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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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The real future of PvE tanking, without hyperbole.
Attorneyatlawl
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Much ado about nothing... the winds of change are coming.
Single-target tanking is extremely easy and will only barely be changed by the loss of stamina regeneration while holding block actively. It's AoE or multiple mobs that are any real concern for PvE, for sure. A split tank setup would handle that in spades... heck, an off-tank/dps holding just one axe for AA HM would ease the burden significantly and not be outlandish to handle. Or someone popping other easy things such as bone shield to give the synergy, or sharing your resource pools between magicka and stamina a little, or throwing on one of the numerous ways to regain stamina mid-combat without regen. The only encounter you really would need to even be concerned about in PvE, which is probably the main reason this change is being made, would be the hard-mode Axes in Aetherian Archive... even those, however, should be manageable between either split-tanking, or one good tank employing basic ideas for resource management. A conversation I had in-game earlier today about this was actually very productive with brainstorming. Let me elaborate
.
For nightblades, some of the key ideas were to use siphoning attacks, possibly make use of the Redguard passive by casting Power Extraction (which is a "melee" skill), using Mirage/Double Take for the dodge chance buff instead of dipping into your stamina pool for Shuffle, among others.
For Dragonknights, Earthen Heart skills give back 5% of your maximum stamina, and using Tri-food instead of dual-food (so you boost your magicka pool even in a full stamina build up to around 14,500+) and then one cost reduction glyph makes that very feasible to be getting by using Igneous Shield with a low cost and a large number of uses available over the course of a minute to not only buffer some of the incoming damage but get stamina back.
The axes are probably the most intensive fight to tank, and if you miss a power attack on them their regular swings hit hard enough that you would generally die if not lucky during the stun, with 3-4 of them making it difficult and dicey to not hold block for. There are a lot of ways you can think of that would do the trick, however.
One thought I floated by was to pop off Corrosive armor after refreshing the taunt on each axe, and then letting go of block: not only does the DK then only take 3% of his health per hit maximum, but would then be regenerating stamina and in no danger of dying from being stunned
... and with the taunt having been refreshed, agro wouldn't be an issue. During that time a DK could also generally get a couple of heavy attacks off for extra stamina regen before refreshing the taunts again a few seconds before Corrosive would wear off.
Some gear ideas floated around included sets like Engine Guardian or Bloodspawn (for the ultimate generation along with stronger armor/spell resist buff that stacks with others to ensure you remain mitigation capped full-time... this also would open the door towards using 5-piece medium instead of 5-piece heavy armor with the added 6000+ spell/armor buff due to how cost reductions work. (If using a sword and shield along with 5-piece medium armor, and two block cost reduction glyphs, with a mere 20 champion point investment in the block cost reduction passive, you would drop the cost down to 1,089 per hit mitigated versus the default 2,160. By contrast, a heavy armor build using sword and shield with 5pc heavy and one block cost reduction glyph has a cost of 821 per hit. In exchange you'd get a significant cost reduction to dodge rolling (100% mitigation by outright avoiding the hits, and thus saving your block cost... especially effective for AOE as you don't eat say, 5-6 hits from axes) as well as the rest of your stamina skills (3% more per piece equipped than you have now, which helps substantially if using a stamina taunt in cost savings when needing to hold multiple targets).
There are many, many ways people will come up with once they test rather than gnash teeth on the forums, I'm certain. The main goal of making it less trivial should be effective, and add difficulty... however, it won't be undoable by any stretch of the imagination as so many kept insisting . I'm curious if @Dduke bounced any ideas around today, actually, too. Games don't stay static in the MMORPG space: adapt, or die. 
PvE is not really an issue, you will just need to have 2 Tanks taking their turns
Single-target tanking is extremely easy and will only barely be changed by the loss of stamina regeneration while holding block actively. It's AoE or multiple mobs that are any real concern for PvE, for sure. A split tank setup would handle that in spades... heck, an off-tank/dps holding just one axe for AA HM would ease the burden significantly and not be outlandish to handle. Or someone popping other easy things such as bone shield to give the synergy, or sharing your resource pools between magicka and stamina a little, or throwing on one of the numerous ways to regain stamina mid-combat without regen. The only encounter you really would need to even be concerned about in PvE, which is probably the main reason this change is being made, would be the hard-mode Axes in Aetherian Archive... even those, however, should be manageable between either split-tanking, or one good tank employing basic ideas for resource management. A conversation I had in-game earlier today about this was actually very productive with brainstorming. Let me elaborate
.For nightblades, some of the key ideas were to use siphoning attacks, possibly make use of the Redguard passive by casting Power Extraction (which is a "melee" skill), using Mirage/Double Take for the dodge chance buff instead of dipping into your stamina pool for Shuffle, among others.
For Dragonknights, Earthen Heart skills give back 5% of your maximum stamina, and using Tri-food instead of dual-food (so you boost your magicka pool even in a full stamina build up to around 14,500+) and then one cost reduction glyph makes that very feasible to be getting by using Igneous Shield with a low cost and a large number of uses available over the course of a minute to not only buffer some of the incoming damage but get stamina back.
The axes are probably the most intensive fight to tank, and if you miss a power attack on them their regular swings hit hard enough that you would generally die if not lucky during the stun, with 3-4 of them making it difficult and dicey to not hold block for. There are a lot of ways you can think of that would do the trick, however.
One thought I floated by was to pop off Corrosive armor after refreshing the taunt on each axe, and then letting go of block: not only does the DK then only take 3% of his health per hit maximum, but would then be regenerating stamina and in no danger of dying from being stunned
... and with the taunt having been refreshed, agro wouldn't be an issue. During that time a DK could also generally get a couple of heavy attacks off for extra stamina regen before refreshing the taunts again a few seconds before Corrosive would wear off.Some gear ideas floated around included sets like Engine Guardian or Bloodspawn (for the ultimate generation along with stronger armor/spell resist buff that stacks with others to ensure you remain mitigation capped full-time... this also would open the door towards using 5-piece medium instead of 5-piece heavy armor with the added 6000+ spell/armor buff due to how cost reductions work. (If using a sword and shield along with 5-piece medium armor, and two block cost reduction glyphs, with a mere 20 champion point investment in the block cost reduction passive, you would drop the cost down to 1,089 per hit mitigated versus the default 2,160. By contrast, a heavy armor build using sword and shield with 5pc heavy and one block cost reduction glyph has a cost of 821 per hit. In exchange you'd get a significant cost reduction to dodge rolling (100% mitigation by outright avoiding the hits, and thus saving your block cost... especially effective for AOE as you don't eat say, 5-6 hits from axes
) as well as the rest of your stamina skills (3% more per piece equipped than you have now, which helps substantially if using a stamina taunt in cost savings when needing to hold multiple targets).There are many, many ways people will come up with once they test rather than gnash teeth on the forums, I'm certain
. The main goal of making it less trivial should be effective, and add difficulty... however, it won't be undoable by any stretch of the imagination as so many kept insisting . I'm curious if @Dduke bounced any ideas around today, actually, too. Games don't stay static in the MMORPG space: adapt, or die. -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.
6
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Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hmm yea stop reading after 2 or 3 sentance know were this is going saying tanking is dead. Tanking is not dead you just have to know how to tank. End of story.2 -
CidxLucy✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm yea stop reading after 2 or 3 sentance know were this is going saying tanking is dead. Tanking is not dead you just have to know how to tank. End of story.
This is soooooo right!0 -
J2JMC✭✭✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm yea stop reading after 2 or 3 sentance know were this is going saying tanking is dead. Tanking is not dead you just have to know how to tank. End of story.
If only you knew how stupid you looked right now. Whether you like the guy or not at least read it before commenting. The sad part is, the very first italicized quote would've let you guess his stance. The freaking title gives a hint. I think you stopped reading after the first 6 words in the title.Edited by J2JMC on July 28, 2015 10:47PMKnee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert10 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm yea stop reading after 2 or 3 sentance know were this is going saying tanking is dead. Tanking is not dead you just have to know how to tank. End of story.
This is soooooo right!
Try reading past the first couple of sentences. Did you reply to the wrong thread with multiple tabs open in your browser?
Edited by Attorneyatlawl on July 28, 2015 10:46PM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.2 -
CidxLucy✭✭
No I read the guy post and I agree with only his last part about tanking. I didnt read the first guy post.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm yea stop reading after 2 or 3 sentance know were this is going saying tanking is dead. Tanking is not dead you just have to know how to tank. End of story.
This is soooooo right!
Try reading past the first couple of sentences. Did you reply to the wrong thread with multiple tabs open in your browser?
Edited by CidxLucy on July 28, 2015 10:49PM0 -
Anlaemar✭✭✭I agree that tanking won't be impossible. Harder, yes. Tanks live and breath by adapting to situations. This is no different.
This gives some good idea for the Axes, though. I'm interested on how it will be handled.Edited by Anlaemar on July 28, 2015 10:54PM(NA) Anlaemar with 750+ Champion Points
Member Since April 15, 2014
(EP)Alrik Vadason - Nord Dragonknight
Tank
(EP)Matdasi Hlarrobar - Breton Mageblade
Formerly known as Ra'dar Ahdhari - Main DPS 40k Self Buffed
(EP)Marrec Vadason - Breton Templar Healer
(EP)Nameless - Altmer Sorcerer - Secondary DPS
- The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason -2 -
Lowenhigh✭✭
No I read the guy post and I agree with only his last part about tanking. I didnt read the first guy post.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm yea stop reading after 2 or 3 sentance know were this is going saying tanking is dead. Tanking is not dead you just have to know how to tank. End of story.
This is soooooo right!
Try reading past the first couple of sentences. Did you reply to the wrong thread with multiple tabs open in your browser?
The first guy looked really stupid b/c he posted the opposite of what the OP said. He's a nincompoop. L2Read2 -
Icharaxx✭Also one of the new Telvari stone sets (Black Rose) has 20% chance to restore some stamina on succesful blocks, so if you happen to run low on stamina there's that too.0 -
Avenias✭✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Much ado about nothing... the winds of change are coming.PvE is not really an issue, you will just need to have 2 Tanks taking their turns
Single-target tanking is extremely easy and will only barely be changed by the loss of stamina regeneration while holding block actively. It's AoE or multiple mobs that are any real concern for PvE, for sure. A split tank setup would handle that in spades... heck, an off-tank/dps holding just one axe for AA HM would ease the burden significantly and not be outlandish to handle. Or someone popping other easy things such as bone shield to give the synergy, or sharing your resource pools between magicka and stamina a little, or throwing on one of the numerous ways to regain stamina mid-combat without regen. The only encounter you really would need to even be concerned about in PvE, which is probably the main reason this change is being made, would be the hard-mode Axes in Aetherian Archive... even those, however, should be manageable between either split-tanking, or one good tank employing basic ideas for resource management. A conversation I had in-game earlier today about this was actually very productive with brainstorming. Let me elaborate.
For nightblades, some of the key ideas were to use siphoning attacks, possibly make use of the Redguard passive by casting Power Extraction (which is a "melee" skill), using Mirage/Double Take for the dodge chance buff instead of dipping into your stamina pool for Shuffle, among others.
For Dragonknights, Earthen Heart skills give back 5% of your maximum stamina, and using Tri-food instead of dual-food (so you boost your magicka pool even in a full stamina build up to around 14,500+) and then one cost reduction glyph makes that very feasible to be getting by using Igneous Shield with a low cost and a large number of uses available over the course of a minute to not only buffer some of the incoming damage but get stamina back.
The axes are probably the most intensive fight to tank, and if you miss a power attack on them their regular swings hit hard enough that you would generally die if not lucky during the stun, with 3-4 of them making it difficult and dicey to not hold block for. There are a lot of ways you can think of that would do the trick, however.
One thought I floated by was to pop off Corrosive armor after refreshing the taunt on each axe, and then letting go of block: not only does the DK then only take 3% of his health per hit maximum, but would then be regenerating stamina and in no danger of dying from being stunned... and with the taunt having been refreshed, agro wouldn't be an issue. During that time a DK could also generally get a couple of heavy attacks off for extra stamina regen before refreshing the taunts again a few seconds before Corrosive would wear off.
Some gear ideas floated around included sets like Engine Guardian or Bloodspawn (for the ultimate generation along with stronger armor/spell resist buff that stacks with others to ensure you remain mitigation capped full-time... this also would open the door towards using 5-piece medium instead of 5-piece heavy armor with the added 6000+ spell/armor buff due to how cost reductions work. (If using a sword and shield along with 5-piece medium armor, and two block cost reduction glyphs, with a mere 20 champion point investment in the block cost reduction passive, you would drop the cost down to 1,089 per hit mitigated versus the default 2,160. By contrast, a heavy armor build using sword and shield with 5pc heavy and one block cost reduction glyph has a cost of 821 per hit. In exchange you'd get a significant cost reduction to dodge rolling (100% mitigation by outright avoiding the hits, and thus saving your block cost... especially effective for AOE as you don't eat say, 5-6 hits from axes) as well as the rest of your stamina skills (3% more per piece equipped than you have now, which helps substantially if using a stamina taunt in cost savings when needing to hold multiple targets).
There are many, many ways people will come up with once they test rather than gnash teeth on the forums, I'm certain. The main goal of making it less trivial should be effective, and add difficulty... however, it won't be undoable by any stretch of the imagination as so many kept insisting . I'm curious if @Dduke bounced any ideas around today, actually, too. Games don't stay static in the MMORPG space: adapt, or die.
I am glad this is how you think. For a short moment i was worried that thanks to some forum ppl my build is going to get hit with a nerf also, but after reading this and i am assuming the devs are of like mind, you clearly have no clue what a good tank is capable of. That said, i am relieved knowing that my build will not be dmessed around by the devs to satisfy some peoples need. In fact i encourage ppl to listen to you, so that the harder they start getting pwned in pve, the faster tanks get a buff, which will make me even stronger.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]Edited by ZOS_MatM on July 29, 2015 12:43AM0 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am glad this is how you think. For a short moment i was worried that thanks to some forum ppl my build is going to get hit with a nerf also, but after reading this and i am assuming the devs are of like mind, you clearly have no clue what a good tank is capable of. That said, i am relieved knowing that my build will not be messed around by the devs to satisfy some peoples need. In fact i encourage ppl to listen to you, so that the harder they start getting pwned in pve, the faster tanks get a buff, which will make me even stronger. Than
Thanks for your input. I personally am not concerned with the difficulty adjustment in the slightest nor do I get "pwned in pve", but I wanted to provide some input and ideas for people who were looking for leaderboard scores to think on as far as strat. I suppose if you are just looking for completion, pretty much anything works for you @Avenias. I'm glad to hear you think your specific tactic will work out well and feel you are well off after a few months of playing. Good for you!
I've been at this quite a long time and rather than just brag, thought it might be more useful to have a constructive discussion. As of tomorrow, I'll have been at the trials for 14 months since the first DC completions. This isn't about me, but the game.
http://i.imgur.com/iXg6mwg.jpgEdited by ZOS_MatM on July 29, 2015 12:44AM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.3 -
traigusb14_ESO2✭✭✭✭✭I wasn't really worried. I have seen smart MMO people overcome way bigger changes over the years.
You and whomever you were talking to came up with multiple ways to handle probably the hardest fight in PVE for tanking (assuming PVE in IC won' be as bad since they are designed for 4 people).
All of them will probably work (one of the great things about ESO is the many ways to do things), the trick is to try them all and find out which gives the best times. I have no idea what that will turn out to be... it may even vary by guild composition.
Everything else will be easy to adjust to in comparison.
0 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »I wasn't really worried. I have seen smart MMO people overcome way bigger changes over the years.
You and whomever you were talking to came up with multiple ways to handle probably the hardest fight in PVE for tanking (assuming PVE in IC won' be as bad since they are designed for 4 people).
All of them will probably work (one of the great things about ESO is the many ways to do things), the trick is to try them all and find out which gives the best times. I have no idea what that will turn out to be... it may even vary by guild composition.
Everything else will be easy to adjust to in comparison.
Yar... and to be honest, part of the brainstorming was simply to come up with ideas for when harder content is introduced. It's been around for quite awhile at this point, and there will be new Trials and Arenas over time. For context as to why this thread was written, there have been a handful of very vociferously outraged threads and posts about the changes, so I wanted to illustrate that even though raw character power allocations can handle it without huge amounts of extra tricks for most everything (and a little ingenuity can handle the axes), there are a lot of ways to think outside the box in ESO. Raid comp definitely does and will affect how any given guild tackles them, especially when it comes to leaderboard runs. It ultimately comes down to what works best with who you have and what they're experienced with, to get the job done
.
Thanks for the post
. -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.0 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm yea stop reading after 2 or 3 sentance know were this is going saying tanking is dead. Tanking is not dead you just have to know how to tank. End of story.
Uhm... Yeah.... It says the exact opposite... Nice try being a smart-ass though...Edited by Averya_Teira on July 29, 2015 12:19AM1 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm yea stop reading after 2 or 3 sentance know were this is going saying tanking is dead. Tanking is not dead you just have to know how to tank. End of story.
Uhm... Yeah.... It says the exact opposite... Nice try being a smart-ass though...
I felt my meme picture was a polite way of pointing that out. -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
Halfwitte✭✭✭
No I read the guy post and I agree with only his last part about tanking. I didnt read the first guy post.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm yea stop reading after 2 or 3 sentance know were this is going saying tanking is dead. Tanking is not dead you just have to know how to tank. End of story.
This is soooooo right!
Try reading past the first couple of sentences. Did you reply to the wrong thread with multiple tabs open in your browser?
The first guy looked really stupid b/c he posted the opposite of what the OP said. He's a nincompoop. L2Read
Whoa! Name calling is this really constructive?
0 -
Endenium✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Much ado about nothing... the winds of change are coming.PvE is not really an issue, you will just need to have 2 Tanks taking their turns
Single-target tanking is extremely easy and will only barely be changed by the loss of stamina regeneration while holding block actively. It's AoE or multiple mobs that are any real concern for PvE, for sure. A split tank setup would handle that in spades... heck, an off-tank/dps holding just one axe for AA HM would ease the burden significantly and not be outlandish to handle. Or someone popping other easy things such as bone shield to give the synergy, or sharing your resource pools between magicka and stamina a little, or throwing on one of the numerous ways to regain stamina mid-combat without regen. The only encounter you really would need to even be concerned about in PvE, which is probably the main reason this change is being made, would be the hard-mode Axes in Aetherian Archive... even those, however, should be manageable between either split-tanking, or one good tank employing basic ideas for resource management. A conversation I had in-game earlier today about this was actually very productive with brainstorming. Let me elaborate.
For nightblades, some of the key ideas were to use siphoning attacks, possibly make use of the Redguard passive by casting Power Extraction (which is a "melee" skill), using Mirage/Double Take for the dodge chance buff instead of dipping into your stamina pool for Shuffle, among others.
For Dragonknights, Earthen Heart skills give back 5% of your maximum stamina, and using Tri-food instead of dual-food (so you boost your magicka pool even in a full stamina build up to around 14,500+) and then one cost reduction glyph makes that very feasible to be getting by using Igneous Shield with a low cost and a large number of uses available over the course of a minute to not only buffer some of the incoming damage but get stamina back.
The axes are probably the most intensive fight to tank, and if you miss a power attack on them their regular swings hit hard enough that you would generally die if not lucky during the stun, with 3-4 of them making it difficult and dicey to not hold block for. There are a lot of ways you can think of that would do the trick, however.
One thought I floated by was to pop off Corrosive armor after refreshing the taunt on each axe, and then letting go of block: not only does the DK then only take 3% of his health per hit maximum, but would then be regenerating stamina and in no danger of dying from being stunned... and with the taunt having been refreshed, agro wouldn't be an issue. During that time a DK could also generally get a couple of heavy attacks off for extra stamina regen before refreshing the taunts again a few seconds before Corrosive would wear off.
Some gear ideas floated around included sets like Engine Guardian or Bloodspawn (for the ultimate generation along with stronger armor/spell resist buff that stacks with others to ensure you remain mitigation capped full-time... this also would open the door towards using 5-piece medium instead of 5-piece heavy armor with the added 6000+ spell/armor buff due to how cost reductions work. (If using a sword and shield along with 5-piece medium armor, and two block cost reduction glyphs, with a mere 20 champion point investment in the block cost reduction passive, you would drop the cost down to 1,089 per hit mitigated versus the default 2,160. By contrast, a heavy armor build using sword and shield with 5pc heavy and one block cost reduction glyph has a cost of 821 per hit. In exchange you'd get a significant cost reduction to dodge rolling (100% mitigation by outright avoiding the hits, and thus saving your block cost... especially effective for AOE as you don't eat say, 5-6 hits from axes) as well as the rest of your stamina skills (3% more per piece equipped than you have now, which helps substantially if using a stamina taunt in cost savings when needing to hold multiple targets).
There are many, many ways people will come up with once they test rather than gnash teeth on the forums, I'm certain. The main goal of making it less trivial should be effective, and add difficulty... however, it won't be undoable by any stretch of the imagination as so many kept insisting . I'm curious if @Dduke bounced any ideas around today, actually, too. Games don't stay static in the MMORPG space: adapt, or die.
So thats what we want for the future of ESO tanking? A bunch of medium armor tanks? Yeah, I can see it working. I dont think anyone is saying that tanking is going to be dead or impossible. If they are, they are wrong. Obviously.
But is this really what we want? Because if so, we dont need any changes at all - we can already do this. We already have perfectly viable medium armor tanking builds.
ESO in its current build has medium tank builds and heavy armor builds. Both work fine. Yet, all this time is being put into all these changes in tanking. And for what? So that no one really uses heavy armor anymore because of stamina issues?
Im asking sincerely. Thats what I got from your comment.
Well. Thats not what I want from ESO. I like to keep my options open - which is why I have some 200 inventory space filled up with 4-5 different sets at any given moment on my tank. I like to change it up a lot. From hybrid dps to heavy, heavy, high armor tanking, to self healing/ off healing tanking.
I dont know man. Where I come from, we dont waste time, money, resources fixing things that arent even broken.
(Nor do we "fix" PVE gameplay for PVP reasons........)3 -
Wisler89✭✭✭Hm, the short version of the OP: DK tanks will still be vialbe, everyone else is out of luck. Yeah, I can see the "play how you want"...
As a NB-tank I can tell you that the they killed our Siphoning Attacks, no tank (or anyone else for that matter) will ever use the new version. Redguard + Power Extraction will not work, Power Extraction costs Stamina and you won't regen more Stamina (with the Redguard passive) than it costs.
In the future you WILL need a templar in your group for shards and non-DK-tanks will become a thing of the past.Eclaire Farron, V16 Sorc
Claire Etro, V16 NB
Leveling a DK and Temp because I'm bored
Server: EU - AD, Guild: Lux Dei0 -
Rinmaethodain✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also one of the new Telvari stone sets (Black Rose) has 20% chance to restore some stamina on succesful blocks, so if you happen to run low on stamina there's that too.
It just shows that the whole ZOS plan to make "0 stamina regeneration while blocking" was to lure even more people, PVE tanks in PVP areas with a carrot on a stick that they designed under name of "Black Rose" set.
Its so obvious its like a slap to the face of playerbase. Take away something in PVE due to false PVP accusations and then give remedy for it..... behind a paywall and forced PVP.0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The Black Rose set is bad.My Holiday Wishlist Below - Message me with any questions and Happy Holidays.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8227786#Comment_82277860 -
Colosso-monstro✭✭✭So tanks in general will wear medium armor now? Seems a little off doesn't it?
Now they've given us an armor that is a proc for resource. As others have put it already your life depends on armor procking on harder content. I mean if my toon's life depended on a Hist Bark proc then hot damn am I already screwed.0 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
No I read the guy post and I agree with only his last part about tanking. I didnt read the first guy post.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm yea stop reading after 2 or 3 sentance know were this is going saying tanking is dead. Tanking is not dead you just have to know how to tank. End of story.
This is soooooo right!
Try reading past the first couple of sentences. Did you reply to the wrong thread with multiple tabs open in your browser?
The first guy looked really stupid b/c he posted the opposite of what the OP said. He's a nincompoop. L2Read
Whoa! Name calling is this really constructive?
Can you argue that not even reading the title of a thread other than one key word: "tanking", and then posting without reading a single word of the OP, is constructive?Hm, the short version of the OP: DK tanks will still be vialbe, everyone else is out of luck. Yeah, I can see the "play how you want"...
As a NB-tank I can tell you that the they killed our Siphoning Attacks, no tank (or anyone else for that matter) will ever use the new version. Redguard + Power Extraction will not work, Power Extraction costs Stamina and you won't regen more Stamina (with the Redguard passive) than it costs.
In the future you WILL need a templar in your group for shards and non-DK-tanks will become a thing of the past.
That's the opposite of what I said, actually. The hardest class to tank on now, in my opinion, will be a toss-up between Templars and Sorcs, with the title probably going to Templars.
Sorcs, as much as everyone enjoys ignoring the fact, have a teleport skill with an arbitrary direction/no target requirement: that makes for easy breathing room and much less incoming damage against most enemies, which do the bulk or literally all of their attacks in melee range only. Factor in Boundless Storm's movement speed, which increases yours even yes, while blocking, overload providing an extra full bar to toss buffs and utility onto, shattering prison (heals, roots, and deals direct damage after it ends with a long 18 meter line range), the now-instant cast on Rune Prison and its morphs including one that doesn't break from DOT's.
Templars have access to Radiant Ward as a large bubble, Repentance (for AOE pulls this easily restores huge amounts of HP and Stamina)
[quote="Endenium;2080737So thats what we want for the future of ESO tanking? A bunch of medium armor tanks? Yeah, I can see it working. I dont think anyone is saying that tanking is going to be dead or impossible. If they are, they are wrong. Obviously.
I dont know man. Where I come from, we dont waste time, money, resources fixing things that arent even broken.
(Nor do we "fix" PVE gameplay for PVP reasons........)[/quote]
It's broken as-is on live, just as Negate stacking in Trials was, where you didn't need to have large amounts of healing to deal with mechanics, instead just stacking inside and dps'ing your heart out with the healers doing the same 75% of the time. The medium armor idea was just one idea out of many that people can adjust to deal with the change now that they'll have to face a small number more of the mechanics that they could previously outright ignore. And yes, an extreme number of people are complaining very, very strongly that tanking will be impossible for the vast majority if not all players, in some threads such as @Nifty2g's, which being a complaint attracts much more activity than a positive one like here. That's typical on anything you can think of online, where the rate of people posting product reviews to complain is several orders of magnitude higher than those who go to say "This thing's great, I'm glad I got it!". The change is overall going to be a very large net positive for ESO, just as changing the damage spikes and healing spikes in PVP will be from the Battle Spirit changes. I still would bet the farm that the blocking change is either equally aimed at, or even more aimed at, PVE, than it is towards player versus player combat.Hm, the short version of the OP: DK tanks will still be vialbe, everyone else is out of luck. Yeah, I can see the "play how you want"...
As a NB-tank I can tell you that the they killed our Siphoning Attacks, no tank (or anyone else for that matter) will ever use the new version. Redguard + Power Extraction will not work, Power Extraction costs Stamina and you won't regen more Stamina (with the Redguard passive) than it costs.
In the future you WILL need a templar in your group for shards and non-DK-tanks will become a thing of the past.
Trials groups always seek to have Templar(s) now for that reason as well as their higher heal outputs and mitigation such as the Nova morphs. That isn't changing. As far as nightblades, although they're currently rarely used as tanks, you can still deal with it in the Imperial City patch like I described. Siphoning Attacks has a chance to restore a large amount of resources still, just as before, on each hit. With 28,000 stamina, using power extraction on a redguard as in the example gives you 750 stamina back so long as the passive isn't on its 3-second cooldown. The skill has a very low base cost of just 2,872, before any cost reductions at all. Using the standard-on-live setup and keeping five-piece heavy armor (retaining the passives) and using 2 pieces of medium gives 6% off the cost, and just 20 points in the champion system gives another 6% (on the live tooltip; on PTS it no longer rounds it and says 6.1% instead).
Add in one Stamina Cost Reduction glyph (198 tooltip on PTS, 200 on live) and the effective cost as a heavy armor tank goes down to a scant 2353, minus the automatic 840 restored based on that stamina pool (not a high one, even) making the effective cost just over 1500 per use. Siphoning attacks on the PTS has a moderate flat value, tooltipping for 958 Magicka and Stamina gained for each basic attack (including a near-instant cycle of light-hitting and immediately pressing block again) at a low magicka cost, and as @ZOS_GinaBruno clarified (I think it was her... at least) for those who didn't see it in the patch notes, it is no longer a toggle: it's a buff that you cast like any other and therefore doesn't need to be on both bars. The 10%-chance portion should scale on your stats, in my opinion, but currently is set at a 10% chance of restoring 1916 magicka and stamina. The Nightblade class has a skill in the Shadow line called Path of Darkness pre-morph, which turns into Twisting or Refreshing Path. This skill ticks every half a second in a large aoe, and has a base duration of 11.5 seconds. It is an ideal candidate to use to make sure your Siphoning Attacks cast pays off, to say the least .
Thus, casting Power Extraction like the example I gave in the OP, has a net cost of about 1500, and a 10% chance per target (so potentially proccing multiple times in AOE pulls which is where you would use it, such as the AA HM Conjured Axes) to restore 1916 magicka and stamina each proc (a gain on stamina alone) on typically 3-4 targets, becoming mathematically a 40% chance of getting at least one proc, much more than paying for the cast, and granting 2 ultimate from the Transfer passive (which of course helps towards using those skills!).
By slotting a Siphoning skill on a hotbar, you also get an 8% max magicka boost from the Magicka Flood passive, which helps keep magicka less of an issue. With my Imperial Nightblade (no racial passive for magicka) and just using tri-stat food, I sit at a magicka pool using these simple factors, wearing no gear at all (nothing equipped, no attributes or buffs otherwise including mundus affecting it) a pool of 14,753, completely naked. With 63 attributes at VR15, still naked (zero gear equipped, the only effect added is the VR10 tri-food) he has 23,018 stamina and 16,305 health (using the same 327 champion points as I have on the live server now), with what could be a very basic off-the-cuff tanking main bar like this, which took around a minute total while writing this segment of this post:
In that slapped-together bar setup, remembering the stats are with NO EQUIPMENT ON even, you could easily taunt with Pierce Armor (and ranged with magicka as needed), cast Siphoning Attacks to leverage the multiple 0.5s tick moderate-long duration aoe DOT's for large resource returns, keep the major spell/armor buff with the heavy armor skill , and on the offbar maintain as needed some burst healing from the Vigor morph (heals substantially more on yourself , Spiked Bone Shield (30% of your max health physical bubble), and root adds during AOE pulls with a cast or two of Bombard mixed in. Use your imagination!
The examples I gave in the OP are just a small number of what you can come up with, ranging from significant gameplay style adjustments to simply leveraging more of the mechanics to tank similarly to how you do now. It's not meant to be an exhaustive list, just an illustration. So no, because I didn't list "X", that doesn't mean anyone said only "Y" is a viable way to tank. And contrary to popular belief, you do not need to taunt every last add in the pack: a dps will live just fine in Sanctum Ophidia when one of the archers plinks them without even noticing it from the AOE heals going off. You only need to taunt the "big" adds, and ones with specials that will have outsized impacts on the group (for example, the channeling champion bannermen in Hel Ra Citadel on the bottom as the tank).
As I was finishing writing this post, I saw the forum notification that @Gilliamtherogue had posted my tag in his thread that is negative regarding the changes. So Gil... I'd appreciate your thoughts here, moreso than there where it's largely devolved into mudslinging. (Also on a random aside... I want to double-check, but it seems using the spectral bow on Grim Focus morphs no longer consumes the damage buff! \o/). -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.2 -
Colosso-monstro✭✭✭Aren't the block changes going to seriously affect console players and those with low CP? I mean for people with sub 100 CP then these changes are much more significant aren't they?0
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traigusb14_ESO2✭✭✭✭✭@Attorneyatlawl
I'm not afraid of the Math Meta changes with this... I'm afraid of the Player Belief Meta.
Templar tanks should be fine. If we can get people to admit they can tank now
My problem is that I'm going to be drafted to play heal/support more than ever. Templars have too many skills that give STA to other people
I've been using bubbles and ground STA regen circle forever (and blazing spear for a AOE + STA grab for my STA DPS buddies). Since i'm a Hybrid Templar, I've tended to use the undaunted taunt to keep pressure off my STA anyway.
I'm always hearing that templars can't tank now.. and that is crap. But I fear we are entering an age of Templars should be supporting the "real tank" DK... more than ever because of our awesome support tools.
Edited by traigusb14_ESO2 on July 29, 2015 7:03PM1 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Colosso-monstro wrote: »Aren't the block changes going to seriously affect console players and those with low CP? I mean for people with sub 100 CP then these changes are much more significant aren't they?
Consoles were already going to be in a lot of trouble with the trials etc (excluding exploits like the fancy 200k camo hunter bug in that version at the moment) due to the lack of UI info. That has affected PC as well even with addons, and will continue to until a new slate comes with the API improvements that have now finally landed . As minimal as the info is on the PC on live right now, it's another level worse on the consoles since they can't use those, even. I personally feel that until the official toggle options for buff/debuff effect indicators and SCT arrive, the console version couldn't provide a great gameplay experience on this content in any case, and was basically a lost cause until that time. As to champion points, that is true... but not as much as you'd think. I gave the champion bonus figures with low investments on purpose to demonstrate the math using a baseline that new players reach fairly quickly. 90 champion points is the first breakpoint that makes the system a nice gain. From that you get 30 for each color segment of the wheel, which us why my numbers reflected 10 to 20 point spends. That is an insightful question to ask, @Colosso-monstro . -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
Colosso-monstro✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Colosso-monstro wrote: »Aren't the block changes going to seriously affect console players and those with low CP? I mean for people with sub 100 CP then these changes are much more significant aren't they?
Consoles were already going to be in a lot of trouble with the trials etc (excluding exploits like the fancy 200k camo hunter bug in that version at the moment) due to the lack of UI info. That has affected PC as well even with addons, and will continue to until a new slate comes with the API improvements that have now finally landed . As minimal as the info is on the PC on live right now, it's another level worse on the consoles since they can't use those, even. I personally feel that until the official toggle options for buff/debuff effect indicators and SCT arrive, the console version couldn't provide a great gameplay experience on this content in any case, and was basically a lost cause until that time. As to champion points, that is true... but not as much as you'd think. I gave the champion bonus figures with low investments on purpose to demonstrate the math using a baseline that new players reach fairly quickly. 90 champion points is the first breakpoint that makes the system a nice gain. From that you get 30 for each color segment of the wheel, which us why my numbers reflected 10 to 20 point spends. That is an insightful question to ask, @Colosso-monstro .
Ha so console players are just SOL in general then. That's unfortunate. I guess ill see what trials and vdsa are like in a week or so. I did DSA at vr7 on console but I have a feeling the end game is going to a bit tougher. As for the CP and the changes to stam regen then I think it's gonna be quite the rodeo
0 -
Pman85✭✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »
No I read the guy post and I agree with only his last part about tanking. I didnt read the first guy post.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Hmm yea stop reading after 2 or 3 sentance know were this is going saying tanking is dead. Tanking is not dead you just have to know how to tank. End of story.
This is soooooo right!
Try reading past the first couple of sentences. Did you reply to the wrong thread with multiple tabs open in your browser?
The first guy looked really stupid b/c he posted the opposite of what the OP said. He's a nincompoop. L2Read
Whoa! Name calling is this really constructive?
Can you argue that not even reading the title of a thread other than one key word: "tanking", and then posting without reading a single word of the OP, is constructive?Hm, the short version of the OP: DK tanks will still be vialbe, everyone else is out of luck. Yeah, I can see the "play how you want"...
As a NB-tank I can tell you that the they killed our Siphoning Attacks, no tank (or anyone else for that matter) will ever use the new version. Redguard + Power Extraction will not work, Power Extraction costs Stamina and you won't regen more Stamina (with the Redguard passive) than it costs.
In the future you WILL need a templar in your group for shards and non-DK-tanks will become a thing of the past.
That's the opposite of what I said, actually. The hardest class to tank on now, in my opinion, will be a toss-up between Templars and Sorcs, with the title probably going to Templars.
Sorcs, as much as everyone enjoys ignoring the fact, have a teleport skill with an arbitrary direction/no target requirement: that makes for easy breathing room and much less incoming damage against most enemies, which do the bulk or literally all of their attacks in melee range only. Factor in Boundless Storm's movement speed, which increases yours even yes, while blocking, overload providing an extra full bar to toss buffs and utility onto, shattering prison (heals, roots, and deals direct damage after it ends with a long 18 meter line range), the now-instant cast on Rune Prison and its morphs including one that doesn't break from DOT's.
Templars have access to Radiant Ward as a large bubble, Repentance (for AOE pulls this easily restores huge amounts of HP and Stamina)
[quote="Endenium;2080737So thats what we want for the future of ESO tanking? A bunch of medium armor tanks? Yeah, I can see it working. I dont think anyone is saying that tanking is going to be dead or impossible. If they are, they are wrong. Obviously.
I dont know man. Where I come from, we dont waste time, money, resources fixing things that arent even broken.
(Nor do we "fix" PVE gameplay for PVP reasons........)
It's broken as-is on live, just as Negate stacking in Trials was, where you didn't need to have large amounts of healing to deal with mechanics, instead just stacking inside and dps'ing your heart out with the healers doing the same 75% of the time. The medium armor idea was just one idea out of many that people can adjust to deal with the change now that they'll have to face a small number more of the mechanics that they could previously outright ignore. And yes, an extreme number of people are complaining very, very strongly that tanking will be impossible for the vast majority if not all players, in some threads such as @Nifty2g's, which being a complaint attracts much more activity than a positive one like here. That's typical on anything you can think of online, where the rate of people posting product reviews to complain is several orders of magnitude higher than those who go to say "This thing's great, I'm glad I got it!". The change is overall going to be a very large net positive for ESO, just as changing the damage spikes and healing spikes in PVP will be from the Battle Spirit changes. I still would bet the farm that the blocking change is either equally aimed at, or even more aimed at, PVE, than it is towards player versus player combat.Hm, the short version of the OP: DK tanks will still be vialbe, everyone else is out of luck. Yeah, I can see the "play how you want"...
As a NB-tank I can tell you that the they killed our Siphoning Attacks, no tank (or anyone else for that matter) will ever use the new version. Redguard + Power Extraction will not work, Power Extraction costs Stamina and you won't regen more Stamina (with the Redguard passive) than it costs.
In the future you WILL need a templar in your group for shards and non-DK-tanks will become a thing of the past.
Trials groups always seek to have Templar(s) now for that reason as well as their higher heal outputs and mitigation such as the Nova morphs. That isn't changing. As far as nightblades, although they're currently rarely used as tanks, you can still deal with it in the Imperial City patch like I described. Siphoning Attacks has a chance to restore a large amount of resources still, just as before, on each hit. With 28,000 stamina, using power extraction on a redguard as in the example gives you 750 stamina back so long as the passive isn't on its 3-second cooldown. The skill has a very low base cost of just 2,872, before any cost reductions at all. Using the standard-on-live setup and keeping five-piece heavy armor (retaining the passives) and using 2 pieces of medium gives 6% off the cost, and just 20 points in the champion system gives another 6% (on the live tooltip; on PTS it no longer rounds it and says 6.1% instead).
Add in one Stamina Cost Reduction glyph (198 tooltip on PTS, 200 on live) and the effective cost as a heavy armor tank goes down to a scant 2353, minus the automatic 840 restored based on that stamina pool (not a high one, even) making the effective cost just over 1500 per use. Siphoning attacks on the PTS has a moderate flat value, tooltipping for 958 Magicka and Stamina gained for each basic attack (including a near-instant cycle of light-hitting and immediately pressing block again) at a low magicka cost, and as @ZOS_GinaBruno clarified (I think it was her... at least) for those who didn't see it in the patch notes, it is no longer a toggle: it's a buff that you cast like any other and therefore doesn't need to be on both bars. The 10%-chance portion should scale on your stats, in my opinion, but currently is set at a 10% chance of restoring 1916 magicka and stamina. The Nightblade class has a skill in the Shadow line called Path of Darkness pre-morph, which turns into Twisting or Refreshing Path. This skill ticks every half a second in a large aoe, and has a base duration of 11.5 seconds. It is an ideal candidate to use to make sure your Siphoning Attacks cast pays off, to say the least .
Thus, casting Power Extraction like the example I gave in the OP, has a net cost of about 1500, and a 10% chance per target (so potentially proccing multiple times in AOE pulls which is where you would use it, such as the AA HM Conjured Axes) to restore 1916 magicka and stamina each proc (a gain on stamina alone) on typically 3-4 targets, becoming mathematically a 40% chance of getting at least one proc, much more than paying for the cast, and granting 2 ultimate from the Transfer passive (which of course helps towards using those skills!).
By slotting a Siphoning skill on a hotbar, you also get an 8% max magicka boost from the Magicka Flood passive, which helps keep magicka less of an issue. With my Imperial Nightblade (no racial passive for magicka) and just using tri-stat food, I sit at a magicka pool using these simple factors, wearing no gear at all (nothing equipped, no attributes or buffs otherwise including mundus affecting it) a pool of 14,753, completely naked. With 63 attributes at VR15, still naked (zero gear equipped, the only effect added is the VR10 tri-food) he has 23,018 stamina and 16,305 health (using the same 327 champion points as I have on the live server now), with what could be a very basic off-the-cuff tanking main bar like this, which took around a minute total while writing this segment of this post:
In that slapped-together bar setup, remembering the stats are with NO EQUIPMENT ON even, you could easily taunt with Pierce Armor (and ranged with magicka as needed), cast Siphoning Attacks to leverage the multiple 0.5s tick moderate-long duration aoe DOT's for large resource returns, keep the major spell/armor buff with the heavy armor skill , and on the offbar maintain as needed some burst healing from the Vigor morph (heals substantially more on yourself , Spiked Bone Shield (30% of your max health physical bubble), and root adds during AOE pulls with a cast or two of Bombard mixed in. Use your imagination!
The examples I gave in the OP are just a small number of what you can come up with, ranging from significant gameplay style adjustments to simply leveraging more of the mechanics to tank similarly to how you do now. It's not meant to be an exhaustive list, just an illustration. So no, because I didn't list "X", that doesn't mean anyone said only "Y" is a viable way to tank. And contrary to popular belief, you do not need to taunt every last add in the pack: a dps will live just fine in Sanctum Ophidia when one of the archers plinks them without even noticing it from the AOE heals going off. You only need to taunt the "big" adds, and ones with specials that will have outsized impacts on the group (for example, the channeling champion bannermen in Hel Ra Citadel on the bottom as the tank).
As I was finishing writing this post, I saw the forum notification that @Gilliamtherogue had posted my tag in his thread that is negative regarding the changes. So Gil... I'd appreciate your thoughts here, moreso than there where it's largely devolved into mudslinging. (Also on a random aside... I want to double-check, but it seems using the spectral bow on Grim Focus morphs no longer consumes the damage buff! \o/).[/quote]
A wild Wall of Text appears! It's super effective!!Guildmaster - Order of Stendarr [XB1] - Apply today!
Brought to you by Fishy Joe's....Ride the walrus!1 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
A wild Wall of Text appears! It's super effective!!
Hahaha. Well, simply stating the facts without explaining them didn't seem to be enough in other threads for people to try it on the PTS, nor relating experience of not needing to outright overpower the mechanics on live... so I was hoping to spur some actual talk finally instead of doom and gloom posts before it's been on the test server for even one full day. -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.0 -
Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Add in one Stamina Cost Reduction glyph (198 tooltip on PTS, 200 on live) and the effective cost as a heavy armor tank goes down to a scant 2353, minus the automatic 840 restored based on that stamina pool (not a high one, even) making the effective cost just over 1500 per use. Siphoning attacks on the PTS has a moderate flat value, tooltipping for 958 Magicka and Stamina gained for each basic attack (including a near-instant cycle of light-hitting and immediately pressing block again) at a low magicka cost, and as @ZOS_GinaBruno clarified (I think it was her... at least) for those who didn't see it in the patch notes, it is no longer a toggle: it's a buff that you cast like any other and therefore doesn't need to be on both bars. The 10%-chance portion should scale on your stats, in my opinion, but currently is set at a 10% chance of restoring 1916 magicka and stamina. The Nightblade class has a skill in the Shadow line called Path of Darkness pre-morph, which turns into Twisting or Refreshing Path. This skill ticks every half a second in a large aoe, and has a base duration of 11.5 seconds. It is an ideal candidate to use to make sure your Siphoning Attacks cast pays off, to say the least .
While you are correct about Path of Darkness ticking on the half second, and where I would expect this would normally proc SA, on the PTS I have been unable to get it to proc SA. In fact, the only persistent AoE I have successfully used to proc SA is Caltrops amongst those tested (Veil of Blades, Poison Mist, Scalding Rune, Degenerate/Structured Entropy, Soul Tether). The initial hit if the ability has one has the chance to proc, but the prolonged AoE seemingly does not. So it would seem you must expend a fair bit of stamina to have a good shot at getting some back with SA, however without significant numbers of mobs to proc SA, and the low return rate, it seems like a zero sum game since you need more stamina with more mobs, or won't get enough return with too few.0