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i made a bosmer nb with 6.6k stam regen... can we have softcaps back now?

  • xylena
    xylena
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    alright since you asked nicely and i really want softcaps back, here's a screenshot in greenshade...

    YRGxM7G.jpg?1
    Edited by xylena on August 2, 2015 10:03PM
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  • SeptimusDova
    SeptimusDova
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    Thats a lot of regen. thank you for pic.
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  • Teiji
    Teiji
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    Please edit your original post with information pertaining to the following;

    • What sets you used
    • Your experiences in testing this build
    • Your results from testing this build
    • Champion points used

    I politely ask for this information, so others may actually test to see how weak or strong this actually is through being used in gameplay.

    If you're not going to test this, at least make it easy for others to test it.

    If you do this, I assure you that several users, interested, bored or whatever will quickly try this out so this thread can develop more efficiently, if something like this, or something similar would actually be a severe problem once on live, we can all get the inside information on it before it wrecks havoc for six months or more.
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  • xylena
    xylena
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    @Teiji this silly build isn't going to wreak havoc, NOT HAVING SOFTCAPS is already doing that on live and on pts...

    i'll reiterate again that i made this build simply to draw attention to how ridiculous it is for stats to increase exponentially... hardcore minmaxers will have no trouble creating builds that both hit hard and have de facto infinite regen, then the potatos copy/paste their builds, and game balance continues to be terrible, skilled/dedicated players quit, the community dissolves... i'd rather not see that happen as i like eso a lot
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  • Ace_SiN
    Ace_SiN
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    xylena wrote: »
    ps my stam DK main was winning duels with 1.8k buffed wep dmg and 32k max stam, if you don't think this NB build could easily kill pugs/randoms in an open world setting with 17k-ish pvp health, then you need more practice on your NB

    You're still only proving that building for high stam regen.. gives you high stam regen.. I mean it's not hard to take ANY build into Cyrodiil and stomp on baddies with it. You NEVER balance a game around low level play. Low level play won't and never will dictate the meta shift.

    Your 16k health within cyrodiil would be a joke to go up against. You don't even have the weapon damage to be a threat. You would only serve to be a dodge roll tank until you get caught in a single cc and killed almost instantly. I don't know why anyone would sacrifice so much just to mindlessly spam dodge roll.
    Edited by Ace_SiN on August 2, 2015 10:40PM
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  • Wargaard
    Wargaard
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    Xy stated most of the gear, the only thing we don't know are the exact jewellery.

    @olemanwinter 2k wep damage is more than sufficient to kill most players. I've tried weapon damage builds on my stam templar ranging from 4.2k down to 1.8k, and found that there is little reason in PvP to stack weapon damage higher than the low 3k marks while giving up sustain.

    Apart from that, running even 4k regen would make your sustain ridiculous, and leave you a lot closer to the 3k buffed weapon damage threshold.

    As a side note on Teiji's idea, has anyone tried creating a high elf sorc and pumping the magicka regen for hardened ward spam? Good luck getting through infinite hardened ward! :wink:
  • xylena
    xylena
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    the jewelry was shadow walker because the only stam regen jewelry is one of those new sets that i don't have yet... any jewelry with stam regen enchants will get you similar numbers on the build

    i could really care less if you think this build isn't "good" because for the 9000th time that's irrelevant

    you say something like "well duh of course stacking stam regen gets you more stam regen" but that also misses the point... 6.6k stam regen is an absurd number that's almost 5x larger than the original stam regen softcap (normalized to 1.6 numbers), even a linear increase on stacked stats would be better than this exponential nonsense

    removing softcaps = ridiculous stats = bad for balance, and also the reason hybrids are now too weak for 99.99% of players to compete with them in endgame pvp or pve
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  • Etharian
    Etharian
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    DDuke wrote: »
    olsborg wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    ...and this is why the roll dodge cost needs to stack.

    33%-66%-99%-132% etc


    Else there's going to be people just rolling around forever, just like on live.

    Wait what...its not currently stacking on pts? ..............

    There was a thread about it apparently not stacking/working correctly, but I'll have to test these things myself once I find time to log on PTS.

    actually it does stack... You can only roll dodge 6 times and your out of stam... 25k stam I had
  • olemanwinter
    olemanwinter
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    xylena wrote: »
    EXPONENTIALLY INCREASING STATS = BAD FOR GAME BALANCE

    I don't think you know what the word EXPONENTIAL means. lol
  • olemanwinter
    olemanwinter
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    Teiji wrote: »
    Please edit your original post with information pertaining to the following.

    OP won't. This is all empty rhetoric.

    Won't test the build. Can't/won't duel. Won't share details of the build.

    "But we've got to stop these 'exponentially' increasing stats".

    Which is funny. Apparently OP thinks we have the opposite of soft-caps. Apparently OP thinks you get more Stamina on your 62nd point allocated than you do on your 61st point allocated.

    Derp.
  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    Wargaard wrote: »
    Xy stated most of the gear, the only thing we don't know are the exact jewellery.

    @olemanwinter 2k wep damage is more than sufficient to kill most players. I've tried weapon damage builds on my stam templar ranging from 4.2k down to 1.8k, and found that there is little reason in PvP to stack weapon damage higher than the low 3k marks while giving up sustain.

    Apart from that, running even 4k regen would make your sustain ridiculous, and leave you a lot closer to the 3k buffed weapon damage threshold.

    As a side note on Teiji's idea, has anyone tried creating a high elf sorc and pumping the magicka regen for hardened ward spam? Good luck getting through infinite hardened ward! :wink:

    You don't need to invest all much for that.
    It turns duels into a joke since 1.6, like any other other regen build, but just standing there in open world spamming your ward will get you killed very fast.
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  • Artemiisia
    Artemiisia
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    these build is always fun to try to make, I manage to make my sorc have 45k magicka, with decent dps, nothing worth calling home about.

    I have seen many crazy builds, that in the end boost like one thing, but everything else suffers like crazy
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  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    xylena wrote: »
    alright since you asked nicely and i really want softcaps back, here's a screenshot in greenshade...

    YRGxM7G.jpg?1

    Oh my god... I hope no one sneezes in your direction.

    11k Health? :D
    Etharian wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    olsborg wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    ...and this is why the roll dodge cost needs to stack.

    33%-66%-99%-132% etc


    Else there's going to be people just rolling around forever, just like on live.

    Wait what...its not currently stacking on pts? ..............

    There was a thread about it apparently not stacking/working correctly, but I'll have to test these things myself once I find time to log on PTS.

    actually it does stack... You can only roll dodge 6 times and your out of stam... 25k stam I had

    Thanks, I'm relieved to hear that :smile:
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  • Zanen
    Zanen
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    The definition of a softcap is a point at which it isn't worth investing further, opportunity cost considered.

    Those points still exist.
  • Xael
    Xael
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    xylena wrote: »
    wouldn't have any of these issues with infinite roll dodgers or streakers or ganker 1-shotters if we just raised the softcaps a little instead of removing them completely...



    I am unsure what the point of this thread is.
    To achieve a regen like this you would probably need to be dual wield and use the new Willows set with the 5pc 15%, 3pc Air, and either Kynes or something else with another 2pc. That said your Weapon Damage is going to likely be below 2k and around 2k with the Major Brutality buff. Not to mention your Health will be around 9-10k give or take. In 2.1 PvP you will not be effective at killing and you certainly won't be living long.

    What is the point of this? You still can't infinitely roll.
    By the way, I don't think you understand how "ganker 1-shotters" work. Back when we had a softcap I was still a ganker 1-shotter on a Sorc, let alone the silly stuff I could do with a NB. This whole thread is pointless. Congrats on the regen, you are still combat ineffective.
    Edited by Xael on August 3, 2015 1:21PM
    I got killed in pvp, nerf everything...
  • Xantaria
    Xantaria
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    I don't see any problem with that.
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  • Araxleon
    Araxleon
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    Xylena i miss softcaps.... Maybe zeni will add hardcaps one day atleast

  • Xeniph
    Xeniph
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    While this is impressive regen levels. It does rely on double master daggers and DW to reach the current weapon damage.

    I also see NO problem in allowing folks to min-max builds to better facilitate their prefered playstyle. If someone wants to stack all regen and be a stamina healer, let them I say. I really, really hated the softcaps of old. They forced me to (what I considerer) hybridize my toon, so as to not waste stats.
    I like being able to have more control over the nuances of my build, the removal of softcaps provided.

    I am testing a build on the pts right now that has 2.7k regen and 3k weapon damage buffed. So far this seems to be giving the best dps/survivability in one package.

    The freedom we have now, I like it.
    Edited by Xeniph on August 3, 2015 8:37PM
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  • Erock25
    Erock25
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    If someone makes a build with 6k stam regen like OP just for the sake of doing it, it doesnt prove anything.
    Sure he made such build but by forcing it so much to get that stam regen, he lacks sufficent resources in other places, rendering build useless.

    Not to mention, capping anything is complete opposite of "play as you want" because when you hit a cap you are forced to start going into other direction and abandon what you planned to do.

    Its logical.

    I hope noone sane will support idea to make a step that will set back whole game, like what? 1 year to the past?

    Game was way more play as you want with soft caps in my opinion. My sorc was much more hybrid and not left in the dust this way.
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  • Verrask
    Verrask
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    I wouldn't necessarily mind softcaps on stats effecting damage coming back in at a higher level to encourage balance (*snicker* sorry), but game mechanics will always work in a pseudo-meta game. ZoS just needs to make sure everything is relevant to a character (health/health regen/magicka/magicka regen/stamina/stamina regen).

    Right now, they didn't do so well balancing that. They need to make players think three-dimensionally.
  • IxSTALKERxI
    IxSTALKERxI
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    That would be 11550 stam regen as Emp. GG.

    But yeah Xylena, I agree that some of the stats achievable since the removal of softcaps are what causes the imbalances we are seeing since 1.6 which has led to 'band-aid' fixes such as streak nerf, dodge nerf, block nerf and now shield nerf.

    And as xylena already said like 5 times... this was just an example to demonstrate the imbalances since 1.6, not an actual real build. You could easily tweak this to have a sufficient regen / damage output which would be much higher than anything prior to 1.5, which should not be a thing in a game based around resource management.

    On live I've played a variety of builds ranging from min/maxed stam regen as shown here, to min/maxed weapon damage. It's rather silly some of the numbers you can achieve.
    Edited by IxSTALKERxI on August 4, 2015 3:20AM
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  • cmabouaf
    cmabouaf
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    xylena wrote: »
    wouldn't have any of these issues with infinite roll dodgers or streakers or ganker 1-shotters if we just raised the softcaps a little instead of removing them completely...

    people who post bogus like this... even last patch i tested out a 5.5k stam regen build, it was not efficient at all, hence why i stopped doing it. sets such as shadow walker and engine guardian bring in way way way more stamina recovery then just stacking regen. Quit with your complaining and actually try to play a nb, dont just be a sorc who happens to create a nb "perma roll dodge build" to try and get nbs even more gimped on the pts.
    Lemur
  • vortexman11
    vortexman11
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    I'm pretty sure Xylenas point isn't that this is/isn't a viable build, her point is that because the game currently has no soft caps, even with the reduction to dmg, the reduction to healing, the reduction of shields, the rewordkof bolt/roll/block people can still stack their stats to points where all of those changes don't matter.

    The moment I saw that ESO Live weeks ago when they outlined all these changes, I told everyone that it'll happen, night blades will either stack more weapon because they'll roll less, thus hitting just as hard, or they'll stack even more stamina regen thus rolling just as much. Without soft caps no change made whether to damage or to defenses matters, because someone will always find a way to push the limits
    cmabouaf wrote: »
    xylena wrote: »
    wouldn't have any of these issues with infinite roll dodgers or streakers or ganker 1-shotters if we just raised the softcaps a little instead of removing them completely...

    people who post bogus like this... even last patch i tested out a 5.5k stam regen build, it was not efficient at all, hence why i stopped doing it. sets such as shadow walker and engine guardian bring in way way way more stamina recovery then just stacking regen. Quit with your complaining and actually try to play a nb, dont just be a sorc who happens to create a nb "perma roll dodge build" to try and get nbs even more gimped on the pts.

    Don't think Xylenas ever played a sorc
    Edited by vortexman11 on August 4, 2015 4:10AM
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  • xylena
    xylena
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    because the game currently has no soft caps, even with the reduction to dmg, the reduction to healing, the reduction of shields, the rewordkof bolt/roll/block people can still stack their stats to points where all of those changes don't matter

    @vortexman11 thanks, that sums it up better than i did :)

    so many gamers care less about balance and more about breaking the mechanics so they can be an OP god... just look at all the broken stamplars and their bugged jabs running around IC insta killing people... having soft caps really used to cut down on the insta kills and infinite resource nonsense, the changes now to block/roll/bolt force people into ridiculous stat stacking that limits viable class/race/build options, yet solves none of the issues everyone QQs about with the crazy bursting and endless defense move spamming once you adjust your build... it only makes the game even less accessible to newer players with fewer CP, and even more dominated by minmaxing, grinding, and copy-pasting builds
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  • Cinbri
    Cinbri
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    Really don't know what happening on pts: Surprise Attack dealing damage higher than my critted Honor the Dead with full CP investment into 3 healing buffs. :no_mouth:
    Edited by Cinbri on August 4, 2015 2:28PM
  • xylena
    xylena
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    And as xylena already said like 5 times... this was just an example to demonstrate the imbalances since 1.6, not an actual real build. You could easily tweak this to have a sufficient regen / damage output which would be much higher than anything prior to 1.5, which should not be a thing in a game based around resource management.

    @IxSTALKERxI also thanks, that sums up really well how easy it would be to start with my silly regen build that i threw together in 10 minutes with blue/purple v12 and v14 gear... and turn it into something with 4k wep dmg and 4k stam regen with decent gear and more CP at v16
    Really don't know what happening on pts: Surprise Attack dealing damage higher than my critted Honor the Dead with full CP investment into 3 healing buffs. :no_mouth:

    @Cinbri i've been bringing this up a lot too, even with the damage nerf, cheap spammable dps moves are still taking out over a third of people's health per shot, you can get several 8-9k surprise attacks off while your opponent is feared or still CC breaking if you have better latency than they do... nerf surprise attack, buff killers blade, fix cloak
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  • vortexman11
    vortexman11
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    Cinbri wrote: »
    Really don't know what happening on pts: Surprise Attack dealing damage higher than my critted Honor the Dead with full CP investment into 3 healing buffs. :no_mouth:

    Try Ritual of Rebirth, people have been hitting up to 45,000 self heals on PTS with it, I think it may be broken, I know its stronger than Breath of Life, but not that much stronger...
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  • Cinbri
    Cinbri
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    Cinbri wrote: »
    Really don't know what happening on pts: Surprise Attack dealing damage higher than my critted Honor the Dead with full CP investment into 3 healing buffs. :no_mouth:

    Try Ritual of Rebirth, people have been hitting up to 45,000 self heals on PTS with it, I think it may be broken, I know its stronger than Breath of Life, but not that much stronger...
    Should try definetly, only Rebirth morph? Used it only once and noticed new visual that showing healing radius for this ability.
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