So Devs, why is it worse than ever to be a vampire?

MornaBaine

Remember that really big favor you did for vampires by reducing our fire damage by 10%? Yet there's this really "interesting" thing.... we die faster than ever to fire bosses and in PvP. What's up with that? Can you explain please?

Natjur

Vampire's suck......

How much fire resistance gear are you using?

lihentian

i think it have something to do with resistance, they seem less efficient then before..

Valymer

Cyrodiil is chock full of vampires spamming wrecking blow while in mist form so they don't seem so bad off there. Can't speak for PvE however.

MornaBaine

Natjur wrote: »

Vampire's suck......

How much fire resistance gear are you using?

Lots. And I used to do just fine. Now? Same dungeons, same gear, can't stay alive.

C0pp3rhead

For one thing, some vampires rely on the Elemental Resistance passive from the champion point system. As far as I know, this passive is bugged and provides almost no resistance to cold, fire, or frost. Also, light armor provides much less protection than it previously did. This includes spell resistance, which affects fire damage as well. On top of that, I believe they reduced the protection from +fire resist and +spell resist enchantments on rings.

However, vampires have mistform, which allows them to simply zip away from nasty situations. They also have bat swarm and a +magicka regen passive. However, the damage reduction passive when under 50% health is pathetic.

Drasn

Having zero issue in PVP or any PVE, both my templar and my nightblade are vampires.

Emma_Overload

Valymer wrote: »

Cyrodiil is chock full of vampires spamming wrecking blow while in mist form so they don't seem so bad off there. Can't speak for PvE however.

Is that actually possible? Because I can't do jack in Mist Form except float around.

Lenikus

I'm a vamp...
As long as I stay away from DSA or some other other trial or whatever is there at end-game that people do, I feel close to no problem at all.

only thing i feel bad is the low health regen... but there's usually a healer nearby so it's all good.
I don't notice any extra fire damage, really. I have like 40 champion points on that elemental deffence and that's it.

Hooray for stealth run, 10% mana and Stam regen, and bat swarm.

Drasn

Lenikus wrote: »

I'm a vamp...
As long as I stay away from DSA or some other other trial or whatever is there at end-game that people do, I feel close to no problem at all..

No reason to stay away from any of that. Once you know the mechanics and stay out of the bad it's pretty much the same as not being a vamp.

MornaBaine

All I know is, prior to the "big change" fire damage was not a huge deal to me in dungeons. No change in my gear or build...and now I die to fire in dungeons like mad.

Valymer

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

Cyrodiil is chock full of vampires spamming wrecking blow while in mist form so they don't seem so bad off there. Can't speak for PvE however.

Is that actually possible? Because I can't do jack in Mist Form except float around.

Not sure if it's a bug or what, but it's definitely happening

Naivefanboi

Valymer wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

Cyrodiil is chock full of vampires spamming wrecking blow while in mist form so they don't seem so bad off there. Can't speak for PvE however.

Is that actually possible? Because I can't do jack in Mist Form except float around.

Not sure if it's a bug or what, but it's definitely happening

Hmm maybe some kind of animation cancel exploit?

kijima

Last night in chat someone was asking for VR12+ and NO VAMPS for DSA.

They are garbage for some things, they are just okay for PvP. Beware the fire treb, but I'd suggest that for PvP WW with the extra 15% stam regen is better as with vamps you only have mist form and invisi bats.

Robotmafia

kijima wrote: »

Last night in chat someone was asking for VR12+ and NO VAMPS for DSA.

They are garbage for some things, they are just okay for PvP. Beware the fire treb, but I'd suggest that for PvP WW with the extra 15% stam regen is better as with vamps you only have mist form and invisi bats.

lol i have no issues on my vamp in dsa, dsa Vet or any other content so far.. but i still think 40% is to much compared to WW which has les drawbacks

vamps also have some really good stealth advantages

Johngo0036

Well i am a vampire in cyrodiil and yeah it hits hard, my advice, stay away from fire,

I dont have any gear to reduce fire damage,
However i am a Dunmer,

Vamps dont suck,
It depends what your play style is,
As a NB i love it,

Increased Stamina and Magicka recovery and the MOST important for a NB,
Sneak Speed.

Lithium Flower

I play a vampire sorcerer and it's my newest character so I'm still running into plenty of L2P situations. My previous characters were a Dunmer (with fire resistance) and a Breton (with spell resistance) which both mitigated regular fire damage. Fire HURTS for sure but I don't find it unplayable. I try to keep 100% uptime on hardened ward sometimes stacking with healing ward because I have minimal health (0 points in health, 0 health enchantments and regen drinks instead of food) and when my wards are up, and I'm careful about staying out of fiery red circles - I have no issues, but it's punishing when I am remiss about either.

On the other hand batswarm is such a fantastic ultimate - damage, survivability and mobility! I can barely ever leave it out of my skill load out (I'm still grinding to max level, so this isn't about what would be the best dps ultimate at end-game). Mist form is a nice get-out-of-jail-free card. And I don't even have any of the passives invested in yet.

On my end-game Templar healer, I recently ran through veteran Arena with a vampire tank who had not completed it before. He was a fairly decent player even though he didn't have a lot of vDSA experience and I did not find myself especially taxed keeping him upright - I was a little more vigilant when there was fire damage but we finished the last boss using the split method and he separated from the team to deal with the fire alone (and he was a nightblade on top). We had one wipe because he wasn't familiar with method but managed to pretty much breeze through next time (even though my client crashed during the execute stage and there was no healing while the group finished off the last 10% of Hiath).

I have a lot of vampire friends. Some are pvpers, some are roleplayers and most are good players who have learned to manage their condition. I have also learned to address their unique needs (I usually tend to slot healing ward/bone shield for when I know there may be bursty fire damage coming at us and have vampires in the group).

Vampires are less common in PvP unless they run with a large group and have ready access to healing and barrier support but I think it's balanced in that there are good reasons to be a vampire but also a significant disadvantage, otherwise we would have the same situation as with werewolves that there is no reason at all not to be one.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

The elemental resist champ ability works very well. So does nirnhorned (until they nerf it). What no longer works well is fire resist enchantment on jewels. Even the best of them give about 2 percent resist now which is nothing compared to elemental resist and nirnhorned.

I did the DC spider yesterday on my vamp and its fire blops still only did around 10k damage per tick. I have 30 points in elemental resist and 23k spell resist and no other defense.

Bodycounter

To be honest: Being a vampire offers so many advantages, that the one serious disadvantage should be noticeable. Don't know, why so many people keep complaining about fire damage as a vampire. Being a vampire was implemented as an option, but it used to be so good, that close to everyone started to be a vampire.

To topic: The resistances were changed, so light armor offers much less protection. That may be your problem. Magicka users should definitely go 5/7 light armor and 2/7 heavy armor (use nirnhoned or reinforced traits) now.

LtCrunch

Meanwhile I tank vet dungeons as a Vampire Sorcerer without issue. I use zero fire resist. I don't think vamp is your issue.

Dagoth_Rac

MornaBaine wrote: »

All I know is, prior to the "big change" fire damage was not a huge deal to me in dungeons. No change in my gear or build...and now I die to fire in dungeons like mad.

You need to change your gear and build. The way resistance and damage mitigation works changed completely in Update 6. Everyone had an intrinsic spell resistance in Update 5, even when naked, and wearing Light Armor gave significant boosts to Spell Resistance. Jewelry fire resist glyphs gave another big boost to mitigating fire resistance on top of spell resistance. In Update 6, you have no innate resistance to spells. It comes from armor, with Heavy Armor providing 4x the spell resistance of Light Armor. There is a Light Armor passive to give a boost to Spell Resistance, but Light Armor is still much squishier than before in Update 6. And any jewelry you had with Fire Resist on it is now much less effective. Best bets in Update 6 for fire/spell resist are:

1). Heavy Armor or Medium Armor build. Both give much more armor and spell resistance than Light Armor in Update 6.
2). If you still want to wear Light, wear 5 Light and 2 Heavy or 5 Light and 1 Medium and 1 Heavy. Your 2 pieces of non-Light will likely give you more armor and spell resistance than all 5 Light Armor pieces combined. The Undaunted passive will also boost all your base stats (Max Magicka/Health/Stamina) when you mix armor types.
3). If you still want to wear 7 Light, get the Nirnhoned trait on some of your gear. That gives a big boost to Spell Resistance. The trait stones are rare and expensive and there are not all that many people who have the research done to craft it, but it may be worth the investment.

WillhelmBlack

They got 10% more resist on top of the original 1.5 value yes but fire damage went up 1000% or something like all damage and stats did. Fire can burn a human real quick but it's insta death for vamps. Hence not a vamp any more.

Ninja nerf.

MornaBaine

I am finding this thread really informative and I am super appreciative of those of you who have taken the time to spell things out. I was to the point of actually considering curing my vamp (which was breaking my heart! LOL) But I think now it may not be necessary. Though spending a ton on new gear may be! LOL But please, keep the advice coming!

MornaBaine

So... build suggestions for a light armor wearing destro/restro staff wielding vampire at V8?

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

MornaBaine wrote: »

So... build suggestions for a light armor wearing destro/restro staff wielding vampire at V8?

Replace chest and legs with heavy armor. Get nirnhorned on 3 or 4 if your lesser armor pieces (hand, feet, belt, shoulder) and get 30+ points into elemental resist. Drop any fire resist enchantment on jewels, they don't give any meaningful protection now and you are better off with cost reduction glyphs.

You should see your spell resist increase from around 4-5 k to around 17-19 k.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

MornaBaine wrote: »

Remember that really big favor you did for vampires by reducing our fire damage by 10%? Yet there's this really "interesting" thing.... we die faster than ever to fire bosses and in PvP. What's up with that? Can you explain please?

Probably because of the global nerf to Health, the ratio got reduced from 1.5 to 1.1. So yeah, you take 10% less damage from fire sources but you also have 27% less health to mitigate that same amount of damage.

Leeric

Would putting fortified nirn on a few items solve that?

Vaerth

Valymer wrote: »

Cyrodiil is chock full of vampires spamming wrecking blow while in mist form so they don't seem so bad off there. Can't speak for PvE however.

You cant attack or do anything while in Mist Form...

Vaerth

Vampires in this game are trash though, yes, very unpowered and nerfed into the ground

OtarTheMad

Vampires are generally not easy to play but usually you had a good trade. Honestly my Sorc is a vamp and he does just fine, as long as you have purge on your bar fire doesn't do much and I'm always stage 4. With that being said it would be pretty nice if vampire had one or two more skills to make it a little better sell for some people. It should be a good option to be a vamp but not so powerful that everyone is one... but not so weak no one is one.

You have to play around and theorycraft a bit to see what works best with your build, with that said a lot of suggestions here are good.

Jaerlach

MornaBaine wrote: »

All I know is, prior to the "big change" fire damage was not a huge deal to me in dungeons. No change in my gear or build...and now I die to fire in dungeons like mad.

This is because light armor dps in general is gigantically squishier than it was before the update.