How about a little love for us solo PvE'ers?

Heromofo

Me and my mates play games together but it does not mean we wish to group up all the time.
We love solo stuff we should never be forced to group up outside of dungeons because we just like questing and exploring alone.

traigusb14_ESO2

My endgame gear is all crafted. Most of the dropped stuff I don't like. A lot of it needs to be rethought after 1.6.

Kublakan

I agree with the op, and glad to learn Eso is working on more solo content.

Personally, my time is precious and I don't waste it sitting idly waiting for people to group. Been there done that and done with it. When I log in, I jump right away into action. When I group, it's on pug for the time needed or with friends in guild. I like joining a group in cyrodiil, but most of the time preference going solo even there. I have no patience either for boring chat between unknown people on TS, so I rarely use it anymore. I just passed that time.

So, yes I like solo and grouping when it suits me. But, it's an mmo, so I expect to have both option open on the table and not to be pushed toward one, by no one.

KerinKor

daemonios wrote: »

I think you are forgetting the MM part of MMORPG.

I think you are forgetting the 'G' doesn't stand for GROUP.

Sallington

Earelith wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

I think you are forgetting the MM part of MMORPG.

To be very blunt, if you want a single-player game there are plenty to choose from. I'd rather ZOS fix the current group content (PvP performance is unbearable and end-game PvE is fast following its tracks) and develop new group content.

Soloers are already responsible for some of the worst changes to this game, namely the nerfs to many epic fights and all VR content. I can't blame you for asking, but I seriously hope they don't even consider it.

Super agree. This is already the best solo MMO I've ever experienced. Levels 1-50 are fantastic. The state that PvP is in is abysmal, just awful. That should be their top priority, since it's really the only endgame with replayability.

On my 10+ years of mmos I yet to find a happy pvper ...all pvp games are "unbalanced" and "awful"...is it the games fault or the nature of pvp gameplay unfortunately always leave a bad taste to the player?

The actual gameplay of PvP I think is brilliant (for the most part) and the best I've come across. It's the crippling lag that takes all of the fun out of it. If there was no lag I'd still be playing, very happily.

There's naturally always going to be imbalances. That's just the nature of any MMO. Things will be nerfed and things will be buffed. That's to be expected and doesn't really mess with the overall enjoyment. However, some skills are just flat-out broken, and it doesn't help that ESO is the least transparent MMO I've ever seen with regards to skills and what they do. It's like they actively try to hide information so we can't tell if skills are broken or not.

timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO

Will never realy happen its wow - daily clone system.

Acrolas

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Now for the bad news: ZoS HATES solo players. Don't believe me? Then explain to me the purpose of the pressure pads that can be found in certain dungeons such as Direfrost Keep:

Direfrost Keep is a group dungeon. Of course it's going to have group-minded mechanics involved.
If it were a public dungeon, then yes, that would be a disappointing barrier.

But it's right on the box, so I don't think ZeniMax hates solo players. Otherwise they would have written, "Want to play alone? Well, tough ***." There are things you have to do as a group, but there's also a lot you can enjoy on your own.

pecheckler

Earelith wrote: »

On my 10+ years of mmos I yet to find a happy pvper ...all pvp games are "unbalanced" and "awful"...is it the games fault or the nature of pvp gameplay unfortunately always leave a bad taste to the player?

I guess you've never played guild wars 2 structured PvP? It is perfectly balanced and was designed from the ground-up to not have any of the typical MMO PvE-PvP hybrid problems. Nobody complains about it being unbalanced. The only complaints are that it gets old and repetitive. The fact that a player can skip logging on for 6 months and then return and still be on an equal footing is just amazing. No crap like players with thousands of hours invested having an advantage, besides more practice anyway.

Emma_Overload

daemonios wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Now for the bad news: ZoS HATES solo players. Don't believe me? Then explain to me the purpose of the pressure pads that can be found in certain dungeons such as Direfrost Keep:



There is no possible reason for these pads to be there other than to bar solo players from progressing through the dungeon.

OR maybe they simply decided to have a different puzzle for a change, and this one in particular happens to require 2 people. In ONE dungeon out of the whole game. But congrats on pulling the persecution complex card.

UrQuan wrote: »

To be very blunt, MM just means massively multiplayer, and has never meant "must group". Any MMO that ignores the solo play aspect is sure to fail. Why? Because there are a lot of players who don't care to ever group up, there are a lot more players who like to do both solo play and group play, and there are players who like group play best but still play solo some of the time when waiting for friends to come online, farming, etc.

I understand what you're saying. However, when solo content starts ruining group content, I think a line must be drawn. VR zones were supposed to be essentially group content, or very hard solo content. Look at them now. Craglorn was supposed to be end-game, non-instanced, group PvE. It's now mostly soloable, and easily so.

My point is: if you want to solo, you now have 17 entire zones full of questlines, delves and public dungeons. It takes weeks, if not months, to clear every single one of those ONCE. In the mean time, for groups/raids you have:

- 1 whole zone of dysfunctional PvP (which isn't even an option for everyone, since many people don't like to PvP, even though they like group content); or
- 8 veteran dungeons, 3 trials and 1 arena, which you could do all in a day or two.

And soloers STILL complain that ONE freaking puzzle that requires 2 players in ONE group dungeon is a sign that ESO is unfriendly to solo gameplay...

There are several other locations in the game that use pressure plates or push levers for "group-gating" content: Trials have a bunch of them, for example, and there are also a couple of quests in Craglorn that have them. I haven't even done most the Veteran Dungeons yet, so they might have some, too. What's particularly maddening about the Craglorn quests is that they CAN be soloed by a competent player, but ZoS has arbirtrarily group-gated them... who knows why?

I'm sorry, but I don't accept the argument "if you want to solo, you now have 17 entire zones full of questlines, delves and public dungeons..." no matter how many times I hear it. When solo players hit VR11 in this game, they hit a wall. Even though they can mindlessly grind to VR14 (like I did), they never really get to feel like their character has hit the top. Character prgression has always been an important feature of MMO's, but for many ESO players, it ends prematurely when they finish Cadwell's Gold. None of the solo-friendly areas of the game have endgame content and rewards. How is a solo player going to get Wise Mage or Quick Serpent gear? What about Valkyn Skoria? The group-gates like the ones in Trials aren't the only obstacles. The Veteran Dungeons are scaled to player level, but NOT to group size. You can be the best player in the game, but some boss mechanics are just impossible to solo.... by DESIGN.

Nothing in your argument explains WHY solo players need to be treated like second class citizens at endgame. My theory is that ZoS feels like they need to pander to "old school" MMO players in order to get street cred or something. These types of players probably already belong to active guilds, so they don't have the same problems with grouping in ESO that many other players have. Personally, I enjoy playing in a group on those rare occasions I'm able to join one, but the grouping process itself is just horrible, in my opinion. If ZoS wants players to group, they should improve their grouping mechanism instead of torturing solo players with crap like pressure plates.

mtwiggz

I don't want to shut down anyone's ideas, as we're all entitled to our own. Yet I don't see this need for solo PvE content. A lot of the group content is easily soloable already - other than the vet dungeons (even though recent videos prove otherwise).

This is an MMO. The content should be based mostly around group play. Almost the entire story line from level 1 to VR14 is all solo content.

I understand a lot of ESO players come from TES games, which are all solo. If you want another solo TES game I believe one is in the works already. That will be your time to shine, again. Let us TES fans who have always wanted an online version finally be able to play it. There's already a serious lack of content, I would much prefer not to see the devs time wasted on creating solo content. Which can already be found in every TES game before ESO.

Just my opinion.

Emma_Overload

Acrolas wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Now for the bad news: ZoS HATES solo players. Don't believe me? Then explain to me the purpose of the pressure pads that can be found in certain dungeons such as Direfrost Keep:

Direfrost Keep is a group dungeon. Of course it's going to have group-minded mechanics involved.
If it were a public dungeon, then yes, that would be a disappointing barrier.

But it's right on the box, so I don't think ZeniMax hates solo players. Otherwise they would have written, "Want to play alone? Well, tough ***." There are things you have to do as a group, but there's also a lot you can enjoy on your own.

All that box proves is that ZoS loves our MONEY, not solo players. Remember, this was a subscription game for the first year or so. ZoS was happy to cash our checks and let us "play the way you like" for a few months while we grinded our way through Cadwell's Silver and Gold. Once we got to VR11 and Craglorn, however, all we got was a big fat middle finger, and if we complained on the forums, the groupers would come out of the woodwork to scold us with crap like "It's an MMO... go play Skyrim blah blah blah!" ZoS bait-and-switched solo players because they KNEW the Elder Scrolls brand would attract us in droves, so they gave us just enough solo play to drain our wallets and no more.

Emma_Overload

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Modded OP "Insightful" only because "Epic" wasn't an option. Regarding the topic at hand, I have good news and and bad news.

The good news is that there are many, many players who want what you are asking for: better rewards and a proper endgame for solo players. All you have to do to find solo players is simply play the game... we are everywhere, even in Craglorn which is supposed to be a "group zone".

Now for the bad news: ZoS HATES solo players. Don't believe me? Then explain to me the purpose of the pressure pads that can be found in certain dungeons such as Direfrost Keep:



There is no possible reason for these pads to be there other than to bar solo players from progressing through the dungeon. It takes no skill to step on a plate, and no legitimate challenge is overcome by doing so. Removing them would cause no problems whatsoever for groups, but including them is game-breaking for solo players. I know people on forums have abused the phrase "slap in the face" to the point of cliche, but come on, man, those pressure plates really are a SLAP in the FACE.

Don't be surprised if Wrothgar/Orsinium is released without ANY endgame content for solo players. I do not expect to see any single player Trials or solo leaderboards. ZoS has demonstrated time and time again that they do not understand or respect solo players, although they seem happy to take our money! Hopefully, I'm wrong and they will implement some of the OP's suggestions, but I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah, I remember when I was about to solo Direfrost Keep and ended up extremely disappointed in the room with the pressure plates. All the fights before were for absolutely nothing at all, and I left. After this, I couldn't care less about any group dungeons, which is a shame, but what can I do.

Funny thing is that I've done this dungeon before with a friend and his friend back in the early days, but unfortunately I just forgot about these damn pressure plates when I returned months later. Now I definitely won't return anymore or to any other group dungeon, it's not worth the effort.

I'm also "+1" for the OP and hope we'll get to see more solo endgame content with appropriate rewards and loot.


(Btw, I saw you in Rawl'kha last week, your character looks fantastic!^^)

Thanks! I'm one of these people who tries to do every acheivment just for the extra dye colors, LOL.

Moonscythe

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

Moonscythe wrote: »

"I think you are forgetting the MM part of MMORPG."

I am getting so sick of this comment. MM means Massively Multiplayer is does not mean those masses of players are playing in a group just that they are playing in the same world. I have lots of problems with that part as well but I am aware of what I am doing when I join an MMO and there are more than enough people who play solo or at most with a single companion for many reasons none of which are being anti-social to ask for some consideration without the snark.

^This.
I don't understand (and cannot get a translation for) the last word, but I agree on everything else you wrote.

I'm sorry. Snark is not quite the correct usage since the word is properly an adjective and I turned it into a noun.

Snarky (of a person, words, or a mood) sharply critical; cutting; snide.

hmr13.76preeb18_ESO

I have a lot of time writing about it. Propose to introduce in the game SOLO dungeons, difficulty equal VDSA ! Without scaling ,only for veterans 14. In General let it be SOLO HELL , but with the reward equal to the rewards of trials and leaderboards .

UrQuan

Moonscythe wrote: »

I'm sorry. Snark is not quite the correct usage since the word is properly an adjective and I turned it into a noun.

See personally I like to turn nouns and adjectives into verbs, because verbing weirds the language.

Edit: +20 internets to whoever gets that reference

timidobserver

There is no love for anyone other than console players atm.

ZOS_AlanG

This discussion is getting a bit heated. It's fine to disagree or debate, but please be respectful and keep any criticism constructive. We've removed several posts, some simply because they were responding to posts that were being removed.

Rioht

mtwiggz wrote: »

I don't want to shut down anyone's ideas, as we're all entitled to our own. Yet I don't see this need for solo PvE content. A lot of the group content is easily soloable already - other than the vet dungeons (even though recent videos prove otherwise). .

The issue with this point however, is that yes there are players that were able to solo that content. But you know how? They have all the best gear already. They were forced to group and complete the content first before they got the gear.

There is still no way that a solo player could do that content without having gone and grinded all the gear in a group first.

Sandmanninja

Who the heck is going to find 3 random strangers that are on the same quest, and the same point on the same quest, as yourself?

I tried once - responded to someone in zone chat. We teamed up and NO ONE was on the same stage of the quest.

wafcatb14_ESO

doesn`t matter i was in the closed beta testing and hated how the game played like a single player game with tacked on co-op, i paid a sub for 9 months just for the Cryodill aspect of the game .

My guild started with over 1300 of us in game at launch, within 6 months when all the 6 month subs finally ran out we were down to 250 members the rest went back to GW2 they are still in the guild but left eso due to really nothing to do.

small 4 man group content, the only thing resembling large scale dynamic events are dolemans, and AvA , but AvA has been screwed up since the lighting patch back in june of 2014 , everything else is soloable or made for no larger than a 4 man group.

their crown store does not intrest me, and since they continuely lied about not going free 2 play just so they could continue to get our sub money to pay for them designing the crown store and preparing for consel launch instead of fixing bugs, i`ll never use their crown store or buy any future game they develop or publish. the 15 bucks for the sub isn`t an issue since 1 day of work covers a 2 year sub, it the principle of lying to us for 9 months. so who cares solo game content or more group content . not buying either.

Glurin

pecheckler wrote: »

Earelith wrote: »

On my 10+ years of mmos I yet to find a happy pvper ...all pvp games are "unbalanced" and "awful"...is it the games fault or the nature of pvp gameplay unfortunately always leave a bad taste to the player?

I guess you've never played guild wars 2 structured PvP? It is perfectly balanced and was designed from the ground-up to not have any of the typical MMO PvE-PvP hybrid problems. Nobody complains about it being unbalanced. The only complaints are that it gets old and repetitive. The fact that a player can skip logging on for 6 months and then return and still be on an equal footing is just amazing. No crap like players with thousands of hours invested having an advantage, besides more practice anyway.

See? No matter where you go, PvPers are unhappy and want everybody to know about it.

drschplatt

UrQuan wrote: »

Moonscythe wrote: »

I'm sorry. Snark is not quite the correct usage since the word is properly an adjective and I turned it into a noun.

See personally I like to turn nouns and adjectives into verbs, because verbing weirds the language.

Edit: +20 internets to whoever gets that reference

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding.



What do you think, Calvin?

olsborg

I want a better solo experience too, I like to duo or group up to 4 in cyrodiil only, but for pve I greatly prefer solo play. I have a rather spontaneous schedual and grouping for 2 hours doing trials or whatever is rather out of the question, I would like a way to get undaunted skill tree completed as a soloer, ive tried as far as I can do get this done solo, but I am now stuck on rank 4.

Moonshadow66

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Modded OP "Insightful" only because "Epic" wasn't an option. Regarding the topic at hand, I have good news and and bad news.

The good news is that there are many, many players who want what you are asking for: better rewards and a proper endgame for solo players. All you have to do to find solo players is simply play the game... we are everywhere, even in Craglorn which is supposed to be a "group zone".

Now for the bad news: ZoS HATES solo players. Don't believe me? Then explain to me the purpose of the pressure pads that can be found in certain dungeons such as Direfrost Keep:



There is no possible reason for these pads to be there other than to bar solo players from progressing through the dungeon. It takes no skill to step on a plate, and no legitimate challenge is overcome by doing so. Removing them would cause no problems whatsoever for groups, but including them is game-breaking for solo players. I know people on forums have abused the phrase "slap in the face" to the point of cliche, but come on, man, those pressure plates really are a SLAP in the FACE.

Don't be surprised if Wrothgar/Orsinium is released without ANY endgame content for solo players. I do not expect to see any single player Trials or solo leaderboards. ZoS has demonstrated time and time again that they do not understand or respect solo players, although they seem happy to take our money! Hopefully, I'm wrong and they will implement some of the OP's suggestions, but I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah, I remember when I was about to solo Direfrost Keep and ended up extremely disappointed in the room with the pressure plates. All the fights before were for absolutely nothing at all, and I left. After this, I couldn't care less about any group dungeons, which is a shame, but what can I do.

Funny thing is that I've done this dungeon before with a friend and his friend back in the early days, but unfortunately I just forgot about these damn pressure plates when I returned months later. Now I definitely won't return anymore or to any other group dungeon, it's not worth the effort.

I'm also "+1" for the OP and hope we'll get to see more solo endgame content with appropriate rewards and loot.


(Btw, I saw you in Rawl'kha last week, your character looks fantastic!^^)

Thanks! I'm one of these people who tries to do every acheivment just for the extra dye colors, LOL.

That's awesome^^ I'm still missing some of the dyes, but I keep trying to get the achievements, too

Moonshadow66

Moonscythe wrote: »

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

Moonscythe wrote: »

"I think you are forgetting the MM part of MMORPG."

I am getting so sick of this comment. MM means Massively Multiplayer is does not mean those masses of players are playing in a group just that they are playing in the same world. I have lots of problems with that part as well but I am aware of what I am doing when I join an MMO and there are more than enough people who play solo or at most with a single companion for many reasons none of which are being anti-social to ask for some consideration without the snark.

^This.
I don't understand (and cannot get a translation for) the last word, but I agree on everything else you wrote.

I'm sorry. Snark is not quite the correct usage since the word is properly an adjective and I turned it into a noun.

Snarky (of a person, words, or a mood) sharply critical; cutting; snide.

You don't have to be sorry, I always love to learn some more words (or how else you can say things in English^^), so thank you for the explanation

byrom101b16_ESO

Everyone should be able to get to VR14 and keep going with CPs as solo.

Likewise they should be able to eventually grind out up to the second best tier of gear in the game, with the top tier becoming available to them once the game moves on to another tier.

A solo player should be able to front themselves before a dungeon or trial group doing the hardest instances in the game and have the same gear as those who are running it for the first time - i.e. they should be competitive with people who came to it through grouping on their way up...

The idea that only grouping players should get to experience all of the best the game has to offer is lame and selfish, and I do wish people who have no problem getting groups, and who enjoy that more than soloing would stop being so blinkered and sanctimonious about it.

It really doesn't take much imagination or programming skill to accommodate all play-styles in one MMO.

Anyone claiming that their play-style is 'more MMO-compatible" is just being a jerk... it doesn't take away anything from their play experience to have other people running around getting what they want out of it, now does it!?

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Acrolas wrote: »

But it's right on the box, so I don't think ZeniMax hates solo players. Otherwise they would have written, "Want to play alone? Well, tough ***." There are things you have to do as a group, but there's also a lot you can enjoy on your own.

Well what they say on the box is meaningless unless they back it up with what they do in-game.

There's nothing wrong IMO with puzzles that require pressure-plate use, and sure that means its a lot easier if you have a group - but would it be too difficult to have a mechanism that allows solo player to trigger the plates by moving things over them? Heck Jedi-Knight was doing that a decade ago.

Add in that if you want to play genuinely solo you are denied access to the Trade System and it becomes clear that the blurb on the box is just that - blurb - not something ZeniMax ever intended to deliver.

Wonder if there is scope for a claim against false advertising there? I do know EU based courts are getting very frisky when it comes to the mis-representation of digital products.

All The Best

Craven_Killmore

the game is single player till vr14 then forces you to group, people that want to solo are just going to find other games to play unless you offer them a fair and advertised path.

Once you milk your console sales for a month or 2 and realize the cost to develop and license the game for consoles was as much as the returns you will get on the console sales, you will see that players come first, and not everyone wants to group.

A happy community brings in cash, a miserable community brings in nothing, the sooner you learn this the better.

From what I understand console won't be able to type or link items so I don't know how people are even going to coordinate stuff in pve anyways, really.

I'm smart enough to understand, (with over 20 years of mmo experience) that console sales won't save you and I bet that ticks you off.

Heromofo

Craven_Killmore wrote: »

the game is single player till vr14 then forces you to group, people that want to solo are just going to find other games to play unless you offer them a fair and advertised path.

Once you milk your console sales for a month or 2 and realize the cost to develop and license the game for consoles was as much as the returns you will get on the console sales, you will see that players come first, and not everyone wants to group.

A happy community brings in cash, a miserable community brings in nothing, the sooner you learn this the better.

From what I understand console won't be able to type or link items so I don't know how people are even going to coordinate stuff in pve anyways, really.

I'm smart enough to understand, (with over 20 years of mmo experience) that console sales won't save you and I bet that ticks you off.

Im down for that i love solo play just because i am in a world with others does not mean i want to play with them lol
Sometimes its just nice to see others running around while i am doing my own thing.

G0ku

hmr13.76preeb18_ESO wrote: »

I have a lot of time writing about it. Propose to introduce in the game SOLO dungeons, difficulty equal VDSA ! Without scaling ,only for veterans 14. In General let it be SOLO HELL , but with the reward equal to the rewards of trials and leaderboards .

it will be solo hell for two weeks then nerfed to a level that even a chimp can achieve it just like they did to vdsa