Make all damage shields in game scale with health.

eventide03b14a_ESO

aco5712 wrote: »

or i would also suggest, making frag shield (since its useless in its current state) scale off magicka. Same as radiant ward (the useless morph of blazing shield). This would give a bit more variety in builds because you can either get good damage shield for protection but a crap secondary effect, or a bigger effect and crappier shield.

You are only focusing on one aspect which is not only unfair, it's absurd. You complain that your defensive shield is not as effective as the sorc but you are forgetting you have an entire line of healing spells that you can use without a restoration staff that are arguably more powerful than the restoration staff heals. You want the best protection and the best heals? Are you kidding me?

ToRelax

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

or i would also suggest, making frag shield (since its useless in its current state) scale off magicka. Same as radiant ward (the useless morph of blazing shield). This would give a bit more variety in builds because you can either get good damage shield for protection but a crap secondary effect, or a bigger effect and crappier shield.

You are only focusing on one aspect which is not only unfair, it's absurd. You complain that your defensive shield is not as effective as the sorc but you are forgetting you have an entire line of healing spells that you can use without a restoration staff that are arguably more powerful than the restoration staff heals. You want the best protection and the best heals? Are you kidding me?

DK and Templar don't have mobility, but they are supposed to be able to mitigate and heal through damage.
Imo, all class shields should have a magicka and stamina morph.

Teargrants

Xsorus wrote: »

There are multiple abilities in this game that go through dodge, So Dodge users have to get some health...

It doesn't work that way for some Shield Users....So make Shields scale off health and be done with it.

Except dodge roll means you dodge most CC in the game, and the ones you can't, medium armor gives you more stam regenn and being a stam build gives you more base stam to CC break out.

Meanwhile, in order to use my 'OP shields' as a magicka build I still have to block, with my 9k stam.

Since your primary defense as a stam build already scales off stam, why shouldn't my primary defense as a mag build scale of mag? Instead of calling for nerfing all shields, why not call for all shields to scale off magicka? Purely rhetorical since I already know you just want to nerf sorcs.

Xsorus wrote: »

Do you know what I hit someone in Medium Armor for with Focused Aim crit? around 13k...

Do you know what I hit a Sorc for in Light armor with a Shield up? 8.2k

Do you know what you would hit someone in medium armor for with focused aim crit if they were blocking? Oh wait, can't crit on block! And no more than 1-3k.

Do you know what you would hit a sorc in light armor with shields for if they were blocking? Still 8.2k.

FENGRUSH

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

This is a sorc nerf dressed up like some sort of balance issue. Sure it's defensive and it scales off of a damage resource pool. News flash Einstein block and dodge roll are also used by the stamina pool which is also a damage resource. So basically we should need to spread out pools but stamina builds shouldn't. LMFAO.

Stam builds dont have 15k hp. If they do, they die pretty easily.

So no, you dont 'just stacking stamina' as a stam build.

Emma_Overload

ZoS should make Hardened Ward should scale off Health right around the same time they make Roll Dodge and Block cost Health instead of Stamina.

Ezareth

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

There are multiple abilities in this game that go through dodge, So Dodge users have to get some health...

It doesn't work that way for some Shield Users....So make Shields scale off health and be done with it.

Dodge rollers users use Medium Armor which has three times the armor and spell resist that Light Armor has. Higher passive defensive means less need for more robust active defenses.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

And Light armor users have shields, which can't be crit...(Plus the fact that you can overcap spell resist with light as well with nirn, leaving only physical resist, which can be vastly ignored simply because using a armor debuff + 2 handed mace esp if they're in medium armor) Just the fact that shields can't be crit gives them better mitigation when medium armor does with its armor/spell resist.

Do you know what I hit someone in Medium Armor for with Focused Aim crit? around 13k...

Do you know what I hit a Sorc for in Light armor with a Shield up? 8.2k

Guess what happens when you crit a sorc with Focused aim up and no shields? 18K+...

But what about when the shields are up? Well why are you bringing up a situation where a permaroller is getting hit by snipe. You can dodge roll every single high damage ability in the game. Damage shields however get 1-shotted and then some by the same abilities in many cases.

I swear you roll around these conversations like you do in game. Damage shields are a Light Armor users primary defense. Dodge roll is a medium armor users primary defense.

Damage shields absorb a finite amount of damage. The weakness is they can be burst fast than they can be cast.

Dodge rolls avoid an infinite amount of damage against the majority of attacks. The weakness is some abilities can't be avoided at all.

Bouvin

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

This may sound good in theory but will be total crap in reality, no offence.
Shield stacking is only effective 1v1, maybe 1v2 bad players. When 2 or more players do damage the shields are gone in no time. Making all shields scale off health will greatly boost stamina builds with decent a health pool, their main weakness is not having good shields but they have dodge roll to prevent getting hit. Giving them good shields will simply make them unkillable because they can dodge most attacks and absorb the damage of undodgeable attacks.

Also magicka builds who have little defense agianst physical attack and a relative small health pool get very squishy because they have small shields.

Result, magicka builds cant do any damage to stamina builds because they dodge and absorb all damage. Stamina builds will now 2-3 shot every magicka build because they have no defense at all.

Agree.

But it shouldn't be an "I WIN" button for 1v1.

Especially when things start going bad in 1v1 you can just streak away (while stunning your opponent).

Lertil

What the hell kind of thread did this become? Every post is literally bitching and complaining about other builds or how drastic a change this would be to (insert class here). The numbers I posted are almost always slightly higher than that of a magicka/stamina recovery build, something a healer would be using.

In a test, my nightblade had 2200 spell damage, 26k magicka and 18.5k health. Healing ward healed me for 20% of my hp at full life, less than the 25% suggested.

These changes would only affect full glass cannon builds that cheese their way to twoshotting players with insane damage numbers. Those kinds of builds have no business having damage shields of 1.5x their hp.

As for stamina builds, they have insane counters. If you do not run 30k health in full medium armour you will die to lava whip or concealed weapon. The only reason they currently seem tankier than they should is because of nirnhoned scaling being unintentionally strong. Once this nirnhoned "issue" is fixed, the stam builds will have to outplay these abilities through superior movement since most abilities that go through dodge are melee.

Meanwhile, damage shields avoid crits, prevent certain healing effects, and artificially increase HP using a stat that raises damage. There is no counterplay to damage shields other than to pray you get a lucky crit once their shields are down.

Teargrants

Lertil wrote: »

There is no counterplay to damage shields other than to pray you get a lucky crit once their shields are down.

Wrong. The way you out play damage shields is to attack their stamina and CC them into oblivion, or out dps the shield recast limit.

Erondil

Bouvin wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

This may sound good in theory but will be total crap in reality, no offence.
Shield stacking is only effective 1v1, maybe 1v2 bad players. When 2 or more players do damage the shields are gone in no time. Making all shields scale off health will greatly boost stamina builds with decent a health pool, their main weakness is not having good shields but they have dodge roll to prevent getting hit. Giving them good shields will simply make them unkillable because they can dodge most attacks and absorb the damage of undodgeable attacks.

Also magicka builds who have little defense agianst physical attack and a relative small health pool get very squishy because they have small shields.

Result, magicka builds cant do any damage to stamina builds because they dodge and absorb all damage. Stamina builds will now 2-3 shot every magicka build because they have no defense at all.

Agree.

But it shouldn't be an "I WIN" button for 1v1.

Especially when things start going bad in 1v1 you can just streak away (while stunning your opponent).

Its not.

Ezareth

Lertil wrote: »

What the hell kind of thread did this become? Every post is literally bitching and complaining about other builds or how drastic a change this would be to (insert class here). The numbers I posted are almost always slightly higher than that of a magicka/stamina recovery build, something a healer would be using.

In a test, my nightblade had 2200 spell damage, 26k magicka and 18.5k health. Healing ward healed me for 20% of my hp at full life, less than the 25% suggested.

These changes would only affect full glass cannon builds that cheese their way to twoshotting players with insane damage numbers. Those kinds of builds have no business having damage shields of 1.5x their hp.

As for stamina builds, they have insane counters. If you do not run 30k health in full medium armour you will die to lava whip or concealed weapon. The only reason they currently seem tankier than they should is because of nirnhoned scaling being unintentionally strong. Once this nirnhoned "issue" is fixed, the stam builds will have to outplay these abilities through superior movement since most abilities that go through dodge are melee.

Meanwhile, damage shields avoid crits, prevent certain healing effects, and artificially increase HP using a stat that raises damage. There is no counterplay to damage shields other than to pray you get a lucky crit once their shields are down.

@Teargrants I'm handing this one off to you.

This one has me at a loss for words.

Xsorus

Teargrants wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

There are multiple abilities in this game that go through dodge, So Dodge users have to get some health...

It doesn't work that way for some Shield Users....So make Shields scale off health and be done with it.

Except dodge roll means you dodge most CC in the game, and the ones you can't, medium armor gives you more stam regenn and being a stam build gives you more base stam to CC break out.

Meanwhile, in order to use my 'OP shields' as a magicka build I still have to block, with my 9k stam.

Since your primary defense as a stam build already scales off stam, why shouldn't my primary defense as a mag build scale of mag? Instead of calling for nerfing all shields, why not call for all shields to scale off magicka? Purely rhetorical since I already know you just want to nerf sorcs.

Xsorus wrote: »

Do you know what I hit someone in Medium Armor for with Focused Aim crit? around 13k...

Do you know what I hit a Sorc for in Light armor with a Shield up? 8.2k

Do you know what you would hit someone in medium armor for with focused aim crit if they were blocking? Oh wait, can't crit on block! And no more than 1-3k.

Do you know what you would hit a sorc in light armor with shields for if they were blocking? Still 8.2k.

Except you can easily build enough stamina regen to break free from those cc moves as a magicka user since *gasp* you aren't using your stamina for damage. And the most dangerous cc in the game are the ones you specifically can't dodge.. Ya know the ones that shuelds help us live through because you are shielded during that cc time while dodge doesn't stop damage during that time. As for scaling all shields off magicka or stamina, why make more shield users overpowered to balance the fact that one is already overpowered.

also I gotta tell us I love the fact that you suggest blocking as a 2 handed stamina user to stop damage clearly knowing that it'll drain around 2k per hit on even minor things like disease proc that does 490 damage.. God help us if you block and they crushing shock light attack you, that's like an instant 10k stamina gone right there.

Block works for heavy armor builds.. It doesn't work for medium armor builds anymore, you'd know this if ya played something besides a sorc in your zerg

Xsorus

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

There are multiple abilities in this game that go through dodge, So Dodge users have to get some health...

It doesn't work that way for some Shield Users....So make Shields scale off health and be done with it.

Dodge rollers users use Medium Armor which has three times the armor and spell resist that Light Armor has. Higher passive defensive means less need for more robust active defenses.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

And Light armor users have shields, which can't be crit...(Plus the fact that you can overcap spell resist with light as well with nirn, leaving only physical resist, which can be vastly ignored simply because using a armor debuff + 2 handed mace esp if they're in medium armor) Just the fact that shields can't be crit gives them better mitigation when medium armor does with its armor/spell resist.

Do you know what I hit someone in Medium Armor for with Focused Aim crit? around 13k...

Do you know what I hit a Sorc for in Light armor with a Shield up? 8.2k

Guess what happens when you crit a sorc with Focused aim up and no shields? 18K+...

But what about when the shields are up? Well why are you bringing up a situation where a permaroller is getting hit by snipe. You can dodge roll every single high damage ability in the game. Damage shields however get 1-shotted and then some by the same abilities in many cases.

I swear you roll around these conversations like you do in game. Damage shields are a Light Armor users primary defense. Dodge roll is a medium armor users primary defense.

Damage shields absorb a finite amount of damage. The weakness is they can be burst fast than they can be cast.

Dodge rolls avoid an infinite amount of damage against the majority of attacks. The weakness is some abilities can't be avoided at all.

You realize that the difference between a sorc standing with no shields and a medium armor user standing with no shields is instant death for both of them right? There is a reason I go for people not running shields most of the time.. It's pretty much a guaranteed kill. The fact that we have had multiple threads pointing out how poweful shields are and you still think we just don't understand boggles my mind.

Lertil

Teargrants wrote: »

Lertil wrote: »

There is no counterplay to damage shields other than to pray you get a lucky crit once their shields are down.

Wrong. The way you out play damage shields is to attack their stamina and CC them into oblivion, or out dps the shield recast limit.

a single player cannot outdps shield recast, as well as stamina starve a sorc with 1.2k stamina regen.

If youre arguing that a sorc being needing to be killed by 3+ people SHOULD be a requirement you need to stop posting right now.

Xsorus

Lertil wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Lertil wrote: »

There is no counterplay to damage shields other than to pray you get a lucky crit once their shields are down.

Wrong. The way you out play damage shields is to attack their stamina and CC them into oblivion, or out dps the shield recast limit.

a single player cannot outdps shield recast, as well as stamina starve a sorc with 1.2k stamina regen.

If youre arguing that a sorc being needing to be killed by 3+ people SHOULD be a requirement you need to stop posting right now.

That's honestly what he believes.

Ezareth

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

There are multiple abilities in this game that go through dodge, So Dodge users have to get some health...

It doesn't work that way for some Shield Users....So make Shields scale off health and be done with it.

Dodge rollers users use Medium Armor which has three times the armor and spell resist that Light Armor has. Higher passive defensive means less need for more robust active defenses.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

And Light armor users have shields, which can't be crit...(Plus the fact that you can overcap spell resist with light as well with nirn, leaving only physical resist, which can be vastly ignored simply because using a armor debuff + 2 handed mace esp if they're in medium armor) Just the fact that shields can't be crit gives them better mitigation when medium armor does with its armor/spell resist.

Do you know what I hit someone in Medium Armor for with Focused Aim crit? around 13k...

Do you know what I hit a Sorc for in Light armor with a Shield up? 8.2k

Guess what happens when you crit a sorc with Focused aim up and no shields? 18K+...

But what about when the shields are up? Well why are you bringing up a situation where a permaroller is getting hit by snipe. You can dodge roll every single high damage ability in the game. Damage shields however get 1-shotted and then some by the same abilities in many cases.

I swear you roll around these conversations like you do in game. Damage shields are a Light Armor users primary defense. Dodge roll is a medium armor users primary defense.

Damage shields absorb a finite amount of damage. The weakness is they can be burst fast than they can be cast.

Dodge rolls avoid an infinite amount of damage against the majority of attacks. The weakness is some abilities can't be avoided at all.

You realize that the difference between a sorc standing with no shields and a medium armor user standing with no shields is instant death for both of them right? There is a reason I go for people not running shields most of the time.. It's pretty much a guaranteed kill. The fact that we have had multiple threads pointing out how poweful shields are and you still think we just don't understand boggles my mind.

You missed my point entirely. That's impressive.

Erondil

If every shields scale on hp :
1) You make stamina build even stronger because shields will be as viable for them as for magicka builds. As defence, a stamina player can already dodge roll a lot (endlessly if he manages well) + the best selfheal that is not a class heal scales on stamina : vigor. Atm healing ward heal is very strong but since it depends of the shield... it wont be for a magicka dps with heal scaled shield.
"Magicka builds would already have enough defence with better heals" wrong : some class hasnt really class flash heals (sorc and nb), and so the best heal they have access to is vigor.

2) You kill any kind of magicka high burst build : a magicka nb (for example) who stacks magicka as much as possible has 0 defence : no good heal (the best is from healingward but if it scales on health... ***) no good shields, or at least as good as for a stamina user and 0 armor/spell resist because he wears light armor. On the other hand, a stamina nb that stacks stamina as much as possible will have : endless rolldodge (or at least rolldodge for a very long time) which is almost invulnerability period, a very good heal (vigor), as good shields as a magicka nb (harness and healing ward) and a decent amount of armor/spell resist because he uses medium armor. A magicka user will have to stack health while a stamina one will be able to stack stamina.
Then, who will still play magicka pvp-dps?

Ezareth

Lertil wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Lertil wrote: »

There is no counterplay to damage shields other than to pray you get a lucky crit once their shields are down.

Wrong. The way you out play damage shields is to attack their stamina and CC them into oblivion, or out dps the shield recast limit.

a single player cannot outdps shield recast, as well as stamina starve a sorc with 1.2k stamina regen.

If youre arguing that a sorc being needing to be killed by 3+ people SHOULD be a requirement you need to stop posting right now.

A single player can't outdamage a well designed templar spamming heals either. It's a good thing this isn't a 1 v 1 games. Some players who devote a large portion of their stats, skills and champion points to *defensive* abilities shouldn't be easy to kill, especially in a 1 v 1.

More Sorcs aren't Teargrants and I so you don't get to combine our strengths and the other sorcs strengths into a player that doesn't exist.

Xsorus

Ezareth wrote: »

Lertil wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Lertil wrote: »

There is no counterplay to damage shields other than to pray you get a lucky crit once their shields are down.

Wrong. The way you out play damage shields is to attack their stamina and CC them into oblivion, or out dps the shield recast limit.

a single player cannot outdps shield recast, as well as stamina starve a sorc with 1.2k stamina regen.

If youre arguing that a sorc being needing to be killed by 3+ people SHOULD be a requirement you need to stop posting right now.

A single player can't outdamage a well designed templar spamming heals either. It's a good thing this isn't a 1 v 1 games. Some players who devote a large portion of their stats, skills and champion points to *defensive* abilities shouldn't be easy to kill, especially in a 1 v 1.

More Sorcs aren't Teargrants and I so you don't get to combine our strengths and the other sorcs strengths into a player that doesn't exist.

I don't know about that... I've killed quite a few templars spamming heals on my Nightblade and DK. Granted you don't run into a lot of them solo because they're mainly following a giant zerg.

Xsorus

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

There are multiple abilities in this game that go through dodge, So Dodge users have to get some health...

It doesn't work that way for some Shield Users....So make Shields scale off health and be done with it.

Dodge rollers users use Medium Armor which has three times the armor and spell resist that Light Armor has. Higher passive defensive means less need for more robust active defenses.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

And Light armor users have shields, which can't be crit...(Plus the fact that you can overcap spell resist with light as well with nirn, leaving only physical resist, which can be vastly ignored simply because using a armor debuff + 2 handed mace esp if they're in medium armor) Just the fact that shields can't be crit gives them better mitigation when medium armor does with its armor/spell resist.

Do you know what I hit someone in Medium Armor for with Focused Aim crit? around 13k...

Do you know what I hit a Sorc for in Light armor with a Shield up? 8.2k

Guess what happens when you crit a sorc with Focused aim up and no shields? 18K+...

But what about when the shields are up? Well why are you bringing up a situation where a permaroller is getting hit by snipe. You can dodge roll every single high damage ability in the game. Damage shields however get 1-shotted and then some by the same abilities in many cases.

I swear you roll around these conversations like you do in game. Damage shields are a Light Armor users primary defense. Dodge roll is a medium armor users primary defense.

Damage shields absorb a finite amount of damage. The weakness is they can be burst fast than they can be cast.

Dodge rolls avoid an infinite amount of damage against the majority of attacks. The weakness is some abilities can't be avoided at all.

You realize that the difference between a sorc standing with no shields and a medium armor user standing with no shields is instant death for both of them right? There is a reason I go for people not running shields most of the time.. It's pretty much a guaranteed kill. The fact that we have had multiple threads pointing out how poweful shields are and you still think we just don't understand boggles my mind.

You missed my point entirely. That's impressive.

You didn't have a valid point to begin with, So I didn't really miss it.

Ezareth

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Lertil wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Lertil wrote: »

There is no counterplay to damage shields other than to pray you get a lucky crit once their shields are down.

Wrong. The way you out play damage shields is to attack their stamina and CC them into oblivion, or out dps the shield recast limit.

a single player cannot outdps shield recast, as well as stamina starve a sorc with 1.2k stamina regen.

If youre arguing that a sorc being needing to be killed by 3+ people SHOULD be a requirement you need to stop posting right now.

A single player can't outdamage a well designed templar spamming heals either. It's a good thing this isn't a 1 v 1 games. Some players who devote a large portion of their stats, skills and champion points to *defensive* abilities shouldn't be easy to kill, especially in a 1 v 1.

More Sorcs aren't Teargrants and I so you don't get to combine our strengths and the other sorcs strengths into a player that doesn't exist.

I don't know about that... I've killed quite a few templars spamming heals on my Nightblade and DK. Granted you don't run into a lot of them solo because they're mainly following a giant zerg.

I've killed quite a few of them as well, that's why I said well designed. I ran into a Templar who survived 5 Sorcs attacking him for 5 minutes straight before we finally brought him down. I actually have video of the guy, total beast mode healing.

Point is, he made sacrifices to be survivable as hell, just like we did. Very few sorcs are running around with 1200+ Stamina regen like Teargrants and I, so running them out of stamina is a viable strategy.

Ezareth

Erondil wrote: »

If every shields scale on hp :
1) You make stamina build even stronger because shields will be as viable for them as for magicka builds. As defence, a stamina player can already dodge roll a lot (endlessly if he manages well) + the best selfheal that is not a class heal scales on stamina : vigor. Atm healing ward heal is very strong but since it depends of the shield... it wont be for a magicka dps with heal scaled shield.
"Magicka builds would already have enough defence with better heals" wrong : some class hasnt really class flash heals (sorc and nb), and so the best heal they have access to is vigor.

2) You kill any kind of magicka high burst build : a magicka nb (for example) who stacks magicka as much as possible has 0 defence : no good heal (the best is from healingward but if it scales on health... ***) no good shields, or at least as good as for a stamina user and 0 armor/spell resist because he wears light armor. On the other hand, a stamina nb that stacks stamina as much as possible will have : endless rolldodge (or at least rolldodge for a very long time) which is almost invulnerability period, a very good heal (vigor), as good shields as a magicka nb (harness and healing ward) and a decent amount of armor/spell resist because he uses medium armor. A magicka user will have to stack health while a stamina one will be able to stack stamina.
Then, who will still play magicka pvp-dps?

They don't care.

They want to CoD 1-shot people with their bows. These are the people we're arguing against.

Xsorus

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Lertil wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Lertil wrote: »

There is no counterplay to damage shields other than to pray you get a lucky crit once their shields are down.

Wrong. The way you out play damage shields is to attack their stamina and CC them into oblivion, or out dps the shield recast limit.

a single player cannot outdps shield recast, as well as stamina starve a sorc with 1.2k stamina regen.

If youre arguing that a sorc being needing to be killed by 3+ people SHOULD be a requirement you need to stop posting right now.

A single player can't outdamage a well designed templar spamming heals either. It's a good thing this isn't a 1 v 1 games. Some players who devote a large portion of their stats, skills and champion points to *defensive* abilities shouldn't be easy to kill, especially in a 1 v 1.

More Sorcs aren't Teargrants and I so you don't get to combine our strengths and the other sorcs strengths into a player that doesn't exist.

I don't know about that... I've killed quite a few templars spamming heals on my Nightblade and DK. Granted you don't run into a lot of them solo because they're mainly following a giant zerg.

I've killed quite a few of them as well, that's why I said well designed. I ran into a Templar who survived 5 Sorcs attacking him for 5 minutes straight before we finally brought him down. I actually have video of the guy, total beast mode healing.

Point is, he made sacrifices to be survivable as hell, just like we did. Very few sorcs are running around with 1200+ Stamina regen like Teargrants and I, so running them out of stamina is a viable strategy.

I'd actually like to see that video

Ezareth

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Lertil wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Lertil wrote: »

There is no counterplay to damage shields other than to pray you get a lucky crit once their shields are down.

Wrong. The way you out play damage shields is to attack their stamina and CC them into oblivion, or out dps the shield recast limit.

a single player cannot outdps shield recast, as well as stamina starve a sorc with 1.2k stamina regen.

If youre arguing that a sorc being needing to be killed by 3+ people SHOULD be a requirement you need to stop posting right now.

A single player can't outdamage a well designed templar spamming heals either. It's a good thing this isn't a 1 v 1 games. Some players who devote a large portion of their stats, skills and champion points to *defensive* abilities shouldn't be easy to kill, especially in a 1 v 1.

More Sorcs aren't Teargrants and I so you don't get to combine our strengths and the other sorcs strengths into a player that doesn't exist.

I don't know about that... I've killed quite a few templars spamming heals on my Nightblade and DK. Granted you don't run into a lot of them solo because they're mainly following a giant zerg.

I've killed quite a few of them as well, that's why I said well designed. I ran into a Templar who survived 5 Sorcs attacking him for 5 minutes straight before we finally brought him down. I actually have video of the guy, total beast mode healing.

Point is, he made sacrifices to be survivable as hell, just like we did. Very few sorcs are running around with 1200+ Stamina regen like Teargrants and I, so running them out of stamina is a viable strategy.

I'd actually like to see that video

You and my guild templar both. I'll eventually get around to uploading it and send you a private link if you'd like. I embarrassingly die to an oil pot (damn invisible oil!) above me in the middle of it if I recall. 3 of the other sorcs were DC, and was me and one other sorc and he's calmly standing in the middle of us all. I was fighting the guy all night and he was spamming eclipse and heals literally nonstop as only someone with unlimited resources(much like myself) can.

Xsorus

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Lertil wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Lertil wrote: »

There is no counterplay to damage shields other than to pray you get a lucky crit once their shields are down.

Wrong. The way you out play damage shields is to attack their stamina and CC them into oblivion, or out dps the shield recast limit.

a single player cannot outdps shield recast, as well as stamina starve a sorc with 1.2k stamina regen.

If youre arguing that a sorc being needing to be killed by 3+ people SHOULD be a requirement you need to stop posting right now.

A single player can't outdamage a well designed templar spamming heals either. It's a good thing this isn't a 1 v 1 games. Some players who devote a large portion of their stats, skills and champion points to *defensive* abilities shouldn't be easy to kill, especially in a 1 v 1.

More Sorcs aren't Teargrants and I so you don't get to combine our strengths and the other sorcs strengths into a player that doesn't exist.

I don't know about that... I've killed quite a few templars spamming heals on my Nightblade and DK. Granted you don't run into a lot of them solo because they're mainly following a giant zerg.

I've killed quite a few of them as well, that's why I said well designed. I ran into a Templar who survived 5 Sorcs attacking him for 5 minutes straight before we finally brought him down. I actually have video of the guy, total beast mode healing.

Point is, he made sacrifices to be survivable as hell, just like we did. Very few sorcs are running around with 1200+ Stamina regen like Teargrants and I, so running them out of stamina is a viable strategy.

I'd actually like to see that video

You and my guild templar both. I'll eventually get around to uploading it and send you a private link if you'd like. I embarrassingly die to an oil pot (damn invisible oil!) above me in the middle of it if I recall. 3 of the other sorcs were DC, and was me and one other sorc and he's calmly standing in the middle of us all. I was fighting the guy all night and he was spamming eclipse and heals literally nonstop as only someone with unlimited resources(much like myself) can.

Send me a link to the video, I do wanna see it.

k2blader

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

This may sound good in theory but will be total crap in reality, no offence.
Shield stacking is only effective 1v1, maybe 1v2 bad players. When 2 or more players do damage the shields are gone in no time. Making all shields scale off health will greatly boost stamina builds with decent a health pool, their main weakness is not having good shields but they have dodge roll to prevent getting hit. Giving them good shields will simply make them unkillable because they can dodge most attacks and absorb the damage of undodgeable attacks.

Also magicka builds who have little defense agianst physical attack and a relative small health pool get very squishy because they have small shields.

Result, magicka builds cant do any damage to stamina builds because they dodge and absorb all damage. Stamina builds will now 2-3 shot every magicka build because they have no defense at all.

So many good posts but wanted to quote yours as you summed it up perfectly.

Sometimes I wonder what people mean when they cry about "shield stacking."

If during an active engagement I am shield stacking in the way that I logically define it, I am doing minimal (if any) damage. My magicka pool can't handle stacking very well, so if I'm doing it it's because my focus is on survival and not much anything else. Like the above mentions, if a couple decent players are on me, especially if they're doing physical or bow damage, I splat rather quickly despite my attempts to shield stack. So I don't understand why this isn't acceptable to, seemingly, so many PvP forum posters. Why shouldn't a sorc be able to have some means for survival and fall back on a shield stack of hardened ward and healing ward when going defensive?

Snit

Lertil wrote: »

There is no counterplay to damage shields other than to pray you get a lucky crit once their shields are down.

As a sorc, I once thought there was no counterplay for Reflective Scales.

I watched a bunch of videos by better sorcs, and I learned how to handle a magicka DK with RS. It's not easy, but it's possible. It just requires more player skill, some gear tweaks and a different set of skills on the bar. I don't always run with those skills slotted, as I have other priorities in Cyrodiil. But I could.

Wreuntzylla

If you all are dead set on nerfing sorc shields, maybe approach it the way ZoS did with dodge rolling.

Add a .3sec cooldown between shields. Add a gear set without spell damage that only includes well-fitted armor pieces (no jewelry/weapon) with the 5 piece bonus eliminating the .3sec cooldown. Tag a handfull of specific skills to go through shields.

And for you sorc players who are trying to avoid a nerf, stop posting in these threads. A thread always dies when people are only in agreement. Seriously.

My daily advice only costs you 20 gold each, please send care of Wreunty.

Edit: fixed typo.

Avindra

woodsro wrote: »

Radiant Ward has the potential to be more powerful then Blazing Shield if you can tap a few targets, its also considerably cheaper. I think all sheilds should scale off either magic or stamina, whichever is higher. Scaling them off health i always thought was a bad idea, and why the Templar's did never made sense to me.

^This

Cody

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