The 'elephant' in the PvP 'room'

Tavore1138

We mention the lag and the lack of balance often but underlying all of it is - no-one is getting the XP/AP they have earned.

This is such a basic flaw a I fear it gets lost in the more 'obvious' problems but the reality is whichever side of the lag you are the game is not assigning you the correct results - this is such a basic flaw that I dare to post it on the general thread.

How are any of us supposed to play PvP when kills do not register and score us points? How can we play when capturing something does not reward AP? How are new players supposed to get enthused about PvP when you take a new group into combat and they get nothing back to reward them for the kills they make - no AP, no XP, no Rewards for the Worthy?

I want PvP to succeed, I have newbies who want to enjoy it - apparently ZOS want to roll over & give up...

Gandrhulf_Harbard

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

apparently ZOS want to roll over & give up...

IMO that would be a good thing.

Far too many games have been ruined by the constant need to balance PvE skill sets for PvP.

I have lost count of the number of times my PvE experience has been utterly ruined by by this.

However, I do understand the excitement and fun of PvP (I used to compete in a few minor leagues for FPS games a decade or so ago).

MMORPGs are, IMO, the wrong games to be trying PvP in.

Game companies know this. Which is why it has become almost normal to force player to PvP at some point in order to continue accessing new content or gear.

For me PvP is only meaningful when it is just about skill - when each player has the same gear, the same skill options etc. FPS games, that are usually without classes, can do this; MMORPGs with classes (that need distinctive and differing roles for PvE) can't, in fact they can't even get close, not even on the same continent.

I am yet to see even one MMORPG that has managed it; LotRO comes closest by making PvP into PvMP, but even then there is the constant clamour to "nerf xyz it is OP on the Moors".

I'd love an MMORPG to have the courage to say "No, not happening, we are not ruining the PvE experience for PvP", such a game would likely see me sub for life.

All The Best

Emma_Overload

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

apparently ZOS want to roll over & give up...

IMO that would be a good thing.

Far too many games have been ruined by the constant need to balance PvE skill sets for PvP.

I have lost count of the number of times my PvE experience has been utterly ruined by by this.

However, I do understand the excitement and fun of PvP (I used to compete in a few minor leagues for FPS games a decade or so ago).

MMORPGs are, IMO, the wrong games to be trying PvP in.

Game companies know this. Which is why it has become almost normal to force player to PvP at some point in order to continue accessing new content or gear.

For me PvP is only meaningful when it is just about skill - when each player has the same gear, the same skill options etc. FPS games, that are usually without classes, can do this; MMORPGs with classes (that need distinctive and differing roles for PvE) can't, in fact they can't even get close, not even on the same continent.

I am yet to see even one MMORPG that has managed it; LotRO comes closest by making PvP into PvMP, but even then there is the constant clamour to "nerf xyz it is OP on the Moors".

I'd love an MMORPG to have the courage to say "No, not happening, we are not ruining the PvE experience for PvP", such a game would likely see me sub for life.

All The Best

This is SO true. I played Counter-Strike for 8 years, and never once did I feel the need to go on some forum and complain about "balance". Sure, FPS players get angry sometimes, but every day is a new day in an FPS... gripes and grief are soon forgotten.

PvP players talk like ZoS doesn't care about them, but from a PvE player's point of view, the devs have done NOTHING BUT cater to them! It's been almost a year since any new PvE zones have been released, but PvP players have been granted patch after patch of relentless nerfs and "rebalances" at their request, most of which have had disastrous consequences for PvE. If ZoS doesn't love PvP, why did they put the stamina heal everyone wants in the one of the Alliance War skill lines instead of the FG or Undaunted?

freespirit

I played a MMORPG which had some PVP elements in it but at no point did you need to do them if you didn't want to.

Mostly it involved small scale dueling in Bars and Inns, I have to say these areas were probably the busiest in the game......

I think that sort of set up would go down well in ESO, infact I often see people in Guild Chat setting up Duels with Guild Mates in Cyrodiil.........

ZOS you are missing a trick here!

Tavore1138

Illiteracy is a tragic problem in game players.

Anyway - anyone interested in commenting on the original post please step up.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Illiteracy is a tragic problem in game players.

Anyway - anyone interested in commenting on the original post please step up.

I did.

You just don't like the answer I gave.

All The Best

Tavore1138

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Illiteracy is a tragic problem in game players.

Anyway - anyone interested in commenting on the original post please step up.

I did.

You just don't like the answer I gave.

All The Best

I wrote about AP not being awarded and you went off on one about balance, if illiteracy is not the probkem then reading comprehension & relevance certainly are.

Thus I neither like nor diskike your reply, in a thread about PvP balance it might have some value, here... Not so much.

Trollwut

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

apparently ZOS want to roll over & give up...

IMO that would be a good thing.

Far too many games have been ruined by the constant need to balance PvE skill sets for PvP.

I have lost count of the number of times my PvE experience has been utterly ruined by by this.

However, I do understand the excitement and fun of PvP (I used to compete in a few minor leagues for FPS games a decade or so ago).

MMORPGs are, IMO, the wrong games to be trying PvP in.

Game companies know this. Which is why it has become almost normal to force player to PvP at some point in order to continue accessing new content or gear.

For me PvP is only meaningful when it is just about skill - when each player has the same gear, the same skill options etc. FPS games, that are usually without classes, can do this; MMORPGs with classes (that need distinctive and differing roles for PvE) can't, in fact they can't even get close, not even on the same continent.

I am yet to see even one MMORPG that has managed it; LotRO comes closest by making PvP into PvMP, but even then there is the constant clamour to "nerf xyz it is OP on the Moors".

I'd love an MMORPG to have the courage to say "No, not happening, we are not ruining the PvE experience for PvP", such a game would likely see me sub for life.

All The Best

I really appreciated your answer! Niceley spoken.

Though I have to admit that I play MMOs mostly for PvP - and class system give one twist: Rock, Paper, Scissors.
It's not just only skill when some players clinch, but also it is about team play, strategy and relying on each other.
And this makes games really awesome! One can heal, one makes damage and another one is a never dying rock. This is what let people feel that they are not omnipotent - "I can heal badass, but killing someone takes much time".
On the other hand it makes them feel special again - "Lucky you had me as a healer, eh?"

But I guess ESO lacks this, especially in PvP. You have a million possibilities of playing a "class" in ESO, but that also removes some class-only identifications. "For what am I mage, when I can also tank and heal?"

But in case of ESO, people just have to lose their WoW-thinking.

Netswine

PvP is the cheapest ways to add replay value to a game, without really adding content. For example, Valve took PvP and Player Created Content (the cheapest way to add content), and made it into an incredibly successful business model.

It is not surprising then that the ESO developers like to court the PvP community as a cheap and easy way to keep up player interest, and perhaps to bring new sales.