Lets discuss the difficulty of ESO and how we can make it better

co-ax

So let me get straight to the point. ESO is just painstakingly easy. So far I have reached level 30 and the only time I have died is when I decided to fight monsters of a much higher level than myself.
I get that you do not want to frustrate your players with content that's a bit too hard early on but honestly the way it is now is insulting to the player base.

Yeah I am sure there has been hundreds of guys before me that complained and rightly so. You guys have some great content in your game and it is all ruined by it being too simple. There are champions on the map that I thought would require some team work from fellow adventurers but I can solo them easily on most occasions. A lot of people are saying that the run from level 1 - 50 is your tutorial, how the hell does that not send off alarm bells to the game designers??!!?

Yeah there are the veteran levels that are supposed to be a bit more of a challenge but people need to get past all the mindless *** before that and I can guarantee you a lot of people will just quit because the game just isn't stimulating enough to keep you engaged.

I believe the game was harder at some point, I honestly wish I could of played it then rather. If it is such a big issue about difficulty maybe just create 2 instances of the servers where 1 is for those who prefer easy mode and 1 is for those who enjoy challenging themselves.

If it stays like this I know for a fact I will never start a new character which is quite a shame. hope something get done about this and my faith in this game is restored.

thanks for listening.

ciao

KerinKor

This game was never harder 1-50, the VR levels were only 'hard' due to over-buffing of mobs not due to an innate change of mechanics .. taking 3-4 mins to kill a pack of 3 mobs isn't 'hard', it's simply 'tedious'.

The only content that WAS harder were the forced-solo content. Originally you cold over-level it if you struggled but then ZOS changed it so they level-scale, at which point they had to tone down the encounters otherwise a significant percentage of players would never have completed the Main Story.

Talcon

co-ax wrote: »

So let me get straight to the point. ESO is just painstakingly easy. So far I have reached level 30 and the only time I have died is when I decided to fight monsters of a much higher level than myself.
I get that you do not want to frustrate your players with content that's a bit too hard early on but honestly the way it is now is insulting to the player base.

Yeah I am sure there has been hundreds of guys before me that complained and rightly so. You guys have some great content in your game and it is all ruined by it being too simple. There are champions on the map that I thought would require some team work from fellow adventurers but I can solo them easily on most occasions. A lot of people are saying that the run from level 1 - 50 is your tutorial, how the hell does that not send off alarm bells to the game designers??!!?

Yeah there are the veteran levels that are supposed to be a bit more of a challenge but people need to get past all the mindless *** before that and I can guarantee you a lot of people will just quit because the game just isn't stimulating enough to keep you engaged.

I believe the game was harder at some point, I honestly wish I could of played it then rather. If it is such a big issue about difficulty maybe just create 2 instances of the servers where 1 is for those who prefer easy mode and 1 is for those who enjoy challenging themselves.

If it stays like this I know for a fact I will never start a new character which is quite a shame. hope something get done about this and my faith in this game is restored.

thanks for listening.

ciao

KerinKor wrote: »

This game was never harder 1-50, the VR levels were only 'hard' due to over-buffing of mobs not due to an innate change of mechanics .. taking 3-4 mins to kill a pack of 3 mobs isn't 'hard', it's simply 'tedious'.

The only content that WAS harder were the forced-solo content. Originally you cold over-level it if you struggled but then ZOS changed it so they level-scale, at which point they had to tone down the encounters otherwise a significant percentage of players would never have completed the Main Story.

Both so very correct! I hope they make this game harder at some point, its just sad atm.

slipHAZARD

I do kind of agree with the OP. With the exception of a couple bosses I've never really felt any sort of real danger engaging an enemy. I don't consider it as game breaking as the OP and I am enjoying my time. Still only being very early early on in the game I can't really say anything needs to be done.

Qyrk

They are already in talks in implementing scaling difficulty in dungeons, but this is just discussions and no concrete plans are set in place.

I do feel for all you new people who are currently steamrolling through the game. It didn't used to be this way as people like us oldies that get to play with the original difficulty was challenged (original doshia anyone?); But many were vocal to say it's too hard. Zos listened to the latter and we are where we are now. With the implementation of CP, it further made it easier for those of us that have alts running with 200+ CP.

In a nutshell, because they were trying to please the many of the past, they aren't able to please the many of today's population. I feel for ZOS, Damned if you, damned if you don't. I am very pleased that they are discussing scaling difficulties, but don't expect it's going to be implemented soon.

wafcatb14_ESO

They actually made some of the quest boss fights easier, because so many people whined about it was too hard etc.
Game is a snooze fest sadly it will be another year before any of the games my guild are looking at release.

SanderBuraas

I think they should increase the damage and health of enemies and bosses you face between level one to fifty, as it currently is too easy and feels like a grind to many.

spawn10459

Make leveling faster.
Make leveling in Vet zones faster.

Game fixed.

Alcast

First People QQed bc Vet Rank mobs too hard. > Zenimax nerfed all mobs.

Now People complain its too easy (And it always was freaking easy anyway but with CP its even worse)> Lets see what ZOS does next.

FancyTuna8

Take off your armor. Problem solved. Or play with lesser weapons. I'm sure you can de-power yourself sufficiently to be challenged. I usually keep a piece of chest armor around that I like the look of, but it is nowhere near as good as what I am finding now. I put it on when I'm just wandering about or don't seem challenged at all. I just can't imagine that your character build is so good that even playing appropriately leveled content you can't find a challenge playing with just some pieces of armor or lowly crafted weapons and armor your character made, no enchantments, etc....and no, I'm not saying run around naked. You can have your character wear non-armor clothes, at the least. It is fun to adventure in the Servant's Clothes costume.

Gidorick

I think there are issues involving the core game mechanics that contribute to this. Mobs being static and not dynamically roaming the country side is a big part of it. Outleveling is another issue.

Shunravi

FancyTuna8 wrote: »

Take off your armor. Problem solved. Or play with lesser weapons. I'm sure you can de-power yourself sufficiently to be challenged. I usually keep a piece of chest armor around that I like the look of, but it is nowhere near as good as what I am finding now. I put it on when I'm just wandering about or don't seem challenged at all. I just can't imagine that your character build is so good that even playing appropriately leveled content you can't find a challenge playing with just some pieces of armor or lowly crafted weapons and armor your character made, no enchantments, etc....and no, I'm not saying run around naked. You can have your character wear non-armor clothes, at the least. It is fun to adventure in the Servant's Clothes costume.

I hate this suggestion.


Besides, all my alts who are still leveling are still wearing lvl 8 armor well into the vet zones. And its often broken.

GreySix

IMO, difficulty sliders are an answer, since much of the game is instanced anyway.

eventide03b14a_ESO

The problem is the same as any MMO. You have a range of people with different playstyles, gear, and aptitude. If you make it harder people will complain it's too hard. If you make it easier people will complain it's too easy. If you are finding the game too easy it's because you are not challenging yourself. Sure much of the solo content is easy if you are competent, but try doing some Craglorn group delves solo and you'll start to see content that's a bit more challenging. I don't think coming onto the forums and complaining that the solo content is too easy is very useful.

Sausage

Theres harder stuff when you go further. LVL 30 is still like learning the game. I bet you wipe alot when you go first time to Vet Banished Cell. But its true that this game is alot easier than it was at PC launch, due to endgame tweaking. I had some fun time soloing Group Public Dungeon, I suggest you try to do the same.

PlaceboSoul

Really? So many people want the enemies to have more hp and damage? This is only an artificial difficulty increase, why in Hell would anyone want this? Enemies the same difficulty but take twice as long to kill? Ludicrous.

The only difficulty increase I would be on board with is an increase to the tactics/ai of enemies. Enemies that use more skills like the player, time their attacks/blocks/dodges better. If I have to think and tactically strategize more to kill an enemy, great. If the enemy is still using the same tactics, is just as easy as before, but just takes twice as long to kill because it's a damage sponge, whittling down my weapon and armor charges/condition, no thanks.

I would love "smarter" enemies, bring them on any time, but please Zenimax, don't cave to the people wanting damage and hp increases; no one after any intelligent thought wants to take twice as long to kill enemies that are actually just as easy to kill.

FancyTuna8

Shunravi wrote: »

I hate this suggestion.

Besides, all my alts who are still leveling are still wearing lvl 8 armor well into the vet zones. And its often broken.

You hate me suggesting the player tries to fix the issue themselves?

Not sure what you mean by often broken. Have you tried fighting with just a single one-handed weapon, or only chest and leg armor, or simply clothing? If it is that easy, why not also take off an assigned power or two? How is this any different than them re-writing the math functions to make it harder? Yes, programming difficult enemy tactics in would be great, but I'd imagine a very hard fix. Any difficulty change is likely to be harder stats or more enemies at once, etc...my suggestion is to alter the math function yourself. Or try the Dark Souls games for a break--I believe the enemies adapt to your tactics, and dying is a decently severe punishment.

GreySix

It seems that clever enemies are to be found in PvP.

Shunravi

FancyTuna8 wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

I hate this suggestion.

Besides, all my alts who are still leveling are still wearing lvl 8 armor well into the vet zones. And its often broken.

You hate me suggesting the player tries to fix the issue themselves?

Not sure what you mean by often broken. Have you tried fighting with just a single one-handed weapon, or only chest and leg armor, or simply clothing? If it is that easy, why not also take off an assigned power or two? How is this any different than them re-writing the math functions to make it harder? Yes, programming difficult enemy tactics in would be great, but I'd imagine a very hard fix. Any difficulty change is likely to be harder stats or more enemies at once, etc...my suggestion is to alter the math function yourself. Or try the Dark Souls games for a break--I believe the enemies adapt to your tactics, and dying is a decently severe punishment.

Yes, I hate when people suggest ignoring 1/3 of the game (gear, itemization, skill progression.) Especially since crafting was supposed to be such a big thing in this game. But when you actually make crafted armor instead of just using trash drops, everything becomes even more trivial.

Now, yes, better ai would be great. At the very least the could add more mob synergies like they did with fire and oil.

And what i mean by broken is having 0 durability, which renders it useless.

Ive done nearly everything possible that you could suggest. But this is an mmo post WoW i dont expect much. But i will continue to express my opinions on the matter, and i apologise if you are offended by my comment

Shunravi

GreySix wrote: »

It seems that clever enemies are to be found in PvP.

Too true

Even then though...

co-ax

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

The problem is the same as any MMO. You have a range of people with different playstyles, gear, and aptitude. If you make it harder people will complain it's too hard. If you make it easier people will complain it's too easy. If you are finding the game too easy it's because you are not challenging yourself. Sure much of the solo content is easy if you are competent, but try doing some Craglorn group delves solo and you'll start to see content that's a bit more challenging. I don't think coming onto the forums and complaining that the solo content is too easy is very useful.

You see I am not arrogant enough to just speak for myself. I have asked many people if they felt the same way and everyone I have spoken to have said the same thing. I have seen so many people say that level 1-50 is like a tutorial.
I am not going to run around naked so that I can have a challenging game when the developers could take constructive feedback and actually balance their game properly. I would say if anything, the people who struggle in the early stages of the game need to go back to easier zones and level appropriately until they are capable of clearing the next zone.
Champions on the map are also not compulsory so why then make them so easy? Why not make the champions harder for the guys looking for a decent challenge?

Flameheart

Solo questing content could be somewhat harder, but why ? To make the quest/ep grind even more tedious ?

Solo content is not the measure and has never been a measure in MMOs (ok, ok, in good old Everquest maybe).

I just compare leveling 1-V14 concerning my nightblade and my templar.

My nightblade was my first char I leveled. I had no CPs, no access to superior crafted outfits and weapons on my nightblade and I had not a clue HOW to level my char skillwise. I never leveled any resto staff abilities for self healing. I remember painful deaths while attempting world bosses or boring waiting for another player or group to leech a boss kill.

Then I leveled my templar. I had around 100 CPs, I had blue crafted set armor and weapons...and the most important...it was a freaking templar and I had a god like spell called Puncturing Sweep. Now the art wasn't surviving, the art was to pull up to 20+ zombies in areas packed with such mobs, without losing one because of reset :-)

Class makes a difference. I guess there is nothing more easy out there as leveling a templar. Not that you are just able to masskill everything, you are able to level all the skills and morphs you want ultra fast, because all you ever need is Puncturing Sweep. Just clutter your skill bar with all the other skills you want to raise.

Funkopotamus

KerinKor wrote: »

This game was never harder 1-50, the VR levels were only 'hard' due to over-buffing of mobs not due to an innate change of mechanics .. taking 3-4 mins to kill a pack of 3 mobs isn't 'hard', it's simply 'tedious'.

.

To my knowledge when the game was in its very first stages it was a lot harder and people were having trouble soloing even pirates at lower levels. Players were forced to play the game like an MMO.

The game actually had a MMO type of UI like has been seen already via Data mined Hard Drives.

But all of that was scrapped due to the outcry of the few ES fans that did not want this to be like any other MMO. So all of that was reworked into what we have now.

Thank them with a punch in the face for me if you ever see one because I would bet money that anyone that wanted those changes are not even playing anymore!

Shunravi

Flameheart wrote: »

Solo questing content could be somewhat harder, but why ? To make the quest/ep grind even more tedious ?

Solo content is not the measure and has never been a measure in MMOs (ok, ok, in good old Everquest maybe).

I just compare leveling 1-V14 concerning my nightblade and my templar.

My nightblade was my first char I leveled. I had no CPs, no access to superior crafted outfits and weapons on my nightblade and I had not a clue HOW to level my char skillwise. I never leveled any resto staff abilities for self healing. I remember painful deaths while attempting world bosses or boring waiting for another player or group to leech a boss kill.

Then I leveled my templar. I had around 100 CPs, I had blue crafted set armor and weapons...and the most important...it was a freaking templar and I had a god like spell called Puncturing Sweep. Now the art wasn't surviving, the art was to pull up to 20+ zombies in areas packed with such mobs, without losing one because of reset :-)

Class makes a difference. I guess there is nothing more easy out there as leveling a templar. Not that you are just able to masskill everything, you are able to level all the skills and morphs you want ultra fast, because all you ever need is Puncturing Sweep. Just clutter your skill bar with all the other skills you want to raise.

You arent the only launch nightblade here. And a good amount of the time on my alts was before 1.6

Flameheart

Shunravi wrote: »

You arent the only launch nightblade here. And a good amount of the time on my alts was before 1.6

I even guessd so, but I still can not understand why people are annoyed by solo content difficulty and on the other side rage against quest/ep grind.

As a game developer I would just think "well a few like this, a few other want that...hey everything is alright then, topic closed".

If some people want harder solo content...go to Craglorn and pull some wasps.

Shunravi

Flameheart wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

You arent the only launch nightblade here. And a good amount of the time on my alts was before 1.6

I even guessd so, but I still can not understand why people are annoyed by solo content difficulty and on the other side rage against quest/ep grind.

As a game developer I would just think "well a few like this, a few other want that...hey everything is alright then, topic closed".

If some people want harder solo content...go to Craglorn and pull some wasps.

Well, my problem is that the only things im not soloing are trials and most vet dungeons.

I really dont think it should be that way. (Pre 1.6 too, this isnt a champion point thing)

delphwind_ESO

As a new player (last time I played was in beta) I agree the game is FAR too easy.

80%+ of the time I am playing with my wife, the content is easy enough solo but when we are together it is really just beyond face roll.

When you spend the first 50 levels killing mobs in 1-2 GCDs do you really think you are going to be prepared for group content, or even vet content? ZOS is losing players because they steam roll the content, then step into a dungeon or vet area and get chumped. Then they rush to the forums, complain the game is too hard and unsub.

Scale up the content difficulty, not so much that you force out your casual player base, or make it take ages to kill a single trash mob, but you could likely double the mobs health pools and at least they would survive a single rotation of a DPS class, maybe 2-3 rotations of a healer or tank.

To the person above suggesting we gimp ourselves by removing gear, or using a single one handed weapon, GTFO. I, like many others, take pride in advancing my character and part of that is finding and maximizing my gear. Just because this is currently unbalanced with 2/3 of the game does not mean I should ignore a part of the game that many people enjoy, character advancement.

co-ax

Flameheart wrote: »

Solo questing content could be somewhat harder, but why ? To make the quest/ep grind even more tedious ?

Are you telling me beating down a million mobs without using your brain is less tedious? Making quests bland without challenge only adds more tedium so I do not understand how you could say that.

eventide03b14a_ESO

The issue isn't difficulty, it's lack of new content. We haven't had anything new since the justice system and that isn't even the completed version. Too much wasted time on the console launch has left those of us playing on PC in the dust. I want what was promised a year ago.

Emma_Overload

Funkopotamus wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

This game was never harder 1-50, the VR levels were only 'hard' due to over-buffing of mobs not due to an innate change of mechanics .. taking 3-4 mins to kill a pack of 3 mobs isn't 'hard', it's simply 'tedious'.

.

To my knowledge when the game was in its very first stages it was a lot harder and people were having trouble soloing even pirates at lower levels. Players were forced to play the game like an MMO.

The game actually had a MMO type of UI like has been seen already via Data mined Hard Drives.

But all of that was scrapped due to the outcry of the few ES fans that did not want this to be like any other MMO. So all of that was reworked into what we have now.

Thank them with a punch in the face for me if you ever see one because I would bet money that anyone that wanted those changes are not even playing anymore!

"the outcry of the few ES fans that did not want this to be like any other MMO"!!!

Delusional.

If anything, ZoS pandered too much to MMO traditionalists and drove away many of the hundreds of thousands of ES fans who flocked to this game at PC launch....saddling ESO with a bad reputation that has haunted the console launch for potentially MILLIONS more of those fans. The "bait and switch" endgame that tries to force solo PvE players to group in Craglorn is a serious flaw with this game that ZoS has yet to fix, not to mention the ENDLESS whine/nerf/whine/nerf cycle that results from the devs' coddling of the PvP crybabies that seem to infest all MMOs.

Please stop trying to turn ESO into a WoW clone set in Tamriel, complete with ugly text scrolling all over the screen. The game is already halfway there... and halfway dead as a result.

Shunravi

delphwind_ESO wrote: »

As a new player (last time I played was in beta) I agree the game is FAR too easy.

80%+ of the time I am playing with my wife, the content is easy enough solo but when we are together it is really just beyond face roll.

When you spend the first 50 levels killing mobs in 1-2 GCDs do you really think you are going to be prepared for group content, or even vet content? ZOS is losing players because they steam roll the content, then step into a dungeon or vet area and get chumped. Then they rush to the forums, complain the game is too hard and unsub.

Scale up the content difficulty, not so much that you force out your casual player base, or make it take ages to kill a single trash mob, but you could likely double the mobs health pools and at least they would survive a single rotation of a DPS class, maybe 2-3 rotations of a healer or tank.

To the person above suggesting we gimp ourselves by removing gear, or using a single one handed weapon, GTFO. I, like many others, take pride in advancing my character and part of that is finding and maximizing my gear. Just because this is currently unbalanced with 2/3 of the game does not mean I should ignore a part of the game that many people enjoy, character advancement.

This. So much this.

Ive already stated in this thread that i dont have much hope for dificulty in this mmo era. But I've accepted that (as much as I argue about it.) my biggest concern is that there is little learning curve before stuff that is actually intended for groups. And there is little incentive to run with people and learning group dynamics and making friends. I dont even know wgat the states of guilds would be if they werent already an mmo standard. Heck, grouping can hamper your experience as stated above. Zos' intention with the vet zones was to be a place where it was possible to solo, but it was tough enough to encourage grouping. They said as much when they nerfed it.

And then people hit that wall with group content. And it is a wall, ive run enough pug groups to know.