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Making ESO Challenging - Playing without magic

Xithian
Xithian
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There are a lot of people that feel that the vast majority of the content in ESO is just too easy. Smash-your-face-on-the-keyboard-to-kill-things easy. I'm looking to create a challenge for those people.

I've created a new alt with a new guild for the challenge, and thus far my only real rule is "No magic." Only weapon/armor/Fighters Guild skill lines. No enchanted equipment. Why "no magic" instead of just going naked? I feel that completely stripping armor only changes the numbers and thus the risk involved. For many builds it doesn't really change how you play. I chose to shift half of the penalty to skills and allow plain common armor. This effectively makes all characters doing the challenge classless. Everyone is playing the same game with the same build options, which can be important for a challenge.

I'm looking for input and ideas to further flesh the idea out. Should alchemy be allowed? Mundus stones? Champion points? Has anyone else done this, and how did it turn out?

Rules so far:
  1. The only skill lines you can use are weapon/armor, Fighters Guild, racial, ledgerdemain, and crafting lines.
  2. You may only use common (white) gear with no enchantments or traits.
  3. No staves.
  4. No Mundus stone effects.
  5. No champion points.
  6. Potions and food are fair game.

I'm still in the air on potions. Is it alright to allow them all? Should I limit it to 2-ingredient potions? Should I limit it to found potions? I think some potions are needed as it makes an acceptable way to heal that's on a cooldown. I'm also wondering if traits are strong enough to warrant exclusion.

If you're interested in the guild I've created for the challenge, you can find it here.

Edited by Xithian on April 15, 2015 5:42PM
  • Scheneighnay
    Scheneighnay
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    I like it. Might try it myself.

    And alchemy should be allowed; not exactly magic.
  • AzraelKrieg
    AzraelKrieg
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    Alchemy allowed but limited to regen potions and no dual or tri pots. Provisioning is ok because everyone has to eat. No mundus stones. No champ points. If crafted armour is allowed, no traits.
    Gold Dragons Guildmaster PC-NA

    CR1500+
    Kalthar Wolf-Brother – EP Templar - 50
    Maeli Valen - EP NB - 50
    Naps-During-Trials – EP Templar - 50
    Jorleif the Bear-King - EP DK - 50
    Ko'Shariba-do - EP Sorc - 50
    Azrael Krieg - EP NB – 50
    Uvithasa Telvanni – EP DK – 50
    More-Tail - EP Warden - 50
    Narile Galen - EP Sorc - 50
    Az the Bulwark of Skål - EP Warden - 50
    Rilasi Sedas - EP Warden - 50
    Rayna Andalen - EP Templar - 50
  • lolo_01b16_ESO
    lolo_01b16_ESO
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    Might be a nice thing to do. I never tried it, just did the opposite from time to time (no gear, only using class skills). But I'm pretty sure you will manage all solo content if you use 2-handed + bow.
    What abour alliance war skills? I can't see much magic in caltrops.
    How are you going to handle racial passives (especially Imperials)?
  • timidobserver
    timidobserver
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    How about no gear?
    V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
    V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
    V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
    V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
    V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)

  • Xithian
    Xithian
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    Alchemy allowed but limited to regen potions and no dual or tri pots. Provisioning is ok because everyone has to eat. No mundus stones. No champ points. If crafted armour is allowed, no traits.

    I was thinking about only allowing two ingredient potions. I'm not sure about traits, as they seem less about enchanting and more about craftsmanship. Champion points do seem right out, and I'm leaning against mundus stones. Perhaps just the Steed.

    How about no gear?

    That's been done quite a bit actually. I was going to jump on that bandwagon, but the "no magic" thing tickles my RP fancy. It also seems more interesting because you'll be making new builds, not just playing with the same old build with less resources.
  • bellanca6561n
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    I recall the RP community on the Europa Shard of Ultima Online did a lot with this concept. The only magic item allowed was night vision. And RP among that bunch, was lots and lots of PvP.

    Humans only. No elves.

    To this day in UO you can kill anyone in your guild. Thus groups like The Dutchy of Vesper would have these RP battles that were battles and hold them in Trammel - the PvE area of the game.

    What you're looking for is more a simulation than a fantasy game. War of the Roses took this to something of an extreme that didn't do well but it was not a AAA MMO.

    Lovers of Blackwater Blade demonstrate that a skill limited game has an appeal. A skill limited game with no magic, however, strikes me as too much another game though, however much the idea sounds appealing.
  • AzraelKrieg
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    If you're going to do traits how about traits that aren't magic based so only defending, sharpened, weighted, sturdy, reinforced and well-fitted
    Gold Dragons Guildmaster PC-NA

    CR1500+
    Kalthar Wolf-Brother – EP Templar - 50
    Maeli Valen - EP NB - 50
    Naps-During-Trials – EP Templar - 50
    Jorleif the Bear-King - EP DK - 50
    Ko'Shariba-do - EP Sorc - 50
    Azrael Krieg - EP NB – 50
    Uvithasa Telvanni – EP DK – 50
    More-Tail - EP Warden - 50
    Narile Galen - EP Sorc - 50
    Az the Bulwark of Skål - EP Warden - 50
    Rilasi Sedas - EP Warden - 50
    Rayna Andalen - EP Templar - 50
  • lihentian
    lihentian
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    How about no gear?

    i tried that already.. though unintended .. i have been playing for several days without repairing my armor....totally forget about it.... last night i thought "why do these monster hit so hard" "did i do something wrong"~~ so i went to the skill line and check all the passive.. it was till then i notice that i did not receive any armor bonus thus learn that all my armor are broken..

    p.s. would be so much better if we can see our armor been broken.. or maybe just make player look naked when everything is broken?
  • Xithian
    Xithian
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    What you're looking for is more a simulation than a fantasy game. War of the Roses took this to something of an extreme that didn't do well but it was not a AAA MMO.

    The difference is that this is still Elder Scrolls, and there are demons and magic everywhere. From the MMO standpoint my idea is just to make things less of a snore-fest outside of dungeons. From the RP standpoint my idea is to have people that aren't superheroes that still get things done in a world full of crazy mages and gods.

  • likewow777
    likewow777
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    Xithian wrote: »
    I've created a new alt with a new guild for the challenge, and thus far my only real rule is "No magic." Only weapon/armor/Fighters Guild skill lines. No enchanted equipment.

    Question: Are stamina abilities allowed? I use only stam on my DPS, literally no magicka, and the game is quite easy.
    "War doesn't build character, it reveals it."
  • Genomic
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    I only wear armour on my hands and feet, and use no health potions. My char has awesome warpaint across their body, so it fits nicely - barbarian warrior style.

    I find that playing like this (apart from low armour repair costs), the mob level is a fair match for my level. No faceroll, but not dying every 5 mins either. The named monsters are something of a challenge and I sometimes die. Puts some skill requirement back into the game, I feel, that lacked with my other fully armoured and health potion chugging chars, where I rarely felt any threat unless the mobs were several lvls above me.
  • Betahkiin
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    I play my recent levels as Templar (VR5) only with the line of skills one hand and shield and all the attribute points into Stamina.

    I do not use the rotation of weapons and skills.

    I do not use any type of buff.

    The only potions were using are health and stamina obtained in the game world.

    With the CP only add damage absorption, increased melee damage and reduced stamina cost in stealth.

    As equipment I use only what I got as a reward in world missions (unmodified enchantments).

    Basically, as an offensive strategy: 100% melee damage and as a defensive strategy: avoidance, mitigation and healing with potions.

    I can assure you that in this way is impossible to do dungeons (+) alone and Cadwells gold NPC (being VR5) become dangerous when brought together more than 3.
  • AzraelKrieg
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    likewow777 wrote: »
    Xithian wrote: »
    I've created a new alt with a new guild for the challenge, and thus far my only real rule is "No magic." Only weapon/armor/Fighters Guild skill lines. No enchanted equipment.

    Question: Are stamina abilities allowed? I use only stam on my DPS, literally no magicka, and the game is quite easy.

    Since he would have to use abilities, stamina abilities are allowed.
    Gold Dragons Guildmaster PC-NA

    CR1500+
    Kalthar Wolf-Brother – EP Templar - 50
    Maeli Valen - EP NB - 50
    Naps-During-Trials – EP Templar - 50
    Jorleif the Bear-King - EP DK - 50
    Ko'Shariba-do - EP Sorc - 50
    Azrael Krieg - EP NB – 50
    Uvithasa Telvanni – EP DK – 50
    More-Tail - EP Warden - 50
    Narile Galen - EP Sorc - 50
    Az the Bulwark of Skål - EP Warden - 50
    Rilasi Sedas - EP Warden - 50
    Rayna Andalen - EP Templar - 50
  • Necrelios
    Necrelios
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    Just for fun I actually tried this with my Nightblade after the last skill reset, but it was quite the challenge at times. It does help to have a lot of stamina, and to guzzle stamina regen drinks so you can dodge and roll out of the way. I found many of these challenges were made easier with a bow as well since this allows you to keep your distance from heavy hitting world bosses and such.
  • ArvenAldmeri
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    I have a bigger challenge... I played like that myself till lv40 with one of my char. - No abilities. Just weapon heavy and light attacks.
    Magicka sorcerer from start until the end. Always. Through the good times and the bad, even now when its probably saddest PvE dps it has ever been.
    Even as an owner of one radiant apex mounts I am against radiant apex mounts and anything thats not obtainable by direct purchase.
  • bellanca6561n
    bellanca6561n
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    Xithian wrote: »
    What you're looking for is more a simulation than a fantasy game. War of the Roses took this to something of an extreme that didn't do well but it was not a AAA MMO.

    The difference is that this is still Elder Scrolls, and there are demons and magic everywhere. From the MMO standpoint my idea is just to make things less of a snore-fest outside of dungeons. From the RP standpoint my idea is to have people that aren't superheroes that still get things done in a world full of crazy mages and gods.

    It's a first rate story premise certainly :p
  • Rune_Relic
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    I did this and soloed everything except group dungeons and craglorn upto v14.
    At this point I gave up... as in PVP you simply cant survive if you dont make full use of your magicka+stamina resources.
    Not using some kind of syphon or self heal is just guaranteed death.
    Any kind of survival depends on properly crafted gear built for purpose.
    No werewolf/vamp bonus.

    I was basically limiting myself to stamina with no food/drink and no potions [99%] of the time.
    It is impossible not to use potions against some bosses with no magicka to claw back health.
    Not without help anyway.

    Where do you draw the line on magicka though ?
    Fighters guild are essentially spells even if you dont use magicka for stats.

    I would say..
    a. craft your armour to survive as best you can.
    b. no potions/food/drink [this will make life incredibly hard]
    c. no targeted race bonus
    d. no champion points
    e. weapon swap + light/heavy attacks + bash/block/dodge/break only [old school]
    f. use any weapons more appropriate for the foe...but no staffs

    I think that would be impossible though without a gap closer/maker and a stun
    My main problem was DPS bosses (solved when I didnt try kill them too fast and focused on positioning at the edge of melee range)..but the mutually healing bosses are also a massive issue.

    Could I have survived without bash/stun with s/s.....no.
    Could i have survived without a gap closer/interrupt.....no.
    Could I have survived without really good self sustaining armour...no
    Could I survive without aoe damage.....possibly but only with bash/stun gap closer and good heavy attack regen....and perfect timing and positioning [sometime swarming requires an aoe stun to get some heavy regen in]

    Good to discuss what you are realistically gonna need at a minimum though.
    Carry on :d
    Edited by Rune_Relic on April 15, 2015 11:05AM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • Xithian
    Xithian
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    likewow777 wrote: »
    Xithian wrote: »
    I've created a new alt with a new guild for the challenge, and thus far my only real rule is "No magic." Only weapon/armor/Fighters Guild skill lines. No enchanted equipment.
    Question: Are stamina abilities allowed? I use only stam on my DPS, literally no magicka, and the game is quite easy.
    Xithian wrote: »
    Only weapon/armor/Fighters Guild skill lines.
    If the rule was just "stam only" then werewolves would be ok.

    Tried to reply last night but my ISP decided that a 6 hour downtime was just peachy.
    Edited by Xithian on April 15, 2015 4:55PM
  • Xithian
    Xithian
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    Betahkiin wrote: »
    The only potions were using are health and stamina obtained in the game world.
    I'm starting to think that I'll have to use this limitation on potions. I've always done alchemy and even if I make just basic health potions I know how easy it is for me to spit out a full stack of them. I'm still going to allow food though. Gotta make it useful sometime, eh?

    Betahkiin wrote: »
    As equipment I use only what I got as a reward in world missions (unmodified enchantments).
    I'm not going to allow *any* enchants on gear. Even going through the game with quest reward armor is a cakewalk.
    Edited by Xithian on April 15, 2015 5:30PM
  • Xithian
    Xithian
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    So far the biggest challenge has been finding plain white gear with no enchants or traits. I've had to pick up crafting. I may change it to either allow traits or allow the green vendor armor with no stats.
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