ZoS, you have me beat....

Wreuntzylla

I'll pay 5500 crowns for *each* race respec.

No, wait, let me put all my cards on the table. I will pay $100 per race respec.

I don't think you understand the level of bitterness festering in the hearts of your diehard fans that just happened to pick a race destined to be rendered noncompetitive. Let the healing process begin between us. All you need to do is LET ME GIVE YOU MONEY.

I have two Argonian VR14's. A ~4500 stat difference is to big a competitive disadvantage. Seriously, there is nothing quite like watching a video and realizing that you can't use that gear because your primary stat pool will simply be too low and you have to, you know, use abilities....

pugyourself

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

I'll pay 5500 crowns for *each* race respec.

No, wait, let me put all my cards on the table. I will pay $100 per race respec.

I don't think you understand the level of bitterness festering in the hearts of your diehard fans that just happened to pick a race destined to be rendered noncompetitive. Let the healing process begin between us. All you need to do is LET ME GIVE YOU MONEY.

I have two Argonian VR14's. A ~4500 stat difference is to big a competitive disadvantage. Seriously, there is nothing quite like watching a video and realizing that you can't use that gear because your primary stat pool will simply be too low and you have to, you know, use abilities....

But, can't you swim faster?

Ley

While I hope to see this offered eventually in the crown store, in game or both; I don't think we're on the same page as far as cost.

Onebitsoul

I don't understand what the hell are you saying. Any clarification, people? Please?

Wreuntzylla

Ley wrote: »

While I hope to see this offered eventually in the crown store, in game or both; I don't think we're on the same page as far as cost.

I'm not suggesting a particular price. I'm just conveying that demand exists and that for at least some of us, the dissatisfaction is so high, we would pay unreasonable amounts of money to correct the situation. Obviously, to generate any real income, they would have to set a reasonable price.

ARGONIANS UNITE!!!! WE WON'T BE SLAVES ANYMORE!!!!! WE'LL SHOW THEM, WE'LL FILL TAMRIEL WITH IMPERIALS!!!!

Now I know why Imperials are the dominate race, they breed like bunnies.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

Lol don't give up argonians. You have sympathy from this orc. We can always race across orcs on land argonias in the sea

Onebitsoul

I went and checked what are the Imperial racial skills.

Oh my *** god. Time for me to go and make an Imperial, then.

Wreuntzylla

Onebitsoul wrote: »

I went and checked what are the Imperial racial skills.

Oh my *** god. Time for me to go and make an Imperial, then.

Imperials are always solid but best if you want to switch back and forth between magicka and stamina builds.

If you like only stamina builds, check out the redguard passives. If you like only magicka builds, you have several choices.

tinythinker

I wonder if race changes in the cash shop will be good or bad for races with weaker passives. Bad if they stay the same and lots of people switch, good if all the switching actually gets ZOS to fix the weak passives.

Jitterbug

Even better though would be to make argonian passives good

Eliteseraph

Seems like shady business practice to me. Nerf/change certain racial abilities then offer race change for a fee.

Yeah....no conflict of interest there.

Arunei

Argonians are supposed to heal fast and stuff; why don't we get some sort of HP regen passive at the VERY LEAST? Sure, one of our passives makes another player's healing more effective for us, and one gives a little extra HP, but it's not really enough to make us viable.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

You are not alone scaley brother. I, however, won't abandon my Argonian NB. I just want the values to our current passives boosted and for them to redesign Catalyst so it stacks again with Argonian potion passive. Can you imagine the outrage from DKs, Dunmers, and Altmers if ZOS would've redesigned elemental damage and totally negated decent synergies between the class and races?

Here is a list of threads documenting the plight of us Argonians:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162869/bug-nb-catalyst-passive

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/65730/any-news-on-argonians-racial-skill-buffs/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162238/i-cant-take-it-argonian-is-soooo-bad-compared-to-other-races

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/151415/1-6-changes-to-potions-and-related-passives-abilities-issues-and-possible-solutions

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154490/change-to-argonians-best-passive-still-not-in-the-notes#latest

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154004/zenimax-please-reconsider-argonian-racial-passives/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154048/how-come-racials-werent-given-a-pass-in-1-6-zos

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153268/my-case-for-race-change-option-in-1-6/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/152091/racial-disparity-with-full-list/p1

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150659/lets-talk-about-argonians-race-change-please/p1

driosketch

Here's what they do. Breton, Altmer, and Dunmer get the exact same magika passives, Redguard, Bosmer, and Nords the same for stamina, and the remaining four have the same whatever passives inbetween. All the lore just becomes flavor text. There, all three factions are balanced, and Imperial isn't better than what's in the regular game.

Toss race change in the store for 1000, and give all characters made before the change to passives goes live one free change. There issue solved.

Conversely, they just nerf racial passives into the ground so no one has anything to envy beyond the cosmetic. Toss race change in the store for 700.

Genomic

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

While I hope to see this offered eventually in the crown store, in game or both; I don't think we're on the same page as far as cost.

I'm not suggesting a particular price. I'm just conveying that demand exists and that for at least some of us, the dissatisfaction is so high, we would pay unreasonable amounts of money to correct the situation. Obviously, to generate any real income, they would have to set a reasonable price.

ARGONIANS UNITE!!!! WE WON'T BE SLAVES ANYMORE!!!!! WE'LL SHOW THEM, WE'LL FILL TAMRIEL WITH IMPERIALS!!!!

Now I know why Imperials are the dominate race, they breed like bunnies.

Bizarre. Your issue is with poor or broken racial passives and abilities. Fair enough. But instead of asking them to balance it, effectively you're offering to throw money at them for them not to fix the problem.

The marketing team's eyes must be lighting up like dollar signs. Fix an issue or have players pay you not to fix the issue. I wonder what choice they'll make?

Wreuntzylla

Genomic wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

While I hope to see this offered eventually in the crown store, in game or both; I don't think we're on the same page as far as cost.

I'm not suggesting a particular price. I'm just conveying that demand exists and that for at least some of us, the dissatisfaction is so high, we would pay unreasonable amounts of money to correct the situation. Obviously, to generate any real income, they would have to set a reasonable price.

ARGONIANS UNITE!!!! WE WON'T BE SLAVES ANYMORE!!!!! WE'LL SHOW THEM, WE'LL FILL TAMRIEL WITH IMPERIALS!!!!

Now I know why Imperials are the dominate race, they breed like bunnies.

Bizarre. Your issue is with poor or broken racial passives and abilities. Fair enough. But instead of asking them to balance it, effectively you're offering to throw money at them for them not to fix the problem.

The marketing team's eyes must be lighting up like dollar signs. Fix an issue or have players pay you not to fix the issue. I wonder what choice they'll make?

We have been asking them to fix it since 1.6 released. Scan up to the post with all the links....

Lionxoft

$5-$10 for a class or race change is acceptable.

Genomic

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

While I hope to see this offered eventually in the crown store, in game or both; I don't think we're on the same page as far as cost.

I'm not suggesting a particular price. I'm just conveying that demand exists and that for at least some of us, the dissatisfaction is so high, we would pay unreasonable amounts of money to correct the situation. Obviously, to generate any real income, they would have to set a reasonable price.

ARGONIANS UNITE!!!! WE WON'T BE SLAVES ANYMORE!!!!! WE'LL SHOW THEM, WE'LL FILL TAMRIEL WITH IMPERIALS!!!!

Now I know why Imperials are the dominate race, they breed like bunnies.

Bizarre. Your issue is with poor or broken racial passives and abilities. Fair enough. But instead of asking them to balance it, effectively you're offering to throw money at them for them not to fix the problem.

The marketing team's eyes must be lighting up like dollar signs. Fix an issue or have players pay you not to fix the issue. I wonder what choice they'll make?

We have been asking them to fix it since 1.6 released. Scan up to the post with all the links....

I know and agree, but don't then go ahead and offer to throw money at them for not doing their job! Sets a really bad precedence.

badmojo

What I don't understand, is why did you people make that race in the first place? Were you not aware they had passives? Did you really think that because the passives didn't make a huge difference at the time they weren't worth worrying about? It's kind of a huge part of making a character, it kind of defines them.

I honestly didn't care what my passives were when I made my characters, that's why I'm running a vr14 bosmer healer. I still don't care even though it makes more of a difference since 1.6, because my characters aren't just my vehicle for death and destruction, they're a role I step into. Magically changing my bosmer healer to argonian or something else that suits the healing role better wouldn't interest me in the slightest. If I wanted a more optimized healer, I would simply create a new character and develop his story and skills from the start. It's really not that much work to level up another character, but when you spend all your time complaining on the forums for a class change, I guess you don't really have time for that.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

Lol would never change off my last orc now (have 5) but really asking for a less pigeoned hole passive than swift shouldnt ruffle feathers. The speed used to be more useful when higher (esp in pvp). The charge damage applies to a whopping 3 skills one of which is bugged if your a templar orc. Been playing orc's since launch just would really enjoy them not to be treated like a 'beast' race.

Wreuntzylla

badmojo wrote: »

What I don't understand, is why did you people make that race in the first place? Were you not aware they had passives? Did you really think that because the passives didn't make a huge difference at the time they weren't worth worrying about? It's kind of a huge part of making a character, it kind of defines them.

I honestly didn't care what my passives were when I made my characters, that's why I'm running a vr14 bosmer healer. I still don't care even though it makes more of a difference since 1.6, because my characters aren't just my vehicle for death and destruction, they're a role I step into. Magically changing my bosmer healer to argonian or something else that suits the healing role better wouldn't interest me in the slightest. If I wanted a more optimized healer, I would simply create a new character and develop his story and skills from the start. It's really not that much work to level up another character, but when you spend all your time complaining on the forums for a class change, I guess you don't really have time for that.

Oops, read your post wrong. Of course we were aware. They took a passive that was arguably competitive and nerfed into arguably the worst passive of any race in 1.6.

badmojo

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

What I don't understand, is why did you people make that race in the first place? Were you not aware they had passives? Did you really think that because the passives didn't make a huge difference at the time they weren't worth worrying about? It's kind of a huge part of making a character, it kind of defines them.

I honestly didn't care what my passives were when I made my characters, that's why I'm running a vr14 bosmer healer. I still don't care even though it makes more of a difference since 1.6, because my characters aren't just my vehicle for death and destruction, they're a role I step into. Magically changing my bosmer healer to argonian or something else that suits the healing role better wouldn't interest me in the slightest. If I wanted a more optimized healer, I would simply create a new character and develop his story and skills from the start. It's really not that much work to level up another character, but when you spend all your time complaining on the forums for a class change, I guess you don't really have time for that.

Oops, read your post wrong. Of course we were aware. They took a passive that was arguably competitive and nerfed into arguably the worst passive of any race in 1.6.

Why not suggest a change to that particular passive? What passive is it? I've read countless threads pleading for race changes, but I've never once seen a thread asking for changes to the racial passives.

Fear not, they mentioned in the last ESO live that they want to do race changes. Sadly.

Wreuntzylla

badmojo wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

What I don't understand, is why did you people make that race in the first place? Were you not aware they had passives? Did you really think that because the passives didn't make a huge difference at the time they weren't worth worrying about? It's kind of a huge part of making a character, it kind of defines them.

I honestly didn't care what my passives were when I made my characters, that's why I'm running a vr14 bosmer healer. I still don't care even though it makes more of a difference since 1.6, because my characters aren't just my vehicle for death and destruction, they're a role I step into. Magically changing my bosmer healer to argonian or something else that suits the healing role better wouldn't interest me in the slightest. If I wanted a more optimized healer, I would simply create a new character and develop his story and skills from the start. It's really not that much work to level up another character, but when you spend all your time complaining on the forums for a class change, I guess you don't really have time for that.

Oops, read your post wrong. Of course we were aware. They took a passive that was arguably competitive and nerfed into arguably the worst passive of any race in 1.6.

Why not suggest a change to that particular passive? What passive is it? I've read countless threads pleading for race changes, but I've never once seen a thread asking for changes to the racial passives.

Fear not, they mentioned in the last ESO live that they want to do race changes. Sadly.

Check the links out, above, from @ThatNeonZebraAgain.

I agree it's sad. Except for the small minority of noncompetitive players, everyone else will be one of 3-4 races, with almost no Argonians. It will be a human-elf Tamriel. However, we have been pleading incessantly for a fix since 1.6. If they won't fix the issue, the only other feasible alternative is to argue for paid race changes.

I love my Argonian and I love my Senche tiger. What's funnier than a lizard riding on a cat??? However, I like competition more than aesthetics. Those hog-like creatures complain all the time, but at least they are fantastic for competitive flower picking in Hollow City...

@badmojo, I prefer you argue against race changes. The problem with the Argonian plight is everyone agrees. Threads don't get bumped without disagreement!

Jitterbug

Arunei wrote: »

Argonians are supposed to heal fast and stuff; why don't we get some sort of HP regen passive at the VERY LEAST? Sure, one of our passives makes another player's healing more effective for us, and one gives a little extra HP, but it's not really enough to make us viable.

Yeah I feel like a massive boost to health regen would be very fitting for Argonians.

Spangla

1 time race change should be free unless racials are balanced. Why should I pay for bad decisions?

AssaultLemming

My khajit magicka nb agrees.

Jaxsun

Onebitsoul wrote: »

I don't understand what the hell are you saying. Any clarification, people? Please?

The OP is uspset that the racial passives are unbalanced, which is something I can't stand either, and is asking them to allow us to change the race of our characters. Which they have already stated is being added to the crown store.

Junkogen

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

I'll pay 5500 crowns for *each* race respec.

No, wait, let me put all my cards on the table. I will pay $100 per race respec.

I don't think you understand the level of bitterness festering in the hearts of your diehard fans that just happened to pick a race destined to be rendered noncompetitive. Let the healing process begin between us. All you need to do is LET ME GIVE YOU MONEY.

I have two Argonian VR14's. A ~4500 stat difference is to big a competitive disadvantage. Seriously, there is nothing quite like watching a video and realizing that you can't use that gear because your primary stat pool will simply be too low and you have to, you know, use abilities....

I agree with you whole-heartedly. I'm so frustrated with Zenimax over this issue. I don't understand how they do "balancing." It seems like they just slapped some racial abilities together without concern for any game balance or fairness.

Junkogen

badmojo wrote: »

What I don't understand, is why did you people make that race in the first place? Were you not aware they had passives? Did you really think that because the passives didn't make a huge difference at the time they weren't worth worrying about? It's kind of a huge part of making a character, it kind of defines them.

I honestly didn't care what my passives were when I made my characters, that's why I'm running a vr14 bosmer healer. I still don't care even though it makes more of a difference since 1.6, because my characters aren't just my vehicle for death and destruction, they're a role I step into. Magically changing my bosmer healer to argonian or something else that suits the healing role better wouldn't interest me in the slightest. If I wanted a more optimized healer, I would simply create a new character and develop his story and skills from the start. It's really not that much work to level up another character, but when you spend all your time complaining on the forums for a class change, I guess you don't really have time for that.

I picked an Argonian nightblade for the potion and catalyst synergy, both of which have been completely redone. You may not see it as a legitimate gripe, but those of us who spent a lot of time playing a certain way only to have it completely ruined have a valid complaint.

At least as a Bosmer you've gotten some attention with that big bump to stamina regen. Argonians get blindsided by a nerf bat for no logical reason. Our racials have never been as strong as other races, but at least there was that potion and catalyst synergy. Now there's nothing. Just think if they changed Dragonknights damage from fire to frost. Dunmer players would be just as angry as Argonians are now.

Junkogen

Jitterbug wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Argonians are supposed to heal fast and stuff; why don't we get some sort of HP regen passive at the VERY LEAST? Sure, one of our passives makes another player's healing more effective for us, and one gives a little extra HP, but it's not really enough to make us viable.

Yeah I feel like a massive boost to health regen would be very fitting for Argonians.

We need a stat boost in general. Damage scales off of stamina and magicka. Argonians right now have a boost to neither. We are quite literally the weakest race in the game.

dodgehopper_ESO

On the topic of Argonians I really don't understand why they do not have the Stealthy attribute. As to the lack of a bonus to attributes, Khajiit fall prey to that problem as well. At the very least Argonians get a small (neglible) 3% bonus to health. Khajiit on the other hand don't. I think the Khajiit are a great race, but I do agree they could use a little improvement. Nord is likewise a pretty good race, but I do think they could stand to get a slight nudge in their max health as well. The Nords really only get tankiness in their attributes, but nothing in terms of actual damage output.