XP Potions are coming to the Crown store...

Lionxoft

Helluin wrote: »

These potions would be great for new players, returning players and after long breaks to avoid a power gap with active players, even if something different would be better (like a different diminishing return curve on Champion system or a cap).
This gap, that will be bigger in future, is the main concern PvP wise (+ performances in Cyrodiil) of all my guildies back to game with the new business model.
Because of this, I can understand them if PvP wise they prefer to stick to GW2, while waiting for another RvR game.

But for this, stored enlightenment shouldn't have just 12 days limit.

@Helluin A catch up system to affect end game progression should never be placed in the store. There are champion ranks and it's expected (by me lol) that once the median of players are above a certain threshold CR than all players below (x) CR will gain a type of enlightenment until they reach the catch up mark which could be anywhere between CR 1 and (x) CR. Putting something like this in the store as a catch up method is ultra greedy and will turn off a lot of new players. Especially since PvP doesn't have specialized seasonal PvP gear to allow catching up this could be a huge problem.

Slurg

Why would ZOS decouple XP from CP just for this potion? So people can spend money solely to increase their XP to gain veteran ranks, which are (last I heard) still going away eventually? And who will then throw an unholy fit about spending all their money on potions to level up in a system that the company was already planning to eliminate, while getting zero benefit in the champion system that remains?

I don't think so.

Seems XP boost potions would be a better fit for non-veteran leveling really.

Helluin

Lionxoft wrote: »

Helluin wrote: »

These potions would be great for new players, returning players and after long breaks to avoid a power gap with active players, even if something different would be better (like a different diminishing return curve on Champion system or a cap).
This gap, that will be bigger in future, is the main concern PvP wise (+ performances in Cyrodiil) of all my guildies back to game with the new business model.
Because of this, I can understand them if PvP wise they prefer to stick to GW2, while waiting for another RvR game.

But for this, stored enlightenment shouldn't have just 12 days limit.

@Helluin A catch up system to affect end game progression should never be placed in the store. There are champion ranks and it's expected (by me lol) that once the median of players are above a certain threshold CR than all players below (x) CR will gain a type of enlightenment until they reach the catch up mark which could be anywhere between CR 1 and (x) CR. Putting something like this in the store as a catch up method is ultra greedy and will turn off a lot of new players. Especially since PvP doesn't have specialized seasonal PvP gear to allow catching up this could be a huge problem.

I agree with everything, that's why I wrote "something different would be better".

I hope this is being discussed by devs because something similar, in the long run, will be surely a big issue.
It can't be blindly ignored.

hummice

I stand corrected from my early statement- everybody made a good point about XP directly affecting CP. But the reason i want these XP pots (total opinion, speaking for just me here) is to remain competitive while still working full time and going to school. If i could buy an a RL XP pot and skip the rest of school so i could grind out CP in ESO the hard way, id prob do it! But until RL devs make those, my window of time to play this game is smaller then most. If these pots let me catch up (and as of latest screen-shot, in two hour intervals WITH a two hour cool down) ill do it, and i know a lot of people will also. I dont believe its pay-to-win, but i can absolutely see the point of the arguments. I do know i cant ask the people in my guild to stop playing until i get a chance to log on- they're not that nice. So if this helps me play catch-up to further enjoy my gaming experience, awesome.

Bookwyrm

Lionxoft wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We don't have an ETA on them, @hummice, but we'll let everyone know when they're in the Crown Store. The details of how they work, who can use them, the duration, etc. are still being tweaked, too.

@Attorneyatlawl

I know you were pretty active in my thread regarding these boosters. It's a good sign to see this bit of language included.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that noticed that, I was just thinking the same thing.

c0rp

Erock25 wrote: »

Here is to hoping they don't affect CP gains!!!!!

Keep dreaming bud.

desciviib14_ESO

CP gains are the only reason to buy them, if you have even a few CP already you cant help but out lvl areas. Im trying to complete every quest in every area on one of my characters and by the end of an area Im 5-7 lvls ahead of things and often not getting any drops. If they want people to buy these things, they are going to have to affect CP otherwise there's really no incentive to buy them or use them.

Saturn

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Caza99 wrote: »

If ZoS make them affect CP gains, a lot of players will walk.

How can you increase XP gain without enhancing CP ?
Other than disassociating CP from XP
#canofworms

They are already disassociated, otherwise enlightenment would effect normal xp gain, which it does not. It would probably be quite straightforward and by making it only effect normal xp gain they would quite easily avoid the potions being called "Pay-to-win".

Ley

Just a bit of guesswork here..

It sounds to me like there's a chance that they may simply not allow vr14 players to use exp potions. It doesn't mean that the exp potions wouldn't count towards cp, just that you'd only be ably to use them to gain cp between lvls vr1 to vr14 and not past vr14. If you did want to use them for cp, once you reached vr14, you'd have to roll a new character, lvl it from lvl 1 to vr1 before you'd start gaining cp again.

If that was the case, would that calm down the people upset about p2w?

Or would you assume the worst, that people would just roll a new alt every week, lvl it to vr1 and abuse this assembly line like gameplay to gain cp at a slightly faster pace (I say slightly because lvling from 1 to vr1 would take time).

desciviib14_ESO

Ley wrote: »

Just a bit of guesswork here..

It sounds to me like there's a chance that they may simply not allow vr14 players to use exp potions. It doesn't mean that the exp potions wouldn't count towards cp, just that you'd only be ably to use them to gain cp between lvls vr1 to vr14 and not past vr14. If you did want to use them for cp, once you reached vr14, you'd have to roll a new character, lvl it from lvl 1 to vr1 before you'd start gaining cp again.

If that was the case, would that calm down the people upset about p2w?

Or would you assume the worst, that people would just roll a new alt every week, lvl it to vr1 and abuse this assembly line like gameplay to gain cp at a slightly faster pace (I say slightly because lvling from 1 to vr1 would take time).

If that were the case that could work cause you would have a natural limit by the number of your characters and so far we've not heard anything from ZOS on adding more slots and even if they did it would still be limited by the new number of chars available

Audigy

Ley wrote: »

Just a bit of guesswork here..

It sounds to me like there's a chance that they may simply not allow vr14 players to use exp potions. It doesn't mean that the exp potions wouldn't count towards cp, just that you'd only be ably to use them to gain cp between lvls vr1 to vr14 and not past vr14. If you did want to use them for cp, once you reached vr14, you'd have to roll a new character, lvl it from lvl 1 to vr1 before you'd start gaining cp again.

If that was the case, would that calm down the people upset about p2w?

Or would you assume the worst, that people would just roll a new alt every week, lvl it to vr1 and abuse this assembly line like gameplay to gain cp at a slightly faster pace (I say slightly because lvling from 1 to vr1 would take time).

But it would defeat the reason why XP potions are needed.

I don't think players want to park their main and then only play alts, so that this main character can stay competitive with the hardcores. Players that use the XP potions do so because their main character is in disadvantage towards others, either because of limited online time or simply due the fact that they didn't receive the headstart CP and / or were able to grind CP when they were bugged.

In my opinion the only compromise we could find is a daily limit so that players might only be able to buy 2 or 3 a day.

Darklord_Tiberius

Caza99 wrote: »

If ZoS make them affect CP gains, a lot of players will walk.

lol hardly. Maybe some of the people that whine to much on the forums, sure.

Ley

Audigy wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Just a bit of guesswork here..

It sounds to me like there's a chance that they may simply not allow vr14 players to use exp potions. It doesn't mean that the exp potions wouldn't count towards cp, just that you'd only be ably to use them to gain cp between lvls vr1 to vr14 and not past vr14. If you did want to use them for cp, once you reached vr14, you'd have to roll a new character, lvl it from lvl 1 to vr1 before you'd start gaining cp again.

If that was the case, would that calm down the people upset about p2w?

Or would you assume the worst, that people would just roll a new alt every week, lvl it to vr1 and abuse this assembly line like gameplay to gain cp at a slightly faster pace (I say slightly because lvling from 1 to vr1 would take time).

But it would defeat the reason why XP potions are needed.

I don't think players want to park their main and then only play alts, so that this main character can stay competitive with the hardcores. Players that use the XP potions do so because their main character is in disadvantage towards others, either because of limited online time or simply due the fact that they didn't receive the headstart CP and / or were able to grind CP when they were bugged.

In my opinion the only compromise we could find is a daily limit so that players might only be able to buy 2 or 3 a day.

Exp potions aren't technically needed, they're more of a luxury item and lvling alts or getting to vr14 faster is still a valid use of them.

I agree that limiting the amount of exp pots a player could use per day would also be effective in limiting the gap between players using them and player not using them.

I brought up my idea because I've seen a lot of players say that they'd be ok with exp pots that helped players reach vr14 faster but not ones that let you gain cp faster. The whole point of not allowing vr14 characters to use exp potions, would be to discourage cp farming with exp boosters, not to encourage alt-character-mass-production-cp-farming. I just brought up the alt character thing to point out that that would be the only way people could abuse the system to farm cp.

For the record, I don't have a problem with exp potions, regardless of how they're implemented. I've just seen enough players that do have a problem with them because of the potential cp gaps they'd create.

Attorneyatlawl

Audigy wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

Just a bit of guesswork here..

It sounds to me like there's a chance that they may simply not allow vr14 players to use exp potions. It doesn't mean that the exp potions wouldn't count towards cp, just that you'd only be ably to use them to gain cp between lvls vr1 to vr14 and not past vr14. If you did want to use them for cp, once you reached vr14, you'd have to roll a new character, lvl it from lvl 1 to vr1 before you'd start gaining cp again.

If that was the case, would that calm down the people upset about p2w?

Or would you assume the worst, that people would just roll a new alt every week, lvl it to vr1 and abuse this assembly line like gameplay to gain cp at a slightly faster pace (I say slightly because lvling from 1 to vr1 would take time).

But it would defeat the reason why XP potions are needed.

I don't think players want to park their main and then only play alts, so that this main character can stay competitive with the hardcores. Players that use the XP potions do so because their main character is in disadvantage towards others, either because of limited online time or simply due the fact that they didn't receive the headstart CP and / or were able to grind CP when they were bugged.

In my opinion the only compromise we could find is a daily limit so that players might only be able to buy 2 or 3 a day.

They aren't needed in the first place, but they certainly don't act as some kind of catchup mechanism like you're describing if they do affect champion gains. People already ahead of you would just use them too and you're at square one. You can't solve that other than an actual gameplay system change in the game itself .

Also the "Headstart" cp as you re calling them were earned many times over... they weren't free . 70 was the cap retroactively granted, but many people had enough xp that if it hadn't been they'd have been at a few hundred day 1 instead. The initial enlightenment bug you're talking about didn't affect many people, and zos did confirm back then no one had topped rank 150 at that time once it was fixed, so it's ultimately a small issue even with people who weren't suspended and rolled back in my opinion.

Casdha

I've got a different question regarding this, is this another broken promise?

I thought it was once stated somewhere that the store would have nothing that wasn't available in game.

Are there, or will there be, XP pots in game to find? (something along the lines of rare Motifs)

Sylvyr

Casdha wrote: »

I've got a different question regarding this, is this another broken promise?

I thought it was once stated somewhere that the store would have nothing that wasn't available in game.

Are there, or will there be, XP pots in game to find? (something along the lines of rare Motifs)

"I want to take a moment and talk about the philosophy we use to determine the types of items we put in the store—you've heard us refer to them as “customization and convenience" items before. Simply put, this means that an item in the Crown Store serves one of two purposes: it either provides a visual upgrade or distinction for your character, or it provides a way to save time at the expense of spending crowns. When it comes to this second category of items, we generally will make in-game variants of similar items available either as drops or as player-craftable items, as well."

From The Road Ahead - Feb

Notice the word "generally". This one word opens the door to ANYTHING. They can do whatever, sell whatever, and say no promise was made, or we feel this one item is ok to fall outside of the generally....

Anyhow,
My prediction:
XP Pots will include CP gains regardless of what you are saying now about how bad that would be. ZoS has clearly showed they are in a profit maximizing entity.

Pots with CP gain have potential to be a huge and long term money maker. You don't think it'll be included? Good luck with that.

Those that have CP will buy them to keep the edge, those that don't have a lot of CP will buy them to catch up. Welcome to the money infusion side of the grinder box.

If XP pots don't have CP gain involved with them, I'd be completely shocked and amazed.

Yinmaigao

Wow, this really is a double edged sword...

Personally, I hope that the XP potions do effect CP gains.

I got a late start, and all my friends are way ahead of me in terms of CPs. I know that I will never catch up to them, but in order to meet some of the "mandatory" passive gates to be able to play with them and not get carried, I feel this potion has potential.

Like multiple people have already stated, potentially putting a "max number of uses per day" might help control this. However, on the flip side, if you don't care about mounts/pets, what are you going to spend crowns on at VR14?

It is a sad reality that we must face in a F2P game that they have to have something to make money off of, and XP pots (or bank/inventory slots) would ALWAYS be in demand.

Just my 2 cents, thanks.

Flaminir

Contrary to what a lot of people are saying I really think they will sell a lot even if they do not affect CP.

Given the fact that we know that large amounts of CP are actually game breakingly overpowered at the minute (From the PTS testing) it would be crazy for ZoS to speed up this progress without having an idea on how they were going to cope with it... and as that would mean another game rebalance I can't think they would want this.

SO many people complaining about the grind to V14 (Even though its LOTS quicker than before) and levelling alts etc...... they will sell them by the truck load even without CP gain included.

I'd just make them NOT affect CP and ONLY affect levelling XP up to V14. Don't put any cooldown on them... let people chug them like candy whilst levelling if that's what they want. ZoS makes their money.... & it won't affect the max power of anybody at end game so not P2W. Everybody wins.

Attorneyatlawl

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Wow, this really is a double edged sword...

Personally, I hope that the XP potions do effect CP gains.

I got a late start, and all my friends are way ahead of me in terms of CPs. I know that I will never catch up to them, but in order to meet some of the "mandatory" passive gates to be able to play with them and not get carried, I feel this potion has potential.

Like multiple people have already stated, potentially putting a "max number of uses per day" might help control this. However, on the flip side, if you don't care about mounts/pets, what are you going to spend crowns on at VR14?

It is a sad reality that we must face in a F2P game that they have to have something to make money off of, and XP pots (or bank/inventory slots) would ALWAYS be in demand.

Just my 2 cents, thanks.

Fair enough viewpoint... I don't agree with it but I can see your reasoning . If they do affect champion gains, I'm hoping they have some kind of limiter to them like you mentioned. Companies indeed do need to make money, after all. The game data with an xp potion that had a possible uptime of always-on for a 50% boost wouldn't have been a good idea, but make something along the lines of a 100% boost usable a couple of times a week that lasts an hour or two and it would be a nicety, but not a necessity... people could use them to help catch up, and some high end players would buy them just for that extra bit, but they wouldn't really be able to get a massive advantage out of it compared to what they normally earn by playing a lot, so it'd be a boost you might grab to power grind some extra xp if you wanted to speed up a bit. Alternatively they could make them more along the lines of 10% and stackable with the subscription bonus 10%, with a 6-8 hour duration of being online and a 72 hour reuse timer . Then people who play a lot would have a small percentage of uptime compared to someone who plays less, where said person would have extra time left often after the cool down expired anyway. It can be fiddled with in a lot of ways numbers-wise, and I know I'm not exactly in the general majority on my viewpoint of RMT , but I'd stomach something more along those lines easily enough and most would think of it as a complete non issue while the pots would be selling well still and not hugely imbalancing.

mtwiggz

Really excited for these infamous XP potions.

As someone who works 60+ hours a week my playtime is very limited. I would love to role different classes but when it comes down to it we all know the grind is insane. My decision always come down to: play PvP with my VR14 or gain a few levels a week on a new character. With the XP potions I'm hoping I can do both.

I will agree that they should not effect CP gain.

Xabien

Casdha wrote: »

I've got a different question regarding this, is this another broken promise?

I thought it was once stated somewhere that the store would have nothing that wasn't available in game.

Are there, or will there be, XP pots in game to find? (something along the lines of rare Motifs)

They should be available in game and they should be common drops, like health and mana pots. IF they drop at a similar rate to the motifs, then I'd like to see each exp pot to be priced the same as motifs on the crown store

Cody

NCML wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Here is to hoping they don't affect CP gains!!!!!

Here's to hoping for a CP package of 3500 for $50 so we can just be done with it.

if that happens, the game dies.

there would be no balance at all.

you think balance is bad now? oh man you have no idea...

the CP system needs a lot of work before people start getting all 3600.

Yinmaigao

Flaminir wrote: »

SO many people complaining about the grind to V14 (Even though its LOTS quicker than before) and levelling alts etc...... they will sell them by the truck load even without CP gain included.

Don't mean to keep bringing this up, but the potential downside to this only effecting leveling, not CPs is that you will have a ton of new VR14s with few CPs (thus weaker than other VR14s) trying to PUG/Do content that is not balanced for them having lower-than-normal CPs.

Couple this with a lack of effective means to gain XP at max level, since you crushed all the content with your XP only potion, I think players will end up even further behind other VR14s eventually.

edit for spelling

Mumnoch

hummice wrote: »

When? Does anyone know when ZOS is releasing? The images floating around where data-mined but no info was attached. ZOS, can you possibly tell us when we can see these amazing pots available?

Bring in the P2W.


If you think exp pot's isn't, you're ignoring the obvious. /cough Champion points /cough

The_Death_Princess

The only purpose for xp gains is for champion gains too. If the xp only affected one side, it would go against the existing mechanics/company grind stance. This game has a long xp lineup, three zones worth. On the toon I am leveling now, she is doing the quests against grey mobs. Really people, when are you going to realize questing is always superior to grinding - especially when the company makes steps to limit grinds.

Ysne58

Casdha wrote: »

I've got a different question regarding this, is this another broken promise?

I thought it was once stated somewhere that the store would have nothing that wasn't available in game.

Are there, or will there be, XP pots in game to find? (something along the lines of rare Motifs)

Mara's pledge is not in game.

Ygaer

hummice wrote: »

I stand corrected from my early statement- everybody made a good point about XP directly affecting CP. But the reason i want these XP pots (total opinion, speaking for just me here) is to remain competitive while still working full time and going to school. If i could buy an a RL XP pot and skip the rest of school so i could grind out CP in ESO the hard way, id prob do it! But until RL devs make those, my window of time to play this game is smaller then most. If these pots let me catch up (and as of latest screen-shot, in two hour intervals WITH a two hour cool down) ill do it, and i know a lot of people will also. I dont believe its pay-to-win, but i can absolutely see the point of the arguments. I do know i cant ask the people in my guild to stop playing until i get a chance to log on- they're not that nice. So if this helps me play catch-up to further enjoy my gaming experience, awesome.

I think what you're not acknowledging is that a lot of the people who have a crap ton of CP that you're falling behind of will also be using this, and now they'll be getting ahead of you 50% faster while you're in class. That is the fear people have.

Jules

How can ANYONE justify these xp potions affecting CP?!?! Are you guys serious?? Everyone's always talking about not wanting serious gear advantages ect in the crown store bc it's P2W. That's 100% what CP gains from crown store potions are. It's even BETTER than BIS gear because CHAMPION POINTS DONT GO OUT OF STYLE. This is a P2W idea. There is no logical dispute to that.

Agreed with @Erock25 they should affect level gain to get to max rank and no more.

Anything more is a serious threat to the integrity of the game.

reften

Jules wrote: »

How can ANYONE justify these xp potions affecting CP?!?! Are you guys serious?? Everyone's always talking about not wanting serious gear advantages ect in the crown store bc it's P2W. That's 100% what CP gains from crown store potions are. It's even BETTER than BIS gear because CHAMPION POINTS DONT GO OUT OF STYLE. This is a P2W idea. There is no logical dispute to that.

Agreed with @Erock25 they should affect level gain to get to max rank and no more.

Anything more is a serious threat to the integrity of the game.

I completely agree . These xp potions are just like better equipment. Just instead of better buffs from better equipment you get better buffs from more CP's. Its a pay to win system.

Yinmaigao

While I can appreciate your point of view, I don't see how it is "just like better equipment".

You still have to get out there and do stuff to get the points... use a potion and just sit around or can't play your class well? Guess what? No points for you...

Additionally, what use would an XP potion serve outside of CPs? You already level 1-50 super fast, VR are painful but meh. And any "serious" gamer is going to play through all the story quests for the skill points, so if they are using an XP potion they would just be doing grey quests before too long.

If AVA is the concern, I once again state that giving someone who doesn't know what they are doing an "unfair advantage" is not likely to make a large impact if they can't play their class.

Also, how does some random person have X number of CPs impact your game play? Outside of the most extreme cases in AVA, the only impact it would have on you is to benefit you in group content. If you are afraid of grouping with someone who looks good on paper, but doesn't cut it... I suggest grouping with friends or guildmates or something then.

I see a lot of people getting upset simply because "I did it first, so it's not fair if someone can be as good as me". I don't by that answer. Simply being better than someone for no reason other than seniority is not a good policy in my opinion.

I understand my opinion is controversial and disliked by many, but I am sure there are others that share my point of view.