ZOS, when do we get confirmation of whether V16 comes or goes?

Zheg

ZOS has had the weekend to reflect on their decision to unleash V16, and on the *** storm that followed from their playerbase as the overwhelming negative feedback plastered the forums.

Regardless of where you land on the spectrum, two facts remain:

1. If ZOS goes ahead and ups the cap to v16 in the next few months, there's almost no point in farming/buying/upgrading top-end gear since it will become outclassed by whatever comes in the next major update. Therefore, what's the point in spending AP to buy pvp gear, farming vet DSA, trials, undaunted sets, etc?
2. If ZOS does NOT go ahead with the cap increase to V16, this will almost assuredly delay the release of Imperial City (yet again...). What would the adjusted timeline look like?

I have zero sympathy for the position ZOS is in right now, because they have only themselves to blame for even considering the level cap increase in the first place. Regardless, when are we going to know whether or not this is actually coming down the pipe? While the outraged feedback didn't take us by surprise, it seemed to somehow take ZOS by surprise. Previously you'd adjust your plans based on strong player feedback; I remember once upon a time praising you for doing so back in the early stages of the game's life. Lately though it seems like you've abandoned that perspective and adopted one that insists on close to zero communication. I honestly have no idea which path you're going to take on this, but leaving your players in limbo for another 2 months simply won't cut it.

So ZOS, tell me, can I continue to upgrade gear to gold, farm v14 and 12 sets, and spend my AP on pvp gear with the confidence that this effort and these resources won't be an utter waste in 2 or so months? OR, should I be expecting Imperial City to be delayed yet again while you undo the damage from the genius/es that decided to increase the cap to v16?

We all know that ZOS moves at a glacial pace (notice the irony that they just released that ridiculous ice horse -_-), and that more info on Imperial City is supposed to come on the 13th, but players will be flipping tables if ZOS stays silent on this for months without letting players know what they've decided (as they are prone to do...).

danno8

I don't love the idea of re-gearing my VR14's, but really, this is the same thing that happens in all mmo's when they release information about upcoming level increases. Every one stops buying/upgrading and starts hoarding.

That said, we have been at VR14 for nearly a full year, so it is hardly surprising they are increasing it. I'd imagine VR14 gear will be only a few % less efficient than VR16 gear, similar to VR12--> VR14, so replacing piece by piece is easy enough.

Curious to see what new sets they come up with.

IcyDeadPeople

OP, this game is never going to reach a point where you have a permanent maximum level and can just sit back and never worry about upgrading your gear again.

I imagine about every 6 months or so, there will be an update with some new content, new gear sets and higher gear levels.

Even if/when VR levels are removed, there is always going to be some sort of progression where higher levels of gear are added to the game. Probably tied to Champion Rank, for example.

Personally I don't mind grinding out a couple new VR levels every once in a while, earning gold to get new sets, trying out new builds.

I'm more concerned about improvements to the enlightenment system, some way for players to "catch up" on Champion Points if they take a break from the game for a few months or simply aren't excited about the prospect of grinding several hours every day for the next few years to remain competitive in Cyrodiil.
.

OzJohnD

yep, lock us into V14 for ever ... no in game progression, no new content ... no reason to play ESO after 12 months of same old, same old

protecting the emotional value of V14 gear (only pixals folks !) is not a smart business model ... people are not happy with the Champion points system that keeps the level at V14 but increasingly buffs the stats of a toon, reward for effort and all that

with having decided to remove the pay to play model something has to keep the player base interested in paying for ESO+ and Crowns ... they do need to tread carefully, if it becomes pay to win the game will die for casuals and it will become an elitist niche PvP game

Zheg

Some of the commenters seem to be confused about the post and think I'm somehow advocating for a permanent cap on gear - I'm not. This will be the third level cap raise in about a year and a half; most major mmorpgs have one, or zero level cap raises in that time period.

I'm all for new gear sets and upgrades, but not tied to the veteran system. If vet levels must stay, if ZOS would let us spend 100 or 200 of the corresponding mat to upgrade a gear piece by 1 vet level, that would probably alleviate a lot of the pains of trying to keep up with ZOS's insistence on new vet levels every time they release a few new quests. The fact that we had 2 cap raises for craglorn alone should speak volumes.

My grumpiness arises from the fact that ZOS said we'll have v16 soon, didn't foresee how many players hate that idea, and from Gina's posts late last week, it seems like there's at least a viable chance they might reverse their decision. This ambiguity is what I'd like an answer to. I'm probably not going to like either answer they give (see my OP and the only 2 options I see being possible), but what I DON'T want them to do is wait another 8 weeks and keep us in the dark like they usually do. If they're dead set on v16, fine, say so and confirm. If they're having serious second thoughts, say so.

The player economy is all over the place because we have no idea which way they're going to go.

Smiteye

Zheg wrote: »

Some of the commenters seem to be confused about the post and think I'm somehow advocating for a permanent cap on gear - I'm not. This will be the third level cap raise in about a year and a half; most major mmorpgs have one, or zero level cap raises in that time period.

I'm all for new gear sets and upgrades, but not tied to the veteran system. If vet levels must stay, if ZOS would let us spend 100 or 200 of the corresponding mat to upgrade a gear piece by 1 vet level, that would probably alleviate a lot of the pains of trying to keep up with ZOS's insistence on new vet levels every time they release a few new quests. The fact that we had 2 cap raises for craglorn alone should speak volumes.

My grumpiness arises from the fact that ZOS said we'll have v16 soon, didn't foresee how many players hate that idea, and from Gina's posts late last week, it seems like there's at least a viable chance they might reverse their decision. This ambiguity is what I'd like an answer to. I'm probably not going to like either answer they give (see my OP and the only 2 options I see being possible), but what I DON'T want them to do is wait another 8 weeks and keep us in the dark like they usually do. If they're dead set on v16, fine, say so and confirm. If they're having serious second thoughts, say so.

The player economy is all over the place because we have no idea which way they're going to go.

This is why I dont care and am happy v16 is coming:

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Absolutely agreed, and honestly, it's fun to see something ticking up! That's why people are playing RPG's and not Chess. You want to see some persistence.

This is a very, very soft reset... people really should understand that their gear is not outmoded by it, and most people will earn the ranks in short enough order just by playing, while looking to replace a lot of the gear with new set bonuses that don't even currently exist anyways out of what you're currently using. If anyone truly believes that, somehow, under a half of one percent in stats, which equates to typically under a fifteenth of one percent in damage/healing output or other combat performance, is gimping them... don't. That's not anyone's problem. See below for proof:



The entire 5-piece set will differ by a grand total in this example, by 4 magicka recovery, 33 max magicka, and 6 spell damage, before minor percentage boosts such as a spell pot (20%, so you'd end up with an extra 7.2 spell damage rating here). That equates to, depending on the skill, a whopping 7-9 damage or healing between the magicka increase and spell damage rating increase, on what you normally deal (typically in the several-thousand range for a nuke or direct heal).

Let's take a simple example of a player that normally heals for 6991 with their Blessing of Protection. Moving from VR12 to VR14 gear when using the Arch-Mage set for them, would bring it to around 7000 even. Here comes the math... :

7000 divided by 6991 = 1.00128.

What does this mean? For the less mathematically inclined... that means you are gaining about 1.3... tenths... of ONE percent. As you can probably imagine... it's statistically nothing, and essentially so small it could easily be mistaken for a margin of error/near-rounding difference.

EDIT: Misplaced decimals in a prior immediate edit before going AFK a few. Fixed!

It's new stuff to chase after... RPG stuff. In an RPG. Surprising? Wanna see huge your-gear-sucks-and-is-worthless, go play Warcraft!

Majic

Guided By Kobayashi

It doesn't matter. The damage is done. Sticking with VR16 would be bad, and backpedaling would be just as bad. The game is clearly rudderless now, and the only thing that can save it is a commitment from ZOS to do so.

This ain't it.

Sorry to sound so bitter, but this is like watching someone you respect and admire slap on a propeller beanie, drop to the floor and start doing The "Curly Spin" for ten minutes.

May sanity eventually prevail.

Zheg

Smiteye wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Some of the commenters seem to be confused about the post and think I'm somehow advocating for a permanent cap on gear - I'm not. This will be the third level cap raise in about a year and a half; most major mmorpgs have one, or zero level cap raises in that time period.

I'm all for new gear sets and upgrades, but not tied to the veteran system. If vet levels must stay, if ZOS would let us spend 100 or 200 of the corresponding mat to upgrade a gear piece by 1 vet level, that would probably alleviate a lot of the pains of trying to keep up with ZOS's insistence on new vet levels every time they release a few new quests. The fact that we had 2 cap raises for craglorn alone should speak volumes.

My grumpiness arises from the fact that ZOS said we'll have v16 soon, didn't foresee how many players hate that idea, and from Gina's posts late last week, it seems like there's at least a viable chance they might reverse their decision. This ambiguity is what I'd like an answer to. I'm probably not going to like either answer they give (see my OP and the only 2 options I see being possible), but what I DON'T want them to do is wait another 8 weeks and keep us in the dark like they usually do. If they're dead set on v16, fine, say so and confirm. If they're having serious second thoughts, say so.

The player economy is all over the place because we have no idea which way they're going to go.

This is why I dont care and am happy v16 is coming:

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Absolutely agreed, and honestly, it's fun to see something ticking up! That's why people are playing RPG's and not Chess. You want to see some persistence.

This is a very, very soft reset... people really should understand that their gear is not outmoded by it, and most people will earn the ranks in short enough order just by playing, while looking to replace a lot of the gear with new set bonuses that don't even currently exist anyways out of what you're currently using. If anyone truly believes that, somehow, under a half of one percent in stats, which equates to typically under a fifteenth of one percent in damage/healing output or other combat performance, is gimping them... don't. That's not anyone's problem. See below for proof:



The entire 5-piece set will differ by a grand total in this example, by 4 magicka recovery, 33 max magicka, and 6 spell damage, before minor percentage boosts such as a spell pot (20%, so you'd end up with an extra 7.2 spell damage rating here). That equates to, depending on the skill, a whopping 7-9 damage or healing between the magicka increase and spell damage rating increase, on what you normally deal (typically in the several-thousand range for a nuke or direct heal).

Let's take a simple example of a player that normally heals for 6991 with their Blessing of Protection. Moving from VR12 to VR14 gear when using the Arch-Mage set for them, would bring it to around 7000 even. Here comes the math... :

7000 divided by 6991 = 1.00128.

What does this mean? For the less mathematically inclined... that means you are gaining about 1.3... tenths... of ONE percent. As you can probably imagine... it's statistically nothing, and essentially so small it could easily be mistaken for a margin of error/near-rounding difference.

EDIT: Misplaced decimals in a prior immediate edit before going AFK a few. Fixed!

It's new stuff to chase after... RPG stuff. In an RPG. Surprising? Wanna see huge your-gear-sucks-and-is-worthless, go play Warcraft!

And what about the v12 undaunted helms? What happens when there are better v16 options? How about we compare the armor stats on v12 to v16 for a heavy helm. Sure, it's not game breaking, but for min maxers, it certainly does matter. I know the guy you quoted well, he's been a guildie since launch, and trust me ... he's a min maxer. It's not a chicken little scenario as the math shows in most cases, but it's certainly not something I feel the need to rejoice over. Again, ZOS is going to do what they want, and whether 16 comes or not in the next update is all I'm looking for an answer to. I'm simply not going to spend hours farming for a v12 undaunted helm if v16 is right around the corner, and I'm not going to spend my AP buying pvp gear if it's outclassed. If you need proof, go take a look at the prices for v12 martial knowledge vs v14 martial knowledge. Yes, the stat difference is minor, but people still want the best.

As to your last line, as many people have already pointed out, the shiny doesn't need to be a higher level for it to be something to chase after. New gear sets, new skill lines, new passives, new traits, these are all things that accomplish the same goal, but would be more along the lines of the horizonal leveling ZOS needs instead of the constant vertical leveling they insist on.

DayedPSN

That's the point I've been trying to make i get vr14 on console and there's nothing for me to do or motivation for me to do anything because the drops will be Vr14/vr12 all there is to do is pvp what a fail not to mention that in order to get access to the new "content" you will have to most likely be a eso plus member