The Day Youtubers Were a Bit Dramatic

CodeNoir

Good afternoon,

It would be unfortunate for one opinion to appear more popular or dominant than others and therefore sway development in one direction that would not benefit the larger population.

I have been playing MMOs for over 13 years beta testing many of the popular games of today.
I believe that condemning ESO to death over 2 VR levels is a huge dramatisation.

Every successful MMO and even more single player RPGs with their DLC will increase the level cap. Increasing he level cap enables players to relive that sense of progression again. Combine increased level caps with new content and new gear to progress to and you keep players engaged and coming back to increase their power and enjoy the new content.

Some Youtubers need to not fear the level increase. Many players once reaching level caps and having completed most of the game content get bored and will leave to look for new challenges. When games increase level caps and introduce new content they often win back many players and customers who want to progress their characters further. Youtubers should welcome this, especially when they intend to make a career off of the game. Youtubers will benefit by making new levelling guides, discussing new gear sets and content etc.

Of course some people who currently have full vr14 epics on all characters will look at this as inconvenient as their gear will be redundant. I would rather encourage these players to rise to the new challenge and aim to be world firsts and pioneers in these new areas.

My guild and I who have came from FFXIV fully welcome level cap increases when it is correlating with new content and new gear progression.

Now the champion point system that many popular Youtubers condemn does have its problems and I also fully support a cap on how many points gained per week. Another successful mechanic from other MMOs that ensures that players with more time to play the game do not out power players with jobs and responsibilities who are just as skilled.

I am still a fan and subscriber of the Youtubers that were against the increase. However I do encourage them to reevaluate what impact this is really going to have. For my guild and I we feel that when a level cap stays the same too long the game becomes stagnant. No wonder people farm CP when they don't have new content or gear to earn.

Conclusion VR is fine and natural in such games and in fact should increase at least every 4 months with new content and gear. CP needs a cap so that people don't just farm the same areas and actually play other content in the game.

sadownik

Either we call eso a typical MMO, or we strive for something else.
Either we will settle for artifical progression with vet ranks or we will demand meaningful horizontal progression system.
Either we will have CS as it is now, and grind for hours as a desired play style, or we pursue a chance for new players to get in the endgame before polar caps melt.

I dont know about you, but for me what we have now is flawed.

MCMancub

THIS JUST IN: Most gamers don't have a clue what they're talking about.

Most of these issues are over CP, not VR.

For example, seen the hundreds of CP threads recently? Not one, NOT ONE, has pointed out that the CP treadmill is nearly identical to the gear treadmill you see in other MMOs. But everyone is so quick to point out what a terrible system it is, how it could never work, and is the death of ESO, but we clearly see from other MMOs such a system can, and does, work all the time, only it does so in another form: gear.

Elsonso

Meh.

The end game progression is in the middle of a transition, and I doubt anyone is happy with the speed that it is happening. During the transition, not everything is going to be optimal and some concessions are going to have to be made.

Veteran Rank 16, and the possible Veteran Rank 18 that follows it, are just part of that concession while we are in the transition to remove Veteran Ranks. While the Veteran System is still in place, such that it is, Veteran Ranks will need to reflect the newer content that is being delivered. As unfortunate as it is that they cannot remove Veteran Ranks right now, and avoid VR 16, the increase needs to be done.

Players can either accept and adapt, rage against ZOS and adapt, or just rage against ZOS.

sadownik

MCMancub wrote: »

THIS JUST IN: Most gamers don't have a clue what they're talking about.

Most of these issues are over CP, not VR.

For example, seen the hundreds of CP threads recently? Not one, NOT ONE, has pointed out that the CP treadmill is nearly identical to the gear treadmill you see in other MMOs. But everyone is so quick to point out what a terrible system it is, how it could never work, and is the death of ESO, but we clearly see from other MMOs such a system can, and does, work all the time, only it does so in another form: gear.

Is gear level connected to cp? I didnt notice that.

Edit: dont get me wrong cp system is flawed and it will very soon become apparent.

P3ZZL3

Situation

• No one genuinely cares unless they do Trials or PVP
• No-one is really bothered about 2 VR Ranks - from both PVE and PVP

Issue

• The CP System is generating an insurmountable gap between players fighting in the same environment
• This has removed an consideration that skill is involved as the CP's will always be higher with some who grind.

Potential Solution

• Create a new campaign that runs without CP's - creates a flat fighting Zone for Cyrodiil
• Create a leader boards with and without CP's for the min/maxers and normal players/new players

Now, I'm off back to grinding up my Templar another 5 levels

Edit: To make it look more purdy.

MCMancub

sadownik wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

THIS JUST IN: Most gamers don't have a clue what they're talking about.

Most of these issues are over CP, not VR.

For example, seen the hundreds of CP threads recently? Not one, NOT ONE, has pointed out that the CP treadmill is nearly identical to the gear treadmill you see in other MMOs. But everyone is so quick to point out what a terrible system it is, how it could never work, and is the death of ESO, but we clearly see from other MMOs such a system can, and does, work all the time, only it does so in another form: gear.

Is gear level connected to cp? I didnt notice that.

Edit: dont get me wrong cp system is flawed and it will very soon become apparent.

Not what I meant. I'll explain:

Tons of people are complaining that the CP system is flawed because those with more CP roll over others in PvP and over all the content in PvE. They claim there is no solution to this system. As the months and years go on those players will simply get stronger and stronger with no challenge in site.

All that the CP system is right now is like WoW adding all the gear sets for the next 4 expansions without adding any of the content. Players can get absurdly strong with no content to appease them or boundaries to define them. It's like if ESO released the game with 50 levels but only starter zones.

The solution is to simply add harder content for PvE and to set up some sort of divide between players of differing power levels in PvP (different campaigns, maybe?).

The Champion System is nothing more than the foundation system for ZOS to set up a treadmill for ESO in the future. The difference is that instead of it being a gear treadmill where you do X content to get gear so you can do Y content, you do X content to get CP so you can do Y content. What's missing right now is the Y content.

Rhakon

MCMancub wrote: »

THIS JUST IN: Most gamers don't have a clue what they're talking about.

Most of these issues are over CP, not VR.

For example, seen the hundreds of CP threads recently? Not one, NOT ONE, has pointed out that the CP treadmill is nearly identical to the gear treadmill you see in other MMOs. But everyone is so quick to point out what a terrible system it is, how it could never work, and is the death of ESO, but we clearly see from other MMOs such a system can, and does, work all the time, only it does so in another form: gear.

yes with skill and gear you get better gear, and more ingametime you get more skill and exp as PLAYER.

but in eso you dont need skill and gear to get strong, you just farm CP 24/7 skillless and naked to get strong.

there is no challange to master, or loot and gear needed to get up there.

ITS JUST COLLECTING CP LIKE A FARMER HARVEST CORN.

MCMancub

Rhakon wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

THIS JUST IN: Most gamers don't have a clue what they're talking about.

Most of these issues are over CP, not VR.

For example, seen the hundreds of CP threads recently? Not one, NOT ONE, has pointed out that the CP treadmill is nearly identical to the gear treadmill you see in other MMOs. But everyone is so quick to point out what a terrible system it is, how it could never work, and is the death of ESO, but we clearly see from other MMOs such a system can, and does, work all the time, only it does so in another form: gear.

yes with skill and gear you get better gear, and more ingametime you get more skill and exp as PLAYER.

but in eso you dont need skill and gear to get strong, you just farm CP 24/7 skillless and naked to get strong.

there is no challange to master, or loot and gear needed to get up there.

ITS JUST COLLECTING CP LIKE A FARMER HARVEST CORN.

There was little skill required in WoW either. Do easy dungeon/raid to get gear. Put on gear. Put forth same effort for next tier of dungeons/raids to get next tier of gear. Rinse and repeat. The fights changed but the difficulty never did because you just kept getting stronger as the content did.

EDIT: I'm not advocating for this model or that I want ESO to be WoW, I don't. But vertical progression is something that players want. That's a fact. If they didn't, GW2 would be more popular. And WoW's model for vertical progression arguably works.

Rhakon

MCMancub wrote: »

Rhakon wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

THIS JUST IN: Most gamers don't have a clue what they're talking about.

Most of these issues are over CP, not VR.

For example, seen the hundreds of CP threads recently? Not one, NOT ONE, has pointed out that the CP treadmill is nearly identical to the gear treadmill you see in other MMOs. But everyone is so quick to point out what a terrible system it is, how it could never work, and is the death of ESO, but we clearly see from other MMOs such a system can, and does, work all the time, only it does so in another form: gear.

yes with skill and gear you get better gear, and more ingametime you get more skill and exp as PLAYER.

but in eso you dont need skill and gear to get strong, you just farm CP 24/7 skillless and naked to get strong.

there is no challange to master, or loot and gear needed to get up there.

ITS JUST COLLECTING CP LIKE A FARMER HARVEST CORN.

There was little skill required in WoW either. Do easy dungeon/raid to get gear. Put on gear. Put forth same effort for next tier of dungeons/raids to get next tier of gear. Rinse and repeat. The fights changed but the difficulty never did because you just kept getting stronger as the content did.

Yes CONTENT you perfectly supplemented my thoughts.

MCMancub

Rhakon wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Rhakon wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

THIS JUST IN: Most gamers don't have a clue what they're talking about.

Most of these issues are over CP, not VR.

For example, seen the hundreds of CP threads recently? Not one, NOT ONE, has pointed out that the CP treadmill is nearly identical to the gear treadmill you see in other MMOs. But everyone is so quick to point out what a terrible system it is, how it could never work, and is the death of ESO, but we clearly see from other MMOs such a system can, and does, work all the time, only it does so in another form: gear.

yes with skill and gear you get better gear, and more ingametime you get more skill and exp as PLAYER.

but in eso you dont need skill and gear to get strong, you just farm CP 24/7 skillless and naked to get strong.

there is no challange to master, or loot and gear needed to get up there.

ITS JUST COLLECTING CP LIKE A FARMER HARVEST CORN.

There was little skill required in WoW either. Do easy dungeon/raid to get gear. Put on gear. Put forth same effort for next tier of dungeons/raids to get next tier of gear. Rinse and repeat. The fights changed but the difficulty never did because you just kept getting stronger as the content did.

Yes CONTENT you perfectly supplemented my thoughts.

I think you may have missed my earlier post

The Champion System is nothing more than the foundation system for ZOS to set up a treadmill for ESO in the future. The difference is that instead of it being a gear treadmill where you do X content to get gear so you can do Y content, you do X content to get CP so you can do Y content. What's missing right now is the Y content.

Cherryblossom

CodeNoir wrote: »

Good afternoon,

It would be unfortunate for one opinion to appear more popular or dominant than others and therefore sway development in one direction that would not benefit the larger population.

I have been playing MMOs for over 13 years beta testing many of the popular games of today.
I believe that condemning ESO to death over 2 VR levels is a huge dramatisation.

Every successful MMO and even more single player RPGs with their DLC will increase the level cap. Increasing he level cap enables players to relive that sense of progression again. Combine increased level caps with new content and new gear to progress to and you keep players engaged and coming back to increase their power and enjoy the new content.

Some Youtubers need to not fear the level increase. Many players once reaching level caps and having completed most of the game content get bored and will leave to look for new challenges. When games increase level caps and introduce new content they often win back many players and customers who want to progress their characters further. Youtubers should welcome this, especially when they intend to make a career off of the game. Youtubers will benefit by making new levelling guides, discussing new gear sets and content etc.

Of course some people who currently have full vr14 epics on all characters will look at this as inconvenient as their gear will be redundant. I would rather encourage these players to rise to the new challenge and aim to be world firsts and pioneers in these new areas.

My guild and I who have came from FFXIV fully welcome level cap increases when it is correlating with new content and new gear progression.

Now the champion point system that many popular Youtubers condemn does have its problems and I also fully support a cap on how many points gained per week. Another successful mechanic from other MMOs that ensures that players with more time to play the game do not out power players with jobs and responsibilities who are just as skilled.

I am still a fan and subscriber of the Youtubers that were against the increase. However I do encourage them to reevaluate what impact this is really going to have. For my guild and I we feel that when a level cap stays the same too long the game becomes stagnant. No wonder people farm CP when they don't have new content or gear to earn.

Conclusion VR is fine and natural in such games and in fact should increase at least every 4 months with new content and gear. CP needs a cap so that people don't just farm the same areas and actually play other content in the game.

ERM, you are aware that ZOS said they were removing them? Then decided instead they would add more!
Its nice how you agree with the YouTuber on the main point, which was Champion System that needs to be addressed....

Frustration in ZOS is caused by ZOS. I honestly truly wonder if they have any idea of what they want to do, first they don't want any vertical progression, they add veteran level. Say this was a mistake, then add some more!
CS Horizontal!!! what does that even mean, it seems Vertical to me, CP are little levels. Which once again you have to grind because there is not the content in the game to achieve them.

There must be a Leveling strategy board in ZOS HQ which looks like it was created by a demented spider.

Pman85

Youtubers are always over drastic in everything they do. Its all about those subs you know.

Sallington

2 levels and a zone is not commonplace in MMOs. That kind of level cap raise is busy work and an annoyance. A 10+ level cap raise with a FULL EXPANSION is normal.

Makes sense with their business model now though. "We'll raise the level cap 2 levels, but you need to buy the DLC to have a new zone to level in."

Elijah_Crow

I have to agree that a lot of the reaction to the Level Cap increase and the CP system is waaaay over dramatic. ZOS needs to do what's best for the game as a whole and be less concerned about the 3% and the vocal minority.

Pman85

if you beleive the rumors, the increase to vr 16 is to help out the balance. Now what part of the balance in the game that is for, i am not quite sure.

Elsonso

Pman85 wrote: »

if you beleive the rumors, the increase to vr 16 is to help out the balance. Now what part of the balance in the game that is for, i am not quite sure.

I think the increase to VR16 is just to have some sort of additional progression due to the fact that the last remaining part of the Veteran System is still hanging around.

I am not certain how the departure of Sage and Aliprando impacted the removal, or if it was the other way around, the removal somehow impacted their departure. In any case, I doubt that it helped to speed things along.

Tors

CodeNoir wrote: »

I believe that condemning ESO to death over 2 VR levels is a huge dramatisation.

I agree with you, but you forget a few things that makes your well thourght out post you put a lot of effort into a total waste of your time.


1) People were crying the same thing when they added to VR12, and then again to VR14
2) People who see the positive side are playing the game, not trolling forums. The reason we have a forum is to keep the vocal minority away from real people.
3) If they DO remove VR levels, then these people will cry about what replaces them. They are too blind to see what the strengths of this game are (one of them being the item/gear system) and what a VR level actually is.


I wish they would just rename them as levels 51 - 64 and be done with the crap


Otherwise, @CodeNoir nice post and If I see your name again, ill be reading your views

traigusb14_ESO2

Pman85 wrote: »

if you beleive the rumors, the increase to vr 16 is to help out the balance. Now what part of the balance in the game that is for, i am not quite sure.

The switchover. The yhave a lot of craftin materials and other things to switch over to whatever the new system is.

VR 14 is divisable by 14 and 2. And division of level based content gets messy

VR16 is divisible 4 x 4... so they can split stuff into 4 groups when they take it apart.

Everything isn't going to become flat 50 (including Hrothgar). It can't. People with CP will just steamroll it... and Viodstone isn't going to be a fashion color choice with the the new lv50 (used to be VR) metals being just different default colors.

As they add level scaling, expect stuff to be tiered in some way. If they were smart they would do it on the switch-over. How , I duuno. But it will help if the numbers allow easier division. 14 is a bad number.

Elsonso

Tors wrote: »

I wish they would just rename them as levels 51 - 64 and be done with the crap

It sounds like they explicitly do not want to do that. When they are done with Veteran Ranks, everyone will still be Level 50.

Tors

lordrichter wrote: »

When they are done with Veteran Ranks, everyone will still be Level 50.

Im sure the playerbase will accept the loss in stats those in the VR ranks currently have.
Im sure that they will realise how crap a tiered equipment system is when they get it, but by then it will be too late to turn back.

People who wanted WoW with an Eldar Scrolls skin will have won and those that didint will find some other game

Junipus

Am I the only one annoyed with them for saying one thing then doing the complete opposite?

That's my beef with ZOS is they don't listen to their customers and do their own thing. That would make sense most of the time, but when a large chunk of your player base wants you to do something and you do the complete opposite, That'd give a bad impression

Tolmos

CodeNoir wrote: »

Now the champion point system that many popular Youtubers condemn does have its problems and I also fully support a cap on how many points gained per week. Another successful mechanic from other MMOs that ensures that players with more time to play the game do not out power players with jobs and responsibilities who are just as skilled.

I personally believe that capping how much CP you can gain per week, this late in the game, would be a horrid idea and only serve to hold back the newer players from catching up to the current ones.

I would much rather see scaling XP requirements for them. The first CP is 400,000. The next is 410,000. The next is 420,000 etc etc. Eventually, a virtual cap would start to appear that would slow down overall CP gains across the board. It would be easier to catch up to the lower/mid tier of CP players while still allowing hardcore grinders and botters to keep their places at the top.

parpin

CodeNoir wrote: »

Good afternoon,

It would be unfortunate for one opinion to appear more popular or dominant than others and therefore sway development in one direction that would not benefit the larger population.

I have been playing MMOs for over 13 years beta testing many of the popular games of today.
I believe that condemning ESO to death over 2 VR levels is a huge dramatisation.

Every successful MMO and even more single player RPGs with their DLC will increase the level cap. Increasing he level cap enables players to relive that sense of progression again. Combine increased level caps with new content and new gear to progress to and you keep players engaged and coming back to increase their power and enjoy the new content.

Some Youtubers need to not fear the level increase. Many players once reaching level caps and having completed most of the game content get bored and will leave to look for new challenges. When games increase level caps and introduce new content they often win back many players and customers who want to progress their characters further. Youtubers should welcome this, especially when they intend to make a career off of the game. Youtubers will benefit by making new levelling guides, discussing new gear sets and content etc.

Of course some people who currently have full vr14 epics on all characters will look at this as inconvenient as their gear will be redundant. I would rather encourage these players to rise to the new challenge and aim to be world firsts and pioneers in these new areas.

My guild and I who have came from FFXIV fully welcome level cap increases when it is correlating with new content and new gear progression.

Now the champion point system that many popular Youtubers condemn does have its problems and I also fully support a cap on how many points gained per week. Another successful mechanic from other MMOs that ensures that players with more time to play the game do not out power players with jobs and responsibilities who are just as skilled.

I am still a fan and subscriber of the Youtubers that were against the increase. However I do encourage them to reevaluate what impact this is really going to have. For my guild and I we feel that when a level cap stays the same too long the game becomes stagnant. No wonder people farm CP when they don't have new content or gear to earn.

Conclusion VR is fine and natural in such games and in fact should increase at least every 4 months with new content and gear. CP needs a cap so that people don't just farm the same areas and actually play other content in the game.

level cap is not the issue..you should read the thread made by deltia.
the issue is raising vr ranks while they are gonna remove it somday ..this kind of short term solutions makes no sense and developers should really work on proper and permanent system for the game.
the CP is the biggest issue here..right now most of players particularly console players are working towards vr14 so the problem seems not that big..only small % of pc players have over 600 cp..but look at it a year from now..imagine you are new player or returning player in mid 2016..suddenly found yourself in the pvp and pve with people who have 600+ cp at least if not 1000..in long run things like CP will damage the game more than problem it solves in short term.

SIXR_sCaR

mrskinskull

CodeNoir wrote: »

Good afternoon,

It would be unfortunate for one opinion to appear more popular or dominant than others and therefore sway development in one direction that would not benefit the larger population.

I have been playing MMOs for over 13 years beta testing many of the popular games of today.
I believe that condemning ESO to death over 2 VR levels is a huge dramatisation.

Every successful MMO and even more single player RPGs with their DLC will increase the level cap. Increasing he level cap enables players to relive that sense of progression again. Combine increased level caps with new content and new gear to progress to and you keep players engaged and coming back to increase their power and enjoy the new content.

Some Youtubers need to not fear the level increase. Many players once reaching level caps and having completed most of the game content get bored and will leave to look for new challenges. When games increase level caps and introduce new content they often win back many players and customers who want to progress their characters further. Youtubers should welcome this, especially when they intend to make a career off of the game. Youtubers will benefit by making new levelling guides, discussing new gear sets and content etc.

Of course some people who currently have full vr14 epics on all characters will look at this as inconvenient as their gear will be redundant. I would rather encourage these players to rise to the new challenge and aim to be world firsts and pioneers in these new areas.

My guild and I who have came from FFXIV fully welcome level cap increases when it is correlating with new content and new gear progression.

Now the champion point system that many popular Youtubers condemn does have its problems and I also fully support a cap on how many points gained per week. Another successful mechanic from other MMOs that ensures that players with more time to play the game do not out power players with jobs and responsibilities who are just as skilled.

I am still a fan and subscriber of the Youtubers that were against the increase. However I do encourage them to reevaluate what impact this is really going to have. For my guild and I we feel that when a level cap stays the same too long the game becomes stagnant. No wonder people farm CP when they don't have new content or gear to earn.

Conclusion VR is fine and natural in such games and in fact should increase at least every 4 months with new content and gear. CP needs a cap so that people don't just farm the same areas and actually play other content in the game.

It does seem like very standard mmo practice. Especially in light of incoming dlc. I don't get all the fuss.

Players that grind and struggle to max their characters out will always have a numerical advantage. Lucky for the rest of us they can really only win against predictable defenseless mobs.

PvP players are usually a bit smarter.

Isarii

MCMancub wrote: »

THIS JUST IN: Most gamers don't have a clue what they're talking about.

Most of these issues are over CP, not VR.

For example, seen the hundreds of CP threads recently? Not one, NOT ONE, has pointed out that the CP treadmill is nearly identical to the gear treadmill you see in other MMOs. But everyone is so quick to point out what a terrible system it is, how it could never work, and is the death of ESO, but we clearly see from other MMOs such a system can, and does, work all the time, only it does so in another form: gear.

Well, there's one key difference in the CP treadmill - it's not a treadmill.

The gear treadmill is called that because it doesn't go anywhere. Each now patch also increases the baseline with new, higher iLvl starter sets, and new expansions reset the gear playing field by wiping it all away with a level cap increase. CP has no moving baseline, and it has no reset, either. This is a serious challenge that ZOS needs to tackle if they want new players to come to the game, and I honestly haven't yet figured out how they're going to do it.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Every successful MMO and even more single player RPGs with their DLC will increase the level cap. Increasing he level cap enables players to relive that sense of progression again. Combine increased level caps with new content and new gear to progress to and you keep players engaged and coming back to increase their power and enjoy the new content.

WE DONT NEED NEW LEVELS FOR NEW GEAR!!! STOP PERPETUATING THIS LIE.

Increasing he level cap enables players to relive that sense of progression again.

I don't want to regrind all my gear just to relive leveling up again. leveling up sucked, why would i want to relive that?

Fighting VR16 Monsters with VR16 gear is the same as fighting VR14 Monsters with VR14 gear. It's just number inflation.

What makes the game fun and exciting is ACTUAL CONTENT, not just cookie clicker math.

Dradhok

I suspect their is a division within ZOS asto how they should move forward much like the division we are seeing on the forums. I personally don't think they need to remove either cp or vr systems. Many gamers like these progression models. What they do need to do is implement another layer or rank system that "levels the playing field" as another posted before. People want choice so give it to them, if you play with cp active you are routed with likeminded players or you can turn them off and enjoy the game that's way. If you don't like a vr style progression then online RPGs are probably not for you. Either we have progression or we stop playing.

S1ipperyJim

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Situation

• No one genuinely cares unless they do Trials or PVP
• No-one is really bothered about 2 VR Ranks - from both PVE and PVP

Issue

• The CP System is generating an insurmountable gap between players fighting in the same environment
• This has removed an consideration that skill is involved as the CP's will always be higher with some who grind.

Potential Solution

• Create a new campaign that runs without CP's - creates a flat fighting Zone for Cyrodiil
• Create a leader boards with and without CP's for the min/maxers and normal players/new players

Now, I'm off back to grinding up my Templar another 5 levels

Edit: To make it look more purdy.

Great constructive post

xX_BLUDWULF_Xx

I am very much in agreement with the op here!

While the current system is flawed and doesn't allow new players to have a fighting chance against tryhards who have been playing since launch, I feel Zos did the right thing (at least until they get this issue sorted out), I would not like to see this game become like all the other MMORPG's out there. The community has been up in arms about receiving new content and in order to deliver it Zos had no other choice but to add new VR lvls. I'm not sure what the right fix would be but I do enjoy leveling and getting new and improved gear through grinding or crafting.

If youtubers are unhappy about certain changes in the game, I certainly don't expect them to sit on their hands and say nothing. However, I do feel the youtuber and and thread in question here was a wee bit melodramatic and it was downright disappointing for one of that caliber (as well as having received as much support from Zos as they had) to attempt to shame and all but threaten Zos with their inflated sense of self and attempt to sway their subs in such a way.

I am glad the op had the courage to stand up and voice their own opinion rather than to fall in line with the rest of the lemmings.

I just needed to be said.