Hybrid builds ?

trimsic_ESO

Currently, hybrid builds, which make an equal usage of magicka and stamina resources, are not effective. They are not effective because many class skills and weapon skills scale off of magicka or stamina. But what if those skills only scaled off of weapon damage or spell damage ? Could it open the door to many new builds thus offering new choices to the players ?

Discuss.

nordsavage

I agree except for tanking since spell and weapon power are less of a concern for builds like mine which are more about grouping and disabling mobs, taking widespread punishment and debuffing.

Darkeus

big problem is also the ultimates... they scale highest stat magik/stam... if they are 50/50 basicaly you get a weaker ultimate

RavenSworn

It really depends on what you want out of your ultimates. In the case of the Tank, you dont need really good damage but rsther the utility you get from the ultimates.

Tanks are really the true hybrids imo, even pvp builds are more for health oriented builds than both damage resources used.

panemetcircenses

Well, if you really want hybrids to be effective without nerfing focus builds... why not scale off of Level, with stamina/magicka being used as a mechanic to restrict ability use rather than effectiveness? That would leave focus builds capable of spamming one subgroup, while allowing hybrids to effectively alternate. In fact, under that setup, hybrid builds would almost be forced to alternate resource subgroups to match the resource pools of more focused characters, reinforcing the hybrid concept...

RavenSworn

Well, depending on the feedback on imperial city.. The lessen damage requires groups to effectively cc and not just dps down the groups. Its still possible but the cost to survivability is something that needs to be reworked as well.

Hybrids shouldnt have the dps power of focus builds, thats not the intended mechanic here. However, if groups do require better utility, better cc, then that fourth slot for groups might be better off for hybrid builds, which then allows hybrids to be more effective and viabe in pve and in pvp.

Just my thoughts though, it does seem weird that dungeon mechanics now are able to be bypassed by sheer dps rather than using the intended mechanic.

Darkeus

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Well, depending on the feedback on imperial city.. The lessen damage requires groups to effectively cc and not just dps down the groups. Its still possible but the cost to survivability is something that needs to be reworked as well.

Hybrids shouldnt have the dps power of focus builds, thats not the intended mechanic here. However, if groups do require better utility, better cc, then that fourth slot for groups might be better off for hybrid builds, which then allows hybrids to be more effective and viabe in pve and in pvp.

Just my thoughts though, it does seem weird that dungeon mechanics now are able to be bypassed by sheer dps rather than using the intended mechanic.

imo to have a class and use from it 1,2 skills cause the rest are magik... and you want to be more of a stamina warrior thats total crap! same for being a magik build 100% forced to use staff to be competetitive total crap! i want to usee 2h swrd and have my magic skills on bar doin decent damage.... wth do we even have classes if im forced to use 2 skills from that class if i go stamina?

chevalierknight

Darkeus wrote: »

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Well, depending on the feedback on imperial city.. The lessen damage requires groups to effectively cc and not just dps down the groups. Its still possible but the cost to survivability is something that needs to be reworked as well.

Hybrids shouldnt have the dps power of focus builds, thats not the intended mechanic here. However, if groups do require better utility, better cc, then that fourth slot for groups might be better off for hybrid builds, which then allows hybrids to be more effective and viabe in pve and in pvp.

Just my thoughts though, it does seem weird that dungeon mechanics now are able to be bypassed by sheer dps rather than using the intended mechanic.

imo to have a class and use from it 1,2 skills cause the rest are magik... and you want to be more of a stamina warrior thats total crap! same for being a magik build 100% forced to use staff to be competetitive total crap! i want to usee 2h swrd and have my magic skills on bar doin decent damage.... wth do we even have classes if im forced to use 2 skills from that class if i go stamina?

You're not forced use dw gives more spell power

RavenSworn

I think you might be seeing this from a wrong angle... As a stamina user, you need to use some magicka skills for utility, cc, survivability... so many things that you need to have a viable build. You don't put every single skill on your bar to be stamina based, you NEED to have some magicka skills to augment or support your attacks.

for eg:

1st Bar
- Spam skill
- Execute skill
- Major buff
- Utility (can be buffs, heals, cc, whatever)
- Gap closer

This will be something of a template for a DPS stamina / magicka based build. Think about it, you don't spam Killer's Blade in expense of say.. Surprise Attack because it just doesnt do that much damage. It is however an execute skill that you will spam at execute level. Or you don't spam Petrify or Dark Talons because its a utility spell. Spam abilities will be definitely part of your main damage resource while buff, utility abilities are all part of your other resource. This you don't use often, in fact it should be used only when needed (re buff, cc, gap closing, etc)

Having a focus build on one damage resource will allow you to have better resource management, better dps numbers and better performance overall. While i don't agree that hybrids should have been put aside, it just cannot be putting out higher damage numbers than a pure focus build. Hybrids are so much better at being the 'support' class, the utility man. Unfortunately that's not the way the grouping works in this game, though it is possible with the right group setup and proper group mechanics.

shugg

I to would love a hybrid, My idea to fix this would be a weapon enchant that does an elemental damage a bit less than normal but also allow that weapon to replenish a resource, like a 2 handed weapon that does flame damage and instead of stam on heavy dose magic. The second would be a set that allows ability to scale of a combined stam and magic. Just an idea, not an easy thing to fix and make it competitive in pve

Waffennacht

Im going to jump in here with my opinion.

Im going to start of with, imo, a hybrid is a char thats (more than average) a combination of stamina and magicka. A straight down the middle choice of stamina and magicka seems like a waste.

Based on your playstyle and load out it would be beneficial to be more 65/35%, as an example, and I would call that a hybrid. (Maybe I have just assumed the literal meaning of an online slang?)

And Ive had really good success with such a build. Im more magicka but invest in stamina for my armor and sword and board. Reading stamina ups my armor I couldn't resist and magicka so i can constantly cast my buffs.

emopyronecrosis

So, I started using a hybrid Nightblade, using lot's of debuffs, snares, Cc. Basically being an arse in Imperial City, with lot's of AoE.

Obviously focus builds out DPS me, but what I've noticed from going from being a Stam DPS, to a Magic DPS, and now to what I'm calling a "Whatever the hell I wanna do" character I'm able to sustain and have the survivablility of a leach tank, while having the damage of an off healer/dps which can still be sustainable even when my magic hits zero.

Essenchially I'm using magic to do Heals and damage, while using stamina abilitys to debuff, like S and S low strike and shield bash, with imperial city I gotta say minor/major maim, and minor/major defile basically murder people slowly, then a dps can just sweep up the rest. Not to mention their not high on cost, and when needed I just use siphon attacks, caltrops, and sap essence if the dps need some time to heavy weave.

I guess Hybrid Building you require a mindset of being OK with being the jack of all trades, not bad at anything, but not the best. Also requires skill at all posts, I mean if you don't heal well, but can do damage and tank going Hybrid rather than stam dps/tanking would be a bad move, where as someone who can do everything and is ok with taking on the trust that hey I can tank, and still drop heals, and such. I mean some classes have it easy, Nightblade Tanks can kite using Shadow Image, drop the image, taunt, teleport do some heavy attacks set up leaches and repeat.

Dragon Knights on the other hand dunno with the nurf they got it's hard for me to do anything but heal anymore, they may need to go back to the skills and buff em' I mean I'd fully support a complete rework of all their skills because frankly it maybe required now with all the changes done, I mean hell ardent flame is close up, I use to be fine with being the battlemage close range dual wield destro, now I don't have the health regen to pull it off as well, perhaps some morphs of ardent flame ability to add range are gonna be needed, heck they may also need to take a look at inferno too.

SneaK

With Battle Leveling going up to V13 now, I think the hybrid build could be more of a thing. To me, the trick to making it work is finding a way to increase your regeneration on both stats. Perhaps mix in light and medium armor for the passives, and choose the boon opposite of your racial passives (ie. You're a Wood Elf, choose the Atronach).

I think I am going to try to level my DK in a hybrid type of build. End game, I may have to choose one or the other, but up until V14 I think hybrids could be viable.

Hexyl

Is there some hybrid set ? Or stuff ?

If not, then, it's useless to try cause that's mean ZO$ havn't disgn this game for it. Since they disable soft cap

You will loose a ton of damage, and also survivability.
You will loose damage from ultimate, and heal power


Hybrid still non-sens atm

TheLaw

Hybrid builds were very effective when the game launched on PC. The new team they have building the game seems to have a totally different vision. Never seen an MMO drop something so great for no reason.

SneaK

Hexyl wrote: »

Is there some hybrid set ? Or stuff ?

If not, then, it's useless to try cause that's mean ZO$ havn't disgn this game for it. Since they disable soft cap

You will loose a ton of damage, and also survivability.
You will loose damage from ultimate, and heal power


Hybrid still non-sens atm

Most of that doesn't matter in PvP if under V14

hrothbern

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Currently, hybrid builds, which make an equal usage of magicka and stamina resources, are not effective. They are not effective because many class skills and weapon skills scale off of magicka or stamina. But what if those skills only scaled off of weapon damage or spell damage ? Could it open the door to many new builds thus offering new choices to the players ?

Discuss.

@trimsic_ESO,
I read your post as: "would hybrid builds be better when the scale effect of the stats Magicka & Stamina is taken away for e.g.Damage, Heal, Damage shields, etc". Now it is rougly for 10% more stat you get 6% more effect, being a lot.
In effect the stats become only a pool for active abilities, utility abilities (Mag,Stam) and spike damage resistance (Health).
So on this and not on the topic hybrid builds the following:

When that is implemented the first use of your main stat pool becomes a burst pool (damage/heal/damage shield).
The build profiling choices left to the player are:
---- more Spell/Weapon damage/crit at the expense of the size of stat pools
---- more recoveries at the expense of the size of stat pools

And personally I like the interdependant dilemma's of choice of the existing structure very much:
--- shall I take more pool for higher damage/heal or more Spell/Weapon damage?
--- shall I take food (more pool) or shall I take drink (less pool but more recovery)?
--- what minimum can I live with in other pools for utilities I need
--- what minimum can I live with in my health pool to sustain before I can react
--- and more combinations...

IMO taking away this scale effect simplifies build profiling too much and decreases the fantastic high diversity of builds people make.

On behalf of a hybrid build, I do however like the improvement for hybrid builds that ZOS introduced this patch with the prismatic armor enchants: roughly 50% more stat but for all three stats. In practice this forces you to have an increase in your lowest priority stat without sacrificing your other stats.

I would also welcome that high end jewelry would have this. In stead of Arcane, Robust or Healthy as fixed stat bonus a prismatic fixed stat bonus

Mivryna

Ah, I mentioned an idea in my own thread, but this one seems more popular.

Hybrid Mage builds are essentially builds that focus on Magicka and spells, but prefer physical weapons. A Bound Weapon skill could be a great solution; it summons a weapon (perhaps based on your current weapon) for that particular bar, and causes stamina skills to scale based on Magicka, but still use Stamina to function. Then there's an interesting dynamic in having to enchant for max Magicka, but lower Stamina costs. Then one must also balance a small-but-efficient Stamina pool and a large-but-inefficient Magicka pool. A true hybrid!

a.skelton92

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Currently, hybrid builds, which make an equal usage of magicka and stamina resources, are not effective. They are not effective because many class skills and weapon skills scale off of magicka or stamina. But what if those skills only scaled off of weapon damage or spell damage ? Could it open the door to many new builds thus offering new choices to the players ?

Discuss.

No. That would just mean that everyone could do anything whilst wearing anything. It would be silly. There would be no downsides.. Someone who specs 90% into stamina should not then be able to cast a magicka spell just as effectively as someone who specced magicka. Which is what would happen if everything was just based off your weapon damage.