game still makes you hate being around other players while pveing

GreySix

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Can you expand on how it is "stupid"?.

Thought I'd made that clear, but sure.

Your character enters a dangerous dungeon, only to find most of the enemies already dead and other players everywhere.

Then it makes its way to the big baddie of baddies, only to find a corpse (or more) of the big baddie of baddies.

Your character waits until a new big baddie of baddies spawns, and all the campers leap in to get their licks in on the thing. Maybe your character gets in a lick too.

That is immersion-breaking ... and yes ... stupid.

gard

AngryNord wrote: »

Tennetty wrote: »

Concur. We need instanced Delves.

And then the next demand will be instanced cities? Instanced wilderness? Stop trying to make this game TES:VI, please.

That's ridiculous.

There's a big difference between roaming around in a city or the wilderness fighting random mobs and entering a cave to finish a quest only to find all of the mobs already killed and half a dozen other people camping the boss.
I rolled a new EP toon last night so that I could play with some new guildies that are EP, and that was my experience during pretty much all of Bleakrock. Not much fun.

Pman85

OP- Craglorn is going to suck for you lol

Mike-420

Geez its like theres not a whole world of things to explore yet ya'll are camped on the idea of dungeons...

ffs go find something else to explore theres a whole damn world out there!

Pman85

Mike-420 wrote: »

Geez its like theres not a whole world of things to explore yet ya'll are camped on the idea of dungeons...

ffs go find something else to explore theres a whole damn world out there!

I play on xb1 EP which has a butt load of players, and I find it pretty easy to get away from everyone. I hardly run into anything more than a group of 2 when i am not inside a delve or some cave I found.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

GreySix wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Can you expand on how it is "stupid"?.

Thought I'd made that clear, but sure.

Your character enters a dangerous dungeon, only to find most of the enemies already dead and other players everywhere.

Then it makes its way to the big baddie of baddies, only to find a corpse (or more) of the big baddie of baddies.

Your character waits until a new big baddie of baddies spawns, and all the campers leap in to get their licks in on the thing. Maybe your character gets in a lick too.

That is immersion-breaking ... and yes ... stupid.

This is a MMO. If you want 100% immersion you will want to pick up a single player RPG. MMOs have people playing them.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

gard wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

Tennetty wrote: »

Concur. We need instanced Delves.

And then the next demand will be instanced cities? Instanced wilderness? Stop trying to make this game TES:VI, please.

That's ridiculous.

There's a big difference between roaming around in a city or the wilderness fighting random mobs and entering a cave to finish a quest only to find all of the mobs already killed and half a dozen other people camping the boss.
I rolled a new EP toon last night so that I could play with some new guildies that are EP, and that was my experience during pretty much all of Bleakrock. Not much fun.

It could be fun. You should ask them to let you join their group. Be social.

lsneakl

AngryNord wrote: »

Tennetty wrote: »

Concur. We need instanced Delves.

And then the next demand will be instanced cities? Instanced wilderness? Stop trying to make this game TES:VI, please.

How is asking for at least an instanced boss making this TES:VI? Fighting a boss should take effort not me walking in getting one sword hit while 10 other people kill it instantly.... (by the way these same people who keep killing the same boss over and over)

What needs to happen is you should only get XP and loot drop from bosses you have not already fought or someone in your group has not fought. (if this already exists they need to make it more prevalent that this is the case with an on screen prompt)

lsneakl

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You arent sure where the push back is? You want to limit PUBLIC spaces to only two people.

No. Make the boss-fight in said public spaces instanced, so we don't have to see a bunch of other players camping the darn corpse.

No and No. Public spaces are public spaces. You cant just instance the boss area. They already have a system in place for this. You kill the boss once and you get no loot or xp for I think 15 minutes. Possibly longer I dont remember.

So I was right and it is in place, than make this known. I guarantee you alot of the players in dungeons on console have no idea this is the case. You dont ever see what XP you get from killing something and the only thing you would see is not getting loot which in some cases it likely not the point as people are trying to get the XP bonus from bosses.

Just to be clear I have even refought a boss that appeared after I was messing with inventory, I had no clue that I didnt get any XP I this has probably happened 3 times from level 1 to 21 on Xbox. When I was on MAC last year this system was not on place back when I was playing I dont think.

KerinKor

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

This is a game where they want us to team up..

Which they show by making the entire Main Story and guild quest lines group-only .. er .. wait.

KerinKor

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

<-- Skyrim is that way. This is an MMO, not an all-about-you single player RPG.

Why would anyone want to play a game whose entire game-world is about the same size and TWO of the FIFTEEN faction zones in this one, leaving aside Coldharbour and Craglorn as PVE zones and the massive Cyrodiil PVP zone.

Please note, the 'G' in MMORPG doesn't stand for GROUP .. oh, and BTW the acronym MMO doesn't stand for a 'thing' so you can't use MMO as you did there, just saying.

Pallmor

GreySix wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Can you expand on how it is "stupid"?.

Thought I'd made that clear, but sure.

Your character enters a dangerous dungeon, only to find most of the enemies already dead and other players everywhere.

Then it makes its way to the big baddie of baddies, only to find a corpse (or more) of the big baddie of baddies.

Your character waits until a new big baddie of baddies spawns, and all the campers leap in to get their licks in on the thing. Maybe your character gets in a lick too.

That is immersion-breaking ... and yes ... stupid.

This isn't a single-player game. It's an MMO. Having other people around, impromptu grouping, etc. are part of what makes it fun. If you instance everything to get away from other players, you had may as well save yourself some money and go back to playing Skyrim.

Now right now, the console version is new and a lot of the starter areas are overcrowded. But once things spread out a little you'll see how nice it is to have other players around--particularly with dolmens, world bosses, and particularly tough dungeon bosses.

GreySix

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Can you expand on how it is "stupid"?.

Thought I'd made that clear, but sure.

Your character enters a dangerous dungeon, only to find most of the enemies already dead and other players everywhere.

Then it makes its way to the big baddie of baddies, only to find a corpse (or more) of the big baddie of baddies.

Your character waits until a new big baddie of baddies spawns, and all the campers leap in to get their licks in on the thing. Maybe your character gets in a lick too.

That is immersion-breaking ... and yes ... stupid.

This is a MMO. If you want 100% immersion you will want to pick up a single player RPG. MMOs have people playing them.

Thought I'd made that clear too, but suppose you missed the key statement, so I'll repeat it, paraphrasing to reduce confusion.

Many folks wanted a TES game that facilitated cooperative play. No TES game before ESO accomplished that. Sure, folks attempted mods that would allow cooperative play, but none were successful, and those that worked did so very imperfectly.

So ... ESO came about. Yes, it's an MMO. We all understood that. So is SWTOR. Yet unlike ESO, you don't see gobs of players camping big baddie of baddie corpses, except perhaps for world bosses. If you're grouped, you're in your own world, no gobs of players hanging around corpses within supposedly hard-to-find and even harder-to-defeat locales.

We assumed that ESO would be better at grouping, since that was one of its main draws. Yet it wasn't ... and isn't.

Why is that? How can a game as terrible as SWTOR figure it out, and yet ESO (which came out later) can't?

This isn't a "SWTOR is better than ESO" post, so don't make it out to be. It's about how ESO can be improved - nothing more and nothing less.

gard

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

gard wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

Tennetty wrote: »

Concur. We need instanced Delves.

And then the next demand will be instanced cities? Instanced wilderness? Stop trying to make this game TES:VI, please.

That's ridiculous.

There's a big difference between roaming around in a city or the wilderness fighting random mobs and entering a cave to finish a quest only to find all of the mobs already killed and half a dozen other people camping the boss.
I rolled a new EP toon last night so that I could play with some new guildies that are EP, and that was my experience during pretty much all of Bleakrock. Not much fun.

It could be fun. You should ask them to let you join their group. Be social.

It could be.. if the boss scaled based on the power of the group and if the people camping the boss were grouped to start with. I'd say at least half of the time they are not. I generally do ask to join the group when this happens, only to find after accepting the invite that it's me and one other person.

Nestor

GreySix wrote: »

Then it makes its way to the big baddie of baddies, only to find a corpse (or more) of the big baddie of baddies.

Your character waits until a new big baddie of baddies spawns, and all the campers leap in to get their licks in on the thing. Maybe your character gets in a lick too.

Those are not campers, those are other players waiting to kill the boss too. Just like you are. Camping is not a thing in this game any more.

Once you get out of the first zone, this is less prevalent. No need to change the game because the first zone is crowded.

smtdbplus

This reminds me of pc pvp.

Got killed instantly by 10 players who just want to touch me once to get APs

It is interesting to see things from an opposite direction.

Elloa

This is just because it's the release month. Population will decrease over time and you will be in peace while questing.
Atleast this how it happened on PC. Now, every zone are moderately populated and you can easily be in peace, on your own, and cross sometimes other travelers without being bothered by them.

Acrolas

Player "immersion" is a myth.

In a world filled with smartphones, snacks, and air conditioning, there is no possible way for any medium to create an experience that feels as normal as the life you normally lead. You simply can't shut out the real world and replace it.

Eventually you will have to go to the bathroom. Because that's normal. Immersion is not about grandeur, depth, or heightened experience. Immersion is about normalcy.

Immersion is an alternate representation of how we normally see and experience things. The mechanic is used in the game when Daedra replace reality with dream states. When you really can't differentiate between reality and illusion and need an external force to determine the difference for you, that's immersion. But even that's broken for us in the game because we can see the illusion in a way the affected character can't.

ESO is just a fantasy online game. The jerks and bullies you see in the game are probably pretty *** pathetic in real life. And even in the most intense, gut-wrenching epic group dungeon, if you really have to go to the bathroom you're going to stop playing and go to the bathroom. Because that's normal.

We play games because we want something different than normal. We want illusions, not immersion. Two i-words, two words marketers would love for you to believe mean the same thing. But they don't. Illusion is about experiencing something fantastic and out of the ordinary. Immersion is about experiencing the familiar and ordinary.

nimander99

HexWeaver wrote: »

I like your idea, Final Fantasy 14 is my favourite MMO and most bosses in the game are instanced which result in big epic battles, always a let down when you arrive into the big boss chamber only to find you're lucky if you can even get a hit in before it drops.

The first couple times of a boss fight are epic for you as the new player in said fight but after a while it just becomes a dance you learn the steps to

ElricFrancis

MrDenimChicken wrote: »

I like many of the changes Zenimax has made, but i think it's messed up that I find myself saying: "I can't wait till i get to a higher level zone that has fewer people"...

It's so immersion breaking and dissapointing when I am on a quest to kill some boss at the end of a dungeon, and the whole dungeon is cleared with people just sitting over the boss respawn, only to kill it pretty much instantly. How has this not been changed? It makes me want to just press 11111 for the dialogues for the next 5 quests when something like this happens, because there just isn't a payoff for staying invested in what you are doing anymore. It's kinda of pathetic that this game puts so much investment into the single player questing, with thousands of hours of npc dialogue, only to have a many quests end in such a fizzle.

I get it's an MMO...but I feel like there needs to be some sort of change to fix this. More Instanced dungeons, or that GW2 mechanic where mobs instantly scale up in level depending on how many people are fighting it...just something. I want to actually give a crap about the quests I'm doing.

Well that is an MMO for ya. My issue is the game breaking lack of a decent LFG system in place. It's straight up taken from the original EQ it's so gawd aweful.

zachary4828

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

This is a game where they want us to team up. Putting in solo only instances would be in my opinion a determent to the game.

I agree with you, but the content the OP is talking about isn't challenging enough to group for, in fact, the problem is that any additional people in the area make decent solo content so trivial that you wish there just weren't any mobs at all.

Nobody is asking them to solo instance everything. What we are asking for is for the number of people in an area needed to spawn another instance be reduced. Five people in a delve makes it an MMO, ten+ people in a delve makes it a night club.

I play MMOs because I enjoy seeing real people running around, but there is a limit to the number of people you can have in an area before the atmosphere Zenimax spent so much time creating is ruined.

xoduspaladin

Teiji wrote: »

If the game is becoming a stressful negative experience, you can either get a stressball, play at off-peak times or simply not play. No one is forcing you to get stressed out nor make excuses as to why you can't enjoy quests my friend. I know it may seem that way, but you must find solace in the tranquillity which is Auriel and embrace compassion for your fellow Mer.

Then and only then, can we have an ideal society without the lesser races of beast and man.

Well that is probably what is going to end up happening and the person will not play. That is why ESO is BTP right now in the first place, people simply do not play. Don't know why people offer this as a advice, it comes across condescending for one (stress balls...seriously), and do no favor for the game in the long run.

Back to the issue at hand, I do believe it would have been better that ESO used an instance or scaling feature to make things more challenging, but considering that this has been an issue since day one and they haven't implemented such a thing, I don't see them doing it anytime soon (if at all). The only advice I can give is to try to play at times when no one is going to be playing (like during the day), if it is possible. If not, the only other advice I can offer you is to come back to that quest later on and move on to something else. Neither one of the advice are really appealing, but that is really the only choices you have.

xoduspaladin

hollamears wrote: »

I actually used to get irked about things like this as well my first day or two playing the game, but got over it pretty quickly. I remember the moment I stopped letting myself get upset was when I was doing some quest in one of the hundreds of available temples and the NPC mentioned having an option between fighting or not. I got a little excited and decided I wanted to see how far I could get through it by sneaking, and I got pretty far! But sure enough in came a rush of people who wanted to play differently than me, and that means it changed the environment I was creating for myself a great deal.

That moment made me stop holding onto the solo part of the game (even though it seems encouraged) because really, that's not what it is. I do prefer playing alone but I'm starting to appreciate my play time with others more and more as I do it, especially once I stopped acting as if I was the only player in the game.

What you mentioned can seem frustrating but really, it is what it is. This is an online game that houses thousands of other players and they're all going to play how they want to as well. You kind of just have to accept that's how it's going to be and either find other things to enjoy about it, or realize the game just isn't for you and move onto another game (or just wait for an actual TES sequel, since that isn't what this is).

Yeah, I am pretty much in the same boat right now. For me these days the best immersion I can get is turning off voice chat so I can at the very least concentrate on the story. I pretty much lowered my standard of what immersion is for ESO.

DenMoria

It's a great game that I, unfortunately am playing solo, since, every time I join a group they disappear (I'm assuming they went off on some adventure and left me behind and, since I don't do voice chat, they have no way of getting a hold of me) so I haven't figured out the MMO thing yet (my first one).

I can commiserate with the TC, but have to agree with the others that, once you get above level 10, things really seem to clear out. When I started, I was shocked at the HORDES of people running about willy-nilly like addicts in need of a fix. You'd go in to do one of the early quests and there would be 50 people in the same space!

I've gotten to the point where I don't even worry if there's a boss around anymore. I get a few and others get them too so I don't care. Lord knows the lower level enemies in most of the starting areas will respawn - again and again and again and again and again. I couldn't believe how much experience I got just by hanging out in one place for 10 minutes and killing the same respawns over and over. It was great!

I'll figure out the MMO aspect one of these days.

GreySix

Nestor wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

Then it makes its way to the big baddie of baddies, only to find a corpse (or more) of the big baddie of baddies.

Your character waits until a new big baddie of baddies spawns, and all the campers leap in to get their licks in on the thing. Maybe your character gets in a lick too.

Those are not campers, those are other players waiting to kill the boss too. Just like you are.

I won't waste time arguing semantics. The BLUF is that there are a bunch of players hanging around to re-kill a boss, sometimes its smoking corpse (or two) still lying there.

Whatever the heck you want to term it, it's immersion-breaking ... and stupid.

gard

DenMoria wrote: »

It's a great game that I, unfortunately am playing solo, since, every time I join a group they disappear (I'm assuming they went off on some adventure and left me behind and, since I don't do voice chat, they have no way of getting a hold of me) so I haven't figured out the MMO thing yet (my first one).

I can commiserate with the TC, but have to agree with the others that, once you get above level 10, things really seem to clear out. When I started, I was shocked at the HORDES of people running about willy-nilly like addicts in need of a fix. You'd go in to do one of the early quests and there would be 50 people in the same space!

I've gotten to the point where I don't even worry if there's a boss around anymore. I get a few and others get them too so I don't care. Lord knows the lower level enemies in most of the starting areas will respawn - again and again and again and again and again. I couldn't believe how much experience I got just by hanging out in one place for 10 minutes and killing the same respawns over and over. It was great!

I'll figure out the MMO aspect one of these days.

Could that be because people have given up on the game due to the poor experience they had in the earlier zones?
Hmm.

katnip

I'd like to see encouragement to group while questing. These companies wanting to decrease xp when grp with more than 2 ppl. Everyone does this besides ff11(that I'm aware of), they actually encouraged grouping with Xp boost.

Frenkthevile

sdtlc wrote: »

Not beeing able to kill a delve boss after you killed it once brings us back to make it impossible to help out guildies or friends.

For everyone moaning about immersion breaking: You Sir, you, which believes he's the one and only hero of tamriel, defeating the tremendous evil named Molag Bal, you are breaking the immersion of the one standing next to you, cause he believes the same,....

my two cents

Won the thread.

GreySix

sdtlc wrote: »

For everyone moaning about immersion breaking: You Sir, you, which believes he's the one and only hero of tamriel, defeating the tremendous evil named Molag Bal, you are breaking the immersion of the one standing next to you, cause he believes the same,....

Except that many of us have consistently pointed out that that is also a flaw in ESO's design. No instance should be forced-solo, especially in the main story quest line.

And ESO is the only AAA to get that dead-wrong.

Rinmaethodain

I wonder if OP ever tried to say "please wait, want to group, we need that boss too" or he just silently stared as someone is killing it.

If the latter then OP should blame someone else...

I experienced this many times, someone killing boss just when i was about to hit it. What did i do? Instead of coming to forum and making a sad topic i just waited a bit and killed the boss anyways after he resped. Also i took a lesson and now every time i enter dungeon where i have to kill boss i just /zone telling people that i want to kill X, Y, Z boss please dont kill it, im coming. If noone is there then no problem. If there are people they usually hear me and add me to group or wait for me.