for a DK just isn't really worth it in PvP in general. Well, luckily I have a sorc and a nb... Too bad I actually would also like to play my DK. I just don't understand how they can.not.see. how bad this change is for magicka DKs and templars in PvP.

ToRelax

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

It's not like every PvPer wants this change either, it's weird whenever someone implies that the PvP community just all looooove this.

DKs and templars should have the option to block since they don't have escape mechanics in the form of cloak or bolt escape. Blocking ALREADY without this nerf means that you have to invest in it, thus reducing some other aspect of your build, such as being able to deal damage.

Add to that the insane fire damage you take as a vampire currently on the PTS... with vampirism being pretty much a must for DKs and templars if they intend to be outnumbered at all...

With this change, doing a blocking build for a DK just isn't really worth it in PvP in general. Well, luckily I have a sorc and a nb... Too bad I actually would also like to play my DK. I just don't understand how they can.not.see. how bad this change is for magicka DKs and templars in PvP.

Because they don't intend to be outnumbered at all...

AhPook_Is_Here

Personally with a main as a tank I think they love tanks. Think about how selective a good tank will now be able to be about their groups? I will be able to pick the very best player from my guilds to run with, and will never have to run with a bad group again. I will be able to demand that any dps in my group be able to turn a 25k parse. 25k+ DPS or GTFO! Don't bring your stamlar because i will be kiting.

Swarog

ZENIMAX you have to speak with us. Stop ignoring us. It may become mutual.

Sensesfail13

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Personally with a main as a tank I think they love tanks. Think about how selective a good tank will now be able to be about their groups? I will be able to pick the very best player from my guilds to run with, and will never have to run with a bad group again. I will be able to demand that any dps in my group be able to turn a 25k parse. 25k+ DPS or GTFO! Don't bring your stamlar because i will be kiting.

You sound like a horrible person and I wouldnt choose you as my tank even if I did run dps.

cjthibs

MaximusDargus wrote: »

#DPSmasterRace

They fight for their superiority. They have ZOS support. When ZOS is playing live all they do DPS. They love DPS they will never let them be hurt. And DPSes are exploiting it.

ZOS makes stupid decision to nerf the very basic behind being tank and thus cripples every PVE tank in ESO. What are player responses? DPSes cheering "yay L2P, i never tanked but you have to adapt" while behind scenes they are just happy that they will now dont have to deal that much with pesky tanks in PVP that dared to live longer than any other class.


Now someone suggest as ridicolous change as zos "0 stamina regen while blocking" aimed at tanks, to make "DPSing not boring and more fun". What are the responses? Same dpses suddenly say:

"People who actually know how to DPS have fun doing it. Please ZOS do not in any way try to make DPS more fun like new tanking. We beg you. To much fun than some of us could ever take. Think about . Some people here are relatively well aged. Do not make this DPS more exciting like the new tanking.. It may just be to much for the heart of some people."

"Additionally most dps will use a light or partly charged heavy attack after every skill they use, so no need to encourage that even more."

"For somone who is GOOD at dps, it is alot of fun. Between managing your resources, staying out of red circles/cones/donuts, positioning yourself, dodge and blocking and bashing when necessary, and all while trying to keep your buffs and rotation up? Lots of fun! Most are just to lazy to manage all that. "

DOUBLE STANDARDS, HYPOCRISY

To bad ZOS supports this. When ZOS makes change that ruins PVE tanking, using false arguments and fake excuses, every DPS supports this and ZOS is happy they are getting false feedback.

Ah yes. You've discovered our vast DPS Master Race Conspiracy. Curses! Foiled again.
Allow me to quote from our manifesto.

"1. Anyone who does not play a DPS-oriented character is the enemy! They pose threats innumerable to our sacred damage numbers and we must use all underhanded tactics available to us to ensure their demise.

2. Any nerf that doesn't affect us is a good one! Forget that we need tanks and healers to complete trials and dungeons. This is all in your head! Our superior bursts will destroy all!

3. Our close relationship with ZOS will ensure that healers and tanks everywhere are smote upon the Mundus! Nurture this relationship at all costs! Never let on that ZOS and the DPS Master Race are of one mind!"

Now that the great @MaximusDargus has blown the lid on us, I suppose the game is up. We will immediately disband...or will we? *cue ominous music*

RoamingRiverElk

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Personally with a main as a tank I think they love tanks. Think about how selective a good tank will now be able to be about their groups? I will be able to pick the very best player from my guilds to run with, and will never have to run with a bad group again. I will be able to demand that any dps in my group be able to turn a 25k parse. 25k+ DPS or GTFO! Don't bring your stamlar because i will be kiting.

You sound like a horrible person and I wouldnt choose you as my tank even if I did run dps.

I think the poster was being a tiny bit... sarcastic.

Leonis

I think it's because of dps and healers.

If tanks are too strong, healers start to sleep and feel they are useless.

Some good healers might start to dps but not all because dps will start to think they don't have to be carefull because they can be healed since the tank doesn't need any heal.

If tanks are too strong, Dps will just dps, they will just look at the number of damage they can do. They will miss a lot of skill (cc, root, dodge, kite, ...) since the tank can take all the mobs. They will forget how to focus, just aoe and cry if the mobs are not packed (dk will become a must have since he can grap). If one dps or the tank use a cc, it'll break because of the aoe. cc will be useless.

But if the tank is weak, they will have a lot more fun (even if the tank become useless and cry : it doesn't matter : in a group, there are 4 players and just one tank).

Solution : all tanks should switch dps or healer ! every one will have fun.

Darnathian

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

It's not like every PvPer wants this change either, it's weird whenever someone implies that the PvP community just all looooove this.

DKs and templars should have the option to block since they don't have escape mechanics in the form of cloak or bolt escape. Blocking ALREADY without this nerf means that you have to invest in it, thus reducing some other aspect of your build, such as being able to deal damage.

Add to that the insane fire damage you take as a vampire currently on the PTS... with vampirism being pretty much a must for DKs and templars if they intend to be outnumbered at all...

With this change, doing a blocking build for a DK just isn't really worth it in PvP in general. Well, luckily I have a sorc and a nb... Too bad I actually would also like to play my DK. I just don't understand how they can.not.see. how bad this change is for magicka DKs and templars in PvP.

You hit the nail on the head. No escape. No blocky. We ded. But we do have some great DOTs. Yay!

We will be some good looking blood bags for target practice though. They will get so excited when they see a DK or Temp log in. Picture a world with no humans and only vampires. Then all of a sudden they see one. They will slaughter him.

Vaelen

So from now on in SO, guilds will kite the Mantikora instead of stacking on a tank and in AA they will kite the axes instead of a tank blocking them in the corner, GG, Fun and Chaotic - Eric Wrobel's way!

Anxileel

Eric Wrobel the enemy of Tanks everywhere.

F7sus4

If anyone of you plays board games, you probably know the term "eurogame" vs "ameritrash" and what are the key features of both. ESO's mechanic is pretty much the second one with all its shine and flaws. Trying to get fully balanced "eurogame"-like mechanic out of "ameritrash" is simply not possible. What you can do it to limit what's broken, but it will never reach point-to-point balance executed in different ways. (But since ZOS didn't hear that anyway, it's just another blahblahblah in the internet.)

Alucardo

Swarog wrote: »

ZENIMAX you have to speak with us. Stop ignoring us. It may become mutual.

I guess you could say they have blocked you