Veteran Rank Conversion to Level 50 Cap (fancy chart included!)

MisterBigglesworth

Here is how I propose the current Veteran Rank system should be converted over into the new system in which level 50 is the level cap.



Starting at level 38, character stats would be roughly equivalent to those of a level 39 character under our current system.
This power difference would gradually increase and would affect gear, potions, food, etc.
For example, a VR6 piece of gear would become a level 46 piece of gear, but would still have all the same stats as it does currently.
Current VR10 Food would become available at level 48.

World and dungeon mobs would obviously have to be adjusted as well so that they don't become too easy to kill.

I think this is probably the smoothest, most elegant way to handle the Vet removal.

@ZOS Thoughts?

Jando

This is what i write in every thread about veteran ranks, including my own, for the last 3-4 months:

The right approach here is not to remove VR's at all, but to reduce the xp to gain each rank to something like 150K. No other system in the game needs to be changed and they can do it in a hotfix. The 14 Veteran ranks essentially become 14 regular levels.

For those who still want a challenge in Cadwell Gold/Silver content: that content can be optimized for something like VR 15-20 and then they can "battle level" all characters up appropriately when entering those zones.

Done..problem solved. No reason it should be taking this long.

Dear Zos...Veteran Ranks are ruining your game...there's an easy fix...just do it!!

Powtreeman

Jando wrote: »

This is what i write in every thread about veteran ranks, including my own, for the last 3-4 months:

The right approach here is not to remove VR's at all, but to reduce the xp to gain each rank to something like 150K. No other system in the game needs to be changed and they can do it in a hotfix. The 14 Veteran ranks essentially become 14 regular levels.

For those who still want a challenge in Cadwell Gold/Silver content: that content can be optimized for something like VR 15-20 and then they can "battle level" all characters up appropriately when entering those zones.

Done..problem solved. No reason it should be taking this long.

Dear Zos...Veteran Ranks are ruining your game...there's an easy fix...just do it!!

If it was 150k I could go from V1 to V14 in an hour and a half :P

Tavore1138

Powtreeman wrote: »

Jando wrote: »

This is what i write in every thread about veteran ranks, including my own, for the last 3-4 months:

The right approach here is not to remove VR's at all, but to reduce the xp to gain each rank to something like 150K. No other system in the game needs to be changed and they can do it in a hotfix. The 14 Veteran ranks essentially become 14 regular levels.

For those who still want a challenge in Cadwell Gold/Silver content: that content can be optimized for something like VR 15-20 and then they can "battle level" all characters up appropriately when entering those zones.

Done..problem solved. No reason it should be taking this long.

Dear Zos...Veteran Ranks are ruining your game...there's an easy fix...just do it!!

If it was 150k I could go from V1 to V14 in an hour and a half :P

Which is what people want.... then they can stop moaning about VR ranks, rush to 'endgame' and moan about lack of content there to help them get CP instead.

Powtreeman

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Powtreeman wrote: »

Jando wrote: »

This is what i write in every thread about veteran ranks, including my own, for the last 3-4 months:

The right approach here is not to remove VR's at all, but to reduce the xp to gain each rank to something like 150K. No other system in the game needs to be changed and they can do it in a hotfix. The 14 Veteran ranks essentially become 14 regular levels.

For those who still want a challenge in Cadwell Gold/Silver content: that content can be optimized for something like VR 15-20 and then they can "battle level" all characters up appropriately when entering those zones.

Done..problem solved. No reason it should be taking this long.

Dear Zos...Veteran Ranks are ruining your game...there's an easy fix...just do it!!

If it was 150k I could go from V1 to V14 in an hour and a half :P

Which is what people want.... then they can stop moaning about VR ranks, rush to 'endgame' and moan about lack of content there to help them get CP instead.

Then they would just whine about how easy and pointless it is to get max level and how useless gear is between lvls

Legedric

Just make people get VR14 instant when they hit level 50 instead of getting VR1... simple change and achieves what most players want. Cadwell's Silver/Gold are fully optional and that's it.

Of course this is onyl a short term solution until they remove the VR entirely.

Shouldn't take longer than like 5 minutes to apply this to the appropriate part of the source code if they didn't mess it up completely...

Mettaricana

add 14 more levels of normal and make the exp continue to increase like any normal level 250k >265K>280K>300k>330K>360K 400K >440k>480K save use alot of gripe and makes cadwell somewat still viable

MisterBigglesworth

Legedric wrote: »

Just make people get VR14 instant when they hit level 50 instead of getting VR1...

I get what you're saying: as a temporary fix. Under the system I've proposed you would literally be as powerful as a V14 at level 50. Moreover, you would infact already have VR2 stats and gear as early as level 44.

Legedric

I know what you are talking about, but your solution would lead to the result that ZOS has to re-attune the level 38 to 50 content nearly from scratch, otherwise you would just wreck through Coldharbour including Molag Bal with VR6-VR14...

I guess this takes an extreme amount of time.

Another approach that goes more into your direction would be this one:
- leave the way you level from 1-50 as it is (seriously, I think it's perfect. Not so rushing fast as SWTOR but still not too long to drop interest)
- Tune everything from VR1-14 down to Level 50 - including Cadwell's, all VR equipment etc.

This way Cadwell's is optional or for getting champion points but everything at level 50, so you won't be able to outlevel it by pure grinding as it is possible today for example.

Of course this will lead to other problems like:
- What happens with all the crafting tiers VR1+ and the appropriate materials?
- Will all gear you have at VR1-14 be level 50? So I will benefit if I kept a pair VR2 Valkyn Skoria shouldersfor example?
- Some more I don't think of right now

So this is just another approach but it will take teh same effort like your proposal. The only difference between your and my proposal is: Keep 1-50 untouched.

PBpsy

A better option would be to leave the exp like it is and allow enlightenment to be used for ranking up also.This would really ease up the ranking but not completely eliminate it.. One could even chose to rank up at current rate.

MisterBigglesworth

Legedric wrote: »

Of course this will lead to other problems like:
- What happens with all the crafting tiers VR1+ and the appropriate materials?
- Will all gear you have at VR1-14 be level 50? So I will benefit if I kept a pair VR2 Valkyn Skoria shouldersfor example?
- Some more I don't think of right now

That's exactly why that type of conversion must be avoided at all costs.
People don't like feeling nerfed. Pure and simple.
(even if they weren't really nerfed, its the perception that counts)
People who are VR14 right now would see no change to their stats.

My proposed system would, as a nice side effect, make people who are still leveling up feel a bit more powerful and would allow them to partcipate in Cadwell Silver/Gold (all of which would be level 50 content and doable in any order) much sooner than they can currently. By the way, yes they would have to relocate all the ore/wood/plant nodes, but they've already shown they can do this easily.

Legedric

Well, I don't see why they should keep VR levels just because players may feel nerfed... Getting everything down to level 50 would be way more streamlined and less confusing than this VR level nonsense they want to get rid of anyway

In addition when they already have to re-attune the balancing they could revisit PvP TTK and bring it more towards where it was with 1.5

MyNegation

No
the veteran levels can stay as is,

what have to be removed is all gear for veteran levels ( vet 1 -14) including resources and crafting materials.

people who would like to grind skillpoints and 14 more stat points can do it slowly in PVP or cadwell silver/gold.
but the obtained gear must stay on level 50 as the engame gear.

this will solve the issue to both kinds of people, those who like vet levels (they will have skill points and some stat advantage) and those who don't (they will still be competitive due to access to all endgame gear and crafting ).

this will also solve several crafting issues removing useless materials , level gaps and the silly power creep.

if veteran levels didn't exist, i would have quit the game last month.
because they exist i am slowly doing my way through gold and hope that by the way i will reach craglorn a content update will be released.

starkerealm

Legedric wrote: »

I know what you are talking about, but your solution would lead to the result that ZOS has to re-attune the level 38 to 50 content nearly from scratch, otherwise you would just wreck through Coldharbour including Molag Bal with VR6-VR14...

I guess this takes an extreme amount of time.

Another approach that goes more into your direction would be this one:
- leave the way you level from 1-50 as it is (seriously, I think it's perfect. Not so rushing fast as SWTOR but still not too long to drop interest)
- Tune everything from VR1-14 down to Level 50 - including Cadwell's, all VR equipment etc.

This way Cadwell's is optional or for getting champion points but everything at level 50, so you won't be able to outlevel it by pure grinding as it is possible today for example.

Of course this will lead to other problems like:
- What happens with all the crafting tiers VR1+ and the appropriate materials?

Please, do this. Let me just worry about collecting ebony over 14 zones, instead of having to specifically find one of the four zones that will spit out voidstone.

Legedric wrote: »

- Will all gear you have at VR1-14 be level 50? So I will benefit if I kept a pair VR2 Valkyn Skoria shouldersfor example?

This is quite possibly what will happen. And, I've read comments from a few others who have saved some of their high grade vet 10, vet 12 gear (from when those were the level caps) on the belief that when vet ranks go away, they'll be useful again.

The other possibility is we'll see gear gated by Champion Rank. Long term, I think that could lead to some serious problems, since it applies a stronger linear progression to your CR. But, it's possible.

Legedric wrote: »

- Some more I don't think of right now

So this is just another approach but it will take teh same effort like your proposal. The only difference between your and my proposal is: Keep 1-50 untouched.

Yeah, the real issue with the OP is the idea that they seem to think we somehow need the vet power level. That was, partially unintended. It's in the game now, obviously, but the game wasn't really designed for it. And, it creates the hilariously uneven cyrodiil combat, where vet ranks really are just 14 more levels that take forever to earn.

The entire point is for level 50 to be the end point, with a transition over into CP, rather than the beginning of a very unsatisfying leveling progression. I mean, I know CP is kind of an endless grind, but under the current system, because of how leveling slows down when you hit vet 1, I've had guild members think their XP progression was flat out broken. To say nothing of the Vet Points vs XP points thing that was mercifully taken behind the woodshed. Under the CP system, you're getting little bits of power trickled to you over time, rather than having to invest 10 hours into a character and then seeing a single surge of power, as you gain access to more powerful gear, and another stat point (I don't even think the skill point matters, but, hey, it's there).

Legedric

MyNegation wrote: »

No
the veteran levels can stay as is,

what have to be removed is all gear for veteran levels ( vet 1 -14) including resources and crafting materials.

people who would like to grind skillpoints and 14 more stat points can do it slowly in PVP or cadwell silver/gold.
but the obtained gear must stay on level 50 as the engame gear.

this will solve the issue to both kinds of people, those who like vet levels (they will have skill points and some stat advantage) and those who don't (they will still be competitive due to access to all endgame gear and crafting ).

this will also solve several crafting issues removing useless materials , level gaps and the silly power creep.

if veteran levels didn't exist, i would have quit the game last month.
because they exist i am slowly doing my way through gold and hope that by the way i will reach craglorn a content update will be released.

Uhm no. You are not competative in PvP as you lack the attribute points and yes, 14 points do make a difference. So you would again be forced to get the "boring as hell to grind" VR levels.

MisterBigglesworth

Legedric wrote: »

Uhm no. You are not competative in PvP as you lack the attribute points and yes, 14 points do make a difference. So you would again be forced to get the "boring as hell to grind" VR levels.

Exactly. Cadwell Silver/Gold should be "just for fun".
Although now that I think about it... what about skyshards and the quest chains that give skillpoints?
I guess those aren't as big of a deal as attribute points, though...

MisterBigglesworth

starkerealm wrote: »

Yeah, the real issue with the OP is the idea that they seem to think we somehow need the vet power level. That was, partially unintended. It's in the game now, obviously, but the game wasn't really designed for it. And, it creates the hilariously uneven cyrodiil combat, where vet ranks really are just 14 more levels that take forever to earn.

Right, but the only reason it's uneven is because it takes so long to grind.
Under my proposal you're already "VR2" when you set foot in Coldharbor, and by the time you finish the main story line you're "VR14" (see above chart for actual levels post-conversion).

And yes I do think there still needs to be a power difference between someone who parked their character in the bank at Vet 1 and someone who has spent several months playing their at Vet 14 character. They shouldn't be given the same level gear and have the same base stats. At the same time though, it shouldn't be an extremely long grind to close that gap... I think about 10 hours worth of questing/dungeons/pvp would be sufficient.

Legedric

Exactly, I consider them optional as well.

The skill points (and so the skyshards) are only needed if you want to max out crafting and different role-types on a single character.
If you want to build a character purely for one purpose (like DD) you don't need them. But of course you may grab them as you like when youa re bored, waiting for a Cyrodiil queue to go up etc.

MyNegation

Legedric wrote: »

Uhm no. You are not competative in PvP as you lack the attribute points and yes, 14 points do make a difference. So you would again be forced to get the "boring as hell to grind" VR levels.

and i thought it was about the skill not stats?

you get them while playing PVP.
you both enjoy your PVP and get stat upgrade while you play.
though higher XP conversion for PVP kill might be in place.

Legedric

No, we don't need more noobs trying to level VR or do PvE in Cyrodiil filling up the queue for real PvP players, thanks

starkerealm

Legedric wrote: »

No, we don't need more noobs trying to level VR or do PvE in Cyrodiil filling up the queue for real PvP players, thanks

No, no, no, you misunderstand. We need more "noobs" trying to level VR and do PvE in Cyrodiil, filling up the queue with sweet unsuspecting victims to farm AP with.

starkerealm

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Yeah, the real issue with the OP is the idea that they seem to think we somehow need the vet power level. That was, partially unintended. It's in the game now, obviously, but the game wasn't really designed for it. And, it creates the hilariously uneven cyrodiil combat, where vet ranks really are just 14 more levels that take forever to earn.

Right, but the only reason it's uneven is because it takes so long to grind. Under my proposal you're already "VR2" when you set foot in Coldharbor, and by the time you finish the main story line you're "VR14" (see above chart for actual levels post-conversion).

And yes I do think there still needs to be a power difference between someone who parked their character in the bank at Vet 1 and someone who has spent several months playing their at Vet 14 character. They shouldn't be given the same level gear and have the same base stats. At the same time though, it shouldn't be an extremely long grind to close that gap... I think about 10 hours worth of questing/dungeons/pvp would be sufficient.

Funny you should say that, because, before the Craglorn nerfs, you could get from Vet 1 to Vet 14 in about 12-15 hours of grinding. But, rather obviously, that hasn't helped with the overall power imbalance.

Honestly, anyone who lived through the 1.6 stat rebalanced should be familiar with this. Changing the numbers doesn't really change the game. Everything gets multiplied by ten... and nothing really changes.

Functionally, there's no difference between a game where the level cap is 50, and everyone has 49 attribute points to play with, and a game where the level cap is 64, and everyone has 63 attribute points to play with. It's just bigger numbers. The thing is, the non-vet content is tuned for specific levels. The vet content? Is kinda not. Gold and Silver zones are a lot more forgiving of level than your 1-50 run.

So, in trying to change what a level 42 means, you're actually going to mess up Bangkorai, The Rift, and Reaper's March. And you'll completely break Cold Harbour's. What this means is, all of those zones would need to be completely retooled.

The simplest answer is still to simply scratch the vet ranks, and push everything up there down to 50. You hit 50, you're done leveling, and your only remaining progression is CP and working towards gold gear. It would go from a game where you hit 50, and you're good to go for Cyrodiil, Craglorn, and any Cadwell zone. While CP does represent a straight upgrade for higher level players, it's less significant than difference between a Vet 1 and a Vet 14.

Thing is we really don't need the Vet 14 power level.

Cernow

The huge mistake they made was linking gear to Veteran Rank.

All gear should be scaled to level 50. Period. Better gear can be gained via elite endgame content, but it should still be scaled to 50 (i.e. it's power kept in proportion to the standard level 50 gear).

Then the veteran zones and Cadwell's can remain, but as a vehicle for gaining Champion Points and extra Skill Points at whatever rate the individual player is comfortable with.

Aldarenn

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Here is how I propose the current Veteran Rank system should be converted over into the new system in which level 50 is the level cap.



Starting at level 38, character stats would be roughly equivalent to those of a level 39 character under our current system.
This power difference would gradually increase and would affect gear, potions, food, etc.
For example, a VR6 piece of gear would become a level 46 piece of gear, but would still have all the same stats as it does currently.
Current VR10 Food would become available at level 48.

World and dungeon mobs would obviously have to be adjusted as well so that they don't become too easy to kill.

I think this is probably the smoothest, most elegant way to handle the Vet removal.

@ZOS Thoughts?

I like your idea, but the Vet ranks are not being removed.

ESO Plus is nothing but a cash-grab for the new players that make them feel forced to pay for the 10% extra exp. to level through these horrid things.

Rook_Master

Jando wrote: »

This is what i write in every thread about veteran ranks, including my own, for the last 3-4 months:

The right approach here is not to remove VR's at all, but to reduce the xp to gain each rank to something like 150K. No other system in the game needs to be changed and they can do it in a hotfix. The 14 Veteran ranks essentially become 14 regular levels.

For those who still want a challenge in Cadwell Gold/Silver content: that content can be optimized for something like VR 15-20 and then they can "battle level" all characters up appropriately when entering those zones.

Done..problem solved. No reason it should be taking this long.

Dear Zos...Veteran Ranks are ruining your game...there's an easy fix...just do it!!

This. This could be solved tomorrow with this solution.

There is no reason for the current Veteran Rank Grind.

MisterBigglesworth

starkerealm wrote: »

The simplest answer is still to simply scratch the vet ranks, and push everything up there down to 50. You hit 50, you're done leveling, and your only remaining progression is CP and working towards gold gear. It would go from a game where you hit 50, and you're good to go for Cyrodiil, Craglorn, and any Cadwell zone. While CP does represent a straight upgrade for higher level players, it's less significant than difference between a Vet 1 and a Vet 14.

Thing is we really don't need the Vet 14 power level.

Do you remember the epic **** storm that ensued here on the forums when they announced everyone would be getting a flat 30 CPs? Everyone from the lowliest VR1 to the mightiest VR14 would've been rewarded equally... and the "community" (vocal minority? maybe, maybe not) summarily rejected the idea, demanded greater rewards for those at the top, and got the Devs to change their mind. So if they decide to bring all VR14s down to the same power level as VR1s, don't be surprised to see a lot of raging.

Personally, I didn't mind the 30CP system as originally envisioned, and I wouldn't freak out if they flatted all stats down to level 50... but I'm sure a lot of people would.

cs_spitfireb16_ESO

Simple.. just rename veteran ranks to champion levels and adjust alll gear and items to the new naming.. then for example with every 5 champion points gained your champion level goes up one level.

Endurance

a better option is to: stop making alts

MissBizz

@Endurance Stop making alts? You don't ever wish to try out another class?

Thanks for the fancy chart. No idea how they plan on doing it, but that would be good... Not sure how it would work though... a VR2 would suddenly become 46... although they most likely already completed all zones in their own faction...

starkerealm

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

The simplest answer is still to simply scratch the vet ranks, and push everything up there down to 50. You hit 50, you're done leveling, and your only remaining progression is CP and working towards gold gear. It would go from a game where you hit 50, and you're good to go for Cyrodiil, Craglorn, and any Cadwell zone. While CP does represent a straight upgrade for higher level players, it's less significant than difference between a Vet 1 and a Vet 14.

Thing is we really don't need the Vet 14 power level.

Do you remember the epic **** storm that ensued here on the forums when they announced everyone would be getting a flat 30 CPs? Everyone from the lowliest VR1 to the mightiest VR14 would've been rewarded equally... and the "community" (vocal minority? maybe, maybe not) summarily rejected the idea, demanded greater rewards for those at the top, and got the Devs to change their mind. So if they decide to bring all VR14s down to the same power level as VR1s, don't be surprised to see a lot of raging.

Personally, I didn't mind the 30CP system as originally envisioned, and I wouldn't freak out if they flatted all stats down to level 50... but I'm sure a lot of people would.

Remember the epic shank storm that ensued here on the forums when people first got a good look at the new revised stats and power level? Remember how the Devs basically waved it off.

I'm not going to go digging for the old road ahead posts, but the long term goal for the Champion system is to replace the Vet ranks. Right now, we're getting spoiled by having both, but the devs have made it clear that the Vet system's days are numbered.

Lord_Draevan

I think ZOS said in the last ESO Live that Vet Ranks are still going to be removed, it's just a matter of when, though they haven't said how they're going to do it yet.