Flying Blade Discussion

J2JMC

For anyone who has experimented, how do you feel about the flying blade buff in pts? Personally, while I like ZOS's intentions, I'm just not sure how great it will be. As it stands, I still feel the "obvious" choice for those looking to receive a major brutality buff from a weapon skill is to still take rally because of it's heal. If this was just simply an overall buff to the dual wield class then I would agree the purpose was served. However, considering this buff seems to be a direct response to rally, I do not believe it satisfies that need. With that being the case, I suggest replacing flying blade with a self-buff altogether.

The skill

Fatal Fury
Your hatred for your enemies grants you major brutality, increasing your weapon damage by 20%.(Twenty-one(21) seconds at rank I. Increasing to rank IV would raise the duration to 33 seconds. Cost x amount of stamina.)

Morphs

Eviscerate or Bloody Rampage
Your hatred for you enemies grants you major brutality, increasing your weapon damage by 20%. While active, increase bonus critical strike damage by 7%(10% at rank IV)

Vengeance
Your hatred for you enemies grants you major brutality, increasing your weapon damage by 20%.While active, increase magicka recovery by 8(10 maybe?)%( reduced stamina cost at rank IV)

Explaining the morphs

So first, the names, as they are clearly he most important part of the abilities . They are not set in stone obviously, but with words like rend, tornado, and deadly popping up, I figured this skill would be the ultimate reflection of the ferocity and violence that seems to a common them among the names. Oddly enough, imo, hidden blade strays the most from the theme. Eviscerate/Rampage is supposed express the desire to absolute decimate the opponent. Just ruthless aggression(possible name?) without regard for oneself or others. In Vengeance's case, I decided that word was a good way to convey the sense of a cold and calculated defeat of the opponent. Since magicka recovery usage is tied to ideas of intellect in this game, I figured a name that showed thought was involved was appropriate.

As for what the skills provide aside from the main buff, Eviscerate was designed to be a straight up opposite to rally. Where rally gives you more survivability, eviscerate gives you more potential damage. I was also toying around with ideas of adding a healing debuff to the user in exchange for more bonus damage or converting the damage to a passive crit chance boost while ability is slotted(with dual wield equipped). With Vengeance, magicka builds who would like to dual wield were the primary targets, but magicka recovery also helps out stam builds so it's a win for everybody. Hybrid users probably benefiting the most.

Afterthought

Overall these are just ideas to be tweaked, completely changed, or disregarded(hopefully after some discussion) in hopes to bring major brutality to the dw in a way that users will enjoy. My biggest concern is for people who truly like flying blade as an ability. They are the ones I'd like to hear from the most as it effects them the most. Would you mind this replacement? Do you have alternative ways to get the brutality buff out of combat without removing flying blade? Those are just a few questions targeted at that specific group of people. For everyone else, how do you feel about the above mentioned skill and more important what do you suggest in order to make something like this make it to the live server. Truthfully, the only thing I'm adamant about is it being a self-targeted buff that can be utilized out of combat. Collecting my thoughts at the end here, I also realize this could replace deadly cloak while keeping hidden blade the way it is on live.

Hopefully @ZOS_RichLambert and Eric Wrobel see this.

Thank you for taking the time to read .

Domander

It's great if you want this buff, but don't want to run 2h, and have no other way to get it other than potions.

Alcast

Flying blade does incredible dmg, why would you want to replace it?

The other morph of it needs to be buffed, Shrouded daggers is so bad compared to steeltornado, one of the useless morphs NOBODY uses.

Xsorus

Shrouded dagger needs to become the dual wield charge skill. That will all classes can have access to a charge with dual wield.

J2JMC

Alcast wrote: »

Flying blade does incredible dmg, why would you want to replace it?

The other morph of it needs to be buffed, Shrouded daggers is so bad compared to steeltornado, one of the useless morphs NOBODY uses.

Yeah I was thinking that about shrouded daggers as well. The thing is would adding the major brutality on top of the damage it does just for being near an opponent be a little much?

Jar_Ek

Personally would prefer it if flying blade was a gap closer or had a gap closing morph and blade cloak provides the brutality buff and a decent protection buff (without the weak dot if need be) so that it mitigated all damage to some degree.

Alcast

Twin Slashes:
Rending Slash - Very good DoT.
Blood Craze - Useless morph, nobody uses it.

Flurry:
Rapid Strikes - 1.3s is too long of a cast time and the dmg is mehhhhh
Blinding Flurry - Blinding what? Never seens someone using this morph bc its 100% useless.

Whirlwind:
Whirling Blades - Range is too small compared to Steeltornado.
Steeltornado - Most OP AoE morph in the game. 12m Range

Blade Cloak:
Quick Cloak - Very decent skill reducing AoE dmg by 20% and nice speedbuff for 4s. (Should put Brutality buff here)
Deadly Cloak - Never used it tho i heard the free knife does quite some dmg. Never seen sb using this morph tho.

Hidden Blade:
Shrouded Daggers - This is a Joke of a morph, AoE Cone, less range and less dmg as Steeltornado, NOBODY ever will use this morph.
Flying Blade - Best Single Target dmg skill in Dual Wield Skilltree


I guess you could say that DUALWIELD has a morph issue as there is basically only 1 Good option of Morphs aviable atm.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

IxSTALKERxI

Alcast wrote: »

Shrouded Daggers - This is a Joke of a morph, AoE Cone, less range and less dmg as Steeltornado, NOBODY ever will use this morph.

They actually changed this ability, it's no longer a cone. It bounces to 2 nearby enemies similar to silver shards. It does slightly less damage on the initial target then flying blade and has less range. One cool application would be In the IC sewers if you had 3 enemies in one of those s bends and only 1 was visible you could spam it at that guy and it would go around the corner and it the other 2 but that's very situational. If it did a little more damage people might choose it over flying blade.

DDuke

While I don't agree that Flying Blade should be replaced, I do agree with the assessment that it still isn't on par with Momentum. Here is a quick comparison between the two:

Flying Blade

• You need to hit a target to get the Major Brutality.
• Lasts only 10 seconds.
• Deals good damage at ranged distance. For melee, you have better options.

Rally

• Does not require you to hit a target, can be cast while sneaking.
• Lasts 33 seconds and gives you healing during the whole duration.
• Can be activated for a strong emergency heal, the only instant cast heal viable for stamina nightblades, stamina sorcs & stamina templars.

The biggest deal however is that you can activate Rally at any time for the buff, where as you need to find a target and hit him with Flying Blade to get 10 seconds of the buff.

This will still leave you dependent of Weapon Damage potions (or 2H & Rally) in order to boost your sneak attack damage, unless you're somehow able to hit a target with Flying Blade, restealth within 10 seconds & then hit him with your burst.


I think there's a couple of ways to fix this issue:

• Make Flying Blade restealth you if you hit a target while sneaking/stealthed.
• Make Flying Blade grant Major Brutality for a long duration, since pre-conditions are already harder to meet than Rally's 33 seconds of Major Brutality. E.g. 1-2 minutes, or even longer.
• Make Flying Blade passively grant you Major Brutality (similar to Camouflaged Hunter's Major Savagery). Problem here is that you'd then need to have it on your both bars to benefit from the buff.
• Give Major Brutality to the only self buff skill in Dual Wield, Blade Cloak. Note: fix Blade Cloak first, it reveals you when cast while sneaking/cloaked, and Deadly Cloak morph does not get stealth attack modifier.

silky_soft

Blood Craze - Leach/vampire all 3 stats from target

Flurry - 1s channel time
Rapid Strikes - 25% reduction in cast time, give empower
Blinding Furry - Change to Silence Strikes, silence target 4s and send target off balance 6s OR Immobilize Strike, lockdown target (like talons) 4s, disorient target 6s after effect ends

Whirling Blades - Add 5m leap forward
OPnado - Make it a projectile

Blade Cloak - Add Major Brut and Minor Brut to 5 allies

Hidden blade - Remove Major Brut, replace with Major Facture

ADarklore

silky_soft wrote: »

OPnado - Make it a projectile

So you'd take away the most beneficial skill in the DW tree and bring the wrath of every DW player down upon you? And what type of 'Tornado' is a "projectile"? It's a TORNADO because you rotate while throwing knives.

Tankqull

J2JMC wrote: »

For anyone who has experimented, how do you feel about the flying blade buff in pts? Personally, while I like ZOS's intentions, I'm just not sure how great it will be. As it stands, I still feel the "obvious" choice for those looking to receive a major brutality buff from a weapon skill is to still take rally because of it's heal. If this was just simply an overall buff to the dual wield class then I would agree the purpose was served. However, considering this buff seems to be a direct response to rally, I do not believe it satisfies that need. With that being the case, I suggest replacing flying blade with a self-buff altogether.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

the utility provided to DW by having a range option is the only reason outside of magica builds beeing provided the hihgest spelldmg option to use it at all even when adding a rally like ability no one would use DW anymore as all other abilitys are far behind 2H counterparts.
if you want to add a heal use blade cloak instead as it is completly useless in its current implementation.

J2JMC

Tankqull wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

For anyone who has experimented, how do you feel about the flying blade buff in pts? Personally, while I like ZOS's intentions, I'm just not sure how great it will be. As it stands, I still feel the "obvious" choice for those looking to receive a major brutality buff from a weapon skill is to still take rally because of it's heal. If this was just simply an overall buff to the dual wield class then I would agree the purpose was served. However, considering this buff seems to be a direct response to rally, I do not believe it satisfies that need. With that being the case, I suggest replacing flying blade with a self-buff altogether.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

the utility provided to DW by having a range option is the only reason outside of magica builds beeing provided the hihgest spelldmg option to use it at all even when adding a rally like ability no one would use DW anymore as all other abilitys are far behind 2H counterparts.
if you want to add a heal use blade cloak instead as it is completly useless in its current implementation.

Cmon bruh. I thought I stated I was not after the heal, simply a way to gain the major brutality buff without having to engage the opponent. Also, I'd really be willing to bet that the popularity in the dw tree would rise instead of fall if you replaced hidden blade with rally .However, that's irrelevant as it's not what I'm looking to do. It does seem the general consensus is adding major brutality to one of the blade cloak morphs is the better choice so I would like that to be looked at. @ZOS_RichLambert

Zanen

I'm good with flying blade the way it is, love it in fact.

If there's any problem with stamina and brutality it's that vigor is not really a replacement for the rally heal under battle spirit debuff and I still feel compelled to run 2H.

Leave brutality on flying blade, move rally to fighters guild, add a 360 degree attack w/knockdown to 2H.

Give whirling blades an 8m range.

Make everything bleed.

Docmandu

What happens if you use the new Flying Blade when you have Rally up?! Since 1 is 10s and the other 33s, I hope it doesn't overwrite Rally and removes your 20% buff after 10 seconds regardless.

dRudE

Don't understand why a ranged, instant cast, 10k damage, spamm able ability needs any buffs?

Docmandu

Make Shrouded Daggers morph pierce bubbles, keep the short range.. that would make it quite wanted

Gilvoth

i love my flying blade, i use it in every single fight.
you want something added thats fine, but dont take away skills that i use just cause you personally dont llike the skill.

Jar_Ek

Actually the best idea is to add Rally/Momentum to the Fighters guild so that it is available to all physical weapon types. Personally I would be happy with trap beast being replaced... And 2 handed could get a true aoe.
I still think that flying blade is not the right place for a brutality buff and that blade cloak is pretty dire.

DW also could do with a decent gap closer, have bleeds work on all opponents and once applied not be reduced by block or shields (but not apply to shields directly) and maybe have a shield breaker morph (deals extra damage to shields) on flying blade.

Alcast

Docmandu wrote: »

Make Shrouded Daggers morph pierce bubbles, keep the short range.. that would make it quite wanted

+

Derra

Some the suggestions in this topic are so ridiculously overpowered it makes me wonder if ppl are serious or trolling.

Flying blade recloaking you when cast from stealth?
A skill to completely bypass shields?

I can´t even...

GreenSoup2HoT

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/199217/turn-rally-into-a-fighters-guild-skill#latest

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/192722/major-brutality-should-it-be-given-to-twin-slashes-instead-of-hidden-blade#latest

I've made a couple thread's myself trying to change this flying blade stuff.

Rally is just to good. It leave's other weapon classes in the dust.

I use a Master Bow which mean's flying blade is useless to me.

Domander

The suggestions I've read in this thread, there's only a couple I would endorse. Change the multi target morph to some kind of gap closer. That morph is pretty bad, limited range, costs more, the 2 targets take half damage. It would also be nice if the buff was longer than 10 seconds

J2JMC

I think all my talk of flying blade and new abilities is covering what my true intentions were. As I said in the last paragraph of the OP, I'm simply looking for a way to earn major brutality while using dw without having to engage an opponent or slot 2h. I could care less about the heal personally. It's also why I asked how people who like the skill feel about the change as I don't experience many people who use it. Obviously there are people in this thread who like hidden blade. That's fine, but I'd rather the major brutality buff be on a different ability. Once again, specifically one that does not require engaging an opponent to activate the buff.

GreenSoup2HoT

J2JMC wrote: »

I think all my talk of flying blade and new abilities is covering what my true intentions were. As I said in the last paragraph of the OP, I'm simply looking for a way to earn major brutality while using dw without having to engage an opponent or slot 2h. I could care less about the heal personally. It's also why I asked how people who like the skill feel about the change as I don't experience many people who use it. Obviously there are people in this thread who like hidden blade. That's fine, but I'd rather the major brutality buff be on a different ability. Once again, specifically one that does not require engaging an opponent to activate the buff.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/199217/turn-rally-into-a-fighters-guild-skill#latest

Which is exactly why i think Rally should be a fighter's guild skill.

Domander

J2JMC wrote: »

I think all my talk of flying blade and new abilities is covering what my true intentions were. As I said in the last paragraph of the OP, I'm simply looking for a way to earn major brutality while using dw without having to engage an opponent or slot 2h. I could care less about the heal personally. It's also why I asked how people who like the skill feel about the change as I don't experience many people who use it. Obviously there are people in this thread who like hidden blade. That's fine, but I'd rather the major brutality buff be on a different ability. Once again, specifically one that does not require engaging an opponent to activate the buff.

Well, there's only one way to get the spell power buff before attacking without a potion, and that's be a sorc.

so....I feel like this is being greedy haha, since there are already 2 abilities that give the weapon power buff without attacking.

J2JMC

Domander wrote: »

Well, there's only one way to get the spell power buff before attacking without a potion, and that's be a sorc.

so....I feel like this is being greedy haha, since there are already 2 abilities that give the weapon power buff without attacking.

Yes, one of which is a sorcerer class ability. Not for nothing, while I know there are stam sorcs out there, I'm willing to bet it's not the go to class when people think "I want to focus on weapon damage". Also, like I said this change doesn't seem to be designed solely to add a buff to the dw line. As you pointed out, I can be a sorc or use potions if I want the buff out of combat. However, with this change it seems like they are trying to use the major brutality buff to give dw a comparable skill to rally. With that being the case, being able to gain the buff outside of combat, even without any additional effects or morphs, would immediately bring dual wield in line. Which is why I'd be more than happy if they put the buff on quick cloak/deadly cloak instead of hidden blade. Though bringing in a completely different skill that adds the buff and some extras would be nice.

Farorin

If you use a ranged weapon as well as dual wield, you have no need for flying blade, so attaching the buff to it seems silly to me, as it doesn't actually balance or fix the issue. If they had have put it on blade cloak or whatever it is called, that would have been useful, but I literally never use flying blade on my main seeing as how I use a bow + dual wield, so having range on what is essentially a bar I use to CLOSE gaps with defeats the purpose, anyone who plays the thief/assassin archetype using DW and Bow would probably feel the same way about it.

J2JMC

Farorin wrote: »

If you use a ranged weapon as well as dual wield, you have no need for flying blade, so attaching the buff to it seems silly to me, as it doesn't actually balance or fix the issue. If they had have put it on blade cloak or whatever it is called, that would have been useful, but I literally never use flying blade on my main seeing as how I use a bow + dual wield, so having range on what is essentially a bar I use to CLOSE gaps with defeats the purpose, anyone who plays the thief/assassin archetype using DW and Bow would probably feel the same way about it.

I agree with you as I play the same way but I imagine this is a great buff for people who run dw/dw. Still, adding it to quick cloak does help all play styles.