Math Wizards...I am an idiot. Speak slooowly...

Ace_of_Destiny

I have tried figuring this out on my own, but I just suck at math.

Why is it better in ESO to dump all your points into either stamina, or magika, and not split them?
(In othe RPGs the "equal out" plan works pretty well...but not in ESO, according to every build I have researched.
Why is this?

To me it seems that if you have 5 skills that use stamina, and five that use magika, that having an equal amount of stam & magika would be the way to go.
I undertsnad that the higher the resuorce the stronger the attack.
But, if you are using both types of attack, wouldn't you want to spread out the points?

Example:
I have a Templar that is currently using Dual-weapons, and Sweeping Spear, as my two main attacks.
The dual-weapon skill uses stamina.
The sweeping spear uses magika.
My Shield uses stamina.
My heal uses magika.
Wouldn't it be logical to have points in both stamina AND magika?

Now, as the title says...I am an idiot...Please Speak slowly...like you are explaining it to a member of Congress.

Thanks, All!

tinythinker

You don't sound like an idiot, but you already gave the answer. More stam for stam abilities=more powerful, more mag for mag abililities=more powerful. So the response would be to have all damage dealing based on one resource to be more effective rather than slitting it, with enough of the other resource for utility. However, if you are effective/happy with the results of being a hybrid, then use your skills that way.

Qyrk

You split them how you like to. But keep in mind that the damage of your skills is based on the corresponding resource . You can be a hybrid, but you will fare low in comparison to full magicka or full stamina build.

Again no one is stopping you from splitting it, I enjoy hybrids, but if you want biggest dmg output, you need to make a decision.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

The reason behind this is rather simple:

Ability effectiveness (for example healing, damage) scales with the resource pool that is used for said ability. Stacking this resource is a good thing, because there is no cap on it.

Your dual-wield weapons scale off your stamina bar (you can of course use it more often, but also they get stronger), while most class skills scale off magicka... I think there is a stamina morph for your sweeping spear.

So, at the current state it is advised to choose between a magicka. or stamina-based gameplay, and then choose your morphs accordingly. You should only pick skills that use the other resource for utility. If you choose, like you said, five magicka and five stamina skills, you're nowhere as strong as you could be. Regarding heals, there is a pretty good self heal in the 2h line, and also repentance is quite good (provided you kill enough).

F7sus4

Ace-2112 wrote: »

Why is it better in ESO to dump all your points into either stamina, or magika, and not split them?

Because you either want full Stamina or full Magicka build for competitive gameplay. The more Magicka and Spell Damage you have the better your Magicka abilities are. The same is true for Stamina which boosts your Weapon Damage and Stamina abilities. It's a bit compulsory to be master of one in this game.

To me it seems that if you have 5 skills that use stamina, and five that use magika, that having an equal amount of stam & magika would be the way to go.

(...) the way to be just average at everything. As said above already.

Example:
I have a Templar that is currently using Dual-weapons, and Sweeping Spear, as my two main attacks.
The dual-weapon skill uses stamina.
The sweeping spear uses magika.
My Shield uses stamina.
My heal uses magika.
Wouldn't it be logical to have points in both stamina AND magika?

1) If you're Magicka build you're most likely to be non-melee character. Therefore you're focusing Light Armor to boost your Spells on different fields. Since you're non-melee, you use Stamina to occasionally block a melee attack that you normally avoid.

2) If you're Stamina build you're both good at melee and ranged combat. Therefore you have more Stamina resources to block melee fight. You also focus Medium Armor to boost your movement and Physical Damage output efficiency. Since you're Stamina, you will use use a Magicka class abilities occasionally - to boost your weapon skills etc.

This leads to 1 builds archetypes: 1) Restoration/Destruction-Staff in Light Armor focusing on Magicka, 2) Dual Wield/2-Handed/Bow with Medium Armor focusing on Stamina.

Ahzek

Its a simple matter of effectiveness.
Splitting your points results in you using 2 abilities that are only half as strong as they could be thus leaving you behind other builds that simply invest in one resource and then just decide to use only 1 type of abilities for damage.
The other resource is usually used for utility ( blocking/dodgind/break free, shuffle/ immovable, or (de)buffs such as surge, igneous shield, reapers mark).

Additionally not only are the abilities You use not as strong as those of mono resource builds, they are also less cost efficient. You would have to split your gear (light and medium armor) and your enchants to cater to two resource types. While you might have better stamina management than a pure magicka build for example that magicka build would benefit from way better magicka management and can offset its stamina disadvantage by only using stamina for very specific actions and not for rudimentary damage or healing.

Thus onvesting only in one resource gives you :
Overall more powerfull abilities. (Time efficiency)
Better management of that resource. (Cost efficiency)
And the ability to rely on the other resource only for specific actions -> always having enough of that resource to fulfill those actions.

Ace_of_Destiny

*SNIP*
I had a long-arsed post here, but the next one is when it *clicked*.


Sorry...
I took my meds, and they kinda mess up my brain quite a bit.
Ya gotta love Xanax, Trazodone, Oxycodone, and Mellaril. hehe

Ace_of_Destiny

Okay...I got it now!
Something in my brain snapped when I read that "stamina affects weapon damage".
I thought it ONLY affected weapon skills damage.

Now THAT made me rethink EVRYTHING!


THank you all, VERY much!
I would have remained the idiot I was being...if not for you all.



One last question though...
As you raise a resourse since the effectiveness of a skill goes up, does the cost as well?
It seemed like when I started playing ( I built a stamina templar.) that even though all my points were in stamina that I still only got the same number of skill uses out of a full bar as I did with just the basic amount.

Ahzek

Ability cost scales with your level ( not your vet lvl though) thus when you invest in HP both your resource pools become relatively smaller compared to what they used to be before you leveled up since you now have higher ability cost with a similary sized pool.
note: all attributes get increased wih your level, but as you progress a bigger and bigger part is determined by your attribute investment and your gear with enchants and later on set boni

Ace_of_Destiny

Ahzek wrote: »

Ability cost scales with your level ( not your vet lvl though) thus when you invest in HP both your resource pools become relatively smaller compared to what they used to be before you leveled up since you now have higher ability cost with a similary sized pool.
note: all attributes get increased wih your level, but as you progress a bigger and bigger part is determined by your attribute investment and your gear with enchants and later on set boni

So, would it be smarter to put it all into stamina for a melee buils.
Or, put 75% into stamina and 25% into HP?
I would think one would want some to go into HP...right?
Or, is that just up to the individuals tastes as far as how "close to the edge" one likes to play?

F7sus4

Ace-2112 wrote: »

As you raise a resourse since the effectiveness of a skill goes up, does the cost as well?
It seemed like when I started playing ( I built a stamina templar.) that even though all my points were in stamina that I still only got the same number of skill uses out of a full bar as I did with just the basic amount.

What Ahzek said. And it's also the reason why you want to focus only 1 Skill Stat (be it either Magicka or Stamina). While leveling, you'll find your skills being more and more expensive. You won't have enough Attribute points and gear bonuses to be able to cast both Stamina and Magicka abilities fluently. At VR14 if you're Magicka build, you can cast 2-3 Stamina abilities to find yourself completely out of Stamina. And vice versa.

tinythinker

Ace-2112 wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Ability cost scales with your level ( not your vet lvl though) thus when you invest in HP both your resource pools become relatively smaller compared to what they used to be before you leveled up since you now have higher ability cost with a similary sized pool.
note: all attributes get increased wih your level, but as you progress a bigger and bigger part is determined by your attribute investment and your gear with enchants and later on set boni

So, would it be smarter to put it all into stamina for a melee buils.
Or, put 75% into stamina and 25% into HP?
I would think one would want some to go into HP...right?
Or, is that just up to the individuals tastes as far as how "close to the edge" one likes to play?

Some people do all stam or mag for attribute points, no health, but then use high quality food to boost either stam+health or mag+health. Others might save an armor glyph or two for an echantment raising max health. At high vet ranks you adjust this based on the min health needed for an activity, such as trials or PvP, if you are trying to min-max your damage or healing output (tanks obviously go directly for health as a main attribute). If you think that the higher damage isn't killing things fast enough to keep you from dying, you juggle your attribute points, food/drink buffs, and armor glyphs to get the balance right.

I had a VR14 Templar healer with all attributes in health, purple food, and all magicka raising glyphs on the armor. Worked just fine. I also tried all magicka for attributes and a couple of health glyphs on the armor of a VR14 NB, and was fine. Lots of combinations, but they need to be customized to your playstyle.

F7sus4

tinythinker wrote: »

Some people do all stam or mag for attribute points, no health, but then use high quality food to boost either stam+health or mag+health. Others might save an armor glyph or two for an echantment raising max health.

When I read this BS and see your forum nickname, well, it goes pretty well together.

I had a VR14 Templar healer with all attributes in health, purple food, and all magicka raising glyphs on the armor. Worked just fine.

Fine is too subjective and from what I see not even close to the level of gameplay we were discussing in here.

Endurance

Ace-2112 wrote: »

I have tried figuring this out on my own, but I just suck at math.

Why is it better in ESO to dump all your points into either stamina, or magika, and not split them?
(In othe RPGs the "equal out" plan works pretty well...but not in ESO, according to every build I have researched.
Why is this?

To me it seems that if you have 5 skills that use stamina, and five that use magika, that having an equal amount of stam & magika would be the way to go.
I undertsnad that the higher the resuorce the stronger the attack.
But, if you are using both types of attack, wouldn't you want to spread out the points?

Example:
I have a Templar that is currently using Dual-weapons, and Sweeping Spear, as my two main attacks.
The dual-weapon skill uses stamina.
The sweeping spear uses magika.
My Shield uses stamina.
My heal uses magika.
Wouldn't it be logical to have points in both stamina AND magika?

Now, as the title says...I am an idiot...Please Speak slowly...like you are explaining it to a member of Congress.

Thanks, All!

pump one stat for greater damage, but that wont have a significant effect on damage because you have to craft different armor sets that buff physical/magic weapon damage also each piece needs to have the mundus stone on it to gain extra attack (crafting armor is alot easier and better than farming a set from dungeons/pvp)

NotSo

When you split your attributes in half, you basically split your efficiency in half.
Let's say with a well rounded build, your main damaging skill does 2000 damage. Well, if you're stacked in whatever stat that skill uses, you'll hit for 4000 damage. Now take into account how fast you can spam that skill (about once every second). When you spam your skill 5 times, you do either 10,000 damage in 5 seconds or you do 20,000 damage in 5 seconds. In a fight where you have a very limited amount of time before you die (or your group members die) there is an obvious choice to how effectively you need to kill something. (Or heal someone, all numbers apply the same to heals).

Though splitting up what skills use what pool is actually a good thing, granted your main pool covers all of your damage/heal skills and the off pool covers only utility skills (strictly buffs and CCs).

SLy_Kyti

Ace-2112 wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

Ability cost scales with your level ( not your vet lvl though) thus when you invest in HP both your resource pools become relatively smaller compared to what they used to be before you leveled up since you now have higher ability cost with a similary sized pool.
note: all attributes get increased wih your level, but as you progress a bigger and bigger part is determined by your attribute investment and your gear with enchants and later on set boni

So, would it be smarter to put it all into stamina for a melee buils.
Or, put 75% into stamina and 25% into HP?
I would think one would want some to go into HP...right?
Or, is that just up to the individuals tastes as far as how "close to the edge" one likes to play?

I have redistributed my points several times to get what I feel is the right build for my mêlée nightblade. Mine is vr14, I've experimented with all stamina points, a fairly even split and now -- mostly stamina, six magic, a few more than that in health. Here's what I've found that echos the sage advice given by many above...

Before allocating points--

*eat purple food, *put on a good gear set for your build (for me its mostly Hundings Rage for PvE), *Look at your abilities you currently use and the morphs you want to unlock, some have recently changed to use magic instead of stamina.You may need more magic than me depending on what you choose. *If you want to run Undaunted pledges or dungeon groups you'll need to be able to put out good dps...start putting in your points and see how it changes your weapon damage/ critical. Don't neglect your spell damage but pay closer attention to how your attribute points affect your damage. *Stop before allocating all your points... *Get the best glyph's you can afford for your gear. Use them to make up where you lack in a attribute. Since most of mine are in Stamina I use a purple health and Magic then add the rest to Stamina as well. *Use the rest of your few points after playing awhile without them to see if you're running g out of magic or stamina (or dying and need a bit more health).

There is no magic formula. I have reallocated points to play PvP, to tank dungeons and as the game has been updated to change abilities.
Good luck to you.

demendred

You're not an idiot, you just didn't know.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

spell power and weapon power effect damage. separately, max magica/stamina also scales spell damage/ weapon damage respectively. its that simple. more max stat more damage from abilities pulling from that pool.

generally you should focus on one pool for damage and the other pool for utility. if your mostly stam, spell damage is going to suck because of the pool/ spell-weapon power/ gear will be oriented to being a good stam character. in early game you can just mix and match but at endgame you might be doing half the damage as someone speced for it with the same ability or less than half. i think radient oppression on my stam spec is 5k something and magica its 13k