Craglorn Surprised Me And Saddens Me At The Same Time

Publius_Scipio · July 2015

I've been around since beta and am not a grinding, get to end game maniac. I also spent a lot of time in PvP. Recently for the sake of finally getting to V14 I decided to give Craglorn a serious try in order to rack up some quality xp. Man was I pleasantly surprised. Craglorn is in my opinion the most beautiful and interesting zone in the whole game thus far. The storyline is cool, the dungeons are large and feel very mysterious, and the enemies are fun to fight. I am really impressed.

On the other hand I am saddened because my enjoyment of Craglorn is at the mercy of finding a group. Further, finding a group who is up to the same quest as you. The little I have done so far in Crag is all out of synch with the way the storyline is supposed to go. It's basically I finally find a group and we do whatever we come across. Rather than progress through the story as its meant to be.

Craglorn group content is very fun but I wish that it was soloable so that I can really explore and experience the zone without having my hands tied to find a group.

Reeko · July 2015

Why is it not soloable? Too hard?

Rylana · July 2015

Craglorn was ruined by the grindfests that ensued when level caps went up to v12 and v14, and the XP was just ridiculous via anomalies, mage, thief, and so on.

Very few actually bothered to do the questing or content, and just elected to powerlevel, and thus no one really goes there anymore.

OzJohnD · July 2015

Reeko wrote: »

Why is it not soloable? Too hard?

as a glass cannon at V10 yes .. 5 mobs at a time is nasty, process was basically try to kill at least 2 before I died, then finish them off like a normal 3 mob group

going to respec for some CC and try again after hitting V11

Publius_Scipio · July 2015

Reeko wrote: »

Why is it not soloable? Too hard?

If you are an experienced player with a powerful build you could solo the fights to an extent. HOWEVER, many of the puzzles and quest progress events require 3 or 4 players in a group (i.e. hit switches or touch orbs at the same time).

FireCowCommando · July 2015

Its been that way since the release of craglorn. At first it was difficult to find a group because everyone was doing the most recent discovery for grinding. After many nerfs to many sections of craglorn the EXP was so poor that hardly anyone spends time there now.

I agree with you on it being the most interesting zone they made so far, its just sad they felt they needed to turn it into a grouping graveyard.

Nova Sky · July 2015

Farmers still love Craglorn, especially Upper Craglorn. Whether that love endures, well, we'll see.

SirAndy · July 2015

Rylana wrote: »

no one really goes there anymore

Ravenholm!

Morvul · July 2015

IMHO, ZoS made two mistakes with Craglorn:
1) quests mechanically requiring 3 or 4 players. Difficulty-wise, pretty much everything could be Duo-ed (even at release, when difficulty was higher) - so why insist on having larger groups for some of the quests?
2)The extremely long main-quest-chain. Craglorns main quests had like 20 stages, which had to be done in sequential order. This obviously made it very difficult to find players to group with who wanted to do the same stage of the quest-chain.

@ZOS_RichLambert , wenn ZoS is working on Murkmire (the hinted at next adventure zone), I would therefore reccomend to try and avoid the above mistakes. I.e.: keep difficulty balanced for 2-3 players, but don't mechanically require more then 2 (and keeps most things solo-able if people are good enough). And avoid overly long quest chains, instead favouring "self-contained" quests which can be pickuped at anytime. It's perfectly fine if their stories are related, desireable even, but don't have half the quests in the zone part of a chain, requiring them to be done in sequential order.

However, the general concept of a "group questing" zone is, imho, a sound one. and I very much hope ZoS sticks to that concept for it's next adventure zone, instead of trying to convert it to a solo area in order to avoid a repeat of craglorns problems!

AngryNord · July 2015

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I've been around since beta and am not a grinding, get to end game maniac. I also spent a lot of time in PvP. Recently for the sake of finally getting to V14 I decided to give Craglorn a serious try in order to rack up some quality xp. Man was I pleasantly surprised. Craglorn is in my opinion the most beautiful and interesting zone in the whole game thus far. The storyline is cool, the dungeons are large and feel very mysterious, and the enemies are fun to fight. I am really impressed.

On the other hand I am saddened because my enjoyment of Craglorn is at the mercy of finding a group. Further, finding a group who is up to the same quest as you. The little I have done so far in Crag is all out of synch with the way the storyline is supposed to go. It's basically I finally find a group and we do whatever we come across. Rather than progress through the story as its meant to be.

Craglorn group content is very fun but I wish that it was soloable so that I can really explore and experience the zone without having my hands tied to find a group.

This is Elder Scrolls Online, not Elder Scrolls VI

KerinKor · July 2015

Craglorn was ill-conceived as a 1990s group-or-die affair and as already pointed out the only content open to those preferring not to have to 'group up' simply to level, XP grinds such as the 'crystals' and certain mob hotspots were nerfed to Oblivion by ZOS to prevent non-groupers being able to level.

The groupers exploited the fast XP and reached VR14 before it was nerfed, those who came after found the empty wilderness it is today.

It's very sad, there's an interesting story line there which few players will ever see due to it being undoable outside of groups and most people who are happy to 'group up' are in it solely for the XP and phat lewt.

I expect to see Orsinium similarly gutted of non-group content.

AngryNord · July 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Very few actually bothered to do the questing or content, and just elected to powerlevel, and thus no one really goes there anymore.

My version of Craglorn must be bugged then, because there are people all over the place

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

The fact that i have my chatbox full of whispers every time i type:

"looking for member for X,Y,Z quest, any VR"

in craglorn chat or rawlkha chat proves this:

"thus no one really goes there anymore." false statement

Its just people assume everyone in crag is just nirn farming or dont go there, and they dont even bother starting any activities.

They rather just complain how craglorn is difficult and they never cant find any group instead of actually trying to do something.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO · July 2015

try using 5 heavy with DPS skills. if you are VR10, hang out in the southern areas of craglorn. don't bother going up to upper craglorn until about v12-14- i didn't see a point until v14 and blue gear (i carry a heavy, medium, light armor and they are all blue minimum). it just wasn't time effective there for the experience. the best mobs to fight are the beasts in lower craglorn. avoid the wasps and scorpions until you invest more in damage mitigations. otherwise, craglorn is a group zone.... you may just have to find people to make friends with to progress at the same pace in the same cycle.

Rosveen · July 2015

AngryNord wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Very few actually bothered to do the questing or content, and just elected to powerlevel, and thus no one really goes there anymore.

My version of Craglorn must be bugged then, because there are people all over the place

Pay attention to what these people are doing. Almost no one comes there to quest.

Rev Rielle · July 2015

Just as the Imperial City is built with a focus on PvPer, Craglorn was the first (and only to date) landscape zone in game built with a focus on the group PvEer.

I think it is extremely important in MMOs to keep this kind of content in them: The group requiring content. And I feel Craglorn does this very well. MMOs I believe should continue to foster co-operation and players working together wherever possible. Otherwise they run the serious risk of loosing their identity even further than the decline in quality we've seen of late in the genre.

Sausage · July 2015

Craglorn dailies, reward is random CP-boosters, green 50%, blue 100%, purple 150% and legendary 200%, thats what Ive suggested to them. Also NPC recruiters for group finder found in Belkarth Tavern, people go there, choose what quest he wants to do and put NPC, leave or stay, another people go to Tavern, check the NPCs, choose if he joins or no, and leave or stay.

dlepi24 · July 2015

Reeko wrote: »

Why is it not soloable? Too hard?

Quite a few of the quests have mechanics that need more than one person (at least the main story ones). You need people to stand on multiple pressure plates and stuff like that to progress.

dennissomb16_ESO · July 2015

Phasing and the inability of friends and guild mates to come and help people with the quests in craglorn if they were not on the exact same quest at the exact same stage is what ruined craglorn for me. If you are going to design a group area, your friends must always be in a position to come help at any stage

AngryNord · July 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Very few actually bothered to do the questing or content, and just elected to powerlevel, and thus no one really goes there anymore.

My version of Craglorn must be bugged then, because there are people all over the place

Pay attention to what these people are doing. Almost no one comes there to quest.

I've helped out in several Craglorn quests over the past months, both main quests and repeatables.

AngryNord · July 2015

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

Phasing and the inability of friends and guild mates to come and help people with the quests in craglorn if they were not on the exact same quest at the exact same stage is what ruined craglorn for me. If you are going to design a group area, your friends must always be in a position to come help at any stage

This was removed long ago.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

Phasing and the inability of friends and guild mates to come and help people with the quests in craglorn if they were not on the exact same quest at the exact same stage is what ruined craglorn for me. If you are going to design a group area, your friends must always be in a position to come help at any stage

This is false.

Anyone VR1+ can help you with any craglorn quest at any given time. Only thing that prevents them from helping is lack of good will.

They can group with you and take part in any quest you have.

Of course if they want to complete that quest aswell, then they have to be at about same point of story as you.

I made this graph before but ill make it again. This is how craglorn storyline looks

1st quest is go to craglorn (guy with a cart on a white horse)

then it splits into four quests:

- The Warriors Call
- Shattered and lost
- Corrupted stone
- Elemental Army

Those four quests is what creates most rumors about crag. They can be completed in any order, with same or different groups. They can be all done at the same time.

Next quest is The missing guardian. This quest is only unlocked if you make all 4 above. This quest needs 4 people to open dungeon. NOTE. You can group with ANYONE and ANYONE can help you with this quest, even if they dont have it. It takes only one person with quest to trigger event that allows you to enter quest dungeon.

After completing this quest its downhill. There is a sequence of one after another quest. Finding group is easy. Quests often lead you to dungeons so you can tag along and complete your objectives there.

It goes like that: The Serpent's Fang, Holding Court, Slithering Brood (can be obtained before The Missing Guardian), Dawn of the Exalted Viper (kind of end of storyline quest - here nirn prize), The Time-Lost Warrior (a story ender quest).

This is it. The crag storyline consist of 8+1 quests. Those quests above are very fast. They tell you to enter some dungeons but usually objective is not the end boss but sometimes closer than him. Tho if you are there you might want to clear dungeon for skyshard/achievment.

Beside that there are dailies with plenty of people willing to do them, you just find people and you are free to share your daily quest or pick it up at quest location.

Please, stop spreading rumors about how crag quests are hard or something. You need to just give it a try.

Robotmafia · July 2015

i can understand where your coming from but at the same time the zone was designed for group play.. which i personally find a cool idea... the main problem is the lack of alternative for those who dont want to group... but in the end its a refreshing change.. otherwise it would be like any other zone... i find it kinda cool that there are place just not safe to be alone.. well it used to be that way when it was new now its been nerfed and we've been buffed so it isnt that hard anymore..

also keep in mind.. the zone flourished when it was first released.. since alot of people have done the quests and story its understandable thats the volume of players trying to do a quest your doing isnt going to be very big..

dennissomb16_ESO · July 2015

AngryNord wrote: »

dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »

Phasing and the inability of friends and guild mates to come and help people with the quests in craglorn if they were not on the exact same quest at the exact same stage is what ruined craglorn for me. If you are going to design a group area, your friends must always be in a position to come help at any stage

This was removed long ago.

Glad to hear this is true. Not tried a craglorn quest for a couple months. last time i tried, had a couple guildies with me as i was leveling up after coming back when game went FTP. Could not get some of the quests going as they were on different stages or complete and never bothered again

Zsymon · July 2015

Hey it's an MMO, not a singleplayer game. It's totally natural than an MMO has group content wouldn't you think?

NDwarf · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

The fact that i have my chatbox full of whispers every time i type:

"looking for member for X,Y,Z quest, any VR"

in craglorn chat or rawlkha chat proves this:

"thus no one really goes there anymore." false statement

Its just people assume everyone in crag is just nirn farming or dont go there, and they dont even bother starting any activities.

They rather just complain how craglorn is difficult and they never cant find any group instead of actually trying to do something.

What is this magical chat box you speak of? Is it a box found on the corpse of dead monsters in Craglorn? Console players want to know.

Srsly tho, not looking forward to a group only zone with a broke ass group finder on console and 5 guilds (4 of which are trade guilds) where everyone is spread out, not on mic, or off in pvp land.

Betrael · July 2015

Been playing since beta and you don't have a group of friends to play through content with?
I'm sorry, but the zone is not the problem, it's your ability to socialize.

Lunerdog · July 2015

I remember when Crag was first introduced, after they sorted out the memory leaks and everything else they broke it was great, arguably the most beautiful zone in the game and it was teaming with players and full of life.

Sure grinding went on, lots of it, but what was good about that was large numbers of people all working together, friends were made, dungeons got battered and we enjoyed ourselves.

Now I usually only go there for a high level mats run and am saddened to see how empty it is, they need to re-up the xp a bit and give players a reason to go back.

Sallington · July 2015

AngryNord wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Very few actually bothered to do the questing or content, and just elected to powerlevel, and thus no one really goes there anymore.

My version of Craglorn must be bugged then, because there are people all over the place

The problem is with the way the quests and phasing work. There could be 1000 people in the zone, but if no one is on the exact part of a questline that you are, it doesn't really matter.

AngryNord · July 2015

Sallington wrote: »

if no one is on the exact part of a questline that you are, it doesn't really matter.

As has already been said before in this very thread: That is no longer the case and hasn't been for ages

Vahrokh · July 2015

If someone is not a tank or healer and can't play at prime time, you may have to wait for hours before finding a group. And they'll only stay with you for 1-2 quest steps then everybody leaves.

It took less time finding a group when I played forced group hard core text games in the '90s. Despite they had few dozens of players online as well, not hundreds like ESO has got.

Friends all quit in 2014 after the many screwups, guildies only want to do vCOA or vDSA (sometimes gold key). Certainly NOT Craglorn quests that give close to no XP and close to no reward at all.