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Zenimax - my PVP hopes and dreams
This post will probably be the only time I do this... because i am REALLY HOPING the future patches are good.
This discussion is based on my views of the game. This doesn't apply to pve (no offense intended) because pve play for any game is almost always vanilla.
We all know what we saw when we bought the game, we know what was promised.... so I have no intention of regurgitating that.
This is strictly my opinion based on current game play.
I read all the upcoming changes too...
I have read a lot of the forum posts as well.
so quoting things to me about possible changes is not necessary. These are things that I see as being a problem now, and based on what I have read... a possible problem in the future. Some of this is less about problem and more about the level of immersion and I just need to say something... while there is still TIME DANG YOU!
1. This is a two part problem that I feel are affected by each other causing one big problem. Server slowness coupled with Damage output.
Its true that each faction accuses the other of lag-sploitation. flippin on the lag switch (as if a lag switch would affect a server hosted by zenimax for any one player) and landing 5 abilities in "1 second". I'm not talking about macros... the truth is, macroing looks different on the receiving end because it happens much faster in their eyes. This isnt a macro complaint either, and those using scripts is another story entirely. I'm talking about... Server lag.... BANG BANG BANG BANG dead "WTF just happened" I'm talking Roll dodge roll dodge - nothing hitting me.... Dead "WTF just happened". (And not during "raid" time)
The problem with the lag, is that you have abilities that can one or two shot another player. Therefore, anyone behind on the lag curve is getting pow pow pow... wtf just happened?
The server lag is probably just something that will "never get fixed" and in my opinion ALMOST a moot point. When is it a problem...? when a 19k crystal frag is coming at you. Many players not playing a "shield stacking" build or have 50k nirnhoned or 30k HP... this can be the fight... start to finish. Ever wonder why people build those insanely stupid Roll dodge, or blink sustain builds? Well.... kinda hard not wanting to after you just ate a bunch of damage, that on ur screen looked miles away. You cant fix the lag, but you CAN adjust the damage output.
WHY?
Well, I see this as being an issue of all Player combat oriented games. The universal question... what is fair? Well... Zenimax... What is fair is adjusting the damage output to offset the server instability. IN MY OPINION. We aren't talking about new mechanics, we are talking about downgrading existing mechanics to balance out DPS in lieu of Server slowness. You have already acknowledged this scenario by buffing HP when in cyrodiil, I am under the impression that damage output is still to high for the amount of instability in cyrodiil.
2. This bring up the next point. Damage is high, but Shields are higher. (see nirn in number 3 below)
When you have 24/30/40 etc. players... damage mitigation builds can be very useful. Having damage mitigation AND DPS... is not balanced.
We are not talking about playing ur character in a clever way.... Shields are not "resource management" in the same respect as HP or magicka. Stacking a shield based on a resource that ALSO stacks ur DPS... is not resource management. It is being advantageous of a poorly implemented concept.
WHY?
Lets look at classes across the board. I don't need to go into detail on class specifics, because this IS NOT about nerfing a class. This is about adjusting the way that shields stack. The primary reason is that not ALL classes have the same benefits. which is fine. But to provide a defensive tool suggests that it should be scaled off of defensive characteristics (i.e HP, armor type etc). I feel that players should not be able to "have their cake and eat it too". The truth is, suggesting that all players build a resto/dps build with Healing ward.... is kinda silly. The healing for some classes is inherently higher than other classes, but if I was building my character for heals, i wouldn't expect to be smashing people in the face with DPS. If I have HIGH DPS, I don't feel like I should have an insanely high amount of damage sustain... etc.
Again... being clever with ur class/build is one thing. But having more shields than HP, and having them scale the same as DPS (which means that a player can defend and damage for high values in the same press 2 .05 + block .05 + 3 in the same second)
Risk/Reward
I view balancing as a scale. Anytime a player wants to stack up a particular "resource" (DPS, heals, soak, etc) the scale should tip. Meaning LESS of something else. If you want to hide in a bush and smash the next solo player off his horse in 5 seconds.... there should be risks. Risks include... if I dont kill this guy in 5 seconds, I run the risk of getting killed myself. ALTERNATIVELY If I want to play my character so I do some damage and have enough sustain... I don't get to smash someones face in 5 seconds. If I can heal myself and 10 other people while someone bangs on me for 5 minutes, I shouldn't get an ability that does 19k damage. etc etc etc. Risk/Reward. So far... shields and DPS output offer players of particular builds and classes... a LOT of rewards with VERY LITTLE risk. That goes across the board for all classes. This isn't exactly a "build and gear" scenario either. This is resource management for both 1 and 2 being loosely applied universally to all player builds. 60k spell resist shouldnt come with spell penetration too. Having insanely high resource regeneration should mean being out of pool resources sooner and waiting less for them to return. Roll roll roll roll, blink blink blink, roll roll roll... should be used strategically... not... start roll/blink, mid roll/blink, end roll/blink yawn... I think that the risk reward scale is off balanced.
Fighting 1v5 should STATISTICALLY end up with one guy dead and 5 guys scratching their heads wondering what that guy was thinking.... not... "hey 5 guys... come chase me till you run out of resources and im fine... shield shield shield shield"
3. Resistances - need a HARD cap much sooner. For real. hitting some guy for 5-200 damage.... no words. It's not acceptable. Players should not be able to build "raid boss".
4. Stamina/Magicka builds = Buff up 1 or 2 abilities and do a lot of damage/(for the most part) use more class dynamics and do less damage (when not competing with Nirnhoned and the fact that other classes magicka builds are like stam builds).
1.5 was a change that made weapon damage a thing... I can't be the only one that thinks that it also ushered in the age of the cookie cutter. Kinda took all the fun out of the whole "I can build how I want". I think scaling off of ur mag/stam pool is too heavy.... players should GEAR the results they want.... with minimal returns from their resource pool. If you want heavy weapon damage... it should come from "Weapon Damage" not a crap ton of Stamina.
I think that resources should be for pool ability use exclusively, gear should determine results. Players should get 90% or more results from the gear combos they wear and not from having 50 points in a resource pool. I feel that you created a monster by scaling damage and abilities off of stam/magicka resources. (Excludes champ points, thats something else).
GEAR should be the difference... not part of it.
I have a hunch that if you set the gear combos as the primary "results" gains, and have nil in the resource pool, u'll bring back some unique builds.
5. Raids
Honestly.... "zergs" are here forever and ever... maybe if people could build more creatively with their sets... the raids would be less steel tornado/barrier. Raids provide a real fun sense of team effort.... but... they can also be pretty boring too. All anyone hate whispers me now is "how many barriers do you have?" and "Steel tornado... pew pew" All those class abilities... gathering dust for anyone wanting to run with a keep taking size group. Zerg fights in open field last 15 seconds now a days. Keep defense is "you guys fight here, you guys run around and rez".... Its freaking boring killing the same 20 guys for an hour. Zenimax, you made the scaling the way it is... which means the raid comps are YOUR result. how often do you read "Fun zergs last night... fights were so technical and fun... what an amazing team comp you where running" more like "Break zergs up... prox det sucks... steel tornado lame"
6. Lastly - Show me the PVP gear already.... I want to see if you actually figured out how to make pvp gear a thing.
Carry on.
This discussion is based on my views of the game. This doesn't apply to pve (no offense intended) because pve play for any game is almost always vanilla.
We all know what we saw when we bought the game, we know what was promised.... so I have no intention of regurgitating that.
This is strictly my opinion based on current game play.
I read all the upcoming changes too...
I have read a lot of the forum posts as well.
so quoting things to me about possible changes is not necessary. These are things that I see as being a problem now, and based on what I have read... a possible problem in the future. Some of this is less about problem and more about the level of immersion and I just need to say something... while there is still TIME DANG YOU!
1. This is a two part problem that I feel are affected by each other causing one big problem. Server slowness coupled with Damage output.
Its true that each faction accuses the other of lag-sploitation. flippin on the lag switch (as if a lag switch would affect a server hosted by zenimax for any one player) and landing 5 abilities in "1 second". I'm not talking about macros... the truth is, macroing looks different on the receiving end because it happens much faster in their eyes. This isnt a macro complaint either, and those using scripts is another story entirely. I'm talking about... Server lag.... BANG BANG BANG BANG dead "WTF just happened" I'm talking Roll dodge roll dodge - nothing hitting me.... Dead "WTF just happened". (And not during "raid" time)
The problem with the lag, is that you have abilities that can one or two shot another player. Therefore, anyone behind on the lag curve is getting pow pow pow... wtf just happened?
The server lag is probably just something that will "never get fixed" and in my opinion ALMOST a moot point. When is it a problem...? when a 19k crystal frag is coming at you. Many players not playing a "shield stacking" build or have 50k nirnhoned or 30k HP... this can be the fight... start to finish. Ever wonder why people build those insanely stupid Roll dodge, or blink sustain builds? Well.... kinda hard not wanting to after you just ate a bunch of damage, that on ur screen looked miles away. You cant fix the lag, but you CAN adjust the damage output.
WHY?
Well, I see this as being an issue of all Player combat oriented games. The universal question... what is fair? Well... Zenimax... What is fair is adjusting the damage output to offset the server instability. IN MY OPINION. We aren't talking about new mechanics, we are talking about downgrading existing mechanics to balance out DPS in lieu of Server slowness. You have already acknowledged this scenario by buffing HP when in cyrodiil, I am under the impression that damage output is still to high for the amount of instability in cyrodiil.
2. This bring up the next point. Damage is high, but Shields are higher. (see nirn in number 3 below)
When you have 24/30/40 etc. players... damage mitigation builds can be very useful. Having damage mitigation AND DPS... is not balanced.
We are not talking about playing ur character in a clever way.... Shields are not "resource management" in the same respect as HP or magicka. Stacking a shield based on a resource that ALSO stacks ur DPS... is not resource management. It is being advantageous of a poorly implemented concept.
WHY?
Lets look at classes across the board. I don't need to go into detail on class specifics, because this IS NOT about nerfing a class. This is about adjusting the way that shields stack. The primary reason is that not ALL classes have the same benefits. which is fine. But to provide a defensive tool suggests that it should be scaled off of defensive characteristics (i.e HP, armor type etc). I feel that players should not be able to "have their cake and eat it too". The truth is, suggesting that all players build a resto/dps build with Healing ward.... is kinda silly. The healing for some classes is inherently higher than other classes, but if I was building my character for heals, i wouldn't expect to be smashing people in the face with DPS. If I have HIGH DPS, I don't feel like I should have an insanely high amount of damage sustain... etc.
Again... being clever with ur class/build is one thing. But having more shields than HP, and having them scale the same as DPS (which means that a player can defend and damage for high values in the same press 2 .05 + block .05 + 3 in the same second)
Risk/Reward
I view balancing as a scale. Anytime a player wants to stack up a particular "resource" (DPS, heals, soak, etc) the scale should tip. Meaning LESS of something else. If you want to hide in a bush and smash the next solo player off his horse in 5 seconds.... there should be risks. Risks include... if I dont kill this guy in 5 seconds, I run the risk of getting killed myself. ALTERNATIVELY If I want to play my character so I do some damage and have enough sustain... I don't get to smash someones face in 5 seconds. If I can heal myself and 10 other people while someone bangs on me for 5 minutes, I shouldn't get an ability that does 19k damage. etc etc etc. Risk/Reward. So far... shields and DPS output offer players of particular builds and classes... a LOT of rewards with VERY LITTLE risk. That goes across the board for all classes. This isn't exactly a "build and gear" scenario either. This is resource management for both 1 and 2 being loosely applied universally to all player builds. 60k spell resist shouldnt come with spell penetration too. Having insanely high resource regeneration should mean being out of pool resources sooner and waiting less for them to return. Roll roll roll roll, blink blink blink, roll roll roll... should be used strategically... not... start roll/blink, mid roll/blink, end roll/blink yawn... I think that the risk reward scale is off balanced.
Fighting 1v5 should STATISTICALLY end up with one guy dead and 5 guys scratching their heads wondering what that guy was thinking.... not... "hey 5 guys... come chase me till you run out of resources and im fine... shield shield shield shield"
3. Resistances - need a HARD cap much sooner. For real. hitting some guy for 5-200 damage.... no words. It's not acceptable. Players should not be able to build "raid boss".
4. Stamina/Magicka builds = Buff up 1 or 2 abilities and do a lot of damage/(for the most part) use more class dynamics and do less damage (when not competing with Nirnhoned and the fact that other classes magicka builds are like stam builds).
1.5 was a change that made weapon damage a thing... I can't be the only one that thinks that it also ushered in the age of the cookie cutter. Kinda took all the fun out of the whole "I can build how I want". I think scaling off of ur mag/stam pool is too heavy.... players should GEAR the results they want.... with minimal returns from their resource pool. If you want heavy weapon damage... it should come from "Weapon Damage" not a crap ton of Stamina.
I think that resources should be for pool ability use exclusively, gear should determine results. Players should get 90% or more results from the gear combos they wear and not from having 50 points in a resource pool. I feel that you created a monster by scaling damage and abilities off of stam/magicka resources. (Excludes champ points, thats something else).
GEAR should be the difference... not part of it.
I have a hunch that if you set the gear combos as the primary "results" gains, and have nil in the resource pool, u'll bring back some unique builds.
5. Raids
Honestly.... "zergs" are here forever and ever... maybe if people could build more creatively with their sets... the raids would be less steel tornado/barrier. Raids provide a real fun sense of team effort.... but... they can also be pretty boring too. All anyone hate whispers me now is "how many barriers do you have?" and "Steel tornado... pew pew" All those class abilities... gathering dust for anyone wanting to run with a keep taking size group. Zerg fights in open field last 15 seconds now a days. Keep defense is "you guys fight here, you guys run around and rez".... Its freaking boring killing the same 20 guys for an hour. Zenimax, you made the scaling the way it is... which means the raid comps are YOUR result. how often do you read "Fun zergs last night... fights were so technical and fun... what an amazing team comp you where running" more like "Break zergs up... prox det sucks... steel tornado lame"
6. Lastly - Show me the PVP gear already.... I want to see if you actually figured out how to make pvp gear a thing.
Carry on.
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